I HATE YOU REFORMULATED GASOLINE!

[athlonfan]

Ok, so I hot rodded my car. That's part of what makes America great - red blooded American males hot rod their cars. I'm not complaining about the price of gas. I don't really care about about mpg because I knew what I was getting into when I hot rodded it, but I HATE that the GOVERNMENT (and not free market operations because I know Exxon actually lobbies against this) can require that the gasoline in my area be pumped with 10% ethanol.

What does this 10% ethanol do you may ask?
Well, I consistently lose about 15hp on a dyno, and I lose 3.5mpg (this was tested as scientifically as one can get on public roads - multiple tests, done at night to avoid there being other cars, on level terrain, at a consistent speed, at comparable temperature, humidity, and altitude). CURSE YOU GOVERNMENT! LET MY GASOLINE GO! Oh, did I mention that this ethanol blend results in higher evaporative emissions, and higher hydrocarbon emissions, and in the case of older cars like mine more oxides of nitrogen emissions? All in the name of helping a bunch of good for nothing corn famers. Ooooo, but it reduces CO2 emissions which MIGHT have an impact on global warming (nevermind that we KNOW that HC and NOx emissions DO kill plant life and cause an increased risk for cancer in animal life). Oh, and it eats away at any rubber bits (like seals and hoses) that fuel touches. How nice.

[j.m@talk]

Can ya not still get regular fuel tho ?

I know a place near here that still does full lead 4 star ......... :D

[athlonfan]

You cannot get leaded fuel anywhere in the US to the best of my knowledge. You can buy a lead additive to dump in though. As far as non-ethanol-blended unleaded goes (what I want), the government has taken it upon itself to outlaw its sale in my area. The closest place where it hasn't been outlawed is 30 miles away.

Now, I have to e-mail the various gas stations before I make the trip though, because even in places where the government hasn't mandated it you often end up with it. The reason is that the federal government mandated that a certain number of gallons of ethanol be used as fuel each year, and to meet this quota the oil companies have had to blend it into gasoline even in places that allow them not to. Could you imagine the government doing this, i.e. mandate that a certain number of units of a good be sold to consumers, with other products? They should just call it the "make sure my friends stay employed act."

[BadDriver]

Can ya not still get regular fuel tho ?



He can get regular fuel in the summer but when the autumn comes they sell a mix in some states. They pumps oxygen and ethanol into it somehow. Supposed to be greener. :rolleyes:

Maryland does that carp. Where I live now, ferk if it'll burn I can get it 365.

I got a friend that owns with his brothers a small airport. I can get some stuff that'll blow the heads off'n a machine. Not exactly on the up and up and it would ruin my truck if I burned it but she'd run until her converter got clogged up.

Ferk it, cut it off and straight pipe it. :x

[athlonfan]

He can get regular fuel in the summer but when the autumn comes they sell a mix in some states. They pumps oxygen and ethanol into it somehow. Supposed to be greener. :rolleyes:

Maryland does that carp. Where I live now, ferk if it'll burn I can get it 365.


Here in Williamsburg, VA it's ethanol blend 365 days a year. I cannot legally buy regular fuel in Williamsburg or most of the counties in the area (basically anywhere within one county east or west of here and as far south as the state goes).

The same btw is true of the DC metropolitan area (so DC, northern Virginia, and the portion of Maryland around DC)

[leprechaun_40]

Yep, I've known that for years. Having been a pro auto guy for so long I noticed it long ago. My own car would drop 15% in milage when they'd switch to ethanol from MTBE ( this causes cancer in lab rats, but who cares about rats? , but makes the car run much nicer) Now you can't get MTBE or lead. Todays gas just sucks.

[athlonfan]

Yep, I've known that for years. Having been a pro auto guy for so long I noticed it long ago. My own car would drop 15% in milage when they'd switch to ethanol from MTBE ( this causes cancer in lab rats, but who cares about rats? , but makes the car run much nicer) Now you can't get MTBE or lead. Todays gas just sucks.

Yeah, I didn't notice until recently because when all this started I was living in NC, where they didn't do this nonsense. Then I came up to VA and something just seemed wrong, so I made a note of all the numbers and then when I moved back to NC for a short period I started comparing figures. I always knew ethanol was worse, but this is just ridiculous.

And here's the part that's really crazy. THERE IS NO NEED FOR MTBE OR ETHANOL. Why are we putting this junk in? Oxygenating gas is just a bunch of nonsense. Good ol' NC didn't oxygenate at all.

Weren't these darn Republicans supposed to be small government? Instead they just made all these darned laws that tell me what kind of light bulbs I can buy and what kind of gas I can buy and then sent a bunch of kids to war.

DANG IT GOVERNMENT. I GIVE YOU HALF MY MONEY EVERY YEAR, THE LEAST YOU COULD DO IS LEAVE ME ALONE!

[BadDriver]

West Virginia and Ohio don't sell that carp. Ya still get gas here. I wasn't gear heading when I lived in Maryland so I don't know about horsepower loss but I know about the MPG loss.

I left Maryland in May and as far as I know they were still selling unmixed gas during the green months aka spring and summer. The pumps had a tag on them that stated what day they started selling oxygenated and boozed gas but hell I never paid much attention to it. It happened every year. :(

[athlonfan]

Here's the map of the places that are screwed year round.
http://www.epa.gov/otaq/rfg/whereyoulive.htm

[leprechaun_40]

My question was if I'm burning 15% more fuel to go the same distance, won't I make more emissions than if I used regular fuel and got better mileage? Govt. don't wanna hear that question.

[athlonfan]

You know what else is a big con? So we pay tax on an entire gallon of gas right? But the oil company only pays the government tax on the non-ethanol portion, so 10% of what we're told we pay to pave our roads is just going into the oil company's pocket.

Again, I'm not complaining about the price of gas, but I do complain when money is taken from me for no reason.

[athlonfan]

Yeah, I didn't notice until recently because when all this started I was living in NC, where they didn't do this nonsense. Then I came up to VA and something just seemed wrong, so I made a note of all the numbers and then when I moved back to NC for a short period I started comparing figures. I always knew ethanol was worse, but this is just ridiculous.

And here's the part that's really crazy. THERE IS NO NEED FOR MTBE OR ETHANOL. Why are we putting this junk in? Oxygenating gas is just a bunch of nonsense. Good ol' NC didn't oxygenate at all.

Weren't these darn Republicans supposed to be small government? Instead they just made all these darned laws that tell me what kind of light bulbs I can buy and what kind of gas I can buy and then sent a bunch of kids to war.

DANG IT GOVERNMENT. I GIVE YOU HALF MY MONEY EVERY YEAR, THE LEAST YOU COULD DO IS LEAVE ME ALONE!

A correction (apparently you can't edit posts here). It was the darn Democrats who kicked off the banning of the incandescent light bulb. So, they're all scum.

Dang it. Obama, Biden, McCain all voted for both the ethanol mandates and the light bulb ban. I can't vote for anybody!

[mireland]

so we're dealing with bad gas then? :D

[BadDriver]

so we're dealing with bad gas then? :D

Don't get him started OK? :mad: :t

[leprechaun_40]

A correction (apparently you can't edit posts here). It was the darn Democrats who kicked off the banning of the incandescent light bulb. So, they're all scum.

Dang it. Obama, Biden, McCain all voted for both the ethanol mandates and the light bulb ban. I can't vote for anybody!


Do like me, I'm not voting for anyone who's currently in the house or senate and I'm voting "none of the above" for president, none of thems worth a carp or a vote.

[BadDriver]

Do like me, I'm not voting for anyone who's currently in the house or senate and I'm voting "none of the above" for president, none of thems worth a carp or a vote.


Do the old stand by (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NawhWb8Uu5E) write in. :D

I thought I saw Obama in that video somewhere. :r

[athlonfan]

I was thinking about writing in Howard Dean, because then that says I have someone in particular that I think is better, rather than just I know you two are carp.

[j.m@talk]

LRP we got ...... Lead Replacement Petrol ....... I have no idea "What" that is but I often see older cars coming in & filling up with it ....... There was a Vintage Rolls there today ........ When I was slooshing a mere £55 ($112) worth of Super Unleaded in :rolleyes:

[athlonfan]

While I don't want nationalized health care, I could spend more on gas if I didn't have to pay health care premiums and then a co-pay on top of that, so at least your guys gas price gets you something, and you don't have to deal with all the London stupid charged since you're in the NW.

[j.m@talk]

Its kinda pointless driving in Inner London now anyways ...... Faster to walk

Nationalised healthcare is nice ..... I can't see why anyone wouldn't want it .... Spose ya could just plain die if ya got ill or crashed or whatever

[BadDriver]

Its kinda pointless driving in Inner London now anyways ...... Faster to walk

That's cause you all is a bunch of wuss's.

Honk Honk!!

Beep Beep!!

Outta my way you mofo!! :mad:

[BadDriver]

http://www.impactguns.com/store/media/sw/smith_620.jpg

Traffic control. ;)

[athlonfan]

Its kinda pointless driving in Inner London now anyways ...... Faster to walk

Nationalised healthcare is nice ..... I can't see why anyone wouldn't want it .... Spose ya could just plain die if ya got ill or crashed or whatever

My brother and two of my uncles are doctors. I don't want nationalized health care because they've told me just how little care the government pays for for the people it currently covers.

[athlonfan]

http://www.impactguns.com/store/media/sw/smith_620.jpg


At least we still have that right.

[BadDriver]

At least we still have that right.

For now. :( I would still have to only turn in 2 of mine. That is all they know I got. ;)

[j.m@talk]

My brother and two of my uncles are doctors. I don't want nationalized health care because they've told me just how little care the government pays for for the people it currently covers.

Woo yeah its sooo much better to have to pay every time .... Umm

I can go private too tho' which sometimes is a good thing & other times isn't

Personally I doon't have a problem with the state picking up the tab :t

[athlonfan]

Woo yeah its sooo much better to have to pay every time .... Umm

I can go private too tho' which sometimes is a good thing & other times isn't

Personally I doon't have a problem with the state picking up the tab :t

You're not getting it. From what my family members who are doctors tell me, the people who are currently paid for by the state basically get the bare minimum of medical care because the state doesn't like to pay for things like MRIs...and surgery. So my worry is if our country nationalized the health care, that's probably the level of care we'd all end up with (this government hasn't shown itself to care about people).

Also, because of our all private system, the rich are able to just blow money on the system (like how Dick Cheney, the Sultan of Brunei, and some other people have year-round reserved rooms at Washington Hospital Center - these aren't regular rooms either; to give you an idea they have a private chef), which is part of the reason our medical care (if you can pay for it) is the best in the world.

[j.m@talk]

Your Govt is a fair reflection of the mindset of the average Joe/Sid/Bert/George W on the Street..... We spend Billions on our NHS, scanning, chopping, helecoptering ppl around the place. We are quite rightly proud of our system it works a treat. They even inject ya with the relevent substances before you travel abroad too ....... Its cheaper in the long run to do that, than to treat all sorts of exotic this & thats that ppl pick up while away ........ Umm ...... We do get a lot of people whining that they want this drug & that drug ...... Cos they have cancer & they read on the back of a corn flakes packet that it will cure them....... But you can't make everyone happy. I'd like to say that free contraception makes unwanted pregnancies a thing of the past here ........ Unfortunately its just the oposite ..... But there ya go ....... It ain't a perfect world :t

[j.m@talk]

Also, because of our all private system, the rich are able to just blow money on the system (like how Dick Cheney, the Sultan of Brunei, and some other people have year-round reserved rooms at Washington Hospital Center - these aren't regular rooms either; to give you an idea they have a private chef), which is part of the reason our medical care (if you can pay for it) is the best in the world.

Private chefs & fancy decor don't make shizz medical diff ....... It just means that the rich live & the poor die .......... Our way means everyone lives. I know thats a terrible concept innit.

[athlonfan]

Private chefs & fancy decor don't make shizz medical diff ....... It just means that the rich live & the poor die .......... Our way means everyone lives. I know thats a terrible concept innit.

You're still missing it. Because it's private, the hospitals are able to make a lot of money off of people who aren't actually using the room but are rich and like to blow money. They then buy more MRI machines and the like with this money.

[j.m@talk]

Making a lot of money off people that an't really ill ...... Thats call ripping people off ...... Not what health care is all about ...... Never mind :t

[Lgbpop]

You both are missing the real point - everybody kicks the bucket. No one gets out alive. All we do is argue about how to forstall it for as long as possible. I gave up worrying about all this c rap long ago.

[mireland]

You both are missing the real point - everybody kicks the bucket. No one gets out alive. All we do is argue about how to forstall it for as long as possible. I gave up worrying about all this c rap long ago.

they way things are going for me now, my life ain't SHORT enough! :mad:

[athlonfan]

Making a lot of money off people that an't really ill ...... Thats call ripping people off ...... Not what health care is all about ...... Never mind :t

Well, it's their choice. But at any rate, I think you have to accept the realities of different cultures. Becaues it would be a hard sell here, it would end up getting done on the cheap. You gotta remember, this is the same country that while advanced still runs slow as molasses trains - when something is big enough that only the government has the money to make it, it gets made poorly around here.

Also, you have to admit our health care is in fact better for those who can afford it. My dad came in with chest pain that had been plauging him for a while and within a few hours they had done a quintuple bypass, no beauracracy to mess around with. If you need an MRI here and you have insurance or are rich, you can get it taken care of immediately, I mean 0 waiting, just walk over to the machine, and this isn't just for emergency cases. It has its benefits.

I was in a Swiss hospital last summer. A private one at that, in Zurich too. It was nice, but it was like a US hospital from 30 years ago.

[leprechaun_40]

they way things are going for me now, my life ain't SHORT enough! :mad:
Yeah, but dead is waaaaaay too long :eek:

[athlonfan]

they way things are going for me now, my life ain't SHORT enough! :mad:

If it's any consolation, I bet I have you beat.

[werz]

You'll never convince those of us with a national health system to swap for private only.
We can have both, if we like, but nine times out of ten you'll only use the free service.
You still get to choose your family doctor, which is the only medical person you hope to see, anything more serious and you'll be treated immediately in a world class hospital, as the medical tourists from the US can attest to..
I had an MRI, but had to wait half a hour so we're a bit slower.

[j.m@talk]

This is the bit where I usually would do my Cat scan joke ;)

Returning back ....... Trying to teach a lot of Americans that the term "We" & "US" is waay better than "Me" & "I" ...... But there ya are ...... They are the self professed best & Bush is a God

[Lgbpop]

This is the bit where I usually would do my Cat scan joke ;)

Returning back ....... Trying to teach a lot of Americans that the term "We" & "US" is waay better than "Me" & "I" ...... But there ya are ...... They are the self professed best & Bush is a GodTo each his own...that's why this country got started, because of the misfits and individualists. Hope it stays that way. If I want state coddling I can move. Don't take away the option just because some well-meaning dolt things he knows better than I what I want or "need."

[j.m@talk]

Looks like your poor & associated people are going to have to suffer, whilst a select few have it so good.

We on the sensible side of the street look after our own

[athlonfan]

This is the bit where I usually would do my Cat scan joke ;)

Returning back ....... Trying to teach a lot of Americans that the term "We" & "US" is waay better than "Me" & "I" ...... But there ya are ...... They are the self professed best & Bush is a God

I don't think Me & I in the medical context are necessarily better than We & Us, but I do think there needs to be someone who thinks that way. Ok, so we don't have great medical care for everyone, but we have the best there is for those who can afford it because of the amount of money private people dump into it and the competitive aspect of a private health care system.

If you notice, a lot of, dare I say most of, the medical innovation comes out of the US (or Germans who make a lot of money in the US - there's been some investigations that have found that the reason medicine is so much more expensive in the US is that basically the drug companies couldn't afford to come out with this stuff with the prices everybody else pays and the US is place where they can make up the difference because we have money and the state doesn't pay for it).

Now, in the modern world innovation spreads pretty quickly, so the whole rest of the world benefits from our system. So, maybe we're the ones who really know what We & Us mean - our working poor sacrifice themselves for the good of the globe (NB: our poor get their medical care paid for by the goverment - well of it the government thinks is "necessary" anyways - it's the working poor who slip through the crack between so poor the government pays for it and rich enough that I am offered affordable health insurance through my employer).

Actually, I just thought of another thing of beauty in our system. I should clarify for our foreign friends that when I say the government doesn't pay for much health care, I should note that in some states they do (Medicaid is largely operated at the state level). For instance, my brother used to work in a hospital in DC and he said DC Medicaid basically covered anything and everything a doctor would ever ask for. So, for those people who think the government provided health care for the poor should be better, there are places they can move. You'll note that the US has the oldest constitution (and you poms don't have any constitution at all so there). I'd say part of the reason we have such internal stability is that are different states are operated so differently, so there's always SOMEwhere we can go that we'll like and it acts as an escape valve. I like guns for instance, so I'll never live in California, New York, Chicago IL, or New Jersey. If I had to deal with their gun laws I'd be very angry and if some granola eating San Fransican had to deal with my carrying a gun every day he probably wouldn't be too happy either.

Oh, and come to the US and say Bush is a God and see how long it takes for someone to bunch you in the face.

[j.m@talk]

So to summarise your POV, its a case of "If you don't have lotsa cash move away" & "Our medical systems are the best in the world because I/we say so".

"And, if you don't agree with us we will punch you in the face".

That attitude my friend is what lead to buildings being used as Horizontal airports in 2001.

Something that will undoubtedly happen again & more than likely sooner rather than later.

Before you throw your yo-yo on the floor & stamp on it, put your brain in to gear....... Do you really want to destroy your favourite toy ?

[athlonfan]

So to summarise your POV, its a case of "If you don't have lotsa cash move away" & "Our medical systems are the best in the world because I/we say so".

"And, if you don't agree with us we will punch you in the face".

That attitude my friend is what lead to buildings being used as Horizontal airports in 2001.

Something that will undoubtedly happen again & more than likely sooner rather than later.

Before you throw your yo-yo on the floor & stamp on it, put your brain in to gear....... Do you really want to destroy your favourite toy ?

No, my point of view is our medical systems are the fastest and most advanced in the world because the medical community seems to agree (as I stated I have three docs in the family, so as much as I may resist it, I do constantly have this medical banter thrown at me) and that for this to occur requires that it be a private system, so some of us suffer for the sake of the world's benefit.

I don't think people who don't like a situation should leave, I think they should try to change it, BUT I also think it's good to have a system where you CAN leave to somewhere else that better suits you easily (i.e. without changing your nationality and all that) - it allows people to be happier quicker. For instance, with your system, if you liked to shoot pistols, what could you do? You'd have to move to another country.

I don't think anybody would actually punch you in the face, I was just pointing out that most of us don't actually like Bush. Don't you stiff-lips know hyperbole when you see it?

[leprechaun_40]

I thought we were talking gasoline, not healthcare :mad:

[j.m@talk]

No, my point of view is our medical systems are the fastest and most advanced in the world because the medical community seems to agree (as I stated I have three docs in the family, so as much as I may resist it, I do constantly have this medical banter thrown at me) and that for this to occur requires that it be a private system, so some of us suffer for the sake of the world's benefit.

I don't think people who don't like a situation should leave, I think they should try to change it, BUT I also think it's good to have a system where you CAN leave to somewhere else that better suits you easily (i.e. without changing your nationality and all that) - it allows people to be happier quicker. For instance, with your system, if you liked to shoot pistols, what could you do? You'd have to move to another country.

I don't think anybody would actually punch you in the face, I was just pointing out that most of us don't actually like Bush. Don't you stiff-lips know hyperbole when you see it?

Go on then ...... You can have it both ways :rolleyes:

[mireland]

I thought we were talking gasoline, not healthcare :mad:


both topics suck... :D

[j.m@talk]

both topics suck... :D

YEAH !

[mireland]

YEAH !

ditto.

[leprechaun_40]

Well, they won't let us talk about sex, so it's gas and healthcare :(

[mireland]

Well, they won't let us talk about sex, so it's gas and healthcare :(

well sex is good for ones health.... :t

[Lgbpop]

Getting rid of gas is good for one's health but not for sex.... :t

[leprechaun_40]

Getting rid of gas is good for one's health but not for sex.... :t
Or during sex :eek:

[j.m@talk]

Or during sex :eek:

"Nothing"



My mom says...... JM if ya can't say summink nice, say nothing ;)

[leprechaun_40]

Bite my rectum :r

[j.m@talk]

No fanx :t

[leprechaun_40]

It wasn't optional, just do it. ;)