I need some MAJOR help in putting a new computer together from scratch.

[Wyrenth]

Greets all.

As the subject states, I need some major help, here. :P Be forewarned, this is a pretty long message. Go back while you still can. http://www.sysopt.com/forum/wink.gif

I want to put a new computer together from the ground up using the latest and greatest (or as close to it as I can afford). The problem is, with how technology is flying forward, I'm eating more than one mouthful of dust.

I'd like someone to help walk me through what I need, what kinks I may run into, what parts are good, which are lemons, etc. I printed out SysOpt.com's "How to Build Your Own PC", and it's helpful, but it doesn't help me a great deal with some of my concerns.

For starters, what's up with the Rambus vs. DDR SDRAM battle? Has a standard been agreed upon? If not, which should I get?

For Windows 2000, I heard that many programs may not be compatible with it. What kind of programs? I don't want to have to leave behind any of my good old programs (especially many of my DOS games) behind.

And now for the list of stuff that I would like to try and put together (if it'll help):

Dual Pentium Processors (One or two steps down from the highest. I think 800 MHz is the highest, so maybe dual P-700's?) If too expensive, will buy the 2nd later. (Question: Can I put a P-700 and a P-800 together? What about Pentium and AMD mixes?)

128 MB RAM, would prefer 256 MB. If I can afford it, the more the merrier. (buycomp.com's Rambus memory was rediculous though)

Motherboard: No clue. Help? http://www.sysopt.com/forum/smile.gif

20 GB EIDE (or whatever) HD, 30 GB or more preferred (if affordable--HDs are pretty cheap at the moment, it seems)

Video Card: No clue. From what I hear, these cards are constantly changing and becoming better. I hope that I don't run into "I should've waited another week" syndrome.

Monitor: Already purchased. (Mitsubishi Diamond Plus 71)

Sound: Already purchased. (Sound Blaster Live!)

CD-ROM/DVD: I have a CD-RW drive (Plextor Plexwriter 4/2/20), but I'd like to get a DVD drive as well. Unfortunately, what to get, how to get it to mesh well with whatever video/sound cards I have/will have completely boggles me.

Printer: Ink Jet, probably HP, but no idea what's good. Wouldn't it be nice if color lazers were affordable? http://www.sysopt.com/forum/smile.gif

Case: Anyone know what to get, where to get it, etc? :P

SCSI: I have one for my CD-RW drive, but I'll want to get a new one. I'll probably get a bootable card from Adaptec. Any suggestions?

Modem: Already purcahsed. (Zoom 56K Dualmode) Too bad I can't get broadband. :/ I found that this modem and the Sound Blaster Live!'s SB16 emulator try to share IRQs, so I have to hope that I can resolve it in the new PC. For my current PC, I had to disable an IRQ in the BIOS, which didn't actually disable it, but forced the modem to get off of the IRQ that SB16-EMU wanted. Go figure.

Keyboard/Mouse: Probably one of them nifty new Intellimouse Explorers. http://www.sysopt.com/forum/smile.gif Keyboard, dunno. Leaning toward the M$ Internet Keyboard.

Video Capture Card/Netcam: No clue. I'd like to be able to use this thing as a TV, as well as have netcam capabilities. I don't know what cameras are good though. Or what capture cards. At around this point, I'm starting to realize that I'm probably gonna run out of IRQs. :P Why don't they make more?

Scanner: Not an immediate need, but will be considered. Suggestions? http://www.sysopt.com/forum/smile.gif

Anything Else: What am I missing? http://www.sysopt.com/forum/smile.gif

With all the stuff that I want cram-packed into this thing, I really have no idea how it'll all mesh. Especially since I don't know what all I should get in the first place. Or where I should buy it.

Putting it together is going to be kinda tough as it is. Is there someone out there who could kinda be around at beck and call via e-mail to help me sort through this? I'm pretty well lost, and would greatly appreciate some help. http://www.sysopt.com/forum/smile.gif Thanks.

[golfcart]

only my opinion,

go with a single processor, to avoid nt and 2000. not that they are bad, but it seems you are a gamer.

why worry about a new scsi card if you want ide hard drive?

I would personaly opt for 2 smaller hard drives than one large. maybe two 10gig or two 15gig. few reasons, one crashes, you wont be stuck in the mud. its gonna take a while to fill that much hard drive. buy 1 first and use your money towards extra ram. purchase the second when needed.

anyway, sounds like one heck of a system you have planned. good luck

[Wyrenth]

I am a bit of a gamer, but I want to use the computer for graphics design as well. I found that a P-III 667 costs $582 at buycomp.com, which two of isn't a huge dent. Still, if things are tight, I'll wait to get a 2nd one.

Rambus, sadly, is rediculously expensive. 256 MB of Rambus @ 700 MHz is $1380 at buy.com. Owch!

I suppose two 15 GB drives would be wiser. Will have to check and see if the price is lower or not. $230 for a 30 GB HD isn't bad. That's what I paid for my 4 GB years back. http://www.sysopt.com/forum/smile.gif

As for Win2000, I was thinking of it primarilly because it's supposed to handle dual processors a lot better. I won't really know anything until it's released and has been properly reviewed and tested, though.

The reason I was thinking of a bootable SCSI card was because I wasn't sure how Win98/2000 worked on install from scratch. I think Win98 uses a CD, unlike 95, which used floppies. I wasn't sure if I had to have an IDE CD-ROM to do that. If so, then I'd need the bootable SCSI in hopes that it would read my CD-RW the same way as an IDE CD-ROM. Whew. That's a mouthful.

If someone can clear up the Win98/2000 CD Install thing, please do so. http://www.sysopt.com/forum/smile.gif Thanks.

[This message has been edited by Wyrenth (edited 01-18-2000).]

[AuraEdge]

You plan to clock at all? If you do, keep in mind that most 500e's can hit 750, and those that cant usually hit 700. For alot less, you can buy a P550e, and clock it up at basically a 100% success rate to duplicate a 733 in every way but whats written on the processor.
I would go for 256MB of PC133 SDRAM, or DDR RAM when available, to deal with the graphic designing job, w/o killing the bank. I wouldnt go duals, because I dont think you need that much power (bragging rights maybe...).

Dont forget that you need a dual board for dual processors, which may cost alot more than a normal board (the exception is the BP6, but your P3's wont work in that).

If I was a graphic designer, I would invest more money in a good professional graphics card, such as the Oxygen or the Quadro.

[Richard_Cranium72]

I think you are like me in that we want to get right in the thing.. A barebones unit will satisify that need,, check on future needs and make sure the unit has what you need as far as expansion slots.. some only come with one isa and three pci.. of course these are extra as you will already have the standard necessary ports ie mouse, kbd,monitor,printer,serial,spkrs,microphone etc. I got a pretty cheap 400amd 27gb 7200, 64Kingston, win98 for bout 6 $bills at www.halfpricepc.net (http://www.halfpricepc.net) the website is unfinished they are close to me in Norcross Ga area code 770 Lots of folks sell barebones.. I think you can save money buying a complete unit already built.. I priced for a long time,, good luck DrVette

[Wyrenth]

I suppose a bare-bones system might be good to work from and add on to, but if I'm going to buy any sort of system, it'll probably be one that comes with everything I need (Dell carries some good comps). But the experience gained in putting the comp together will be useful later should I need to troubleshoot. I know what's in it, how it works, etc. Problem is in learning all that. http://www.sysopt.com/forum/smile.gif

I'm afraid I haven't heard of those video cards (above). With both Gaming and Design being part of what I want, would those cards fare well?

[BC]

*Warning long post*

You are right about that: putting a computer together will give you experence. But you probibly don't "need" all of that. This is what I do. I try to back off of getting all the power that is out there right now. Mainly the volitile stuff like CPU RAM. The prices on those are in such a flux. I am still kicking myself for not picking up another 128 meg chip 7months ago, but now they have pc133 chips that I need more than having 256mb of pc100 ram. So the trade off is nice. I bought a celeron 300a and o/c to 450 which lasted me longer than any other chip that I have had. And you know what? It is at the same price now then when I bought it. I tend to upgrade my PC all the time. I though about a dual processor board once but I can buy a chip for less than $100 use it for 5 months buy another chip for $100 use it for 5 months and so on. And you know I am better off because I get 2 cpu's for the price of 1 that way. As far as ram goes get what will get you by now. Then as prices go down maybe get more. But get no less then 128mb. Video- you say that you are a gamer and thinking about video graphics I don't know of any great cards that do both but do more research on this. Video is something people take for granted and it shuldn't be. It can increase system speed and stability a great deal.I bought my 1st "expensive" video with this last machine that I got it was great a TNT was fast and reliable. Now It is inadiquate and so now I am looking at getting a new one. So this card is now worth about $50 and is going into another machine for someone else. And I will get a 1. TNT2 w/32mb ram. Or a GeForce w/32mb ram Or if the price is right and it comes out in time the V5 6000 w/128mb ram.<---Dreaming I think about the price being right http://www.sysopt.com/forum/biggrin.gif
HD- yes get 2,3,or even 4 smaller ones. The prices the way they are now I don't spend more that $200 for a HDD. The last one I got was a 20gig for $150 That makes 40gig right now $300 but in a few months that will make 50gig $250.

Win2000 yes it is bootable from CD so is 98. 95 is too if you get the floppy boot disk from 98. It is all in the sequence. And if you have a MB that lets you do this. too. To boot from a cd device.
Since this is your 1st build Try to put that $ aside build you a cheaper model figure out what you did what you forgot what if you had to do it all over again what you would do to make it better then use the parts that you can reuse like mem,HDD,MB,Video,Mon,Key,Mouse, and anything else I am missing and improve on it. Then soak that $ that you would have put in it at the beginning in it at that point. I think you will have a better understanding of how you build it better that way you may not save money but you will not loose any money either.

That is my $.02 or I should say $2.00 http://www.sysopt.com/forum/smile.gif

[BC]

Also you asked earlier about AMD with Intel. I don't know of any MB that will let you do that. So I would say the answer is no.
Sorry.

[Tailkinker]

All of the suggestions made are excellent ones, but I would like to go one step back and say - research, research, research...When I put together my system I thought that I had done some fair amount of research -- however, after purchasing a pc kit (which came with basic, albeit cheaper components for video, audio & 56K winmodem) for under $200, AMD K6(2) 400, 3 sticks of 64 SRAM and I moved my two hard drives from an old unit to the new, along with my monitor. My total was I believe $500-600. Everything worked out, but it's an awful lot of work trying to integrate the various components and drivers to effectively create as stable an environment as you can get with Win98...On top of everything, the PC kit didn't give detailed specs as to what brands were being used; and, I later found out that AMD K6-2s are, according to AMD, not compatible with Motorola Softmodems...which caused me endless problems - until I recently upgraded mobo to FIC PA2013 & CPU to K6(3) 450 for $230...Sorry to go babbling on and on, I just wanted to share my experience - which I would do again and again, merely because I like to tear things apart and figure out how they work -- but I wish I had checked out my favorite magazines online to check out reviews instead of relying on product information provided by the companies...Hope all goes well for you!

[This message has been edited by Tailkinker (edited 01-21-2000).]

[BC]

Yes that is a given (sometimes) when you buy "cheap" computer kits you will get problems. I suggest not buying kits unless they are name brand stuff. Like the sound card. You want A SB that is well supported. Like a generic brand X isn't as supported. Also the Mother Board that you buy is very important. If you get a PII,P3,Celeron I would recomend an ABIT. They work great. But again if you get a cheap one that is what you get headaches.

[Wyrenth]

A quick note to ponder over...

With so many toys out there (and man am I eager to get all of them geeky toys! http://www.sysopt.com/forum/smile.gif ), why doesn't the computer industry make more IRQs available for use? Get rid of all them nasty IRQ conflicts. http://www.sysopt.com/forum/smile.gif It's kinda like Bill Gates' error on Conventonal Memory ("640 KB is plenty for everyone, you'll never need more." -- Thus I tend to shudder when someone says, "You'll never need more than that." http://www.sysopt.com/forum/smile.gif )

But then, I suppose it'll be a while before it does happens. As ZDTV's Tilde said in reply to that via e-mail, "Ahhh... in a perfect world, James. Someday, oh yes, someday..."

Who's buttons would we have to push to get this kinda thing from a dream to reality, anwyay, I wonder?

[beller6]

Hi According to Microsoft Inside, Win2000 is a business platform, I would go with 98 (even with all the bugs).

No you can't mix amd with Intel. I wanted a true compatable system so I went with P3, It seems AMD you will have to download from their site a fix it.

You seem to be a gamer and you said you want to play with your dos games, Win2000 and nt will not supoort those but 95 and 98 does.

As for tv I have one card that you might be happy with. I have the stb desktop tv also with fm. (though I stopped using it so I removed it from the system)it also comes with great software and does a great job of vidcapture.

You also have to remember one thing, it's the software that decides how fast not the hardware. I worked for (&*^^%^)Egghead for years, and I know this to be true.

You also seem to going overboard with what you really need. This is a great place to check reviews.
I swear by Asus as the motherboard of choice, it can flash great (5x times on mine now) plus I can change it back.And it's really stable.
As for hd's if your going large you probably want IBM, although I use Western Digital (2)

My dvd is Creative Labs Encore (the best won dvd of the year)I love this dvd, it's my main cd-rom as well. It can read cd-rom, cd-i, cd-r,and I have 24 movies for it. Out put to tv so I can watch off my bigscreen.

I know the confusion about video cards. It's a tough one. I found out the ATB does not support the desktop tv/fm, I bought a Matrox MilleniumG400 Max and it works great with the tv set up.
Because of the problem over in Japan, I would wait on more memory for now, they are cranking out the chips and some are flawed. The prices should come down soon.
I have a new case (atx) that is still in the box. It's a 250 watt Supercase I am willing to let go cheap.
As for the Modem problem did you think that maybe another would do. I have also the 3Com US robotics 56.6 v90, pnp is a snap it will set itself up, will not interfere with any other setting you use.
My system worked flawlessly the first time.

Your right to be thinking about a HP printer.
I did my own testing between HP, Epson . I don't believe the review in Mag's. I brought my own paper with me. Epson ran all over the edges bled, that left it out. According to epson they said yes thier printer was cheap but you would have to buy their paper. I loved HP have had a number of them. Their Inkjet is thermal. That means ink comes out of the printer almost dry, it uses less ink and mine seems to love laser paper.
But Mine is an older printer 2 years young.
if you need further assistance I can be reached at:
<email>beller6@Yahoo.com</email>


[This message has been edited by beller6 (edited 01-21-2000).]

[BC]

Beller try using the [ not the <

I would not recomend the matrox for a video chipset. You are wanting something that may be a little faaster. $ doesn't seem to be a problem much. Gullimont has a TNT2 m64 that in the video ed. has tv out and video in for vid editting. I would think that it will go down from its $150 price with the GeForce 256 coming out. But this is a real kick *** card. But 3dfx is making some cards that are going to have 64 and even 128mb ram <---Takes its own power supply. http://www.sysopt.com/forum/smile.gif
But look around I have a HP P1000 printer and I love it.

[Mr Pink]

MY IDEA OF A COMPUTER!

CPU - No questions here, its got to be the Athlon, either the 550 or the 600, then overclock the begger =)

MoBo - Gigabyte are great for overclcoking and use AMD 750 chipset, excellent performance and quality.

Cooler - Either GlobalWin or MONTAC Artic Circle. The circle can come with additional cache coolers, very nice indeed.

Case - GlobalWin everytime!

Power - 300watts is a must.

Video - TNT2Ultra Guillemot or the DDR GeForce from the same manufacturer.

Sound - Fourttissimo, Guillemot, I have one in my top end system, litrally no CPU overhead and at the sexiest price. EAX aswell as A3D support.

Modem - Diamond Shotgun internal. Cheap, chearful and capable of 112k through 2 lines =)

Hard Drive - QUANTUM Fireball Plus KA! This thing is power ATA66, 8.5MS read and 7,2k rpm, the fastest IDE on the block, and comes in flavours of 6.4 to 27.3GB. Its a bit more pricey then most but is well worth it, I had a QUANTUM for years, used it for gaming served me well, they do get alittle warm, but with the GlobalWin case I suggested, you'll have no troubles.

128MB ram (not Rambus) MAYBE 256, no more needed really.

Monitor - CTX, why, average price for a high quality product.


www.mrpink.co.uk (http://www.mrpink.co.uk)

[Butler]

I, like you am looking at building a new system. I have pretty much decided on what I want, and think much will be the same for you. For starters, Abit BP6 dual processor board. (Rave reviews on this board:
http://www.sysopt.com/reviews/abit-bp6/ )

, with 2 Celeron 450's should O/C to around 700/each fairly easily.I'm hoping that Win 2000 will be acceptable, but I'm waiting for it's release (academic version $5 Whoohoo!) before I go buying tons of stuff. As a fellow gamer, I have decided on Creative Labs' Anhilator Pro Graphics card:

.http://americas.creative.com/graphics/3db-annihilator/

With an onboard processor, and TONS of goodies, it's sure to be the answer to our (gamers') desires. As far as a case goes, if you're going to O/C, get a biggun, and put fans all over it.