John Rocker

[narayan]

I want to know what y'all think about the John Rocker fiasco. John Rocker said some things that could be read as 'racist' in a Sports Illustrated interview, and now MLB wants to give him a psychological evaluation for his comments.

[chipbgt]

It wont change a thing. You cant change hwo someone feels about something like that.

Having said that.........

Who would wanna ride on a train like the one he described????

[jad1097]

What did he say? And who is he?

[Pat Kennedy]

Probably hit his head a bit too hard when he slammed his new Vette into the semi <g>.

Pat

[chipbgt]

Jad, go here:
http://espn.go.com/mlb/news/2000/0107/275851.html

[Serge]

Living in NYC, I can safely say it's the democratic capital of U.S. (and the world). I realize that this guy is coming from an all-white southern neighbourhood. If he can't stand anyone non-white let him not play on teams or against teams that are not 100% non-white.
I do not beleive his somehow mentally challanged (he sure looks very dumb though), but do beleive that he's just a racist. Now we can't "ban" private hate, but when you are a public figure, and being a pitcher for one of mlb teams he is, we simply can't allow this bs to go on. The sad part is I don't beleive MLB is trying to stop the hate speech because of their "democratic" ideals, but simply because according to incoming Census2000 results more then 10% of total U.S. population are people not born in U.S. (immigrants). Now that's a very large and growing pool of possible baseball-related profits and they don't want to turn them off... too much.

I'm not a big baseball fan but do cheer for Yankees and when they'll have yet another chance to kick Brave's *** I'll be there to cheer them on and to boo Rocker.

[brockway]

off his...

[jad1097]

Ok,the guy is just a dumbass! But he does have the right to express his opinons right or wrong.SO he called some guy a fat monkey ,big deal. I have been called far worst than that.

[stylin19]

Since when are first amendment rights not allowed, if one is a member of a MLB team?
since when does excersizing 1st amendment rights require a psychological evaluation?

I don't agree with Rocker, but i agree with his right to say it.

I think he should push back on a first amendment issue.

[Serge]

MLB just wants to say he's "crazy" when we can all see that Rocker is simply an ingnorant racist. No one is trying to deny his 1st Amd. rights, but other people the same right too.

[Zotzmein]

Mr. Rocker will find the indelible stain of his words haunt him to his dying days; better him to speak and feel such punishment, than the evil we would perpetuate if we attempted to silence him before he spoke.

Even freedom has its pain and discomfort.

Regards to All,

Zotz Mein

[Dave_H]

WOW
Very well put Zotzmein http://www.sysopt.com/forum/smile.gif

[greencelery]

MLB baseball does not have the same rules as the constitution. No one is denying him his right to free speech. The Atlanta Braves and Major League Baseball are the one questioning John Rocker's statements. What would your employer do if you came into work and spouted off nasty discriminating comments? I know exactly what they would do! They would ask you to get your box and load up your personals. I am an Atlanta Braves fan and can understand why he has animosity towards the fans but his retaliatory comments should have been chosen better. He could have said something like this: "The New York fans have smelly feet and hair grows on their teeth." With all that said I did buy a green New York Yankees New Era hat today. The Yankees ballclub is awesome. But I still root for the Braves. Thanks alot Rocker now we need another closer!

[This message has been edited by greencelery (edited 01-15-2000).]

[chipbgt]

Da Braves will be back and be stronger without or without Rocker.

Andres, Javey, The new short stop Rafeal, Andruw, Jordan, all these guys are back and stronger. Poor Yankees wont know what hit em....but I bet it wont be a battery in the back of there head.

[OuTpaTienT]

Well, if I were present when Mr. Rocker said the things he did, I just would've turned to him and said,......."Nigga pleeeze."

[tonym]

Rocker is an idiot!

BUT...just because the words are offensive, they can't be quashed nor can Mr. Rocker be deprived of his right to say them. Too many good men fought and died in ideologically-based wars so that this jerk (or any other of any color/race/religion/etc., for that matter) to say what he said.

Remember, it wasn't that long ago that if someone disagreed with the "state" or said something that was considered subversive or offensive in the former USSR, they were subjected to psychological 'reprogramming' and sometimes a trip to Club Gulag.

Finally, if you persecute Rocker for his views, you provide a big, tall soap-box for his ilk to stand on and propose to *DO* much worse. Martyrs always do more for a cause (righteous or not) than does silence.

You know, I blame SI for printing the story that they knew was as explosive as a wagon full of nitroglycerine on a bumpy road! Without SI, he's just another lunatic spouting off and largely ignored by the productive members of society. SI wanted to stir the pot and sell some rags, and found the mother of all lightning-rods.

Oh what a world we live in...


Tony

[narayan]

I cant blame SI, how would we get to know the stars of sports if they censor the interviews? what good would that be? I have no blame, SI or Rocker. SI prints the interview as it happened, I applaud that. Rocker said what was on his mind. I applaud that. My agreement of what was said is another story. Two different issues. "I may not agree with what you say, but I will fight to the death for your right to say it" That may not be an accurate quote and I do not know who said it, but I agree with it 100%. Actually, it is not up to us to agree with this statement, it is in the constitution that we are allowed to say what we want when we want. The thought of speech being "allowed" frightens me. To think of something being "allowed" means that someone is in control. I do not like that. http://www.sysopt.com/forum/frown.gif

[Vincent22]

Narayan,
I agree with you that "allowed" implies control. Although I do believe that PC speech has infiltrated the mindset of the general public to the point that most now seem to think that because you can label something "HATE SPEECH" it no longer falls under the protection of the First Amendment.
Sadly the Supreme court seems to be leaning this way. As a rule of thumb for judging what will be determined by the courts under the first ammendment to be considered a "protected right" is anything that doesn't offend the left. The terms Hate crimes, hate speech, hate groups, are being used in such a manner to arouse emotions and separate us from rational judgement. A foothold gained here to limit speech only to that which is deemed unoffensive is the end of "FREE SPEECH". We are headed into perilous times if the trends continue. Freedom is not a warranty of comfort, of non offense, of security or freedom from fear. Today being free is a threat to some. Unfortunatley to thrive freedom must not rule out or limit. If freedom is to remain a part of our lives we have to accept that a Citzen has the right to be a bigot, a sexist or a homophobe and to express it freely. I say if ya can't take it, if you are too offended you have the right to not listen, to change the channel or to just walk away and accept that in a free society morons come as part of the package. Disagree, speak out against what offends you but for freedoms sake don't limit it http://www.sysopt.com/forum/smile.gif

Sincerely

Vincent

[pickel]

I can't help but take a different point of veiw on the Rocker scene. I can empathize
totally with the statements he made. Though he was definitely foolish in sharing his feelings with a journalist, I know where he's coming from. I don't necessarilly agree
with his veiw , but have felt the same emotions he experiencnced on th #7 IRT subway train. Let me explain...
The first few times I went to Yankee Stadium
We went in my older brother's car. We lived
in a residential neighborhood in Queens. The only time we went into the city was to visit my Grandparents, One in Hell's kitchen ( Italian) and the other west side ( Irish).
The first time I went to the stadium by myself, I had to change subways four times to get there. I was about 10 years old. Not having ridden theses others subways, I was quickly thrown into a world so radically diferrent than my limited years could cope with. Langauges I had never heard, Guys that looked like they cut you for you baseball glove, women with ten kids , screaming and out of control and at everystop along the way your heart would stop with the entrance of a whole new group of potential threats. I found out that there are some subways in N.Y. you shouldn't ride by yourself, esspecially at night. No one is invoulnerable(?). Rocker should have kept his mouth shut. But to fully comprehend what he went through, ride the # 7
sometime during rush hour and get it first hand. Been there , done that..

the pickel

[stylin19]

Greencelery is right. I am wrong. This is NOT a 1st Amendment issue.
"Congress shall make no law respecting the establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech....."

Feds can't touch him. Those he represents/works for, can.

It still seems baseball is going too far.

[daveleau]

He was just striking back at those who treated him as poorly as his words sounded. I am not condoning what he said and I think he lowered himself to the level of the Mets fans that hurled batteries at him. Noone is talking about the poor behavior of those 'so-called' baseball fans. Rocker is an idiot for what he said. But the NY Met fans put themselves into the same light because of their actions. Shame on John Rocker. But equal shame should be placed on the Mets fans (dozens of people) who behaved like most non-northerners think NYers should act. Fine Rocker, but also fine the NYMets for unsportsmanlike conduct (via their fans).
Dave

[narayan]

If its not illigal, what's the big deal? MLB is going after him because they are concerned about what the public might think. Who cares what the public thinks. opinions are opinions.