Morgan Stanley has issued a full recession alert for the US economy, warning of a sharp slowdown in business investment and a "perfect storm" for consumers as the housing slump spreads. Fed chairman Ben Bernanke will be hoping he can keep the US economy from recession In a report "Recession Coming" released today, the bank's US team said the credit crunch had started to inflict serious damage on US companies.
In a report "Recession Coming" released today, the bank's US team said the credit crunch had started to inflict serious damage on US companies.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/main.jhtml?view=DETAILS&grid=A1YourView&xml=/money/2007/12/11/cnusa111.xml
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/graphics/2007/12/10/benb.jpg
Fed chairman Ben Bernanke will be hoping he can keep the US economy from recession
mireland
12-11-2007, 07:14 PM
that guy looks like he might have a friend under the desk or something.... :t
j.m@talk
12-12-2007, 01:38 AM
Apply towel & ya got Osama ;)
werz
12-12-2007, 01:42 AM
Tell us something we don't know.
j.m@talk
12-12-2007, 01:46 AM
The Moons made O' cream cheese :D
werz
12-12-2007, 01:49 AM
I didn't know that, Grommet old chum. :D
j.m@talk
12-12-2007, 02:44 AM
http://www.somerdale.u-net.com/wensleydale.jpg...
herosrest
12-12-2007, 04:46 AM
Wash down with a pint or two of Riggwelter http://www.pub-explorer.com/images/blacksheep/riggwelter.jpg 5.9% ABV (Bottle 5.7%)
Riggwelter : from the Old Norse: rygg - shoulder and velte - to overturn. When a sheep is on its back and cannot get up without help, local dales dialect says its's rigged or riggwelted. A deep chestnut brown full-bodied beer with a rich near-white head and the aroma of fresh roasted coffee. A wonderfully complex palate with hints of coffee, bananas and liquorice leading to a classic Goldings hop finish.
http://www.blacksheepbrewery.co.uk/images/bsheaders/right/blk_shp_right_award.jpg (http://www.blacksheepbrewery.co.uk/)
l re-read the Riggwelter blurb : Riggwelter : from the Old Norse: rygg - shoulder and velte - to overturn. When a sheep is on its back and cannot get up without help, local dales dialect says its's rigged or riggwelted. A deep chestnut brown full-bodied beer with a rich near-white head and the aroma of fresh roasted coffee. A wonderfully complex palate with hints of coffee, bananas and liquorice leading to a classic Goldings hop finish.
Why? everyone else tries it and fails, miserably. :r
mireland
12-17-2007, 10:15 AM
Why? everyone else tries it and fails, miserably. :r
egad..... :rolleyes:
leprechaun_40
12-17-2007, 04:53 PM
Back on topic, who gives a rats rectum, I've got nothing to lose, well, I've got nothing, so I guess it don't matter to me. Unless they take away my air. ;)
herosrest
12-18-2007, 12:03 AM
No one seems to know the extent of the Sub-prime problem. That in its self should tell anyone (not dependant on or related to the industry) that people are dodging the law.
Banks don't know what they have done? Lock 'em up.
herosrest
12-18-2007, 02:01 AM
A thought.... Free market, non intervention etc.. etc.. why not just let troubled banks go belly up.
werz
12-18-2007, 03:52 AM
Not with my money in em. :mad:
herosrest
12-18-2007, 04:13 AM
Why should everyone else pay to keep them afloat, that's what is going on at the moment. Wind 'em up or sell em off. Who needs banks.
It's just a business, they fail everyday...................
mireland
12-18-2007, 08:55 AM
A thought.... Free market, non intervention etc.. etc.. why not just let troubled banks go belly up.
just as soon as I remove my money from them.... :eek:
herosrest
12-18-2007, 09:18 AM
Quote 'Negative VS Positive Thinking
Much of the stress and unhappiness of people’s lives is caused by negative thinking. There is a constant battle going on between negative and positive thoughts, and when there is some type of setback in your life, those negative thoughts can become rampant.
Sometimes, though even day-to-day living can be overwhelmed by negative thoughts for those who are unable to control their spread. Positive thinking is likely to have a beneficial effect on each of us.
There are a number of ways in which positive thinking can be manifested. One tool in the positive thinking armory can be visualization. What you see, feel and believe will become you in each and every area of your life.'
Much of the stress and unhappiness of people’s lives is caused by negative thinking. There is a constant battle going on between negative and positive thoughts, and when there is some type of setback in your life, those negative thoughts can become rampant.
Sometimes, though even day-to-day living can be overwhelmed by negative thoughts for those who are unable to control their spread. Positive thinking is likely to have a beneficial effect on each of us.
There are a number of ways in which positive thinking can be manifested. One tool in the positive thinking armory can be visualization. What you see, feel and believe will become you in each and every area of your life.'
right now I am visualizing a 20 year old stripper entertaining me...I am very positive about this... :D
herosrest
12-18-2007, 09:35 AM
That is .... pretty positive. :D
j.m@talk
12-18-2007, 10:53 AM
A thought.... Free market, non intervention etc.. etc.. why not just let troubled banks go belly up.
Starts a ball rollin me finks they fink ....... They might be right ...... Ferk knows ...... Must be nice to set up tho ...... Ferk bout a lot...... Have the state bail you out ........ Grooooooovy man
j.m@talk
12-18-2007, 10:54 AM
Not with my money in em. :mad:
Gummidge placed it on red & it came up black ........ Whooooooo dear :t
herosrest
12-19-2007, 04:06 AM
Ya know................. if'n l had the wedge........... i'd set up one of these http://www.seaprincess.wanadoo.co.uk/290846.jpg as The World Stock Exchange - permanently in lnternational waters - and ride out the storms.
Would probably create a World currency for trading as well.
The W0d has a ring to it.
Certainly Sir, that will be 7.4355768222222201 billion W0d. http://www.hillcity-comics.com/role_play/wod/wod_logo.jpg
A significant population enter retirement each year drawing pensions funded by annuity. lt occured to my oddball mind some many years ago - what happens to annuities after the inevitable. l went away and found out. You should too. There is a flaw in 'capitalism' or whatever you wish to call the system. A kind of capital rollover which is very dangerous. lt is lazy. If the pension investment sum was released in full upon retirement an awful lot of mature millionaires would be unleashed. lt is a very complicated simple idea that can auger huge growth.
werz
12-19-2007, 11:42 PM
It's easy to say, let the banks that fail go out of business, when you've got no money in the bank, but we don't know what they invest in, as in our life times banks haven't fail. except for S&Ls in the 80s and Reagan bailed them out. It was another case of lax regulation.
If countries expect it's citizens to save, then they need to have deposits insured against loss from bad investment.
j.m@talk
12-20-2007, 01:30 AM
BCCI went boobies up
herosrest
12-21-2007, 12:43 PM
That was an ancient egyptian thing and they dealt the jokers from their pack.
herosrest
12-22-2007, 04:39 AM
http://image.guim.co.uk/static/40000/original/business/images/logo.gif The global credit crunch claimed another victim yesterday when insurer Friends Provident
suspended withdrawals from its £1.2bn property fund, prompting fears that billions of pounds held in unit trusts
are now under threat. The insurer said investors in the fund, 118,000 people, will not be able to access their money
for up to six months.
It blamed the freezing of assets on a "general sharp decline" in the commercial property market "brought about by the credit crunch".
j.m@talk
12-22-2007, 07:13 AM
118,000 people, will not be able to access their money for up to six months.
Would that of been in the small print. Or are they invoking one of their cryptic clauses ? ..... (No seasonal pun intended) ;)
Not that it affects me directly :)
herosrest
12-22-2007, 08:45 AM
The nuts and bolts of it will be rocket science but... selling low to realise funds for a significant proportion of investors would wreck the fund and destroy value. There just ain't any dosh about for these type of trades. Can't think why?
herosrest
12-22-2007, 10:47 AM
This kinda makes sense - how refreshing.......... :rolleyes:
I gotz ca$h flow issues @ the mo ........ I'm standing shoulder to shoulder with a pizza & we both just made it under the christmas door :(
I'm kinda hoping the cheque I just recieved from G Brown & co don't bounce ...... Still its only three months late ........ & 2/3 the size it should be ........... Annoyed ? who moi ? ........ I should coco :mad:
Thats the way of it. What goes up.................. will eventually go down. Full time fun.
j.m@talk
12-22-2007, 04:00 PM
Sept Brides :(
herosrest
12-23-2007, 04:18 AM
http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/nol/shared/img/v3/bbc_logo.gif (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/7155574.stm) 21 December 2007, 18:29 GMT
Northern Rock has agreed to hold an emergency meeting for shareholders to discuss its sale process on 15 January. The meeting will be the first high-profile occasion for shareholders to grill management after the bank ran into trouble in September. Two of the bank's major shareholders are calling for restrictions on the bank's ability to sell the company's assets or issue new shares.
http://www.hedgefundreader.com/2006/08/srm_global_read.html Investors in SRM Global can choose from two fee structures – a 1 percent management fee to invest for a period of five years and 1.5 percent for three years. SRM Global will retain 25 percent of its profits.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/main.jhtml?xml=/money/2006/12/12/ccdiary12.xml Hedge fund RAB Capital spared no expense when it came to organising this year's Christmas party: hiring out the London aquarium for drinks, dinner and dancing. "We all felt at home among the sharks and stingrays," jokes my man at RAB, who tells me the party continued at a Mayfair club.
Hang on a mo... NR got into trouble with a high risk strategy that Hedge funds exploited. Funny old world. Sharks harpooning whales. whatever next?
bushmaster
12-23-2007, 01:35 PM
This country got raped by the corporations with the direct assistance of the Bush family and the good ole boys.
The Carlyle group and Zero Halliburton amongst others are the ones to look at. This country was headed for the biggest recession ever seen right before 9/11 conveniently came along and we went off to war. But that only put off the inevitable, and now that this administration will be coming to the end of it's terms in office to make way for the next group of corporate America puppets one can only wonder what is next.
werz
12-24-2007, 04:02 AM
I read that the recession which was delayed could have been manageable.
After eight years of mismanagement of the economy, Bush and Greenspan have brought us to a position that is far worse, and the coming recession could be worse than even the thirties depression.
Trillions of dollars have been borrowed to support the excesses of the Bush jnr era, and as usual it's the people who'll have to pay for it, one way or another.
herosrest
12-24-2007, 04:58 AM
All together now. Oh no they won't.
werz
12-24-2007, 07:06 AM
Right kids....
OOOOHHHHH yes they wwwiiiillllll.......
herosrest
12-24-2007, 07:07 AM
l stumbled into this site http://www.sysopt.com/forum/images/smilies/eek.gif (http://www.theobjectivestandard.com/issues/2007-fall/morality-of-moneylending.asp) KLIK SMILEY and thought .. lets have a nosey... even Jesus despised the moneylenders..
Well, l got through the first paragaph.....
The reason there is a sub prime disaster going on is................ People cannot earn a decent wage.
lt is utterly completely that funkin simple!
This is taking place in the richest country in the world.
mireland
12-24-2007, 10:46 PM
pie
herosrest
12-28-2007, 06:48 AM
http://images.forbes.com/media/assets/forbes_home_logo.gif (http://www.forbes.com/markets/economy/2007/12/27/sallie-may-update-markets-equity-cx_af_1227markets23.html) "Unfortunately for Sallie Mae, its stock has dropped sharply this year Shares of SLM have plummeted 59.7% during 2007. Sallie Mae will need to purchase the shares back from Citigroup for more than twice the current market price, an average of $45.25."
mireland
12-28-2007, 08:06 AM
:t
werz
12-28-2007, 01:37 PM
http://images.forbes.com/media/assets/forbes_home_logo.gif (http://www.forbes.com/markets/economy/2007/12/27/sallie-may-update-markets-equity-cx_af_1227markets23.html) "Unfortunately for Sallie Mae, its stock has dropped sharply this year Shares of SLM have plummeted 59.7% during 2007. Sallie Mae will need to purchase the shares back from Citigroup for more than twice the current market price, an average of $45.25."
And that affects us how?
Is this a warning not to buy the wrong shares or something?
herosrest
12-29-2007, 07:42 AM
KLIK ME images
http://www.abc.net.au/catalyst/img/specials/crude.jpg (http://www.consumeraffairs.com/credit_cards/providian_national_bank.htm) Plastik.... Fantastik!
http://www.abc.net.au/catalyst/img/left.jpg (http://www.abc.net.au/science/crude/)http://www.abc.net.au/catalyst/img/mid.jpg (http://www.abc.net.au/science/crude/)
A fiery, steel-making furnace MAY seem like an unlikely place for meltable plastic. But it's got something in it that's vital for making iron and steel strong.
http://asymptotia.com/wp-images/2007/05/carbon400.jpg (http://www.garnertedarmstrong.ws/GTA_Wordfroms/gtanews58.htm)
herosrest
12-29-2007, 07:57 AM
Leadership. The advanced economies of the mid 30's struggled with economic woe. Leaders aware of the coming shifts towards nationalist militarism galvanised lndustry in preparation for the coming conflagration. Parallels can be drawn today. Whether or not climate change is a 'de facto' threat to humanity it provides opportunity for massive economic and technological investment and profit. Gear up green lndustry and ram it down peoples throats. Legislate globally and refuse products which do not embrace the environment.
NO one loses - 'cept of course 'Big oil' - but then the people with an interest in that business actually live on a different planet.
mireland
12-29-2007, 09:27 AM
:t
herosrest
12-29-2007, 09:41 AM
Go green - Drink a barrel of larger.
herosrest
12-29-2007, 09:57 AM
Wayward children should be made to box three rounds against an experienced opponent.
lf they win - they lose 3 months pocket money. :p
j.m@talk
12-29-2007, 11:30 AM
Go green - Drink a barrel of larger.
It gives ya hiccups....... Or in Lando's case Hick-Ups ....... Muhahahahahahaha ........ Ok I'm a leavin' yer Trailor Pawk :t
mireland
12-29-2007, 11:31 AM
It gives ya hiccups....... Or in Lando's case Hick-Ups ....... Muhahahahahahaha ........ Ok I'm a leavin' yer Trailor Pawk :t
I was thinking more like....http://animals.nationalgeographic.com/staticfiles/NGS/Shared/StaticFiles/animals/images/primary/bengal-tigers-two-cubs.jpg
j.m@talk
12-29-2007, 11:39 AM
Umm......... No prob :t
mireland
12-29-2007, 11:40 AM
Umm......... No prob :t
adorable, aren't they? makes ya wanna run right up and disturb that mammas baby... :D
j.m@talk
12-29-2007, 11:45 AM
Kick it :D
:t
mireland
12-29-2007, 11:51 AM
Kick it :D
:t
oh I could just imagine the carnage....bits of JM strewn all over the place... :D
herosrest
02-01-2008, 04:11 AM
http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/nol/shared/img/v3/bbc_logo.gif (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/7155574.stm) 21 December 2007, 18:29 GMT
Northern Rock has agreed to hold an emergency meeting for shareholders to discuss its sale process on 15 January. The meeting will be the first high-profile occasion for shareholders to grill management after the bank ran into trouble in September. Two of the bank's major shareholders are calling for restrictions on the bank's ability to sell the company's assets or issue new shares.
http://www.hedgefundreader.com/2006/08/srm_global_read.html Investors in SRM Global can choose from two fee structures – a 1 percent management fee to invest for a period of five years and 1.5 percent for three years. SRM Global will retain 25 percent of its profits.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/main.jhtml?xml=/money/2006/12/12/ccdiary12.xml Hedge fund RAB Capital spared no expense when it came to organising this year's Christmas party: hiring out the London aquarium for drinks, dinner and dancing. "We all felt at home among the sharks and stingrays," jokes my man at RAB, who tells me the party continued at a Mayfair club.
Hang on a mo... NR got into trouble with a high risk strategy that Hedge funds exploited. Funny old world. Sharks harpooning whales. whatever next?
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~macfie/richard_wilson.jpg (http://financialservices.law360.com/Members/ViewArticlePortion.aspx?Id=45803&ReturnUrl=..%2fsecure%2fViewArticle.aspx%3fId%3d45 803) CLICK PICTURE "Investor SRM Master Global Fund Ltd., which bought a 5.19% holding in the Countrywide Financial Corp on Jan. 24, said Thursday in a filing to the U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission that the agreement did not “provide sufficient value” to Countrywide's common... "
- Nov 28, 2007 Reuters.uk,In a regulatory filing, SRM, run by influential former UBS trader Jon Wood, said it had bought another 2.5 million shares at 114.7 pence each.
LONDON (Thomson Financial) - SRM Global Master Fund Ltd Partners, the hedge fund seeking to stop the auction of Northern Rock PLC, has raised its stake in the stricken UK mortgage lender to 9.29 pct from 9.1 pct.
SRM, led by former UBS trader Jon Wood, said in a statement that it bought a further 800,000 Northern Rock shares at 0.929459 per unit, taking its total holding to about 39.143 mln shares.
Under Mr Wood, UBS's strategic risk management team has delivered an average annual return of more than 50 per cent over the past five years, earning $2.4bn in revenue for the bank.
[COLOR=Navy][B]Morgan Stanley has issued a full recession alert for the US economy...
Sounds like they got my memo. The one I sent last year, shortly after I converted my bank savings to GBP.
Btw, currency speculation is illegal and immoral. Don't do it!
-GM
werz
02-02-2008, 03:07 AM
If the US goes in to recession so will the rest of us, we were all linked by investments in the subprime fiasco.
herosrest
02-02-2008, 03:55 AM
The subprime fiasco is actually a cunning plot devised to save our planet. Long live the hedge. http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/4d/Usdollar100front.jpg/140px-Usdollar100front.jpg (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hedge_(finance))
Actually no one loses with a hedge. So why is everyone paniced (http://www.cartoonstock.co.uk/directory/p/paniced.asp) . :p
Notice: The price of your hedge may go up as well as down.
http://www.interiorlandscaping.co.uk/artplant/hedge.jpg (http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2008/feb/01/banking.mortgages)
mireland
02-02-2008, 09:46 AM
The subprime fiasco is actually a cunning plot devised to save our planet. Long live the hedge. http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/4d/Usdollar100front.jpg/140px-Usdollar100front.jpg (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hedge_(finance))
Actually no one loses with a hedge. So why is everyone paniced (http://www.cartoonstock.co.uk/directory/p/paniced.asp) . :p
Notice: The price of your hedge may go up as well as down.
http://www.interiorlandscaping.co.uk/artplant/hedge.jpg (http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2008/feb/01/banking.mortgages)
Deficits could rise sharply if radical new proposals about the way pension fund assets and liabilities are calculated and reported are adopted.
The Accounting Standards Board (ASB) is responsible for the rules which govern financial accounting.
werz
02-03-2008, 02:52 AM
I find it incredible that banks, pension and superannuation companies the world over have lost hundreds of billions of dollars on American real estate scams.
It seems that to have lost this much money, they must have sold every house in the USA for five times it's value, thats an exageration, but how the hell did banks etc everywhere lose so much, wasn't anyone doing the valuations, are these straight out scams where someone has stolen all this money? George Bush didn't spend it in Iraq did he, where's it gone?
herosrest
02-03-2008, 03:50 AM
Items - whatever they be - are worth.............. what someone will pay for them.
A very, very clever niche financial manipulation went mainstream - l pointed it up in my obscure fashion several times back aways.... several posts refering Pitzhanger Manor in Ealing - Home of John Soane who knocked up the bank of England and how the BoE revolutionised finance by doubling wealth. The current crop of financial geniuses expanded the concept into a revolving door. You know what - it works........ but people are affraid fingers will be pointed, heads roll and golfing prisons fill to overflow. Trust has been 'undermined'.
Can't be pained to dig 'em up searching off topic - but they are there dating back a ways.
Beyond the practical problems of financing shirts - when a business moves stuff off its books, trouble usually follows. Particularly if the'business' is lucrative. Very fine lines define good and bad practise but no one can see what is actually going on.
The gravy train became a lake.
herosrest
02-03-2008, 03:56 AM
Items - whatever they be - are worth.............. what someone will pay for them.
The real problem has not emerged yet but should have been spotted.
Oil prices are going to go ballistic soon, project developing nations growth to the static oil supply and kindergarten members can accuratly predict what is due.
Everything, every single thing we do............... is affected by oil and there is not going to be enough to go round.
That is why the climate change arguments are important regardless of their truth.
herosrest
02-03-2008, 04:15 AM
............... - l pointed it up in my obscure fashion several times back aways....
"..............Giving in to a tantruming child just reinforces the demand," says Dr. Wendy Mogel, a clinical psychologist in Los Angeles and author of the wildly popular parenting tome The Blessing of a Skinned Knee. Each time you cave to a screaming child, it buys you less quiet the next time. The Federal Reserve's latest attempt to calm the market's tantrums—the half-point interest-rate cut on Wednesday—bought about 90 minutes of market silence. Within hours, as poor economic news continued to materialize, the clamor for further rate cuts began. Mogel puts it in starkly financial terms: "Indulge tantrums and you get short-term gains and long-term loss."
herosrest
02-05-2008, 10:32 PM
Ya know................. if'n l had the wedge........... i'd set up one of these http://www.seaprincess.wanadoo.co.uk/290846.jpg as The World Stock Exchange - permanently in lnternational waters - and ride out the storms.
Would probably create a World currency for trading as well.
The W0d has a ring to it.
Certainly Sir, that will be 7.4355768222222201 billion W0d. http://www.hillcity-comics.com/role_play/wod/wod_logo.jpg
There is a problem in Capitalism or whatever its name is these days. ln a word - Accumulation . All these zero's on balance sheets actually accumulate year on year until such time that it will be impossible to service the dividends. An example is retirement annuity. Give the retiree their accumulated saving as a cheque and the current account of life is renewed. Course that is not accepted wisdom -one cannot trust people with huge sums of money can one. hehe. Pension and lnvestment business would actually have to do some hard work, share traders would find workload dramatically increase, retirees would be paying huge sums into BANK accounts and then spending their wealth in the economy and benefiting near and dear ones. Oh what a sad world that would be. :( Couse, everybody at the margins gets a percentage. Jesus despised the moneylenders, l wonder what God makes of them.
herosrest
02-05-2008, 10:43 PM
For the sake of clarity - assume working life is 50 years - then 2% of gross pension funds, returns to the current account. TAX it. Bar stewards rule!. l'm off to declare meself bankrupt. :t
herosrest
02-07-2008, 03:53 AM
Ownership brings risk as well as reward. If something l own brings loss, damage or injury to others - i am, quite rightly responsible and answerable. I can mitigate circumstances and insure against loss but responsibility is mine. This is a basis of civilised law. Banks experiecing liquidity problems belong to people, shareholders face risk as well as reward for investment. No single manager with any responsibilty in these trading debacles should still be in a job. They caused the problems which are going to affect every person on the planet. It is though, the investors in those business's who are responsible for the damage done. Not once yet has there been a call for them to stump up and repair 'their' damaged goods. In fact, shareholders are still being rewarded - for letting the mess happen - and manoevering such that all but themselves actually sort it out. Why aren't people screaming the roof off about this.
herosrest
02-07-2008, 05:07 AM
You can tell - i'm bored
Norther Rock is at some stage finished. The UK governments guarantees were the correct move in the situation that prevailed. The disenfranchised investors (Savers)are secure. The penny hasn't really dropped with share holders that 'they' owe HM's government 25 Billion and interest with no way out - if things get stupid - the government can simply whip thrugh an act of parliament. The very, very, very odd aspect of the affair is that the companies share trading is not suspended - that situation is hostage to fortune.
Northern Rocks owners - it's share holders - deserve some very tight scrutiny. The loan book is quality, funding was its problem. If shareholders were aware of the 'coming' credit crunch and did not act dilligently in NR's interest (excuse the pun) or, heaven forbid, acted against the firms interest by deed or inuendo - it should prove to be a foolish position to have adopted.
The best thing really, would be the Bank of England adopting NR as its high street arm for a few pence, 99p has a nice ring, all in coppers of course. Virgin could then manage the venture rather than expose themseves directly to the risks which exist. Branson is a capital man (Sorry - did it again, excuse the pun) but this could break him and he is useful to have around. That or let the share holders stump up what ever capital is required. It is their mess and responsibility.
herosrest
02-07-2008, 05:20 AM
Those in the know - business analyst - expect some $300 billion of write downs before the credit crunch problems unwind. l may be wrong but this figure seems a little pessimistic, that is not good news though - the analysis' seem to deal with 2006 trading only. How can analysts know better than the banks what is going on......... well that is what they do, they are experts and the markets TRUST them.
herosrest
02-07-2008, 05:51 AM
If you wonder where this all comes from with me.............. read on. l learnt, a long time ago, it's those closest, those you admire, those you love and the plain simple insane, who do you damage in life. There is a group within every community who just cannot cut it - it is perhaps some 5% who just get through the days with no real understanding of what its about, how to do it or why they should. Another 90% or so just get on with it - their lot - and make the best they can. That leaves 5% more, geniuses of various fields and skills who will rise and benefit both themselves and the whole. BOTH minor groups are basically insane. Shareholders in Financial business look for and garner the best people. These shareholders have encouraged and nurtured an environment of insanity, pandering to the egos of executives with remuneration - salary, perks and bonuses that have caused the problems they now find. These problems really are unreal.
herosrest
04-02-2008, 12:03 PM
http://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/news/images/logo.gif (http://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/news/biz/2008/04/126_16564.html) The equity fund market grew 146.8 percent from late 2006.
herosrest
04-04-2008, 12:18 PM
http://www.morganstanley.com/img/logo-ms.gif (http://www.morganstanley.com/outlook2008/index.html) Tactical Investment....... one li'l pearl of wisdom.........
herosrest
09-28-2008, 07:26 PM
Items - whatever they be - are worth.............. what someone will pay for them.
A very, very clever niche financial manipulation went mainstream - l pointed it up in my obscure fashion several times back aways.... several posts refering Pitzhanger Manor in Ealing - Home of John Soane who knocked up the bank of England and how the BoE revolutionised finance by doubling wealth. The current crop of financial geniuses expanded the concept into a revolving door. You know what - it works........ but people are affraid fingers will be pointed, heads roll and golfing prisons fill to overflow. Trust has been 'undermined'.
Can't be pained to dig 'em up searching off topic - but they are there dating back a ways.
Beyond the practical problems of financing shirts - when a business moves stuff off its books, trouble usually follows. Particularly if the'business' is lucrative. Very fine lines define good and bad practise but no one can see what is actually going on.
The gravy train became a lake.The subprime fiasco is actually a cunning plot devised to save our planet. Long live the hedge. http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/4d/Usdollar100front.jpg/140px-Usdollar100front.jpg (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hedge_(finance))
Actually no one loses with a hedge. So why is everyone paniced (http://www.cartoonstock.co.uk/directory/p/paniced.asp) . :p
Notice: The price of your hedge may go up as well as down.
http://www.interiorlandscaping.co.uk/artplant/hedge.jpg (http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2008/feb/01/banking.mortgages)hedge fund? you silly twat! :rolleyes:
Ya know this great big wonderful $700 billion relief fund thingumajig that is being rushed thru.......................... u may have heard of it recently.
Why is this one going to work...........when...................... the one the Banks organised all by themselves -- about a year ago didn't. (like - ok, we'll sort it out ourselves)
Then it was only 80 billion or so............... and the problem was smaller then.
Ha ha haha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha...... he he hee hee hee..........
Everyone, and l mean everyone will just get p o'd with this mess and remove funds that are not guaranteed by government. That will be fun. Hedge funds first
In finance, a hedge is an investment that is taken out specifically to reduce or cancel out the risk in another investment. Hedging is a strategy designed to minimize exposure to an unwanted business risk, particularly in inflationary economies, while still allowing the business to profit from an investment activity. Typically, a hedger might invest in a security that he believes is under-priced relative to its "fair value" (for example a mortgage loan that he is then making), and combine this with a short sale of a related security or securities. Thus the hedger is indifferent to the movements of the market as a whole, and is interested only in the performance of the "under-priced" security relative to the hedge. Holbrook Working, a pioneer in hedging theory, called this strategy "speculation in the basis", where the basis is the difference between the hedge's theoretical value and its actual value (or between spot and futures prices in Working's time).
All these profits that Have been made on paper - actually have to come from some chump somewhere
herosrest
09-28-2008, 07:46 PM
Putting the point over in another way - there's a developing trend for hedgefund investors to liquidate their investments.
lf that isn't spotted yet by those who need to know wtf is actually going on - then it should be noticed. Like...... NOW! :rolleyes:
Large scale liquidation will kill share price.
mireland
09-28-2008, 08:10 PM
be sure to keep us posted on this... :rolleyes:
BORED ARE WE?
herosrest
09-28-2008, 08:56 PM
Not at all, at all. You must be mad to hold shares.
Only the lot that caused the fun & games will get caught out.
It's odd - you bet that a share price will fall so you can make pots of money.
You then do everything possible to ensure the price does fall.
Next - have a heart attack or dive under a train, when the price does actually fall........... to zero.
The term ah so, comes to mind.
What goes on inside these peoples heads. They are not well.
herosrest
09-28-2008, 09:21 PM
Nothing is going to change. Stupid money after bad.
The under lying problem remains. A disintergrating property market that has no bottom.
This help package will SAVE Business's it is aimed at.
lt will not start them lending again and the economy is still screwed.
werz
09-29-2008, 11:08 AM
700 Billion dollars, they'll never be able to afford universal health care now. They're to busy helping pay the debts of the super rich, to be interested in spending money on ordinary people.
j.m@talk
09-29-2008, 11:47 AM
I'm gonna send in my Gas bill...... See if they will pay that :t
leprechaun_40
09-29-2008, 12:27 PM
That huge flushing sound you hear? It's US going down the swirly :eek: And taking the rest with us
Shoreguy
09-29-2008, 12:31 PM
They should have given the 700B to all legal US taxpayers. Let them decide what to do with the $$$....Even given the total US population, that's 22M per person! It would revamp the entire economy and wall street, as well as making pron, alcohol and drug use the 3 top investments in most portfolios!!! ....Go Mary Cary for Prez!!!
mireland
09-29-2008, 02:30 PM
That huge flushing sound you hear? It's US going down the swirly :eek: And taking the rest with us
If I'm going..I'm taking some overpaid rich exec with me... :mad:
j.m@talk
09-29-2008, 03:05 PM
Hang on I don't get this :(
So how does the fact that some of Uncle Sams bankers have made some dodgy loans turn in to a global catastrophe ?
I don't geddit :t
How come the world ain't goin' ...... Tough Poo poo's ........ I know I am ;)
leprechaun_40
09-29-2008, 04:30 PM
You'll get it when it hits yer wallet, and it will, trust me. :t
leprechaun_40
09-29-2008, 04:52 PM
Stocks closed down nearly 800 points, hear that giant flushing sound now?
j.m@talk
09-29-2008, 06:25 PM
Al Queda will be laffing their nuts off over in the oil rich Mid East :t
herosrest
09-29-2008, 06:50 PM
Thing is it happened before. 1929. Wall St. down the toilet. Life just went on. These can'ts get to much air time and people believe their BS. They even believe it themselves. Gold keys for the executive toilet. Think abart it................
Have a shufti................ http://www.sysopt.com/forum/showthread.php?t=201717
that's 22M per person!
And ya still can't get credit. :D how many 0's in a US billion. Loads. Sh*t loads
mireland
09-29-2008, 07:41 PM
:(
Shoreguy
09-29-2008, 07:54 PM
There's so many facets of this **** I get...yet still can't wrap my arms around as to how few saw it coming?
1. World's largest pyramid scheme of the highest order.
2. A shortbus rider who scammed us the 1st time, but enough actually voted for the 2nd.
3. Cats asked to oversee the mousing industry (Paulson parachuted out of GoldSack)
4. JM proudly displays dead rodents on his head
5. Britney's xxx vid soon to boost economy (http://radaronline.com/exclusives/2008/09/twohour-britney-spears-sex-tape-coming-soon.php).
6. Palin....nice tush...24yrs ago (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rSdFIDygFwM)
The texan banned a few mo's ago really would've had his in a twist trying to explain this all.
mireland
09-29-2008, 08:00 PM
There's so many facets of this **** I get...yet still can't wrap my arms around as to how few saw it coming?
1. World's largest pyramid scheme of the highest order.
2. A shortbus rider who scammed us the 1st time, but enough actually voted for the 2nd.
3. Cats asked to oversee the mousing industry (Paulson parachuted out of GoldSack)
4. JM proudly displays dead rodents on his head
5. Britney's xxx vid soon to boost economy (http://radaronline.com/exclusives/2008/09/twohour-britney-spears-sex-tape-coming-soon.php).
6. Palin....nice tush...24yrs ago (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rSdFIDygFwM)
The texan banned a few mo's ago really would've had his in a twist trying to explain this all.
I think #4 happened just recently...
j.m@talk
09-29-2008, 08:00 PM
Britneys only sellin her vid in €uro's tho' ........ Dollahs are soooooo noughties :t
mireland
09-29-2008, 08:01 PM
Britneys only sellin her vid in €uro's tho' ........ Dollahs are soooooo noughties :t
I got that copy of the Keester cops you were lookin' for Lando :t
mireland
09-30-2008, 07:46 PM
I got that copy of the Keester cops you were lookin' for Lando :t
:confused:
leprechaun_40
09-30-2008, 07:48 PM
I got that copy of the Keester cops you were lookin' for Lando :t
Pron?
j.m@talk
09-30-2008, 07:52 PM
Pron?
Gay Pr0n
leprechaun_40
09-30-2008, 07:52 PM
Gay Pr0n
Oh ick :eek:
mireland
09-30-2008, 07:53 PM
Gay Pr0n
send those werz' way then... :rolleyes:
leprechaun_40
09-30-2008, 07:54 PM
send those werz' way then... :rolleyes:
Don't forget Zybby
herosrest
10-10-2008, 11:59 PM
Traders' worst fears realised at Lehmans auction
Credit default swaps are a kind of insurance, which investors used to protect themselves in the event that Lehman defaulted on its bonds. Unlike traditional insurance, however, any financial firm could write a credit default swap contract so banks, insurance companies, hedge funds and traditional fund managers are among those now being required to make investors whole. ............
..................... The auction set a price for Lehman bonds of 8.625 cents on the dollar. Financial firms that sold credit default swaps, therefore, owe 91.375 cents on the dollar – more than Wall Street had been factoring in. That figure increased nerves about whether everyone in the chain will actually be able to pay the amount that they owe, something that will become clear over the coming days. Participants said the auction went smoothly and efficiently.
herosrest
10-11-2008, 09:03 PM
Now the fur really starts flying........... unfortunately, and as usual, no one thinks things through...................
So Mr. A. Baba.......... this 1.7 million you commited to Blah Links Confidential Equity Squid and Hedge trimming Fund Came to you exactly how??? Just bring your IRS declarations tomorrow please. Thankyou. Case adjourned. NEXT!
'ere we go, 'ere we go, 'ere we go................. 'ere we go, 'ere we go, 'ere we go - Oh!.
herosrest
10-11-2008, 09:15 PM
Every one knows there is no sanity clause.
mireland
10-11-2008, 09:29 PM
Every one knows there is no sanity clause.
Sanity certainly does NOT run in your family... :t
herosrest
10-11-2008, 09:34 PM
Nope he rides a sleigh. :t
Jingle bells, mortar shells,
Al quida in the grass.
You can take your merry christmas
stick up your chimney! :t
j.m@talk
10-12-2008, 02:33 PM
Soooo Uncooth :(
mireland
10-12-2008, 02:50 PM
Soooo Uncooth :(
maybe you could lend him some of YOUR cooth.....or not... :D
leprechaun_40
10-12-2008, 02:51 PM
Who needs cooth?
j.m@talk
10-12-2008, 02:58 PM
Ero' does :t
mireland
10-12-2008, 03:22 PM
Who needs cooth?
I'll type up a list and email it to you... :D
herosrest
10-12-2008, 03:29 PM
Just add it to yer crimbo wishlist.
herosrest
12-01-2008, 07:56 PM
Hedge Fund Sues Wall Street Journal
At a time when many in the industry and many regulators are pushing for greater transparency, SRM Global, which once managed US$3 billion, alleges that the newspaper published confidential information when it revealed in August that the fund has lost about 85% since inception. The case is set to go before a London court this week.
According to the Monaco-based fund’s lawsuit, the confidential performance data was given to a Journal reporter in London. The firm, founded by former star UBS trader Jonathan Wood in 2006, sought an injunction against the Journal to prevent its European edition from publishing two articles—“Woods Fund Takes A Beating”.......... :rolleyes: and............
http://www.finalternatives.com/node/6222
Yup - it is that time of year when the inured and most cynical of hearts dabble for a moment with their humanity and gush forth the most embarrasing embarrasments
er......... righto guv! Like we really, l mean, really gi' a to55! :x
Quote - "It began with Charlie Merrill's first rule that the Interests of the Customer always came first. It began with his partners' understanding that they were a Team and that no one's ego was more important than the team. It began with the knowledge that the primary assets of the firm went in and out of their door every day. They insisted on Respect for everyone. It began with an understanding that Merrill was part of a broader Community and that we had an obligation to support that community. It began with the simple belief that Integrity was everything and when a mistake was made, it was owned up to, corrected and never covered up. These principles of Charlie Merrill were passed to my father and then to Mike McCarthy, and subsequent CEOs and the culture endured because of the stories that were told to new Merrill Lynchers about our predecessors.
We knew the story of Charlie Merrill telling his clients to sell before the crash of 1929, of Don Regan testifying in Congress and saying 'We goofed' and then making the clients whole for our mistake. We..............."
Get me a hanky. Now! l can't take any more. Blub blub blub........... not a dry eye in the bowl......... http://z.about.com/d/freshaquarium/1/0/G/6/goldfish02.jpg
lt's a funny old world when goverment and it'a administration can provide a service more cheaply than lndustry - that is however the case with modern day credit finance. The middlemen, Banks are simply a hugely inefficient TAX that no one should put up with. A mass market that cuts cost to the core but offered as a 'premium, highly skilled and oh so profitable service'.
Everyone, like really, everyone, knows what to do with money. You save it. You spend it. A little of both makes the world go round and who needs the costs that the financiers impose - IT IS UTTERLY, WASTEFULLY, INNEFICIENT.
Contemptible redistribution. A tax that nobody needs, understands and truth be known - no body wants. A complete utter waste of resource.
herosrest
12-10-2008, 10:10 AM
Every one knows there is no sanity clause.
http://news.hereisthecity.com/cntns_media/hitcn/me_809.jpghttp://news.hereisthecity.com/cntns_media/hitcn/me_1103.jpg
This list may grow - rather swiftly.
The unexpected death last week of Alex Widmer, CEO of Bank Julius Baer, Switzerland's largest independent private bank, has given rise to speculation that it was a suicide.
also sad to report that Gavin Macdonald, Morgan Stanley's global head of M&A who suffered a heart attack at the firm's Canary Wharf HQ last Monday, died Friday. He was only 47.
OMG Analysts warn of a decline in corporate earnings (http://www.livemint.com/2008/12/25221718/Analysts-warn-of-a-decline-in.html) - Where's the nearest tall building.
Hang on though - this lot of analysts.con got everything else wrong for like - ever.....
even the big picture......... so ............. scrub the tall building.
Cappuccino anyone! ......................................... Oi! where's me bonus.
Look you dumb ship. Where's my bonus.
l won't tell you again! :D http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123024454933334077.html?mod=rss_markets_main
mireland
12-26-2008, 07:46 AM
oatmeal.
herosrest
01-07-2009, 09:25 AM
Why customers don't always come first (http://image.guardian.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/gallery/2001/06/20/PAjustice.gif)
President's Corporate Fraud Task Force Expands by Six New Agencies (http://www.nasdaq.com/aspxcontent/NewsStory.aspx?cpath=20090106/ACQRTT200901061444RTTRADERUSEQUITY_1156.htm&&mypage=newsheadlines&title=President's%20Corporate%20Fraud%20Task%20For ce%20Expands%20by%20Six%20New%20Agencies)
herosrest
01-11-2009, 04:33 PM
Capitalstool.com is not guaranteed to produce a bowel movement within 6-8 hours. Capitalstool.com's purpose is to present a point of view different from the norm, to inform, educate, and entertain. The disclaimer, "We don't know, and neither do they," means just that. Investing and trading are risky business, and no one has all the answers. Most pundits seem to be wrong most of the time, and this publication is no different. This publication does not recommend the purchase or sale of any securities. (Dr. Stool keeps his money in the mattress.) The opinions expressed herein are just that, opinions, not investment advice. Take what you see here, and in other media, with a grain of salt. Read and study, everything you can. Think. Use common sense. Then decide. You are on your own. If, like us, you don't know, find a competent pro to assist you. Good luck, have fun, and send feedback!
Where there's money, there's muck.
Usually shed loads that no-one can discover and wouldn't want to if they could.
mireland
01-11-2009, 08:24 PM
look hero my man..unless you post nude pikkis of Sarah Palin then be off with ya...:D
herosrest
01-12-2009, 04:35 PM
Mirelando.............. :rolleyes: , leave the donuts alone and go and take your own.
l'm sure the harrasment and peeper charges relating to harris - ing a high official (all be it a rapturous beauty) of state and government will, in your eyes, be small price to pay for obtaining the images you desire. They will make decent wall pin-ups, no doubt. No cell by date. :p
There is a piccie such as you require, of the desirable siren, currently doing the rounds. She is without cover and teasing a snowman. :x
Mirelando.............. :rolleyes: , leave the donuts alone and go and take your own.
l'm sure the harrasment and peeper charges relating to harris - ing a high official (all be it a rapturous beauty) of state and government will, in your eyes, be small price to pay for obtaining the images you desire. They will make decent wall pin-ups, no doubt. No cell by date. :p
There is a piccie such as you require, of the desirable siren, currently doing the rounds. She is without cover and teasing a snowman. :x
ok..I'm pumping my arm full of heroin and reading this..so as I can be sure to understand wtf you are saying...:rolleyes:
herosrest
01-13-2009, 08:02 PM
look hero my man..unless you post nude pikkis of Sarah Palin then be off with ya...
Mirelando.............. :rolleyes: , leave the donuts alone and go and take your own.
l'm sure the harrasment and peeper charges relating to harris - ing a high official (all be it a rapturous beauty) of state and government will, in your eyes, be small price to pay for obtaining the images you desire. They will make decent wall pin-ups, no doubt. No cell by date.
There is a piccie such as you require, of the desirable siren, currently doing the rounds. She is without cover and teasing a snowman.
http://www.pandia.com/graphics/faces155/detective.jpgYour snow melted! Little puddles everywhere.
ok..I'm pumping my arm full of heroin and reading this..so as I can be sure to understand wtf you are saying...
ok..I'm pumping my arm full of heroin and reading this..so as I can be sure to understand wtf you are saying...
Throwaway your kb. Git yerself and camera up to Alaska, where the walls have eyes,,,,,, erm, ice. ok.
You know, M, It's not H you need to comprehend my posts - just an educatiun. :rolleyes:
Yaz got twenty seconds to talk about..................... The Bald Eagle. :t
mireland
01-13-2009, 08:22 PM
Throwaway your kb. Git yerself and camera up to Alaska, where the walls have eyes,,,,,, erm, ice. ok.
You know, M, It's not H you need to comprehend my posts - just an educatiun. :rolleyes:
Yaz got twenty seconds to talk about..................... The Bald Eagle. :t
ok...the bald eagle. A majestic bird...tastes good too.
herosrest
01-17-2009, 05:42 PM
Kick-Start Economic Recovery!
When World War II began, auto makers shifted production to tanks and aircraft within a year. These changes required massive reorganization. Shifting to new energy conversion systems that require no fuel or recharge is infinitely less difficult. It only requires the determination to adapt to rapid change that can insure not merely the survival, but the blossoming of the industry, instead of its destruction.
With the surprisingly rapid pace of CO2 production, human survival on the planet is presently at stake. Myles Allen of Oxford University captures the essence of the situation in one sentence: “The danger zone is not something we’re going to reach in the middle of the century; we’re in it now.” It has been said: “What we do in the next two to three years will determine our future. This is the defining moment.”
Energy consumption is at the core of human existence. We must sharply accelerate development of new, cost-effective, sustainable alternatives. The combination of the power and auto industries has the potential to catalyze, with a kick start, a global economic recovery.
:t Conserve and be damned - Full speed ahead - **** the torpedo's.
TECHNOLOGY. TECHNOLOGY. TECHNOLOGY.
Oh yeah! TECHNOLOGY - HOUSING. CONSTRUCTION. POWER GENERATION. POWER DISTRIBUTION. LOGISTICS. RAW MATERIALS. SHIPPING. ALTERNATIVE ENERGY. ALTERNATE FINANCE. :D HOUSING REFURBISHMENT. POWER REGENERATION. FORGET THE PROFITS - THEY ARE A TAX ON PROGRESS. SHIP AHOY! (CORRECTION - THE P SHOULD READ T)
werz
01-17-2009, 07:37 PM
Conserve and be damned - Full speed ahead - **** the torpedo's.
TECHNOLOGY. TECHNOLOGY. TECHNOLOGY.
Oh yeah! TECHNOLOGY - HOUSING. CONSTRUCTION. POWER GENERATION. POWER DISTRIBUTION. LOGISTICS. RAW MATERIALS. SHIPPING. ALTERNATIVE ENERGY. ALTERNATE FINANCE. HOUSING REFURBISHMENT. POWER REGENERATION. FORGET THE PROFITS - THEY ARE A TAX ON PROGRESS. SHIP AHOY! (CORRECTION - THE P SHOULD READ T)
That wont work in the land of the perpetual free lunch.
Too many people think money that makes more money from thin air, is productive, and gambling on the rise and fall of stocks and currencies is a legitimate pass time.
The game is fixed for the big players, they can't lose because the taxpayers replace their loses.
herosrest
01-17-2009, 09:58 PM
Hmmm... Let me guess. You are a fan of Sitting Bull. :t :rolleyes::D
Jesus knew - his message is still alive. CLICK (http://members.fortunecity.com/nrbq1/gal6nail.jpg) http://tbn1.google.com/images?q=tbn:IS5tAKOrhc9rSM:http://members.fortunecity.com/nrbq1/gal6nail.jpg
2000 Years history in one li'l click. Yawn. (http://www.sysopt.com/forum/showpost.php?p=1455041&postcount=1)
THE ONLY PEOPLE WHO REALLY UNDERSTOOD JESUS'S MESSAGE - WERE THE MONEY LENDERS.
THEY HAD HIM KILLED.
AS with all obsessions, wealth - is an illness.
This paricular one breeds EVIL FROM the utter stupidity that is GREED.
Just the same as all these over large buggers (obese) who can't stop bunning their faeces. Poor things can't help it!
Mindless greed - The gamblers paradise ILLUSION - hope whilst true endevour lies shattered. It's the buzz not the result and dragging up to try again when it all blows up!
Like erm.... the last 18 months of credit crunching.
They think it's a recession.................. hohum :p
RISK IS GAMBLING - END OF STORY!
IT IS A DRUG. IT HOOKS PEOPLE.
IT DESTROYS.
Luddites.:rolleyes:
I don't mind people gambling, but don't give them my money, by selling toxic script, advertise as +AAA rated.
Drawing in the rest of the worlds economies, to cripple them along with your own.
Banks that can't float on their own shouldn't be helped with trillions of tax payers backed dollars.
If they have any collateral or are necessary to the economy, nationalize them, wipe the debt from the books, and if they become profitable again, repay the taxpayers/investors. Run them on strictly regulated guidelines, so this crisis can be avoided in the future.
The best way to do that is for you to keep republicans out of government. Not that the alternative is any better, but they're not as blatant at thieving.
herosrest
01-18-2009, 06:13 PM
http://pixdaus.com/pics/DFD3hLFPs58Bmm7ztZ.jpg
j.m@talk
01-18-2009, 06:19 PM
YEAH!
Lgbpop
01-18-2009, 06:49 PM
If you aren't smart enough to know where your own money is you don't deserve to have any. I wasn't aware that you invested in securities that couldn't pass a smell test, but it doesn't surprise me any. If you did, it's your own fault. No one forced you to part with your money, and despite your paranoia no one is manipulating your money behind your back. Money manipulation is being done, right in front of your blindered face.
Why do you think politicians spend so much money to acquire public office? It's the power they wield, and it knows no party restrictions. The liberals are the worst because the nominally "little-guy"-friendly legislation they pass is ultimately politician-friendly.
werz
01-19-2009, 01:23 PM
If you aren't smart enough to know where your own money is you don't deserve to have any. I wasn't aware that you invested in securities that couldn't pass a smell test, but it doesn't surprise me any. If you did, it's your own fault. No one forced you to part with your money, and despite your paranoia no one is manipulating your money behind your back. Money manipulation is being done, right in front of your blindered face.
I keep forgetting you know everything.
Although when we talked of the housing crisis you gave us a lecture on how much better and safer American mortgage companies were coz you had Freddie mac and Fannie Mai. And the value of housing wouldn't be affected.
Ah well.
Lgbpop
01-19-2009, 01:55 PM
I don't know everything, but a bit of common sense goes a long way. Sure is more sensible than the tripe you spew like an automaton. I don't recall ever being enamored about FM2, but I'm sure if I was you'll oblige and find the quotes for me. Frankly, it would be rather uncharacteristic of a free-market militant like me to fall back on a government boondoggle but I can admit it if and when I'm wrong. It certainly doesn't happen often, old man.:D
herosrest
01-19-2009, 04:42 PM
lf you hand someone a decent, even lucrative, living and keep them on a string - things tend to hum along nicely. When you hand them your entire cookey jar to feast on, things will not go well. Then, when it turns out you keep-safe the keys to your vault in the bottom of that cookie jar, only disaster will follow.
j.m@talk
01-19-2009, 04:47 PM
lf you hand someone a decent, even lucrative, living and keep them on a string - things tend to hum along nicely.
Thats just not Tennis Dennis ......... Well George on this particular occasion. (Tennison didn't get where he is today by rewarding people fairly)
Luckily Uncle Barack is gonna come & sort it all out :)
herosrest
01-19-2009, 04:50 PM
Yup, looks like we're in for a Baracking.
j.m@talk
01-19-2009, 04:54 PM
Ya see Panorama tonight ?.......... Looks like its truly needed
That osser on orse back needed shootin' ........... Diggin' up & shootin' again
herosrest
01-19-2009, 04:58 PM
missed it, clue us up................
j.m@talk
01-19-2009, 05:08 PM
Bout the healthcare time bomb thats exploding over there ..... http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/img/iplayer_logo.gif (http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b00gvflg/Panorama_What_Now_Mr_President/) << Click
herosrest
01-19-2009, 07:46 PM
Oil falls below $35 - Hala effin luya! and it's still way over-priced.
They should let her keep it, as long as she stays in Alaska.
werz
01-20-2009, 03:28 PM
If you aren't smart enough to know where your own money is you don't deserve to have any. I wasn't aware that you invested in securities that couldn't pass a smell test, but it doesn't surprise me any. If you did, it's your own fault. No one forced you to part with your money, and despite your paranoia no one is manipulating your money behind your back. Money manipulation is being done, right in front of your blindered face.
Why do you think politicians spend so much money to acquire public office? It's the power they wield, and it knows no party restrictions. The liberals are the worst because the nominally "little-guy"-friendly legislation they pass is ultimately politician-friendly.
I've been to the bank and told them not to invest any of my money in anything from America.
That should stop me getting ripped off.
j.m@talk
01-20-2009, 03:38 PM
Dummy/Pacifier well & trooooly SPAT! :D
herosrest
01-20-2009, 05:08 PM
I've been to the bank and told them not to invest any of my money in anything from America.
That should stop me getting ripped off.
Good lord! - enlightenment.
So now you will be able to sue them for diddly squillions unless they divest you of us holdings.
herosrest
01-25-2009, 09:16 PM
Capitalism accumalates and manages wealth. The idea and concept is second nature to any responsible person. Practise of the concept is fundamentally flawed. Unpicking that flaw solves all the advanced nations current economic disshevelments in short order. The changes required 'challenge' business practise and attack an incumbent mindset.
There is a problem with economic practice - the cause of recent havoc. lndividuals, business, conglomerates and nations all garner 'nest eggs' which ACCUMULATE. No one in their right minds will give them up - That is the problem.
The accumulation of capital is unending and the search for ways to protect and grow the huge sums have become quite esoteric.
When a person retires from work, their pension fund must be liquidated and passed to them in cash. That will spin a few heads.
Take the USA........ as an example. Assume, working life is 50 years. 2% of the gross pension fund is liquidated each year and returned those retiring. That cash flows through the banking current account and watch the economic boom that ensues. There is no worry about inflation it is real wealth. A virtuous circle. There is no down side.
in liquidating a holding - solid, top class investments are passed on to those looking for investment opportunity - and da world goes round and round and round. Pappa got a brand new stash......!
There are incredibly large - huge - amounts of lnvestment funding just sloshing around looking for the quick 'buck' and deflating the world. Easy Money.
Anybody, anywhere, who thinks that is an efficient let alone honest or bright/clever way to run things - really should build a nice little mound of sand and enjoy themselves burying their head.
You were raped now it's happening again! :D
Bummer, ain't it. Seem like such nice people as well.
Ho hum! They stuck it in yer ................ Bank Account. :p
When you hear defence - 'Market forces - it's market forces.. man.'
Ask.. What market? Honestly, l ask you. What market. The Bazaar?
herosrest
01-27-2009, 02:01 AM
Here's a cool piccie. (http://www.goodearthgraphics.com/virtcave/ice_formations/hexagonal%20ice.jpg)
Reasons, HERE (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/7852275.stm) and HERE (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/7851415.stm) why Iceland is renaming AS CRASHLAND. (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/7851825.stm"From stable to unstable in................. less than, erm........ 18 months. No. 12 months. No.
6 months. Closer................. 4 months.
herosrest
01-27-2009, 02:18 AM
It might be time to forget about profits, banish stock returns and insist managers simply balance expense and stop dreaming about bonus. :p Which should work both ways and claw back. Same with stock holders and their obligations which extend far, far beyond take the money and run to the nearest party or beach or Hedge Fund.
herosrest
01-27-2009, 02:58 AM
It is very easy with hindsight to be correct and clever. So i'll point this up now.
The brightest and best minds tend simply to find brilliant means to screw up when their knee's are jerking through unknown territory.
If, for example, a major economy, experiencing serious contraction, decides to pump in a couple of trillion to turn it around - why not just divide that couple of trillion by the size of population and give it to consumers. That is the heart, root and base of the problem and......................... they are paying for it anyway.
People aren't and can't spend to buy the goods that make the business profits.
What is the point of handing a fortune to businesses - it defies logic -
and yet that is how everyone is thinking. l know - go stand in the corner stupid. :(
j.m@talk
01-27-2009, 06:04 AM
I could do wiv a few trillion ....... Ones Merc needs a oil change :rolleyes:
j.m@talk
01-27-2009, 06:07 AM
Could have a march too & lobby the govt to resign .......... All together now "Bring back W" ....."Bring back W" ....."Bring back W" ..... That'll lern the ferkers..... Here have another 4 :D
http://www.customtractsource.com/thumbnail.asp?file=assets/images/ShowcaseImages/Showcase-MillionRoosevelt-Front.jpg&maxx=300&maxy=0 (http://www.customtractsource.com/) ;) Here are some fine lines.http://tbn2.google.com/images?q=tbn:G-aGIR3aPzO-LM:http://www.blogtalkradio.com/pics/hostpics/4822_deathvalley_0046.jpg (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Line_of_credit)
IN GOD WE TRUST.... it is written........ on grave stones and paper money. Or should be
Finance ME! - :rolleyes: - It just might work! :r (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/09/Banknotes.jpg/800px-Banknotes.jpg)
herosrest
01-28-2009, 09:34 AM
TIN HAT, ANYONE? - http://www.the-privateer.com/front.html
Put any word you like - quantitative, qualitative or anything else - in front of it. All that does is to attempt to obscure the fact that central banks in the US and everywhere else are "easing". They are desperately trying to set up conditions where voluntary borrowing will once again put a floor under the credit money system. The problem is that the more they "ease", the more reluctant the borrowers become.
In the latter half of last year, the world went though an excruciating period of "deleveraging" as desperate attempts were made to pay down debt. That, combined with capital repatriation led by the US forced the US Dollar upward. Towards the end of the year, there was a desperate stampede into perceived safety as any financial "asset" which was not government "guaranteed" was shunned. That brought interest rates on US Treasury debt down to historic lows, and prices to historic highs. Hence - the LAST bubble.
In recent years, people the world over have watched as companies such as Enron, Parmalat, and Hollinger International have fallen prey to the financial misdeeds of crooked executives.
The stories of these organisations and their tumbles from greatness are symptomatic of what some believe to be a continuing trend of dishonesty in business. Accountants are often faced with the choice of being part of this global problem or part of the solution.
100 investors in six hedge funds (TAX dodging of course), valued $300m, found $1m left. (http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/fraud-suspects-held-as-fbi-swoops-on-finance-world-1517860.html) -
I wonder who is going to bail out these 100+ idiots and their ?? losses ?? - 'ave a guess.
Madoff lost 50 Billion, and apart from some dodgy suicides, no one seems to be starving
to death yet - even invested Fund managers are still collecting Bonus! (http://parrots4parties.com/images/prop-party/gallows.jpg)
j.m@talk
01-28-2009, 05:32 PM
The teacher's point was about obedience - the real subtlety here is....................
A nation trained to follow and OBEY fools. :t
I have a blatant disregard for authority too :-@
herosrest
01-28-2009, 05:36 PM
Bet ya lookin' fer a Bonus though. Sir JM. :D
herosrest
01-29-2009, 08:48 PM
Qu’elle surprise! (http://www.investorschronicle.co.uk/Companies/ByEvent/BoardroomNews/default/article/20090129/fbe49596-ed5d-11dd-bc23-00144f2af8e8/Oil-executives-banking-on-a-crude-spurt.jsp) Oil executives banking on a crude spurt - There was an increased incidence of directors buying en masse over the last week, with the average deal size for acquisitions hovering around the £38,000 mark, which is £9,000 short of the comparable figure from last year. Directors from resource companies again account for many of the larger deals, but there has been a noticeable lack of commitment from directors within financial services. Whether this situation will change following the reporting season remains to be seen, but it would surely send out a much-needed signal to beleaguered shareholders.
Couldn't have anything what so ever in the least to do with the prospect of bumper earnings and pay out per share on the horizon now, could it. Can anyone define for me the term - Inside trading please! There will of course be perfectly reasonable motive.
Ha! Ha!. Look - it's pink and it flew!
werz
01-30-2009, 05:55 AM
I don't know if you posted this list of crooks and incompetent appointments.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2009/jan/26/road-ruin-recession-individuals-economy
herosrest
01-30-2009, 03:20 PM
$80 oil price 'key to future' (http://www.gulf-daily-news.com/Story.asp?Article=241569&Sn=BUSI&IssueID=31316)
There are insane people in this world who insist on being taken seriously.
It seems quite a few of them actually run the place.
So....like, ya pay wildly inflated prices for a basic crude raw material, like top dollar and more. Trillions a YEAR overpriced, just to borrow it back under terms that cripple consumer economy's and allow the kind of mayhem that goes on now. Grow up - the lot of ya!
You would most certainly be one to know, being as how you spend so much time plucking and clucking and waiting yourself for yer own tawny to be pulled by the handfull. Let's all hope some poor bright eyed soul obliges you soon. Shortly even. For truly, yay, thou art one niggling, nagging, assemblage of twippery and bluster. Me old cocker spaniel.......... aaaaaaaaaaaaargh!. Go pump up yer parrot.
Do click. (http://www.nosignaltv.com/)
herosrest
01-30-2009, 06:41 PM
Floggin' allright :t
Flogging is a quaint English term that relates the act of exchange for readies on the part of the floggee, who may or may not hold ownership or rights to the item flogged. The term further carries minor attribution for forms of flagellation and self inflicted deeds of abusion to items such as expired Equus caballus and their hinds - which may or may not be golden and in royal service, channeling castanets beyond treasured shores. Avast behind may cushion your days and fill your nights with the whipping so assuredly deserved - Yankee doodle........ Dandie......... sounds ........SO........ very .........painful. :D:t
Hoist one, me bucko! http://www.kingofswords.co.nz/buttons/jolly_roger.gif (http://wanderfully.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2008/06/ttt-blog-2-sexy-tango-dancers.jpg)
Play this while yaz 'ave a read. http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=xovjZxtDyeA&NR=1
Davos, Jan.30: Concerned by the worldwide economic slowdown, Union Commerce and Industry Minister Kamal Nath has urged the international community to join hands for more efforts to liberalise the global economy in order to stimulate growth, save jobs and enhance living standards. http://www.sysopt.com/forum/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.dailyindia.com/show/294549.php)
Undoubtably a wonderful and noble defence of Free Trade virtues and yet those high esteemed desires are wrecked upon the shore of immorality that has become business practise.
Actuarial value is a mathematical calculation, often of the financial condition of a pension plan. It includes the computation of the present monetary value of benefits payable to present members, and the present monetary value of future employer and employee contributions, factoring in mortality among active and retired members and also to the rates of disability, retirement, withdrawal from service, salary and interest. It is the value of cash, investments, and other property belonging to a pension plan, as used by the actuary for the purpose of an actuarial valuation. The actuarial value of assets may represent an average value over time, and normally differs from the amount reported in the financial statements, which is a measurement as of the date of the statement of net assets.
For example, the actuarial value is defined for most Minnesota public pension plans as the value of assets at cost plus one third of the difference between the cost value and the market value. Also referred to as "current assets."
This is of little interest to vast swathes of population but is a key to modern day existence.
This Article http://www.sysopt.com/forum/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://************.com/p/articles/mi_qa3714/is_200401/ai_n9368521) presents a new interpretation of the holding in Ithaca Trust: while the Supreme Court rejected valuation based on post-death facts, it only did so in the context of valuation determined by actuarial tables.
Again, of little interest to vast swathes of population - However - it illustrates wonderfully how legal concept and precedent underlie our system of trade. Further it is example of the Justice 'intended' to underly basic conduct and process thus derived to ensure such.:D :rolleyes: Say what.................. :confused: A court, ultimately has decided how and what your pension and investments should be worth in a free economy. It is utter bollox as practised today. The case quoted in the related link is an interesting piece of work in its own right, actually. A landmark issue. Anyways - the value of a very significant personal asset, your home, depends on the bunch of pirates who are robbing the system blind with a nudge and a wink. They hold unbridled control of prices. FATAL ERROR.
l repeat from another post (blowing in the wind - l know - property value has a specific, measured and trusted value, quite divorced from market forces. Whilst the property and building industries behave and conduct themselves as business, home owners do not and should not be at the whim and cry of business ethics and practise.A considerable number of the brightest and best are currently struggling with the problem of value and valuation. What is a property worth?
Its real actual independant value. independant of market forces and absolutely reliable and trustworthy.
Of course there are market rules and ability to pay apply.
Beyond that, however is the cost of replacement - what is the rebuild or lnsurance.
A very real (TRUE and measurable) and bankable valuation. Which nobody can deny. Which nobody can deny. For he's a..............
Some bad link borrocks occured in't previous post - sort it l will shortly. Censor script blanked part of the url.
A point, amongst several to be made - if you are mortgaged, that mortgage, through stocks also derivatives, is traded on the stockmarket. Your property is traded on the stock market. It is a legal point that can be argued. That does not change the fact.
Did anyone telling you all about your mortgage tell you that, is it even part of the contract.
Do you know who has got their finger up your bum or why have they! :D
mireland
01-30-2009, 08:09 PM
http://www.fancysplace.com/smileys/ohsnap1.gif
herosrest
01-30-2009, 08:11 PM
U guessed it - i'm bored. What's that thing over in the corner behind you?
herosrest
01-30-2009, 08:17 PM
Not really sure why this tripped the dreaded 8 Ball ******** blanker - try again
well it's - find articles - without the space. How very, very, very, odd.
you're @ss has been censored...:t
herosrest
01-30-2009, 08:23 PM
woops................ nearly bowled a googlie. (blush)
herosrest
01-30-2009, 08:34 PM
This is cool - serious, real world, life and death issues.............. Click (http://www.actuary.com/actuarial-discussion-forum/showthread.php?t=4021) Just yer everyday, run of the mill stuff..... :p
Quote - "I have a similar valuation problem. Did you ever get an answer as to how to establish a value for your uncle's li................. "
j.m@talk
01-30-2009, 08:45 PM
Its Acre thats what it is :D
herosrest
01-30-2009, 08:49 PM
January 28, 2009
IMF - Global Financial Stability Report (http://www.imf.org/External/Pubs/FT/fmu/eng/2009/01/index.htm) - Going forward, banks will need even more capital as expected losses continue to mount. On a global basis, estimates are quite difficult to construct, but for European and U.S. banks, (including their exposure to assets domiciled not only in the United States, but also in Europe and emerging markets), our rough estimates for expected writedowns during 2009 and 2010, partly offset by the anticipated revenues over the same period, would result in a net capital shortfall in the order of magnitude of at least half a trillion dollars. This implies that for U.S. and European banks taken together such an amount in new capital is necessary just to prevent their capital position from deteriorating further. Moreover, additional capital injections, together with forceful measures to clean up banks’ balance sheets of troubled assets will be required to raise the level of confidence in the banking system.
Hedge funds and mutual funds have also been hit hard, experiencing losses of assets under management as investors shift to safer asset classes. The combination of asset price declines and redemptions suggest the hedge fund balance sheets shrank by about half in the last quarter of 2008, a particular concern for those markets in which hedge funds provided a significant proportion of market trading liquidity.
herosrest
01-30-2009, 08:59 PM
Go on........... here's yer bonus (http://parrots4parties.com/images/prop-party/gallows.jpg)
herosrest
01-30-2009, 09:25 PM
S'ok (http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=kuvPBjrHISI)
Turn your volume up quite loud Click above and sing along wiv da chorus. http://www.sysopt.com/forum/images/smilies/wink.gif (http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=BzpjTWW-70k&feature=related)
herosrest
01-30-2009, 09:40 PM
Property value was not defended when it was easy to do and it is now virtually impossible with this system. It is flawed, ferked! as we low life say, by those who took control of it - the rules must change. Slow steady growth. :t
herosrest
01-31-2009, 05:53 PM
http://www.myhero.com/images/artist/houdini/ropebw2.jpg (http://www.myhero.com/myhero/hero.asp?hero=houdini) Now you see it, now you don't.
How to make things vanish so l can be important and play wonderful games with peoples lives and wealth.
The matter linked here http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/img/global/tol-logo.gif (http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/money/property_and_mortgages/article5626225.ece) reveals the basic confidence trick upon which Finance trades - lt's the way of things. This Business concept is 'exactly that' and exists for business.
No-one, involved in financing a property loan can be allowed to value the assets concerned, because............... the get up their own backsides and mess people about for profits. The concepts revealed in the Times article, display a contrived and blatant Conflict of interest which is quite astounding! Any one trying to defend the Banks position belongs outside decent society.Property value was not defended when it was easy to do and it is now virtually impossible with this system. It is flawed, ferked! as we low life say, by those who took control of it - the rules must change. Slow steady growth. :tWhat is a property worth? Its real actual, independant value. It is worth its cost of replacement - the rebuild or lnsurance. Independant of market forces and absolutely reliable and trustworthy. A very real (TRUE and measurable) and bankable valuation. Which nobody can deny or pi55 around with, regardless of market rules and ability to pay.
This http://www.gulf-news.com/business/Investment/10280919.html is an interesting read - just for the nuts and bolts of Draw Down - which is a problem rebuild or lnsurance valuation addresses directly in todays soup of the day. A 5 year old designed our banking system and then went off to school.
herosrest
01-31-2009, 06:37 PM
Thousands poised for 8p-a-month mortgages. (http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/money/property_and_mortgages/article5622453.ece)
Don't worry Chaps........ you'll still get Bonus (http://parrots4parties.com/images/prop-party/gallows.jpg). :confused:
これを見ないでください。これを見ないでください。これ
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/multimedia/archive/00472/Auction_hammer_185x_472593a.jpg (http://obama.wsj.com/article/05qk6Mf5rdebV?q=Timothy+F.+Geithner)
mireland
01-31-2009, 06:52 PM
this thread would make good toilet reading material. :t
Why? - does................. abiliy to pay for loans, mortgages, petrol even - affect the price and alter the 'value' of a property. There is no reason - it is all mumbo jumbo. Utter, total, complete cods wallop. lt is a deeply misplaced act of trust as insane as those who took advantage of it!
Ability to take on and maintain a loan is in no way related to the value of any property anywhere on earth. That is however how the entire world of Finance think and is why the brilliant but flawed introduction of derivative asset trading has allowed a bunch of yahoo's to plunder the combined total value of housing markets. Daylight robbery took place and people don't even understand it, especially those making sure it shouldn't have been possible.
.......and of course.. who's going to own up to a coc-kup like this. :p
Put a floor under property price by insisting lnstitutions base valuations upon rebuild insurance cost on their Booked Valuations - ASSETS. A real and honest valuation. (lt is not a market price - it is a bedrock valuation). Solve the borrowers short term repayment problems any way possible and then the risk of toxic-loans assumed by governments will be ZERO and the whole kit and cabboodle can carry on as before - this time with government knowing wtf is going on. The gross valuation of property is a bedrock upon which our economy's cannot falter. Then lock up these thieving, smarmy, two-faced gits who are not worth scraping off our shoes if we step on them. Then sort out a real and advantageous oil price for 18 months (ie(very, very, very low) and let heavy industry rip into turning away from fossil fuel. The world will still need oil, just, not us.
Unfortunately this li'l scheme has the side effect of destroying, exposed Short Traders................. how sad. A simple little rule change on monday morning should do it.
mireland
01-31-2009, 10:01 PM
look...all this ranting isn't going to change anything..LOL...however if this keeps you from becoming a drug dealer then by all means vent...:t
herosrest
01-31-2009, 10:08 PM
Genie... Bottle.............. ooh look!
Ain't ranting M.. l utterly detest gamblers and their mentality, nowadays we have a bunch of clowns doing it with the entire worth of the planet..
mireland
01-31-2009, 10:11 PM
Genie... Bottle.............. ooh look!
Ain't ranting M.. l utterly detest gamblers and their mentality, nowadays we have a bunch of clowns doing it with the entire worth of the planet..
well, you've made this thread your humble but comfortable home...enjoy. :t
werz
02-01-2009, 05:36 AM
Does Gordon Brown know?
herosrest
02-01-2009, 12:55 PM
A first year law student can prove the valuation case in 5 minutes, beyond all doubt and argument.
In his argument Curly said: "Which man would you believe, the
man who is trying to raise wheat for the people to get flour
and bread from, oats to feed his horses, who builds a house
for the shelter and preservation of his family, builds a stable
in which to shelter his horses, tills the soil to get the product,
trying to raise vegetables so that his people may have some-
thing to eat in summer and winter, or the man who Would come
along and run over this man who was working and trying to
do something for his family, and would not work himself,
but just run around and make a renegade of himself, quarrel-
ling with his mother and brothers — which man would you
believe? A man who quarrels with his mother is not fit for
any duty." Gems like these would grace any brightest
page of literature, but they are the everyday eloquence of
the Indian.
Curly said regarding his early life: "When I was a boy
I did not do much. I was not crazy, but I did not run into
mischief. My father and mother always advised me not
to get into mischief. My first remembrance of the white
man was when I took the skins of buffalo calves into the trad-
ing stores and traded with the white man. I thought that
was a great thing to do. I had been many times on the trail
of the buffalo and had sought opportunity to go on the war-
path." (Battlefield survivor - June 1876)
mireland
02-01-2009, 03:46 PM
:t
herosrest
02-02-2009, 04:58 AM
Hi M. Howdee doo dee.......... :t
__________________________________________________ _______________
l have mentioned accumulation previously
- it is easily dismissed in many ways for many many reasons.
lt offers, however a valid and accurate assessment of a global problem.
ln the same vain, current credit problems, affecting global markets are
the result of a flawed design. The ability of an individual or entity to pay
for goods and services has very little, in fact absolutely nothing, to do with
the value of the goods or service provided. When the item marketed is,
lets say, a bar of chocolate, then all sorts of very clever and valuable
assessments can be made in regard earning a return from that
bar of chocolate. Unfortunately, finance people tend not to be picked
the brightest hanging on the apple tree and have an incredible herd
instinct fueled by weekday afternoons and evenings in lap dance bars.
There is no financial relationship between 'ability to pay' and the
'value of' a property. This applies equally to commercial property.
A building has a set cost at construction and an adjusting current value of replacement.
Every property loan, every one of them, insist on an insurance valued to rebuild the property.
That i'm affraid, who ever you are, no matter how important or clever, that is the value of that property.
The idea that several hundred tons of building can be worth 20% less or more in a weeks time is INSANE.
Just as insane as the mumbo jumbo that has allowed ability to pay be equated with the value
of the asset guaranteeing a loan.
That financial people can get confused enough to produce this type of logic is......... annoying.
Then, they are actually really annoying little jumped up types.
Banking is a fringe service industry that got up its own backside with self importance.
That an entire industry has been allowed to explode around a flawed concept of value is quite incredible.
Derivative trading remains a very clever and worthwhile contribution to the general good of all.
Its implementation was incorrect and then mis-managed in the frontline.
The greed of people within the financial industry got the better of common sense.
There is further an outright criminal element at work in all of this.
An individuals abilty to pay for a house has UTTERLY nothing to do with the value of the house.
If people cannot afford that house then they are poor ot the house is overpriced to sell.
That does not change the value of the house. lt might affect the price asked to sell it,
but that does not change the value of having to rebuild the funking thing.
It's insurance or rebuild value is that houses real, actual, unarguable valuation as insisted
upon by anyone using it as an asset to guaratee a loan.
Closed minds think in tiny little circles and cause the kind of problems that exist with economy's today.
l ain't wrong nor am l an idiot.
Twisted logic has been at work and caused a nasty mess. lt is very simple to resolve.
Fiscal stimulus is a necessary palliative for a
debt-encumbered economy afflicted by falling
asset prices. But the likely longevity and scale
of the needed fiscal deficits are quite scary. - By Martin Wolf - FT.Com Columnist.
Asset valuation is not a black art. Market pundits and insiders think value is a function of ability to pay. If this were true, they would ensure affordability. They do not and rather to squeeze ROI(Return on Investment) and ROE(Return on Equity) until eyes pop and water. Profit unbridled, (unreasonable reward), is THEFT. If a prospect cannot afford an item they are lent the neccesary funds subject to ability to pay. lf the item of desire is overpriced that does not affect its value. lt may alter the sale price but not the value of the item. Harry Houdini in a very expensive suit is at work and hey presto the assets value has been destroyed. But, it is only a paper exercise subject to a set of accounting rules that are from the stone age. Destroying asset value, destroys equity and liquidity. Because return is based over the short term but loans over a quarter century nothing but pain ensues.
Shortly before Crimbo, astute Hedge Fund and lnvestment Banks wanted change in the accounting rules of asset valuations. This is neccesary and urgently required, however, asset valuations must now be utterly independant of the Lenders and in fact the entire Finance Industry. When the seriousness of problems 'first' emerged, those responsible did not defend 'their asset's' value and can never be trusted with that responsibility again.
The problem that exists is with under funded borrowers. They are the problem to address with dirt cheap contingency loans, 'mortgage term' credit lines and security of asset value. The Finance lndustry doesn't know its **** from its elbow other than unscrupulous profitrearing by blinded and fat cats who really should be put out at night. Their defence of shareholder value and return is a 'red card' offence. Accepted behaviour is the problem - Rules must change.
herosrest
02-02-2009, 04:23 PM
It seems timely to resurrect this Americanism from the 1930s - one of many evocative words the United States has contributed to the English language, says Harold Evans. There is a neat tale HERE (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/7861397.stm).
It is harsh, very harsh, to be critical of politicians overseeing the balancing act between wealth creation and broader responsibility. Boom and BUST must end just as naughty children really must be spanked, HARD! http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/7861397.stm
herosrest
02-02-2009, 04:58 PM
He's got a poiny, ya know.
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/3ec9b846-e8bd-11dd-a4d0-0000779fd2ac.html
However, why go through all that pain when you know, it will work itself out over
the medium term anyway with a little seed corn tiding over those with the real problems.
Borrowers. Extend and invest in them. That is the bottom line.
Stop reinforcing disaster.
The daylight robbery that has gone on as reward and enticement to investors was a BIG stupid.
Raw material is overpriced throughout the world and generating surplus in all the wrong places.
herosrest
02-02-2009, 05:36 PM
Anyone and everyone connected with Finance will generally or specifically disagree the entirity of this topic's threads. That is because they visited Earth from a planet far, far away to party for a while and pi55 on everyone.
herosrest
02-02-2009, 06:33 PM
Don't have to believe me.............. here are Bill and Melinda (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/davos/7860708.stm).
You know......... The Gates. Polite insight from people in the know. :t
BBC page has a decent video interview for those that can get it.
Bill Gates, the world's richest philanthropist, said the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation has lost one fifth of its value in the current crisis. Despite his prediction that it could be as much as four years before many economies see growth again, he insisted the fundamentals ___:confused:___ of the global economic system were sound . Capitalism, he said, had led to incredible opportunity and innovation Oh yeah! (http://content.ytmnd.com/content/3/7/7/37740742f9c86ec075ccf93e27183e34.jpg), and when in five to 10 years, a new upward trend is established, he believed advances in medicine, genetics and software would drive new growth.
We worshiped in the temple of cutthroat competition,
and so some cooked the books,
because the treasure is so great.
Desmond Tutu, South African Archbishop
Davos finds no answers to crisis
The World Economic Forum has ended with a call to rebuild the global economic system. Founder Klaus Schwab announced a "global redesign initiative" to reform banking, regulation and corporate governance. For five days, more than 2,000 business and political leaders discussed what some here called the "crisis of capitalism". However, most discussions described the problems, not solutions. The forum's official theme this year had been "shaping the post-crisis world", but that turned out to be premature.
Rather, the debates proved the widespread uncertainty amongst both politicians and corporate bosses, as they tried to gauge the depth of the economic crisis and explore ways how to get out of it. Nobody in Davos tried to refute the prediction that the global economy is heading into a deep and long recession. One top money market manager said: "If you believe that the world economy will turn the corner at the end of this year, or in [the first quarter] of 2010, I tell you we have not turned the corner, we can't see the corner, we don't even know where the corner is."Another participant summed up the state of the discussion as "we don't know what to do, only that we need to do something and we need to do it fast".
With the old certainties of the free market gone, even free marketeers accepted the need for more regulation, quick.
Professor Schwab said the current situation was a perfect example of where banks could take the lead and devise a system of self-regulation,................ you read that, yeah! - read it again......... Professor Schwab said the current situation was a perfect example of where banks could take the lead and devise a system of self-regulation,
OK....... http://www.thetrickery.com/ama/med/straitjacket_new1.jpg
Go on! - Tell me i'm wrong.
Think Tools AG was a Swiss IT company that characterized the dot com bubble in Europe. The company was founded by the philosopher Albrecht von Müller as a consultancy company in 1993. In the company's IPO on March 24, 2000, at the peak of the dot com bubble, the shares were emitted at SFr 270. On the first trading day the share price peaked at SFr 1050, driven by investor excitement generated by the company's connections to the World Economic Forum and promises that the company will play a central role in transferring the world to knowledge economy through the software tools the company claimed to be developing. The peak share price corresponded to a market valuation of SFr 2.52 billion.
Controversies........... there were a few.
Klaus Martin Schwab (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Klaus_Schwab)
Books (http://search.barnesandnoble.com/BookSearch/results.asp?ATH=Klaus+Schwab)
SysOpt.com
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