MCSE?

[golfcart]

a few weeks ago, i passed te a+ exam. i am now ready to take some microsoft exams. mainly what i want opinions on is:

would it be worth the money to take the win95 exam? or should i just skip it altogether and do 98 and nt?

I am currently unemployed, so this will only matter toward future employment. let me know what you think.

[Nathan]

Let me be the first to congratulate you on passing your A+.

I'll write more on the other later. I'm really busy at work at the moment.

[golfcart]

Thanks

[Nathan]

Well here's something to think about. If you live in the states, look in the newsgroups for computer jobs. There are almost always companies and consulting firms looking for A+ certified people. The pay ranges from $12.00 per hour to $20.00 per hour and up depending on where you live and the experience you have. If you can show proof of working in the computer field, like references, it'll look that much stronger for you. If you are interested I can post some firms that might be able to help you. I don't know what kind of experience you have, but the more the better. Be patient too! Don't expect top dollar either, especially if you are starting out for the first time. Learn to work hard and think of the customer first. The right attitude means a lot to companies. And learn to be patient with the users. They will do some dumb stuff. But always remember, it's job security. I always like to remind the user "Hey there ain't nothing that you can do to this PC that I can't fix one way or another!" Of course I might not be happy doing it either, but... (lol)

As to the MCSE, I would first get one of these A+ jobs and get some more experience on top of the certs that you have. Who knows, if you link up with a good computer consulting firm, they will have CBT's (computer based training) courses on their site. And seeing you work for them, you should have free access to them to study on your own when you have time 24/7. However, if you get lucky and a company sees that you have potential and hires you, then they might send you to school and pay for the classes, the certs along with paying you your normal salary as you learn.

I always had to work harder than most because I'm not as smart as most of the others here. But I spent a lot of time learning like so many of us have done in this, or any field for that matter. And let me tell you, it's hard and difficult at times. But if you really love doing this, I mean really love these boxes, then you can do it.

Now get the experience. Even if you have to volunteer your time at daycare centers, the ones that have PC's, private schools, etc. When you get some money, get two, three, or four PC's (used are fine and not all at the same time if you can't afford it) and learn networking. Set one up as an NT server and another one as a Novell server. Then learn to connect each PC to each server. Have NT 4.X, 2000, and 98 (rotate them if you have to). Learn to be creative. It looks good on the resume when you have 3 or 4 PC's at home and they are all networked, especially if you have all networked to a server. That shows you understand networking. And that means alot.

Last but not least, hang around great sites like this one and my site too (it's under my profile). Be prepared to sacifice by taking the time to read, learn, and ask questions. But don't burn yourself out either.

Sorry for the length, but I was just trying to provide my perspective on the situation.

[This message has been edited by Nathan (edited 01-18-2000).]

[BBA]

If you didn't already...read Nathans response again.

Now, as for Win95...skip it. Really, skip it!
Besides being the hardest of all the exams, it covers mostly outdated info you will never use in a network work place (gee...Novell client v2...in detail at that!)

Go straight for NT4 core. Thats the money job cert!

[golfcart]

i appreciate your opinion nathan. experience, or the lack of, is playing a huge role in my career search right now. i would be happy to look into any firms you know of that may help me on my way. If it helps any, i am located in MI. I would also like to compliment you on your page. shall be registering for the ubb shortly.

[Nathan]

Hi BBA!

The company I'm with now has 400 plus 95 B machines. I've rebuild some of them and they are stable. But they can be a headache. The problem is they can't switch to NT because of all the special apps that are based on the windows kernel and won't work on the NT kernel. Estimates to convert to NT is in the ball park of $10 million. And to make matters worst, the different departments can't agree on a single standard. So we are trying to support some 40 + different apps. And as you guessed, some programs overwrite the others so they don't work. And to make matters worse, some departments want to add even more programs. But I look at it this way, believe it or not, 95 B is more stable than 98 is. I know, I wouldn't have believed it myself if I hadn't seen it with my own eyes. Hey, that's why we get paid the bucks huh?

golfcart

Teksystems
http://www.teksystems.com

I'll try to get more later for you.

[SysOpt]

These might help:

http://www.measureup.com
http://www.ccprep.com
http://www.gocertify.com

[Nathan]

OH...one more thing. Don't ever think you are second rate because you don't know what other computer techs know. They were where you are right now at one point in their life. When these network guys start talking about all the protocols that they have to deal with everyday, I often wonder how do they keep it all straight. Well they have been doing this for many years too. But then they look at what I do and think the same thing about how I get most of the error messages that I get in 95/98 fixed. Be teachable and prepare yourself. Your time to shine WILL COME.

Remember, you will probably know more about the best you can.

So much for my sermon on the full size tower the program(s) or operating system than the user that you support does. So help them huh? I'm getting off now. Sorry.

[This message has been edited by Nathan (edited 01-18-2000).]

[golfcart]

a big thanks to all those who replied. this info helps alot http://www.sysopt.com/forum/smile.gif

[NavyDood_ F/A18_Mech]

A buddy of mine that I was stationed with in CA went to MCSE school after work. He got out of the Navy 2 years ago, and is now making real close to the 6 digit figure. http://www.sysopt.com/forum/smile.gif

Jim

[BBA]

Sounds like my company downsized and three years ago...they made the jump to NT4 as soon as it came out and still are irradicating incompatible apps!

Not bashing W95B, I used to swear by it myself, when others proclaimed Win3.x or Win95 original was soo much better...

But the Win95 test itself though... It is the most illogical test of all! I just don't like it, and no one I know who actually passed it liked it either...the general consensus of those I know says that it was a waste of effort.

The A+, on the other hand...go for it, along with NT4 ( BTW: Win95 is no longer a part of MCSE certs, and next year, NT4 drops off that list also )

[golfcart]

i will be taking the 98 test first, as i have been preparing. will most likely take nt4 soon after. i still see the 95 test offered at 2test.com but their site may not be updated. i have decided not to take the 95 wether it is offered or not.

[Nathan]

NavyDood_ F/A18_Mech

Yea. Some people learn really good that way. About how much did that schooling cost? I thought I was told by one school that it would cost some $20,000+ to complete the course. Seems to me they had a non class room course for around $8,000. But I really can't recall the numbers either.

You bring up a good point here. I'd like to know how many here have their MCSE and are making big money 2 years after graduating without having hardly any computer tech experience before getting it.

BBA!

Small world isn't it? That's just human natural I guess. Anyway, wait till 2000 Pro is released. We are already having problems with the 2000 suites. Did you see the patches for Word Perfect 2000? 3 patches that total about 110 MB. Yes 110 MB. I think the whole suite install is around 300 MB or so. Can you imagine downloading that on a modem? So I'm waiting on MS suite and how big those patches are going to be. This is really starting to paint an insane picture. And it's going to get uglier too.

[This message has been edited by Nathan (edited 01-18-2000).]

[soulburner]

I wanted to say thanks to everyone who posted replies it has really helped me. I am also A+ certified but have not found a computer related job. I am in the Telecommunication industry testing Sonet equipment but I am really not sure what I could do with just A+.
I want to get MCSE but I feel I need just a little more hands on than a 3 week crash course.

[Nathan]

Well you know what to do. Get some used PC's and build your own network. Many companies have both Novell and Nt servers. BTW, you can get a new server for around $1,300. Of course this costs money, but so does the education. Once you have built it in your house, then you'll understand better what all is involved.

Once it's up and working, you stand back, look at it, smile, shake yourhead, and say wow, I did it!!!

Good Luck!

[This message has been edited by Nathan (edited 01-18-2000).]

[new2]

Experience is always helpful. I took a crash course, was also supporting enterprise software in an NT environment. The NT Server test was not so bad (passed), however the process was a nightmare. Make sure you know the Number and title of the exam you are taking. I guess a lot of people do networking essentials first. So even though I signed up for NT server, when I arrived at the local community college (1/2 hour early), they said I could go in early. The test that was sent was the wrong one! (networking essentials). It took 3 more times at 20 minutes a piece for them to send the right test. I had only 45 minutes to complete it. I was so mad, that I was determined not to have to come back,especially after studying so long. Just double check when you sign in.

[golfcart]

?? for those who have done a+ and mcse. are they all in the same format/style?

[BC]

Do you think in a while that the MCSE job market will get saturated and thus reducing the # of jobs avalible in the futre? I was going ahead and tking the MCSE after completing the A+ and CNA and not being able to find anyhting that was all that good as far as a job goes.

[This message has been edited by BC (edited 01-21-2000).]

[Kenny Graves]

Well I am consulting in a big fortune 500 company in Times Square. I started out doing rollouts then worked my way up to Pc Tech, Network Tech type things. Alot of the stuff I have done in the work place hasn't been too hard. I make pretty good money now. I have about 2 years experience andno certs I make 60k at 25, I don't think that's too bad for not having certs. I know I will have to get them to break the 6 digit salary zone and get tha big salary. This is just something to go by. On my 1st contract I made 17.18 and this was down south so the money is out there if you know your stuff and know know to talk. Don't let these consulting firms give you just any kind of salary cause they will. There is alot of work out there so if your not happy look else were. If your consulting it's not bonucing from job to job. One other thing if your married I don't know if consulting if for you, if you have alot of bills and all. I say this because alot of contract range from 2 eeks to like 6 months average, then when it's over your out of work for like 2 to 4 weeks. I got luckily and got onto a contract w

that is indenfite. These are rare from what seen. Oh How is Teksystems Nathan. I have had VERY bad experiences with them. They are either trying to low ball you in salary or they come with bull****. Like one time they called me saying they had a 6 month contract we agree on salary(which wasn't to high to being with) then they call back and say oh we're sorry it's 5 weeks. They were going to send me to school in Atlanta but I would have been under contract with them for 6 months. They pay their A+ guys around 16/hour (this was in South Carliona) and their MCP's around 18. I was like WHAT? I was making more that both withoutcerts already so I declined then I get bad to New York and it's the same salaries without any adjustment for cost of living. I don't like Teksystems at all on how they do bussiness. They charge their clients like 40/ hour at least and they can only pay you 16 that's bs IMO. Anyway sorry so long had to get that off my chest.
Please respond with your stories.

Kenny

[Nathan]

Hi BC!

You have a point there. In some areas, techs aren't working right now. That's why I suggested before instead of the full MCSE route, take some of the MCP courses and do some Novell like Netware 4.X or 5 and Groupwise. 5 has some interesting upgrades to it. When you have more exposure to different things, you become more marketable. Henceforth the reasoning behind getting some used computers and learning to install and connect them together. Don't ever underestimate having experience and learning to market yourself too.

This can be tough business to get into. You may have to move too. But once you are in and you really start to learn about why the business envirnoment is so much different than the standalone market is, you'll understand why they don't want to hire just anyone (so to speak). Some people on the other hand are at the right place at the right time.

Kenny!

I'm not having any problems with them. They offer schooling for the MCP to MCSE. They don't charge you for the class room time either, just for the test & materials (which I don't like). Those classroom courses are expensive. So I can understand why they want a 6 month committment from you after spending thousands of dollars on you. But I'm not married to one company either. If people check the newsgroups, there is usually work going on somewhere. Keep in mind that for some people, companies like them are about the only option they might have. So if they gain some experience in the business world, so much the better. It'll look good on the resume and stand out some at the interview(s). One comment you made here that people may have overlooked is how you got to where you are at now. To really advance, you have to know networking, even just the basics.

Well 60K in New York City is about the same as around 40K or less away from there, right?

[Kenny Graves]

I agree I had to start doing rollouts but now I have my hands in UNIX wghich is BIG in investment banking so I am enjoying myself. YOu just can't start being a Systems ADmin without having experience elsewhere it just doesn't happen like that. Oh 60k up here is like 40 down there easily. One good thing about consulting you get to work with alot of different environments and technologies so you get to see alot of different ways companies handle things.

[Groo]

Here's what you should have:

NT Server 4.0 ***
NT Workstation 4.0 ***
TCP/IP ***
Enterprise ***
Exchange 5.5 **
Win 98
SQL 7.0 **
Proxy 2.0 **
IIS 4.0 **

The ones with 3 stars are core. 2 stars are electives. Win98 can be in place of NT Workstation 4.0.

I really recommend SQL. I've seen hundreds of jobs for database administration with SQL.

After you get those, a simple one exam will update your MCSE to 2000. There's only a few courses to take for current MCSE's and the resources for the 4.0 track are unlimited.

By the way, Windows 95 exam was a joke.

certs I have:
MCSE, MCP+I, MCT, CNA, A+

-Groo


[This message has been edited by Groo (edited 01-22-2000).]

[Nathan]

My hats off to you Groo. That's impressive. What's that MCP+1?