People Please

[LED]

I'm not trying to start any flames here but a few of my posts have been wrongly corrected and misinformed by some members. I don't mind opinions stated, however, facts are facts and usually when I state them I have data and/or experience to back it up. I only ask that people here be careful in trying to correct others. TIA...
I care not to give the links to the ones I'm refering to.

[BEOR999]

are you suggesting that someone has actualy edited your post, http://www.sysopt.com/forum/frown.gif I hope not....

[LED]

No one has edited any of my posts...it's thatIi responded to a few threads in which my statements were facts and a few people stated I was wrong or an indifference so I must go back and once again state the facts with links. I just believe that some people are jumping the gun STP (So to Speak) http://www.sysopt.com/forum/wink.gif

[richamies]

Which threads and facts are you talking about LED? I certainly hope I didnt offend you with any of my opinions, I can't remember saying anything that might have caused offence but if I have then please accept my apologies http://www.sysopt.com/forum/smile.gif

[LED]

Riches...It's not really important which threads (TX chipset, vaporware, Mainboards, or whatever) I'm just stating that when people guess or really don't know the solution and state like they know then the questionaire is misinformed and I ask that we all be careful (me inclusive). I've got nothing but love for ya all and thanks for the input ...Time for bed in my world http://www.sysopt.com/forum/wink.gif



[This message has been edited by LED (edited 01-05-2000).]

[BBA]

I agree, and I will join you.
If I intruded on anyones factual statements latey, I apologize (been sickly lately...not thinking straight cause of it too)
We all know it's very easy to jump to conclusions, more so when you saw something before that looks close to the current thing and you just don't remember all the little facts together but you just cant help but to open your big mouth and....etc...etc....

Everyone...chill

http://www.sysopt.com/forum/smile.gif

[Nathan G]

Fine Then... I am 10-7 http://www.sysopt.com/forum/frown.gif

[Zotzmein]

Perhaps an alternative to asking people to restrict or regulate them selves; simply provide your concrete, irrefutable evidence from the beginning. In your example this would be links to credible, supporting data to validate your statement.

This would hopefully reduce the number of participants who might contribute disingenuous or erroneous material.

Regards to All,

Zotz Mein

[Axel]

Not sure about the "Facts" issue - but what bothers me is that sometimes the easiest answer is skipped over entirely. A great example was a monitor problem a member was having and everyone was telling the poor guy to go out and buy new monitors and video cards. I suggested he change out the cable - that's when he discovered it was a bad pin in the cable that had come off in the one video card the thing worked with - $3

I try, in my responses, to suggest several courses of action. As I'm not in front of the equipment, I rarely attempt to state a "fact", but, instead, attempt to suggest several "possibilities" the person can work through.

I've also seen several members post answers to problems where you couldn't possibly know what's happening to a system because there aren't enough facts in the initial post. Those really bother me and I usually post that the user needs to give us more info before doing anything. If I stepped on someone in one of those, I'm not really sorry - I'm more concerned the inital poster is going to try something that may have nothing to do with what's happening and end up worse off.

Bottom line - I try to help and I try to keep it simple.

[brandon184]

LED.. I agree with you totally.
I'm not one to correct someone else, and don't like it when people correct me, especially when, as you said, I have educated facts to back up my reasons.

http://www.sysopt.com/forum/smile.gif

[richamies]

The biggest problem with fault finding over the board is it's so easy to miss something you would assume they checked or were doing automatically, I was helping a guy get his cdrom to work after reformatting his hard drive. Spent ages and literally stopped up all night helping him, about halfway through the evening, after going through his autoexec.bat and config.sys etc, making sure he had his cdrom drivers copied over, etc, it dropped that he wasnt actually booting up off the floppy........doh!! Not his fault, not really mine but one of those things. It's so easy to just miss something and assume it is happeneing the way you normally do it.
BTW it turned out his cdrom was dead anyway, poor guy, he spent ages on that and learned quite a bit I think. And I know this isn't really in relation to the original thread but it's something which will get most of us sometime. Facts can be viewed from different angles and manipulated to suit the situation, remember Pentium Pro's and how much better they were, until you started running 16-bit apps?
I'm not going into that but it is an example, and I do expect to get a shooting down here so go for it guy's, nothing I write is meant to offend anyone, it's just my opinion and my advice on what I would do in a situation. I'm not saying that it always works but I don't do too badly most of the time http://www.sysopt.com/forum/smile.gif

[gene1938]

I hope that I haven't been the cause of any problems--being new to computers(back in school after 21 years)Even IF( that's a big if)I think I know a possible answer,I suggest they check-out the info with senior members-sorry if I have been the source of any trouble--gene

[Axel]

Bravo Chainsaw!!
BBA - I think it's more an art than a science getting the root problem out of some of these statements. I'm never afraid to tell someone they didn't give us enough to help them. I get the impression that once you get them thinking about it when they describe their systems to us, that they figure it out and don't get back to us.
My years of telephone support help me. - Ah - some of the support stories I could tell that typically started off with "your software destroyed my system...." never once was it the software - most of the time it was an "uninformed user" trick <<< much more "PC" than I usually am.. http://www.sysopt.com/forum/wink.gif

[CMonster]

Well said Chainsaw:

"The facts" are not always in agreement even amoung the experts. A case in point: the definition of "IDE," some will say it means Integrated Drive Electronics and some will insist that it means Inteligent Device Electronics - I think in this case both are correct, but I might add: Inteligent Discussion Ethics. http://www.sysopt.com/forum/wink.gif

[grandslammer]

hi!

Nope, I think you're all wrong, and I'm going to show you why.......

http://www.sysopt.com/forum/wink.gif

Of course, you all know I'm kidding, right?

I always look for the easiest way to do anything. Because I'm just now beginning to get a glimpse of the awful, horrific truth that is the personal confuser!

You never know how much the other person knows. You don't want to seem condescending, but then again, you don't want them to miss something that may save them countless hours of aggrivation and hearthache...

So, what's a mother to do? Except her (or im my case, his) best!

If it sounds like I'm doing what has been explained above, just tell me, I'm a big boy. I'd much rather someone tell me than just go on looking like (me) an ****...

So, let's all hold hands onemore time, (you too, Pickel and Chainsaw!) Koom By Yah, My Lord, Koom By Yah! (please excuse spelling and tone - deafness!)

Okay, okay,,...

Bye

Mike P.

[Axel]

I see it every day I'm out here Richamies - so I know what you mean. Sometimes taking a step back is exactly what it takes. That's exactly why I post here sometimes as I'm just to close to it to see the problem myself. http://www.sysopt.com/forum/wink.gif

[daveleau]

I hope none of the bad stuff came from me. I try to tell everyone when I am not sure about a piece of advice and to look it up. I agree that often times the simplest explanations are left out. I think that is b/c we assume everyone is on the same level and would have checked the most obvious things. That's not always the case b/c some are newbies and others have different areas of experience/ expertise.
Dave

[richamies]

Dave, thats EXACTLY what I was trying to say! Your version is much shorter and better though, as usual http://www.sysopt.com/forum/wink.gif

[Chainsaw]

'Tis the nature of man to question.
Anyone thinking that a statement is a fact just because someone says it is so, is not thinking for himself. I would have to agree with Zotzmein, that to "provide your concrete, irrefutable evidence from the beginning" carries a much greater weight than the argument that no one should question a statement just because it is said to be so.
IMHO http://www.sysopt.com/forum/wink.gif
......CHNsaw

~edit
I know that if I ask a question,
I welcome ALL contributions,
knowing that I can sort through the answers and form my own opinion as to who is more likely correct and for what reasons.

"The sound of tireless voices is the price we pay for the right to hear the music of our own opinions."
~ Adlai E. Stevenson ~

[This message has been edited by Chainsaw (edited 01-06-2000).]

[BBA]

I can understand a lot of people's reasons for responding to a question with very little information.

There are certain kinds things that seem to happen an awful lot, and if you work in the IS business of keeping thousands of PC's up and running every single day, then you learn to "clue in" to a lot of what people say is wrong when they give a poorly worded problem description.

It's almost Psychology. I save on average an hour or two a day by knowing what a persons system has wrong with it without going through the full t/s process, and most things I end up fixing without leaving my desk.

It's just something you have or you don't! http://www.sysopt.com/forum/smile.gif

[U-96]

The following words of wisdom seem to fix everything....


GET THE LATEST DRIVERS!!!!!


There, we're all geniuses. http://www.sysopt.com/forum/wink.gif

btw if I give bad tech advice (I try to avoid it, I am but a neophyte) slap me down hard so I don't do it again - that's how I learn new stuff http://www.sysopt.com/forum/smile.gif

U-96

[Nathan]

I don't think anyone here wants to give out bad information. Many of us here have been doing this for many years. And of course there are times when we read a post and think it's one thing and we read it again later and think "How did I ever come up with that conclusion?". But the nice thing about this board is when someone is in left field with an answer, so to speak, usually someone else will chip in and help.

We are all human beings trying to help one another.

To err is human, to really foul up requires a computer. And when both happens at the same time, you have yourself a real mess. lol

[BBA]

Nathan...I think that's called an OS.

[Comtech]

Two rules to live by on any BBS.

1. KISS

2. 'Tis better to keep ones mouth shut (keyboard not) and be thought a fool, than to open ones mouth (type lots) and prove it.

[Nathan]

BBA

LOL

Comtech

Hey, I openly admit that I'm a fool. Now does that qualify me to post everywhere, seeing everyone knows I'm a fool?

[LED]

Thanks for the input folks and I know alot of us are techno minded enough to keep on truckin and tryin to help others. Once again the people here have managed to make this thread a smiley one instead of getting nasty...Must be why I keep coming back http://www.lostcircuits.com/discus/clipart/kiss2.gif

[alpha]

Whenever post a potentialy offensive reply, I don't think any of them mean it like that. It can be hard to put thoughts on paper (screen) and it can often lead to misinterpretation.

[U-96]

A good point alpha.
It's all too easy to remember that many people that use this board do not use English as a first language, nor have the (dubious) benefit of an education in the liberal arts. English is a hard language, even for native speakers, and it takes a lot of eloquence and intellect to reflect meaning in text that is simple in speech - especially when technical terms are thrown into the equation.

Just remember that next time you complain about the manual that came with your Taiwanese mobo.

U-96

[Chainsaw]

Hi LED (and to all),
I've always tried to answer only those posts that I felt that I really had something to contribute. I also may occasionally go out on a limb to suggest a possibility, counting on the fact that, working together, we all form a system of checks and balances.
Hopefully, I'll never step on 'anyones' toes in the process and if I ever have, I do appologize.
......CHNsaw http://www.sysopt.com/forum/smile.gif

[This message has been edited by Chainsaw (edited 01-06-2000).]

[john robbinson]

hey axle i read that post a couple months back and it fixed my monitor too thanks.

[medo]

Hello,

I really do not think that anyone wants to give - purposely - the wrong information, (apart from – some members that think that is a fine way to cure their ego by posting, repeating, unnecessary answers) and it will much better if we (I) are not sure 100% just state – I think, by my experience and so on.
This board is a fine place to exchange the knowledge and to help each other and a make sort of friendship and it should stay like that. So keep this board alive.
Personally, http://www.sysopt.com/forum/smile.gif it is difficult for me (sometimes) to understand the questions (because of slang and variation of words) and I try my best not to answer if I am not sure, but we are all just imperfect human beings.
As it is today (07.01) my Christmas I will use this opportunity to wish you all a Merry Christmas. http://www.sysopt.com/forum/Forum1/HTML/003339.html

Medo


http://www.sysopt.com/forum/smile.gif

[OuTpaTienT]

It's very difficult to convey one's tone in a written message. And I've heard it said that one's body language is often more powerful that any words uttered. To some extent you can convey your tone by using various types of _TYPE_ and, of course, the beloved http://www.sysopt.com/forum/smile.gif & http://www.sysopt.com/forum/frown.gif & all in between, but might I suggest the following rules when reading post:

- Always give the author the benifit of the doubt.
ex. If a statement could be interpeted as sarcastic or not sarcastic, choose not sarcastic.

- If a statement is obviously a bit 'out of line', then keep yourself 'in line' and maybe give the author another chance to explain their point of view.

- Keep in mind how varied people's sense of humor can be. Add that to how varied our cultures are (this is a World forum). And there's a lot of room for leeway.

- Last, but certainly not least, keep in mind that EVERYONE has bad days now & then. (IOW, make'em screw up 2 or 3 times before we jump down their throat. http://www.sysopt.com/forum/wink.gif)

[Ed_S]

Lot of good points made here. As to the original topic, I would never contradict another members facts or advise UNLESS I knew FOR SURE they were way off & I could back it up!! This is very rare here, and never from the "veteran" members.

john robbinson's post brings up another reason to try and give clear answers. Others read looking for info BESIDES the person who posted a question. I wonder how many times someone read a conversation between seasoned users & tried for themselves WITHOUT covering the basics the old hands take for granted?

[Underclocked]

Where computers are concerned, I barely know body excrement from apple-butter. BUT, I know there are many times when I see people here honestly trying to help each other. This is the best tech support of all and for the most part comes from a very good group.
The combined knowledge of those who volunteer their help here is very impressive.
I thank you and will try to pass along that which I have gained freely here.
Of course, I'm going to charge for it. http://www.sysopt.com/forum/wink.gif

[welsh wizard]

LED I do hope I have not upset yoy in any way, I know I haven't been around much of late, but I did have a spell of posting quite a lot though I did try to keep away from any thing to much on the technical side as I posted some time ago that my memory wasn't to hot at the moment and any advice should be double checked becuase of this, and now I try to put some sort of link to any important answer, but if I have done any thing to upset you please except I apoliguise
And i will make this statement again

"DUE TO CERTAIN EVENTS, ANY ADVICE I GIVE, PLEASE ALWAYS DOUBLE CHECK IT, even when I have put a link to the answer."

WW

[deep_sky]

i am also relatively new to computers (got my first on in october last year), and i have learned immensely by being a member of this board. just by cruising around i learn a new thing every day, and that is a great thing not to be found just everywhere. when i post a response to a problem someone is having, i generally make sure that it is something that i am knowledgeable. example, i am a pcchips motherboard owner and i have worked with it a lot to get the most i can out of a lousy board, so i think that i am somewhat qualified to post an answer to a problem with that kind of board. if i do not know the answer from personal experience or from what i have seen on this board, i do not post. if it is just something i remember seeing on the board, then i try to make mention that i just saw it and that they might want to wait and find out more info before they try my solution.
i have seen my shar also of people who post a response to a problem that they do know anything about and that is very annoying. it wastes the person with the problem's time, space on the server, and the time of people who know something about the problem and want to help if they can. POST ONLY IF YOU KNOW ABOUT IT AND IF YOU JUST WANT TO MENTION SOMETHING ABOUT IT THAT YOU ARE NOT SURE OF, MENTION THAT TOO.

just my two cents.....