Big Brother watching you

[medo]

Hello,

We have a fine article (thank you Sysopt) about the vulnerability of our home PC trough the Internet and possible consequences.
I am not so much worried about hackers (I don't underestimate them), I am much more worried about a high level - well organised government or progovernment organisation who might organise, in the name of security (or something else) daily monitoring of our PC's and trough them us. I (we) know that some governments are doing that on a low level and it is not yet widespread but… …
My questions for the discussion are - can we really protect our privacy and are we going towards the Big Brother future and what we can do?
My personal opinion is - yes we are going toward the Big Brother future and we can't secure 100% our privacy if we want to use modern technology and I do not know what to do.


Medo

http://www.sysopt.com/forum/smile.gif

[CMonster]

as long as you are a gnat on a horses ***** you will not be bothered by Big Brother - he's after the horse...

Not that I can speak from any personal experience...but if they want ya they gotcha now...

[U-96]

Congratulations Medo, you have moved to a participant country in the Echelon project.
Just try that phrase in a search engine.
Then watch "Enemy of the State" or "1984"

You'll never turn your PC on or make a phone call again!

U-96

PS Here's a good starting point... http://www.disinfo.com/ci/dirty/ci_dirty_projectechelon.html

Wait a sec, someone at the door...
[This message has been edited by U-96 (edited 01-25-2000).]

[This message has been edited by U-96 (edited 01-25-2000).]

[Toadman]

Well thanks alot, U-96! Now I can't plead ignorance. http://www.sysopt.com/forum/wink.gif Kinda like the "real" reality in The Matrix.

[Wiz]

Echelon, wonderful computer system, dont you think? did you ever thing we weren't being watched? ahh... i'm moving to Canada! lol

[jad1097]

Well just so everyone knows the NSA does watch every electronic transaction here in the states. This is a fact.They have there supercomputers look for keyworks and phrases ie.. I am going to kill Clinton when he comes to town etc...

[This message has been edited by jad1097 (edited 01-25-2000).]

[bdog]

You messed up now Jad. They are going to be knocking on your door any moment.

[narayan]

On a more serious note, "Gig Brother" has cameras monitoring certain intersections in my small city. IT IS COMING!!!!!!! http://www.sysopt.com/forum/frown.gif http://www.sysopt.com/forum/frown.gif http://www.sysopt.com/forum/frown.gif http://www.sysopt.com/forum/frown.gif
-EDIT-
IT IS HERE!!!!

[This message has been edited by narayan (edited 01-25-2000).]

[jad1097]

We have 12 cameras or so in this city. Every major intersection has one. And yes they will be knocking on my door soon.
Big brother I was just useing that as an example. So please do not come here.
That must be why the Airborne express truck with my hard drive just drove by and kept going!

[This message has been edited by jad1097 (edited 01-25-2000).]

[Wiz]

What worries me more is that they do in secrecy. I doubt there have been many arrests from it. The question is: What are they waiting for?

[Toadman]

And you know they probably used this surveillance to catch terrorists but the method of evidence-gathering is not released to the public, even in the court transcripts, due to "National Security Reasons." They don't even need(or want)juries half the time to convict! The public still generally thinks it's still fingerprints and knocking on doors doing investigations.

[daveleau]

We just have one camera here but it is a test camera and they plan to add many more. They "say" it is to stop people from running red-lights. Soon we'll be just like Britain where there is a camera pointed at everyone, at every moment.
Dave

[yaroa]

Well, it bother me that I am losing some/most of my privacy, but I like to think that all of this is geared at catching the bad guys who, trust me, are doing their best not to be catched. I try to live my life by the rules so if "they" want to watch me, I dont have anything to hide.

[narayan]

yaroa, PLEASE don't tell me you feel that way. How free are we if we are being watched constantly? I live my life in the way you stated and I absolutely fear the government watching me. NOt because I'll get cought doing something, but because that is such an invasion. We should not need to prove our law-abidingness to anyone, ESPECIALLY the government. I am none of their business. http://www.sysopt.com/forum/wink.gif

[socalgal]

Oooh! Echelon! Have fun! http://www.sysopt.com/forum/wink.gif


Thanks for the new bookmark for my Security Folder, U-96.



[This message has been edited by socalgal (edited 01-25-2000).]

[jad1097]

Looks better in the other background.

[This message has been edited by jad1097 (edited 01-25-2000).]

[jad1097]

We are watching!

http://www.geocities.com/jad1097/images/eyeball.gif




[This message has been edited by jad1097 (edited 01-26-2000).]

[Dreamboat Annie]

You all seem to be forgetting one thing...even before computer technology was so wide spread, if some "intellegence" wanted to know what you were up to, they could still dig up every piece of information on you that YOU probably didn't even know! The capabilities have always been there, now it's just more convenient! The way I figure it, I have nothing to hide, so let them spy! Once they see how boring my life is, they'll move on!

[jad1097]

Some are in the open and some are very hard to see unless you know they are there. I found out where they all were on NYE cause they had them all showing on the local college cahannel after midnight.
I see no reason for them. One thing I do agree with is they put some up in the projects. They have cops sitting in an apt. watching them and when they see someone they don't know or who looks like they don't belong there they go check them out. I think it kind of helped to slow down gangs and drugs out in the open.

[CMonster]

My Russian grandmother sends her greeting!

Stadia Putnia!

[RBurton]

On a serous note, it's ALWAYS been a common tenent of law that you are not entitled to privacy in a public area. In other words, if you say or do something someplace where you MIGHT be seen or heard, you have no expectation of privacy. That's a pretty simple explaination, the case law could fill a book.

[jad1097]

STOP THAT HURTS !
If you go to my site and put your curser over the guitar you can then poke it all you want to.

[This message has been edited by jad1097 (edited 01-26-2000).]

[Toadman]

Good point, Rburton! When I want to sunbathe in my own backyard, there is the possibility that I might be watched by a nosy neighbor aircraft, satelite, etc. Does that mean that I should not expect privacy, though I am seeking it? At what point are we truly private? On the toilet? But if the blinds/curtains are open a crack, am I releasing my right to expect privacy? Am I now considered in a public place, because someone has an opportunity to spy on me if they so wish? Hmmm.....

(Pokes jad's eyeball repeatedly) http://www.sysopt.com/forum/wink.gif

[This message has been edited by Toadman (edited 01-26-2000).]

[RBurton]

Toadman, That's why I said it was the simple explaination. It's the details that fill the text books. For example. Sitting on the toilet in your own home, yes, you have an expectation of privacy. Sitting on a toilet in a public restroom....maybe yes, maybe no. That depends on what your doing. If your talking on a cell phone, no, you have to expect people to over-hear you. Writing on the wall, yes. Sunbathing in your backyard with a 6' privacy fence, you have an expectation. With a 6' chain link fence....no.

[nilknarf]

Nothing new, they've been doing this for quite some time now. It's just become more efficient.

I don't have anything to hide, by the same token I don't care for the invasion of privacy that this gives the governments of the world.

[Zinzan]

We have one camera here an' 12 camera's there. Man, I live in the North of England. They are at every light, on every motorway bridge in every town (and city) centre. You can't take a pi** without someone knowing about it

As for my big brother. I'm alright, I always kicked his *** whenever he invaded my privacy.

Zin

[Zinzan]

We have one camera here an' 12 camera's there. Man, I live in the North of England. They are at every light, on every motorway bridge in every town (and city) centre. You can't take a pi** without someone knowing about it

As for my big brother. I'm alright, I always kicked his *** whenever he invaded my privacy.

Zin

[OuTpaTienT]

Alright. That's it. Enough of this bad talk about our loving and caring government. I'm gonna get Eschelon's attention right now and tattle on you guys.

Yo Eschie: Rewson, SAFE, Waihopai, INFOSEC, ASPIC, MI6, Information Security, SAI, Information Warfare, IW, IS, Privacy, Information Terrorism, Terrorism
Defensive Information, Defense Information Warfare, Offensive Information, Offensive Information Warfare, The Artful Dodger, NAIA, SAPM, ASU,
ASTS, National Information Infrastructure, InfoSec, SAO, Reno, Compsec, JICS, Computer Terrorism, Firewalls, Secure Internet Connections, RSP, ISS,
JDF, Ermes, Passwords, NAAP, DefCon V, RSO, Hackers, Encryption, ASWS, CUN, CISU, CUSI, M.A.R.E., MARE, UFO, IFO, Pacini, Angela, Espionage,
USDOJ, NSA, CIA, S/Key, SSL, FBI, Secert Service, USSS, Defcon, Military, White House, Undercover, NCCS, Mayfly, PGP, SALDV, PEM, resta, RSA,
Perl-RSA, MSNBC, bet, AOL, AOL TOS, CIS, CBOT, AIMSX, STARLAN, 3B2, BITNET, SAMU, COSMOS, DATTA, Furbys, E911, FCIC, HTCIA, IACIS,
UT/RUS, JANET, ram, JICC, ReMOB, LEETAC, UTU, VNET, BRLO, SADCC, NSLEP, Daffy Duck, SACLANTCEN, FALN, 877, NAVELEXSYSSECENGCEN, BZ,
CANSLO, CBNRC, CIDA, JAVA, rsta, Active X, Compsec 97, RENS, LLC, DERA, JIC, rip, rb, Wu, RDI, Mavricks, BIOL, Meta-hackers, ^?, SADT, Steve Case,
Tools, RECCEX, Telex, Aldergrove, OTAN, monarchist, NMIC, NIOG, IDB, MID/KL, NADIS, NMI, SEIDM, BNC, CNCIS, STEEPLEBUSH, RG, BSS, DDIS,
mixmaster, BCCI, BRGE, Europol, SARL, Military Intelligence, JICA, Scully, recondo, Flame, Infowar, FRU, Bubba, Freeh, Archives, ISADC, CISSP, Sundevil,
jack, Investigation, JOTS, ISACA, NCSA, ASVC, spook words, RRF, 1071, Bugs Bunny, Verisign, Secure, ASIO, Lebed, ICE, NRO, Lexis-Nexis, NSCT, SCIF,
FLiR, JIC, bce, Lacrosse, Flashbangs, HRT, IRA, EODG, DIA, USCOI, CID, BOP, FINCEN, FLETC, NIJ, ACC, AFSPC, BMDO, site, SASSTIXS, NAVWAN,
NRL, RL, NAVWCWPNS, NSWC, USAFA, AHPCRC, ARPA, SARD, LABLINK, USACIL, SAPT, USCG, NRC, ~, O, NSA/CSS, CDC, DOE, SAAM, FMS, HPCC,
NTIS, SEL, USCODE, CISE, SIRC, CIM, ISN, DJC, LLNL, bemd, SGC, UNCPCJ, CFC, SABENA, DREO, CDA, SADRS, DRA, SHAPE, bird dog, SACLANT,
BECCA, DCJFTF, HALO, SC, TA SAS, Lander, GSM, T Branch, AST, SAMCOMM, HAHO, FKS, 868, GCHQ, DITSA, SORT, AMEMB, NSG, HIC, EDI, benelux,
SAS, SBS, SAW, UDT, EODC, GOE, DOE, SAMF, GEO, JRB, 3P-HV, Masuda, Forte, AT, GIGN, Exon Shell, radint, MB, CQB, TECS, CONUS, CTU, RCMP,
GRU, SASR, GSG-9, 22nd SAS, GEOS, EADA, SART, BBE, STEP, Echelon, Dictionary, MD2, MD4, MDA, diwn, 747, ASIC, 777, RDI, 767, MI5, 737, MI6,
757, Kh-11, EODN, SHS, ^X, Shayet-13, SADMS, Spetznaz, Recce, 707, CIO, NOCS, Halcon, NSS, Duress, RAID, Uziel, wojo, Psyops, SASCOM, grom,
NSIRL, D-11, DF, ZARK, SERT, VIP, ARC, S.E.T. Team, NSWG, MP5k, SATKA, DREC, DEVGRP, DSD, FDM, GRU, LRTS, SIGDEV, NACSI, MEU/SOC,PSAC,
PTT, RFI, ZL31, SIGDASYS, TDM. SUKLO, Schengen, SUSLO, TELINT, fake, TEXTA. ELF, LF, MF, Mafia, JASSM, CALCM, TLAM, Wipeout, GII, SIW,
MEII, C2W, Burns, Tomlinson, Ufologico Nazionale, Centro, CICAP, MIR, Belknap, Tac, rebels, BLU-97 A/B, 007, nowhere.ch, bronze, Rubin, Arnett, BLU,
SIGS, VHF, Recon, peapod, PA598D28, Spall, dort, 50MZ, 11Emc Choe, SATCOMA, UHF, The Hague, SHF, ASIO, SASP, WANK, Colonel, domestic disruption,
5ESS, smuggle, Z-200, 15kg, DUVDEVAN, RFX, nitrate, OIR, Pretoria, M-14, enigma, Bletchley Park, Clandestine, NSO, nkvd, argus, afsatcom, CQB, NVD,
Counter Terrorism Security, Enemy of the State, SARA, Rapid Reaction, JSOFC3IP, Corporate Security, OSAll, 192.47.242.7, Baldwin, Wilma, ie.org,
cospo.osis.gov, Police, Dateline, Tyrell, KMI, 1ee, Pod, 9705 Samford Road, 20755-6000, sniper, PPS, ASIS, ASLET, TSCM, Security Consulting, M-x spook,
Z-150T, Steak Knife, High Security, Security Evaluation, Electronic Surveillance, MI-17, ISR, NSAS, Counterterrorism, real, spies, IWO, eavesdropping,
debugging, CCSS, interception, COCOT, NACSI, rhost, rhosts, ASO, SETA, Amherst, Broadside, Capricorn, NAVCM, Gamma, Gorizont, Guppy, NSS, rita,
ISSO, submiss, ASDIC, .tc, 2EME REP, FID, 7NL SBS, tekka, captain, 226, .45, nonac, .li, Tony Poe, MJ-12, JASON, Society, Hmong, Majic, evil, zipgun, tax,
bootleg, warez, TRV, ERV, rednoise, mindwar, nailbomb, VLF, ULF, Paperclip, Chatter, MKULTRA, MKDELTA, Bluebird, MKNAOMI, White Yankee,
MKSEARCH, 355 ML, Adriatic, Goldman, Ionosphere, Mole, Keyhole, NABS, Kilderkin, Artichoke, Badger, Emerson, Tzvrif, SDIS, T2S2, STTC, DNR,
NADDIS, NFLIS, CFD, BLU-114/B, quarter, Cornflower, Daisy, Egret, Iris, JSOTF, Hollyhock, Jasmine, Juile, Vinnell, B.D.M., Sphinx, Stephanie, Reflection,
Spoke, Talent, Trump, FX, FXR, IMF, POCSAG, rusers, Covert Video, Intiso, r00t, lock picking, Beyond Hope, LASINT, csystems, .tm, passwd, 2600 Magazine,
JUWTF, Competitor, EO, Chan, Pathfinders, SEAL Team 3, JTF, Nash, ISSAA, B61-11, floss, Alouette, executive, Event Security, Mace, Cap-Stun, stakeout,
ninja, ASIS, ISA, EOD, Oscor, Tarawa, COSMOS-2224, COSTIND, hit word, hitword, Hitwords, Regli, VBS, Leuken-Baden, number key, Zimmerwald, DDPS,
GRS, AGT. AMME, ANDVT, Type I, Type II, VFCT, VGPL, WHCA, WSA, WSP, WWABNCP, ZNI1, FSK, FTS2000, GOSIP, GOTS, SACS STU-III, PRF, PMSP,
PCMT, I&A, JRSC, ITSDN, Keyer, KG-84C, KWT-46, KWR-46, KY-75, KYV-5, LHR, PARKHILL, LDMX, LEASAT, SNS, SVN, TACSAT, TRANSEC, DONCAF,
EAM, DSCS, DSNET1, DSNET2, DSNET3, ECCM, EIP, EKMS, EKMC, DDN, DDP, Merlin, NTT, SL-1, Rolm, TIE, Tie-fighter, ***, SLI, NTT, MSCJ, MIT, 69,
RIT, Time, MSEE, Cable & Wireless, CSE, SUW, J2, Embassy, ETA, Porno, Fax, finks, Fax encryption, white noise, Fernspah, MYK, GAFE, forcast, import,
rain, tiger, buzzer, N9, pink noise, CRA, M.P.R.I., top secret, Mossberg, 50BMG, Macintosh Security, freedom, Macintosh Internet Security, OC3, Macintosh
Firewalls, Unix Security, VIP Protection, SIG, sweep, Medco, TRD, TDR, Z, WTO, sweeping, SURSAT, 5926, TELINT, Audiotel, Harvard, 1080H, SWS,
Asset, Satellite imagery, force, NAIAG, Cypherpunks, NARF, 127, Coderpunks, TRW, remailers, replay, redheads, RX-7, explicit, FLAME, J-6, Pornstars, AVN,
Playboy, ISSSP, Anonymous, W, Sex, chaining, codes, Nuclear, 20, subversives, SLIP, toad, fish, data havens, unix, c, a, b, d, SUBACS, the, Elvis, quiche,
DES, 1*, N-ISDN, NLSP, OTAR, OTAT, OTCIXS, MISSI, MOSAIC, NAVCOMPARS, NCTS, NESP, MILSATCOM, AUTODIN, BLACKER, C3I, C4I, CMS, CMW,
CP, SBU, SCCN, SITOR, SHF/DOD, Finksburg MD, Link 16, LATA, NATIA, NATOA, sneakers, UXO, (), OC-12, counterintelligence, Shaldag, sport, NASA,
TWA, DT, gtegsc, nowhere, .ch, hope, emc, industrial espionage, SUPIR, PI, TSCI, spookwords, industrial intelligence, H.N.P., SUAEWICS, Juiliett Class
Submarine, Locks, qrss, loch, 64 Vauxhall Cross, Ingram Mac-10, wwics, sigvoice, ssa, E.O.D., Vx, SEMTEX, penrep, racal, OTP, OSS, Siemens, RPC, Met,
CIA-DST, INI, watchers, keebler, contacts, Blowpipe, BTM, CCS, GSA, Kilo Class, squib, primacord, RSP, Z7, Becker, Nerd, fangs, Austin, no|d, Comirex,
GPMG, Speakeasy, humint, GEODSS, SORO, M5, BROMURE, ANC, zone, SBI, DSS, S.A.I.C., Minox, Keyhole, SAR, Rand Corporation, Starr, Wackenhutt, EO,
burhop, Wackendude, mol, Shelton, 2E781, F-22, 2010, JCET, cocaine, Vale, IG, Kosovo, Dake, 36,800, GBC, Hillal, Pesec, Hindawi, GGL, NAICC, CTU, botux,
Virii, CCC, ISPE, CCSC, Scud, SecDef, Magdeyev, VOA, Kosiura, Small Pox, Tajik, +=, Blacklisted 411, TRDL, Internet Underground, BX, XS4ALL, wetsu,
muezzin, Retinal Fetish, WIR, Fetish, FCA, Yobie, forschung, emm, ANZUS, Reprieve, NZC-332, edition, cards, mania, 701, CTP, CATO, Phon-e, Chicago Posse,
NSDM, l0ck, beanpole, spook, keywords, QRR, PLA, TDYC, W3, CUD, CdC, Weekly World News, Zen, World Domination, Dead, GRU, M72750, Salsa, 7,
Blowfish, Gorelick, Glock, Ft. Meade, NSWT, *************, WISDIM, burned, Indigo, wire transfer, e-cash, Bubba the Love Sponge, Enforcers, e-gold,
Digicash, zip, SWAT, Ortega, PPP, NACSE, crypto-anarchy, ^X, AT&T, SGI, SUN, MCI, Blacknet, ISM, JCE, Middleman, KLM, Blackbird, NSV, GQ360, X400,
Texas, jihad, SDI, BRIGAND, Uzi, Fort Meade, *&, gchq.gov.uk, supercomputer, bullion, 3, NTTC, Blackmednet, :, Propaganda, ABC, Satellite phones, IWIS,
PDD, Planet-1, ISTA, rs9512c, Jiang Zemin, South Africa, Sergeyev, Montenegro, Toeffler, Rebollo, sorot, Yucca Mountain, FARC, Toth, Xu Yongyue, Bach,
Razor, AC, cryptanalysis, nuclear, 52 52 N - 03 03 W, Morgan, Canine, GEBA, INSCOM, MEMEX, Stanley, FBI, Panama, fissionable, Sears Tower, NORAD,
Delta Force, SEAL, virtual, WASS, WID, Dolch, secure shell, screws, Black-Ops, O/S, Area51, SABC, basement, ISWG, $@, data-haven, NSDD, black-bag,
rack, TEMPEST, Goodwin, rebels, ID, MD5, IDEA, garbage, market, beef, Stego, ISAF, unclassified, Sayeret Tzanhanim, PARASAR, Gripan, pirg, curly,
Taiwan, guest, utopia, NSG, orthodox, CCSQ, Alica, SHA, Global, gorilla, Bob, UNSCOM, Fukuyama, Manfurov, Kvashnin, Marx, Abdurahmon, snullen,
Pseudonyms, MITM, NARF, Gray Data, VLSI, mega, Leitrim, Yakima, NSES, Sugar Grove, WAS, Cowboy, Gist, 8182, Gatt, Platform, 1911, Geraldton, UKUSA,
veggie, XM, Parvus, NAVSVS, 3848, Morwenstow, Consul, Oratory, Pine Gap, Menwith, Mantis, DSD, BVD, 1984, blow out, BUDS, WQC, Flintlock, PABX,
Electron, Chicago Crust, e95, DDR&E, 3M, KEDO, iButton, R1, erco, Toffler, FAS, RHL, K3, Visa/BCC, SNT, Ceridian, STE, condor, CipherTAC-2000, Etacs,
Shipiro, ssor, piz, fritz, KY, 32, Edens, Kiwis, Kamumaruha, DODIG, Firefly, HRM, Albright, .SC, Bellcore, rail, csim, NMS, 2c, FIPS140-1, CAVE, E-Bomb,
CDMA, Fortezza, 355ml, ISSC, cybercash, NAWAS, government, NSY, hate, speedbump, joe, illuminati, BOSS, Kourou, Misawa, Morse, HF, xechelon.org,
P415, ladylove, filofax, Gulf, lamma, Unit 5707, Sayeret Mat'Kal, Unit 669, Sayeret Golani, Lanceros, Summercon, NSADS, president, ISFR, freedom, ISSO,
walburn, Defcon VI, DC6, Larson, P99, HERF pipe-bomb, 2.3 Oz., cocaine, $, imapct, Roswell, ESN, COS, E.T., credit card, b9, fraud, ST1, assasinate, virus,
ISCS, ISPR, .VA, anarchy, rogue, mailbomb, 888, Chelsea, 1997, Whitewater, MOD, York, plutonium, William Gates, clone, BATF, SGDN, Nike, WWSV, Atlas,
IWWSVCS, Delta, TWA, Kiwi, PGP 2.6.2., PGP 5.0i, PGP 5.1, siliconpimp, SASSTIXS, IWG, Lynch, 414, Face, Pixar, IRIDF, NSRB, eternity server, Skytel,
Yukon, Templeton, Johohonbu, LUK, Jackson, Cohiba, Soros, Standford, niche, ISEP, ISEC, 51, H&K, USP, ^, sardine, bank, EUB, USP, PCS, NRO, Red Cell,
NSOF, DC7, Glock 26, snuffle, Patel, package, ISI, INR, INS, GRU, RUOP, GSS, NSP, SRI, Ronco, Armani, BOSS, Chobetsu, FBIS, BND, SISDE, FSB, BfV,
IB, froglegs, JITEM, SADF, advise, TUSA, LITE, PKK, HoHoCon, SISMI, ISG, FIS, MSW, Spyderco, UOP, SSCI, NIMA, HAMASMOIS, SVR, SIN, advisors,
SAP, Monica, OAU, PFS, Aladdin, AG, chameleon man, Hutsul, CESID, Bess, rail gun, .375, Peering, CSC, Tangimoana Beach, Commecen, Vanuatu, Kwajalein,
LHI, DRM, GSGI, DST, MITI, JERTO, SDF, Koancho, Blenheim, Rivera, Kyudanki, varon, 310, 17, 312, NB, CBM, CTP, Sardine, SBIRS, jaws, SGDN, ADIU,
DEADBEEF, IDP, IDF, Halibut, SONANGOL, Flu, &, Loin, PGP 5.53, meta, Faber, SFPD, EG&G, ISEP, blackjack, Fox, Aum, AIEWS, AMW, RHL, Baranyi,
WORM, MP5K-SD, 1071, WINGS, cdi, VIA, DynCorp, UXO, Ti, WWSP, WID, osco, Mary, honor, Templar, THAAD, package, CISD, ISG, BIOLWPN, JRA, ISB,
ISDS, chosen, LBSD, van, schloss, secops, DCSS, DPSD, LIF, J-Star, PRIME, SURVIAC, telex, Analyzer, solo, embassy, Golf, B61-7, Maple, Tokyo, ERR, SBU,
Threat, JPL, Tess, SE, Alex, EPL, SPINTCOM, FOUO, ISS-ADP, Merv, Mexico, SUR, Gorel, blocks, SO13, Rojdykarna, RSOC, USS Banner, S511, 20755,
ytcracker, airframe, jya.com, Furby, PECSENC, football, Agfa, 3210, Crowell, moore, 510, OADR, Smith, toffee, FIS, N5P6, EuroFed, SP4, Walnut, shelter,
Crypto AG, [Hello to all my friends and fans in domestic surveillance]

________________________
(delete that is you want Socalgal. I just playin' http://www.sysopt.com/forum/smile.gif)

[narayan]

Walking down the street, minding your own business, knowing that someone is watching you........

[Barney]

Formaly known as RONALDvd#22

Talking out of experience:If you don't misbehave yourself,you will keep your privacy.
If you behave like I did you get banned.You will have to accept that.You agreed when you registered.

[chipbgt]

[This message has been edited by chipbgt (edited 01-28-2000).]

[malguru]

so take dope .smuggle drugs , eat at the 7,11 ,walk out in front of a bus! do you really think is BIG BROTHER? or something more....
where has the technology come from???
think about why out of hundreds of years why the thec on this olanes has advanced so much inthe last century
perhaps is a case of a little incident in roswell , and few visitors arrived.
does it not make sense that they are feeding us with technology to get us used to the fact that there are othere things out there besides bills,tax or even governments!
may be just maybe someone out there has frightened the powers that be that there NOT in control!!
perhaps big brother is really the daddy of them all!!

your imput on this matter may just save us all!!!!

POST YOUR REPLIES

s*** talk about independance day!

scarey!

[This message has been edited by socalgal (edited 01-28-2000).]

[Wiz]

i think it matters because a few times recently, everyone's favorite american president has tried to get WAY more power than he needs. example: He wanted a national police force, hmm... that seems awfully familiar to Hitler, who created the S.S. as a national police, and then took complete control over everything. We all know the results. History repeats itself, and it we are all happy little automatons, than we will see dicatators taking power.

[alien_from_io]

Yea, Right. Anybody wanna buy some beach front property on UrAnus? I've seen smoke and mirrors before,, WHEW, NOW I know the whole meaning of "Project DisInformation"

[jokostel]

big bro ain't watchin me do this........hehe http://www.sysopt.com/forum/smile.gif
cause #1 i think thats just **** really
if there are they are just abunch of little twerps that wear sweaters and sit around at their computers and drink decaf coffee in 13hr or whatever long shifts....
it just sounds insane that they would actually waste time on BS like this....
(pardon the lang please but big brother and ect **** is just really sad ....it just forced paranoia to make you think that the government is gonna get ya.... they treat us citizens like cattle

[jad1097]

It's already been done.
" He wanted a national police force"


You have been washed.
"perhaps is a case of a little incident in roswell , and few visitors arrived."

Too true.
WHEW, NOW I know the whole meaning of "Project DisInformation"

Some people just need to examine the intention of such matters. And have some comprehension of the nature of true reality and it will all be clear.

[OuTpaTienT]

alien, if you don't believe in the eschelon project then you're just a fool. It's been confirmed by many sources.

The latest one I heard with my own ears was a ex-CIA agent being interviewed on the radio. Naturally he would not confirm the project existed but said something along the lines that you could safely assume that our government is involved in such tatics.

[CMonster]

I do think that excessive surveilence is a scarry thing, but the criminal behavior of a few has made life difficult for the majority of us. Surveilence is like a telephone - it can be used for good or evil. I guess we never really realized how many jerks there were pi$$ing in coffee posts until the advent of the hidden camera... not to mention how many child abusing babysitters there are.

Also please let me just say this little out of place comment: for those who continue to wonder about the source of the explosive growth in technology, there is a very detailed history and step-by-step evolution of electronics (and other technology) that can be easily researched. Nothing extra-terrestrial about it! But if anything, it tends to indicate that human beings are relative new-commers on the sceene, and contrary to conventional ideas, have not been around for hundreds of thousands of years.

As touching Roswell: I keep trying to tell people that the Roswell ship was adrift for possibly millions of years - everyone was already dead. Inertia carried it here. Who knows what freak accident occured that knocked it on its way here - but the "message in a bottle" drifted in an infinite ocean of space before finally washing up here - I know because my ship landed about the same time..er ahhh ~~ have ai said too much...

$%$$#%$ black helicopters are back !



[This message has been edited by CMonster (edited 01-28-2000).]

[medo]

Hello,

I am sorry but I have to disagree with you. Criminal/antisocial behaviour was always used as an excuse to limit freedom of others and all that in the name of security and better society.
Most (if not all) of society/government throughout our history had a tendency to limit freedom. The balances of democratic societies are still on the side of freedom but for how long?
Because of personal security we are more and more restricted and ready to be restricted (because of our security) until one day the balance will tip forever onto the other side.


Medo


http://www.sysopt.com/forum/smile.gif

[Stan]

Even more worrying... they store a picture of you in a FBI db...

http://209.69.229.50/fbi/

Stan

[CMonster]

I do not se any disagreement, but the truth is in the use and balence:

I'm sure that you will agree that in the place of great freedom great abuses of freedom exist, and absolute freedom is anarchy - the rule of dog eat dog - the weak suffer. Therefore, every sociaty on earth has devoloped some form of government including rules for social conduct and enforcement of the same. But in order to enforce the rules the government needs some kind of teeth (sword)- not everyone likes this, certainly rule-breakers do not. Unfortunately the "teeth" give the governing bodies "power," and as we know "power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely."

Surveilence has always existed, and will always exist - but electronics has carried it to the next level, and surveilence is by nature proactive - is assumes a crime will be committed.

That is the world in which we live - unless you want to go back to "Little House on the Prarie" days.

But if you remove all the control rods this reactor will go critical - and you will melt down next time you go the the bank and find your account empty and your credit cards maxed out - because of someone else's freedom.

Humans cannot be trusted to do the right thing - history proves that.

A one-world government is coming - and you can say good-bye to cash as well. You will all welcome your new great leader and accept the PIN number he issues to you in order to be part of the great and prosperous worlld economic system.

[Barney]

Stan that site adress you gave is real fun!I saw a picture of myself when I was 3 months old.I was a real good looking monkey at that time!BTW:are all pictures on this site real good looking monkeys like mine?I didn't even know that even they have got my photo.
I feel like playing 'The Curse of Monkey Island'.

[medo]

Hello,

I agree with the first 2/3 of your document - there is no absolute freedom and the government had to take control/corrective freedom rules for the freedom.
I can't agree with your statement - Humans cannot be trusted to do the right thing, history proves that - no matter how hyperbolic it is. Who has done everything so far and who will if not humans. I am more worried about the silent majority who will by inertia accept whatever might happen and power will always dictate for their "sake" and their philosophy "my backyard - my kingdom until the backyard disappears. That tendency with consumer society philosophy might lead to the transfer of power from the parliament to a group of "the chosen".
The balance between freedom and dictature for most of us is so small and it might be overrun every moment if we really think that: "that can't happen to me because I am a loyal citizen".
Where is the solution? From my point of view it lays in proper education. I know it might sound like utopia but I do not see any other option. Anyway, I am not optimistic about democracy.
One world - government coming? Yes its coming, but not so soon because of so many differences between countries/nations/religions.

There was an old joke about difference between capitalism/democracy and communism - In democracy if you have money you will have power and in communism if you have power then you will have money.

Medo

http://www.sysopt.com/forum/smile.gif

[welsh wizard]

Nice one OuTpaTienT, for the next 5 years you'l have then trying to figure out the code of your posting and work out whay it really means, thats provided they don't pick you up, to find other ways http://www.sysopt.com/forum/wink.gif

We all know that, we will see total State monitoring of every thing, the more tech advances that happen the faster it will occure. http://www.sysopt.com/forum/frown.gif
WW

[narayan]

The day is coming when carrying more that $100 in cash will be illegal. They want ALL transactions to take place electronically, so all transactions can be traced or (more likely) monitored. This works fine to find a bad guy. But, I do not want to be followed as I travel, nor do I want my personal spending documented by the government. I read (somewhere, dont remember where, maybe "Fight the Fingerprint") that this may take place w/in the next 5 years. I do not find the time frame very likely, but nonetheless this is on the way, and dangerous to freedom.

[jad1097]

narayan,
I remember reading about that. I think the time frame was 2020,give or take ten years. I think the reasoning was to stop drug trafficing or something.

I do not have any credit cards cause I am anti-credit but I do use a Visa check card all the time. I have to have one or no cable modem!
Do you have one? If not you will one day.

[socalgal]

http://www.regardiespower.com/archives/nov_dec_99/feature1/spyware.html

Paranoia fuel. http://www.sysopt.com/forum/wink.gif


Ok, something hopefully useful. A friend uses and recommended this to me. I just downloaded it but haven't installed it - yet. From
http://www.hageltech.com/dumeter/index.htm


DU Meter can also come in very handy to monitor whether some dangerous unknown activity is occurring while you are online. How can you tell whether data is either uploading or downloading from your computer behind the scenes ... what happens if some unknown application has installed itself and is sending or receiving data without you knowing about it? ...



[This message has been edited by socalgal (edited 01-28-2000).]

[jad1097]

Thank socalgal. I used to have DU Meter.

[Vincent22]

Just prior to the wall coming down in Berlin, the E German Government was heavily involved in monitoring the everyday activities of its citizens. Over one third of the population was employed expressly to report on and monitor the other two thirds.The compilation of analog recorded data enacted upon every long distance call made to or from anywhere inside or outside E Germany alone filled several buildings. The absurdity of thier tactics and bizarre notions can best be illustrated by the aquisition, storage and analysis of human scent samples, obtained with or without permission or knowledge via an absorbent cloth, and cataloged into various categories that included "criminal, dissedent, suspicious", etc. The classification was determined by the reactions of "trained" dogs. Again the storage of "Physical data" and the financially inefficient methods by which it was obtained eventually bankrupted the Stazi and Nation.
But by God leave it to Amercian ingenuity to devise a method by which more relevant data can be obtained in the most cost effective manner possible. We as individuals are buying the surveilance equipment they are using against us, (our computers), and paying for the means of intrusion, (our internet connections), and with our tax dollars and apathy, by means of precedent, give permission to be violated.
With all the Super Computers computers they are using they might never run out of storage space or resources...unless...we decide to organize and overload thier systems by innocently including thier listed "keywords" in mass quantities by a simultaneous fashion in our everyday communications via email, postings, or telephone conversations. hmmmm just a thought.

[narayan]

Vince, that is one sick piece of work. Good job.
-edit
you're definately on their list now!

[This message has been edited by narayan (edited 01-29-2000).]

[Warped]

With new technology comes unprecedented risks to privacy and security. We as a society really do have to be careful how we develop and in what direction we steer our governments and other powerful organizations. These decisions are made by every individual and in theory together comprise the basis of how way these organizations act.

Sure I'm worried about the government invading our privacy, but what worrys me more is private industry. If the government can do it, a few years later private industry can do it, only ten times better. Think about this, anyone with the money, able to access anything about you, watch your every action, your every move.

I don't want to see a corperate republic, or George Orwell's 1984 to come true. Remember what democracy is supposed to stand for, freedom, and power to the people, not a militaristic, oppressive society.

My 2 Cents,
Zach

[Vincent22]

Man...some peoples kids!!!
After I opted out, later in the day and after I had downloaded a new firewall... and just dialing out without using IE...guess who was scanning my ports and trying to access my computer even though my browser WASN'T OPEN!!!!HERE'S the PROOF!!!
1 0000000000000 101ms 96ms 99ms TTL: 0
2 208.233.220.1 102ms 98ms 98ms TTL: 0 (No rDNS)
3 208.22.32.81 116ms 105ms 101ms TTL: 0 (No rDNS)
4 208.0.145.254 131ms 105ms 101ms TTL: 0 (No rDNS)
5 144.232.190.89 115ms 111ms 108ms TTL: 0 (sl-gw7-rly-1-1-1.sprintlink.net ok)
6 144.232.7.233 111ms 114ms 109ms TTL: 0 (No rDNS)
7 144.232.0.34 160ms 117ms 227ms TTL: 0 (sl-bb1-rly-4-0-0.sprintlink.net ok)
8 207.240.56.165 128ms 117ms 110ms TTL: 0 (h4-0.wdccolo-peer1.bbnplanet.net ok)
9 207.240.1.218 120ms 114ms 114ms TTL: 0 (p1-0-0.cvacolo-core2.bbnplanet.net ok)
10 207.240.7.147 122ms 112ms 115ms TTL: 0 (fa5-1-0.cvacolo-border1.bbnplanet.net ok)
11 204.198.128.3 124ms 112ms 122ms TTL: 0 (fa1-0.router02.cva-colo.bbnplanet.net ok)
12 128.11.60.95 127ms 117ms 118ms TTL: 53 (doubleclick40.cva-colo.bbnplanet.com ok)
I logged it did a traceroute and attached to their server and sent them and my ISP Administrator a copy of the log requesting an explanation.
I deleted my isp in this post for obvious reasons.
Whoa I am feelin it...shhhhhh who's there?

sincerely
Vincent

[U-96]

Outpatient, your list is admirable, but this is the way to get them thinking! http://www.sysopt.com/forum/smile.gif


‘Q®ÁMÑ"Gu“ñÒDãjì1rYõu´ƒÐP‡ôd/Ù`ùªŸ?Ș�PçG,™õÉ¡$¤f)CS?�,`W¿©¯F

~qI;÷°Ùûj±"Nj8Çë²Wvˆúv%%B”ÓŠ³‚_ÒÒ0üðß™cŽ6«.<ÓVžÊ�ÖdVLäú >ÔaÙàÚòtqé쪿$ T÷ëO3ih<œü

U-96

[socalgal]

jad - is there a reason why you no longer use DUMeter?

[jad1097]

socalgal
I just have no real use for it anymore.

[onepercent]

Follow this link to download Scramdisk, an excellent FREE encryption program which allows you to create and use virtual encrypted drives with your choice of some well known algorithms. Uncle Scams gonna have a rough time with this one! http://www.scramdisk.clara.net/

This site has some good privacy software as well: http://oak.oakland.edu/simtel.net/win95/security-pre.html

Those who willingly relinquish certain fundamental liberties in order to attain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety-Ben Franklin

[pickel]

Whose watching the trigger happy cops in L.A. and elsewhere. OutPatieNT you left one out. Back in the Sixties and it is still fitting in this case we called them PIGS. Men supposedly defending the rights of all citzens, taking the the law into their own hands.And getting away with it.That's what we need Echelon for..to expose ,what did that guy say...." boneheads and other bacteria"
cause that's what they are vermin in a blue suit. I think all law enforcement should get the polygraph and a psychological evaluation and weed out the infected indiviuals, take their guns and their power away from them before it's too late for some innocent bystander to become an innocent fatality.
What do you see when that patrol car passes you on the interstate or you see the cop walking the beat by the movie theater????
Friend or foe. Something to think about!!!!!

Stan: a reasonable likeness fur shure http://www.sysopt.com/forum/smile.gif




[This message has been edited by pickel (edited 02-14-2000).]