Everybody deserves a second chance

[Bob-NB]

Clinton on Rose: 'Everybody ought to get a second chance'
Dec. 14, 1999 5:50 PM
AP
WASHINGTON (AP) Pete Rose has a well-placed ally in his argument for reinstatement to major league baseball: President Clinton.

In an interview with People magazine, Clinton said he would like to see Rose admitted to the baseball Hall of Fame someday, because he considers Rose one of the finest to play the game.

"I think just about everybody ought to get a second chance," Clinton said. "I'd like to see it worked out, because he brought a lot of joy to the game, and he gave a lot of joy to people, and he's paid a price - God knows, he's paid a price."

Rose agreed to a lifetime ban from baseball in 1989, after a gambling investigation. The ban made Rose ineligible for the Hall of Fame. Rose sought reinstatement in 1997, to which baseball commissioner Bud Selig has not formally responded.

Roger Makley, who has represented Rose since early in baseball's gambling investigation a decade ago, will meet in December or January with baseball's top lawyer, Bob DuPuy. Rose termed it the start of a dialogue to end his lifetime ban from the sport.

"I'd like to see what he did right, and what he did well, somehow accepted," Clinton said. "And I'd like it if it happened while he was still alive."

The interview was being published in People's year-end issue, which hits newsstands Friday.

Who would know better about second, third, forth, etc. on chance's?

[dawgtuff]

Pete Rose was a totally consumate competitor.He ate,slept and lived baseball.Look at some other baseball prima donna's that repeatedly got caught for dope,affairs,arrests,etc.,and are still playing ball....PS.If Rose had the same career in politics, I'd vote for him over Clinton anyday!!!!

[Bob-NB]

I'm with you on that. Pete certainly deserves much better that what he is getting.

I just thought it was interesting that Clinton decided to chime in on the subject.

[OuTpaTienT]

It is true though, who else would know better about 2nd (3rd, etc.) chances than Clinton?

I think it's a joke how easy our press goes on Clinton, yet Pete Rose gets a hard time. Rose has earned a helluva lot more respect in my eyes than Slick Willie. In fact I think I can honestly say I have absolutely no respect for our current President. And that's a very sad thing to say.

(but let's not turn this into a political thread)

[U-96]

Well if you like ethical and honest sportsmen, then I guess Bill Bradley will be your next President http://www.sysopt.com/forum/wink.gif

Sorry OuTpATiEnT I couldn't resist!

U-96

[grandslammer]

Just look at the stats...... I don't know them off the top (though I used to) but he's got more hits than anyone who ever played the game. EVER........ The man has like 15 or 20 records, many that'll never be broken.

Like was brought out above, there are people in baseball who have public records of drugs, income tax evasion, alcholism, and more... Although I am a BIG Doc Gooden and Darrell Strwawberry fan (but that's another story, huh?). And they're still playing. What is a role model? The facts are the facts.

Clinton lays with anyone in a skirt, is he a role model? Has he been banned from politics? I thnk not. Give the man a break and recognize all his accomplishments. The way they should be recognized - with a place in Cooperstown!

Mike P.

[reddog4629]

If they don't induct "Perfect Pete" into the HOF then baseball is doomed as far as I'm concerned.

[welsh wizard]

Don't know much about baseball, except what we get in flicks.
But I have to admit a life time ban seems overboard.
As for B.C. and second chance "NO COMMENT"
Any body want tell what he did to get banned for life to the less enlightened amongst us.
WW

[pickel]

I think both got what they deserved. A liar and a cheat. Both are the greatest in their own realm, without a doubt. I enjoyed watching Pete play ball and I , throughly am
spellbound by Bill's oratory powess, however they both crossed the line and brought embarrasment and unnecessary turmoil to the
American public, for that, I feel, they need to bite the bullet and accept their fate.
They,full well, knew what they were doing and need to be responsible for their actions.
nuff said

the pickel

[reddog4629]

Yea but adultery,sodomy,and perjury are a little more serious than gambling IMHO.

[Bob-NB]

WW, Rose "committed" the terrible crime of violating the rules and gambling and placing bets on his own sport...baseball, and more specifically even betting on his own team and it's outcome. He admitted it and was 'banned for life'.

He was and is a true competetor, however, you know the old addage of "the appearance of evil"...

[U-96]

I think most people would be true competitors if they had their own money riding on the outcome.
We've had a couple of betting scandals in British sport too - snooker players and footballers hedging bets on the results of their own performance. It isn't illegal here, just unethical. Likewise, some footballers hold shares in rival clubs.

Recently a couple of guys were found guilty of placing RC devices at football grounds to switch off the floodlights. I think the scam was that Far East bookies would then declare the match abandoned/void and clean up all the stakes.

U-96

[welsh wizard]

Thanks Bob-NB , I see what your are on about now, if he only bet on his side to win then I say it's harsh, if he bet on his side to lose then it's not.
Didn't you guys have something sim with the white soc's, some guy called shoeless Joe Jackson, ended up playing under a false name in the minors, seem to remember a cousin who went to the States in the 30's talking about him on a visit back home to Wales just before he died.( I think my cousin thought he was a great hero to him, Pete really raved about base ball)
WW

[This message has been edited by welsh wizard (edited 12-15-1999).]

[Zotzmein]

Shoeless Joe Jackson was a member of the infamous eight, who allegedly conspired to throw the 1919 World Series; commonly referred to as “The BlackSox* Scandal”.

The eight players would eventually face criminal charges, which resulted in acquittals for all involved. Though they where cleared in the eyes of the law, the players where banned for life from the game of professional baseball.

Shoeless steadfastly maintained throughout the entire ordeal that he was innocent. Evidence exists that support his claim, Shoeless Joe Jackson had the highest batting average** of any player on both team and committed no errors throughout the entire 1919 World Series.

Shoeless Joe Jackson remains banned from the sport of baseball.

Regards to All,

Zotz Mein

* The name was not derived from the scandal but was coined because players where charged twenty-five cents by the teams owner to wash their uniforms. Many players boycotted the laundry fee and simply wore them dirty.

**Among players who played the entire 1919 World Series, his average was .375.


[This message has been edited by Zotzmein (edited 12-15-1999).]

[dkozloski]

Pete Rose agreed to some stipulation as to what he has done when he signed the original deal with Selig, but I saw him on TV just the other day making all kinds of weak technical arguments denying the whole thing just like Bill. Until he does just like is done at a plea bargain hearing and admits the details of what he has done he remains unrepentant and deserves everything he has gotten. He is still laughing up his sleeve at all the saps that choose to believe him even thought the evidence is overwhelming. Honesty and character do count.

[felix726]

Bob-NB I hate to break it to you but Pete Rose never admitted that he gambled on the game of baseball or that he bet on the Reds. Unless you knew Mr. Rose back then and have first hand knowledge of him placing such bets then I would suggest you not preesent such statements as fact. Pete Rose did in fact admit to placing illegal bets on football and basketball games and for this he was banned from baseball. Major League Baseball and all of its administrative officials have to realize the hypocracy in their decision to ban Mr. Rose. Look at players like Daryl Strawberry. The man has been caught using cocain so many times I lost count. He was arrested for solicitation of a prostitute and possesion of cocain recently and was barely slapped on the wrist. Few people loved the game of baseball the way Pete Rose does and he was one of the greatest to ever play the game. He should be in the hall of fame and thats all there is to it.
-felix

[pickel]

Throughout the history of man the norm was seeking gratifacation. We all know alittle bit of sprirts and some other cases (drugs)
tends to heighten these tendencies. I would figure , being human, we have all experienced
this some time in our lives, some more than others. Darryl just has his THING, like millions of others here and all over this planet. An unfortunate and diabling choice on his part.Doesn't really hurt no one but himself in the long run. But the mess that Pete caused and the drawn out publicity and inuendo put shockwaves thru the foundations
of our "national pastime" I can understand
Strawberry but not Rose. The level of the ramifications of both these offenses are
measured by the notoriaty. Strawberry"s
story is 'here today gone tommorow' whereas
Rose' story goes on and on and on.
It's a shame that great players choose to bring the dark side into what ,I feel, is part of the history of our great country....
the game of Baseball.

the pickel

[felix726]

very well put Pickel, but I still think it's a double standard.
-felix

[ANTONIO E GUERRA]

I hope we could apply the same restriction to Bill Clinton in politics. But. of course, Clinton does not know anything about moral standards. I guess he believes that this country suffers from short term memory.

[AQR8]

I've read the thread twice now and thought long and hard about it...dkozloski speaks for my view as well.

pickel, I see your view and it was well stated. I seem to find myself on a slippery slope when trying apply rationalization to an ideal. The longer the process goes the more grey the issue becomes.

[Zotzmein]

More atrocious than poor behavior by players in this wonderful sport, is the serious affliction which has stricken the ability of one team, who uphold the traditions of baseball better than any other in either the American or National league, from achieving the pinnacle of this sporting world, the World Series.

Ladies and Gentlemen: I give you the Chicago Cubs!

Lifelong Cubbies fan…

Zotz Mein

Every night I hear echoing in my dreams, “The Cubs are going to the World Series…the Cubs are going to the World Series.”

---------------------------------------------
Seriously, I think part of the problem into day’s world; we give second chances, which lead to third, fourth, fifth, etc. etc. etc. People care little for the consequences of their actions because there will always be a second chance. I stand steadfast with Pickel.

[Todd Beck]

To suggest that Pete Rose has forever tarnished the sanctity of baseball is bunk. Professional athletics are hardly a bastion of purity. The only reason the baseball owners come down on people so hard about gambling is that gambling might change the outcome of games, and that might cost the baseball owners revenue (the most unthinkable, intolerable outcome possible). True, Daryl Strawberry's idiotic behavior hurts no one but himself (mostly), but the reason the owners don't care about that is because his antics aren't going to cost them any money. This rationale will be lost on all the kids who follow the game, however, who might think that since Strawberry again and again goes unpunished for doing the things he does, then maybe those things are okay for them to do, too. Bad precedent to set.

I actually agree that Rose deserves some kind of temporary ban from the Hall of Fame, if for nothing other than being stupid enough to gamble when he well knew how it would go over if he got caught. But a lifetime ban is just being unreasonable and vindictive.

I also wonder what Clinton is getting for speaking up for Rose. We all know the s&%thead doesn't do anything unless there's something in it for him too.

[This message has been edited by Todd Beck (edited 12-16-1999).]

[bdunn]

Maybe we should split his career and allow him into the all of fame for his player yers even though he did some dumb stuff as a manager.