Core Voltage question

[socalgal]

Once each the past three nights, my Motherboard Monitor Core 0 Voltage alarm has sounded, indicating a 5% off my 2.0 Core Voltage setting in BIOS. Looking at MoboMon shows 2.02.. and once I release the alarm it won't go off again (til the next night).

What is this indicating and do I have a potential problem? Or is MoboMon being funky all of a sudden - other stats seem accurate. Just started about 3 nights ago...

PIII 450 @527
Abit BX6-2
256mgs PC100-222-620 CasL 2 set to CasL 3
ATX 250w ps

Thanks for your thoughts! http://www.sysopt.com/forum/smile.gif

[This message has been edited by socalgal (edited 01-06-2000).]

[smokin1]

I too have had the same problem with Mobo Monitor and it didn't appear to have any
direct relation to what was actually going on..I rebooted and checked the voltage in the bios (BE6) and all was normal. I finally got frustrated with the program and "lost" it..My personal thoughts are that it doesn't work all that well on some BX based boards...btw..this was over 2 months ago and no "meltdown"...bios still reads 2.0v (with slight variations)....so..if your bios shows a different number...you may not have cause for any worry..
3c (Cdn)
http://www.sysopt.com/forum/smile.gif

[BEOR999]

My guess, and that's all it is, is this could be a power spike, if you don't have a surge protector, then think about getting one, or replace the VRM on the mobo.

[socalgal]

Hi DrVette, thanks for your reply!

I'm in Southern CA, the temps the last couple of nights have been "cold" - but not less than 40* I would say. It could be my building - it's older.

Also, I just heard that a voltmeter to check my mobo wouldn't work - too slow. I'd have to use an oscilloscope... that doesn't seem viable at this point.

I want to make sure my mobo is ok and doesn't fry anything... :/

[This message has been edited by socalgal (edited 01-07-2000).]

[richamies]

Personally, I wouldnt be too concerned about this. If the board was being over-volted they tend to either shut down or reboot, not intentionally, but they just do. Like if you over-volt your processor(do any of us do that on purpose? http://www.sysopt.com/forum/smile.gif) and it gets too far, the pc will either hang or just reboot, possibly staying on a black screen just before firing up the BIOS.
If the psu was kicking out 3.3v instead of 2v(I find this highly doubtful) then the board would shut down. If a psu develops a fault, it is normally a much larger one(i.e dumping 220vac down the mobo - or 110 in USA) and I have seen this happen before.
I wouldnt recommend getting a voltage probe on *ANY* of those connections, whilst we all know what we are doing, it really is best left to the experts. In order for a multimeter to function it has to be creating resistance and unfortunately, motherboards can be quite precise in their tolerances.
Worst case scenario is that the psu is pumping too many volts out, and it kills your mobo and your processor. I *really* don't think that is going to happen. If your psu was pumping significantly over 2v the processor would be overheating, unless you have placed it in a fridge http://www.sysopt.com/forum/smile.gif
The VRM unit could be a possibility - I'm not so up on all these different types of board, or where the voltage sensors are placed. It would be logical to assume the sensor is located somewhere after the VRM.
When the system is apparently over-volting, does the cpu temp rise at all? That might be worth keeping an eye on. Normally, if a cpu is overvolted it doesnt do any real long term damage, unless it has had a large amount pumped into it. I doubt a P3 could take over 3 volts without super cooling, and even then I would never run it that high for any length of time.
Personally, I would be looking at the possibility of a faulty voltage sensor/VRM failiure. Keep an eye on it, in real terms 0.05v extra is only 2.5% too much, and we have seen many processors running long term at this voltage and beyond. In real terms the risks are not huge.

Now watch the bloody thing set on fire tomorrow http://www.sysopt.com/forum/wink.gif no more meeting up for me lol

[socalgal]

Hi richamies, thanks for your explanation.

Yea, I'm a worrywort when it comes to my 'baby'. http://www.sysopt.com/forum/smile.gif I haven't been seeing any abnormal temp fluctuations (again, if I can rely on MoboMon for a correct reading) and also no spontaneous reboots or problems of that nature.

I'm nowhere near any kind of electronics expert, so voltage probing is out for me.

Re the psu pumping out too many volts, I don't think that's happening as the temp seems pretty stable. I will keep an eye on this.

I'll keep MoboMon running so when the alarm occurs again, I can see if there's any temp spike as well (if I can count on MoboMon relaying reliable info).

When you say keep an eye for a faulty voltage sensor/VRM, do you mean the same as keeping an eye on the temp when the voltage alarm goes off? If not, how do I "keep an eye on it"?

Thanks again. And thanks to all of you who replied!

http://www.sysopt.com/forum/smile.gif


[This message has been edited by socalgal (edited 01-07-2000).]

[richamies]

IMHO...

If the cpu is overheating, then I would suspect the VRM.

If the cpu isn't overheating, but you continue to get these warnings, I would suspect the sensor.

These are just my opinions, formed from the knowledge I have gained from being interested in computers, and messing with them and (ahem) fixing them. It all seems to work with my line of logic and reasoning, but I am NOT an electronics guru, nor Compaq/IBM/whatever certified.

But I wouldn't suggest something if I didnt have faith in it. If anyone out there DOES know what is happening, then take their word over mine as mine is based upon MY experiences, and it has not been taught to me. I have learned from what I have seen, with very little help from anyone. But I have faith in my opinions, and so have my employers so I don't think I should be too far out http://www.sysopt.com/forum/smile.gif.

[socalgal]

Ok, I will do that richamies. http://www.sysopt.com/forum/smile.gif I will keep both eyes on the temp. I appreciate your getting back with me and I do feel a little less worried than earlier. http://www.sysopt.com/forum/smile.gif

I borrowed a Voltmeter and am going test the outlet that the surge protector is plugged into... might as well check the surge protector too while I'm at it!

[richamies]

I don't know if that will tell you anything in all honesty - if it is happening once a day then it might be just a spike, and if ya got any brains at all ya wont sit there all day with your voltmeter plugged into the mains http://www.sysopt.com/forum/smile.gif

Needless to say, 110vac is a hell of a punch and would make you jump http://www.sysopt.com/forum/smile.gif sit on a chair with both feet in the air, and make sure the chair is wooden with no metal running down to the ground http://www.sysopt.com/forum/smile.gif electricity will take the shortest route possible(lightning?) and if you are the shortest, it will take a trip down you http://www.sysopt.com/forum/smile.gif

And who would look after all our lovely messages if that happened?

[socalgal]

LOL! I have a couple more brains than that (I hope..) And ROTF I will look pretty funny but no one will see me so... I have the wooden chair right here http://www.sysopt.com/forum/wink.gif

I was thinking about it and if there was noticeable spikage going on, I would see lights flicker.. but since this is an older building I'd like to see how these old wires are doing.

Thanks for your concern, richamies. http://www.sysopt.com/forum/smile.gif

If you don't hear from me sometime tomorrow, call the Natl' Guard! http://www.sysopt.com/forum/wink.gif

[socalgal]

Thanks smokin and Beor..

I'm just not sure now.. it happened again this morning and the prompt flashed with a 3.3?? This is most unusual - I think I'll uninstall MoboMon for the time being.

I do have a surge protector, and I guess I'll have to get a Volt Meter and check it from the mobo. Ay yi yi. I hope I do it correctly.. :/

Oh, and I'll check out that VRM first too...



[This message has been edited by socalgal (edited 01-07-2000).]

[theCorvetteDoctor]

As you may have seen, I work for a Generation company. You mentioned that it happened the last few nights, has it been unusally cold? The line voltage will vary on many factors, load, unit availability etc. Get a voltmeter and check the current in the wall.. I have seen wall voltage vary from 108-125vac. Computers may or may not have a "constant voltage regulator" which would keep this from occuring. sincerely DrVette

[Bleeding Edge]

If its not a problem with the motherboard or power supply, consider a good quality line-conditioner. One from TrippLite (http://www.tripplite.com/) or APC (http://www.apc.com/) will do. This will protect against such variations in line voltages. A good quality power supply from PC Power&Cooling (http://www.pcpowercooling.com/home.htm) is also recommended.


[This message has been edited by Bleeding Edge (edited 01-08-2000).]

[socalgal]

Hi Bleeding Edge http://www.sysopt.com/forum/smile.gif Good to see you!

Thanks for the post... I've got my stuff plugged into a Belkin, but somehow it seems inadequate (?) I've been meaning to get an APC surge protector... thanks for the reminder.

Btw, I was looking at the psu's at the PC Cooling link you posted. They talk about built-in line conditioning on their PSU's. I've never thought about this: would a generic or standard 250W PSU - such as one would get at Fry's or computer show - have built-in line conditioning, or is this a feature one would find only from a higher scale vendor? Is there some way to tell by reading the info on the PSU?

[theCorvetteDoctor]

I hope you didn't think I wanted you to poke around in the computer with a voltmeter, not. The line voltages coming into your home vary greatly upon demand and the quantity of customers in the area since the last transformer upgrade.. Power companies pay more to repair damaged stuff for people due to low voltages than "spikes" The term spikes is more cool to say I think rather than "brown-out". Spikes are caused generally by sunspot activity, lightning and wind blown lines touching. It is safe to check the wall voltage with a cheap voltmeter, this will save you money on the power bill and all items in the house will run cooler on a higher voltage rather than a lower one. As in my other post, I've seen wall voltages lower than 110 volts. This is too low, the power company needs to add more transformers in the area to boost the line to 115-120 volts. One place I used to live had such low voltages that when a neighbors a/c unit came on, mine would slow down.. a subsequent investigation led to new and additional transformers added to the area..and wall voltages near 120. hope this helps,, DrVette

[This message has been edited by theCorvetteDoctor (edited 01-11-2000).]

[Susan]

With my past experience with low/high voltage spikes that came into my house, I can tell you that it damaged 2 different power supplies completely within a few days. And the third only last another month because I installed it briefly before I purchased a line conditioning UPS.

Yes, the lights were flickering, but in my estimation I would think that damage to a PS could happen before you are seeing the outward signs of the surges through your lights.

At the time, I was using redundant surge protectors and the surges still got through.

I ended up getting the Blackout Buster, which is comparible to the UPS 500, and does have the line conditioning.

www.pkworld.com (http://www.pkworld.com)

I doubt that standard PS's have any line conditioning in them.

[bubblehd]

I must echo the feelings of Bleeding Edge and Susan. Surge protectors are good to have on your TV, VCR, stereo and microwave, etc. But if you have a computer system with valuable information on it, the only way to protect it is with a power conditioner. I'm running UPC Pro 500, and I just went through a lightning strike in September. The TV, VCR and Stereo were all protected by a surge protector, but the computers were on the power conditioner. I lost the TV, VCR and stereo along with a couple of telephones and some studio video equipment that I had forgotten to unplug when I used them last, but my computers didn't even hiccup! My insurance company couldn't believe I had 4 computers and none were damaged.

The nice thing about UPC is that their batteries are replaceable (just wish they were cheaper).

[BBA]

Hmmm...how did I miss this whole post?

Well, sounds like you have it all under control socalgal...I bet lola feels loved!


Good luck with it!

[theCorvetteDoctor]

WOW, I musta been delirious forgetting about spikes being caused by lightning also,sorry. For the poor among us a cheap way to make a UPS(uninterruptible power supply)is to get a "inverter" to convert 12vdc to 110vac. According to our experts the only problem comes in using "square wave" power is in some printer heads. "Sine Wave" is what the power company delivers to you,, square wave is what comes outta a inverter..inverters have constant voltage regulators in them, I've tested one and found it not to vary even one volt. www.damark.com (http://www.damark.com) is a good place to get one, or auto parts, Radio Shack.. to figure your need, volts x amps = watts. A 600watt($100)@110vac will run a 5.5 amp device. My basement a/c unit 5000watt pulls 4.9amp. fyi. does excess drivel result in negative posts? DrVette

[This message has been edited by theCorvetteDoctor (edited 01-11-2000).]

[socalgal]

I suppose I must consider myself very lucky to have avoided any real problems. I also remember your electrical problems Susan, and the havoc you went through.

Consider it done that I will be getting a UPC, APC, UPS... whatever it is, and I'll be getting a good one - it sounds like 500 is the magic numbr. I'm making calls this afternoon - hopefully the local Fry's carries a good one.

Again, I thank you all very much for your suggestions and thoughts. It's very appreciated. http://www.sysopt.com/forum/smile.gif

EDIT: I am now charging up a Belkin UPS 425VA, which has line conditioning. I'm really glad I got this and I have you guys and Susan to thank, otherwise I probably would have kept putting it off... http://www.sysopt.com/forum/smile.gif Only thing is... ACK! Wires!! I have too many wires!!

http://www.sysopt.com/forum/biggrin.gif

[This message has been edited by socalgal (edited 01-10-2000).]

[socalgal]

EDIT: Thanks, BBA, they will! (see below) http://www.sysopt.com/forum/smile.gif

DrVette - huh? lol, I didn't understand any of that - WAY over my head! But I thank you anyhoo! http://www.sysopt.com/forum/smile.gif

[This message has been edited by socalgal (edited 01-11-2000).]

[Mntsnow]

BBA...Dont feel bad! I feel worse...I was all over this board yesterday and last night and all day today and I missed Socalgals cry for help too http://www.sysopt.com/forum/frown.gif....btw You will really enjoy having a UPS system socal. I just recently upgraded to powerware 1500ext (http://www.powerware.com/2products/network/prestige/prestige.htm) to feed my 4 main babies...The wife's and daughters machine's all have APC bk300's

They are great data savers as well as a great insurance policy http://www.sysopt.com/forum/smile.gif

Mntsnow

[socalgal]

Aww, thanks Mntsnow http://www.sysopt.com/forum/smile.gif Well, it seems as I have a defective unit!!

I noticed yesterday that the back plug-in seemed kind of loose. But I charged it anyway and finally hooked it up and the DSL modem wouldn't power on with the phone line jacks installed through it (which I thought was weird since that's not where the power is coming from) so it's being returned tomorrow. I tried several phone cords.

I've got my comp hooked up to it now though... I was kind of hesitant to run it... but everything seems fine. But I want that modem option.

I'm getting something bigger, so I can use it for 2-3 comps. This one ended up being too small anyway http://www.sysopt.com/forum/frown.gif (doh)

Yes, the peace of mind will be much greater.

[bubblehd]

socalgal

I don't think there are any members who don't sympathize with you dilema with the wires. I started rebuilding my network lastnight after my Omnicube 4-switch arrived, and the frustration kept building with every wire I coiled and tie wrapped. It's not enough that I have to do that kind of stuff 10 to 12 hours a day, I have to come home and do it some more!

Best of luck!

Bubblehd

[Mntsnow]

WEll?????? Whatda finally get?? Huh Huh??

Sheeze I sound like a kid on x-mas day http://www.sysopt.com/forum/biggrin.gif and I'm not even the one getting something new today.LOL

Mntsnow

[BBA]

Yea...what kinda toys did you buy?
I just hate that having to take it back thing tho.

[socalgal]

Hi! http://www.sysopt.com/forum/smile.gif lol

Well, this is a real trip! I brought the Belkin back to Fry's and got a sales guy because I told him I wanted to unwrap the bag on the next unit to check it out.

He pulled another Belkin 425 off the shelf, and Hello! Another loose plug plate! Hmm. There was a pallet of still crated Belkins 525's there, just in. So we got into those... same thing! We opened 4 more of 525's and all defective back plates hehe! Looks like Belkin & Fry's has a big problem.

And I ended up with a better deal too. I got a MinuteMan MBK 520 for the same price (it was on sale for $20 less!) AND it has 3 battery/line-conditioning outlets instead of the Belkins 2. I must have missed it the first trip!

Sirius (main box) is all hooked up, as my monitor and DSL modem too, all-in-all Happy Socalgal as I ended up the winner on this deal http://www.sysopt.com/forum/biggrin.gif

Thanks for asking, guys http://www.sysopt.com/forum/wink.gif

[BBA]

That just leaves me with a warm happy feeling inside! I'm glad it worked out for you!

[Mntsnow]

Glad to see you got yer self all fixed up there Socal!

Want to see a screenshot of how much run time I have now with my new "overkill" ups? http://www.sysopt.com/forum/smile.gif
Lansafe (http://www.aros.net/~mntsnow/pics/lansafe.jpg)is the type of software that enables it to shutdown ANY of the connected systems (I have 4 of my complete systems on this unit) The Screenshot (http://www.aros.net/~mntsnow/pics/lansafe.jpg) is on my "banking" machine.

[socalgal]

Hee, thanks BBA, me too! http://www.sysopt.com/forum/biggrin.gif

Mntsnow, that looks pretty cool... does the soft use much of your sys resources? My MBK 520 says 24 mins with my comp setup.

I got soft with my UPS too, but haven't installed it as I didn't see the need nor want the bloat..

Hey!! Mntsnow, BBA, I FINALLY got that NT4 WS configured where I can access from 98 to NT Yippee!! (I wonder if I could do it again though lol) http://www.sysopt.com/forum/biggrin.gif

[This message has been edited by socalgal (edited 01-15-2000).]

[Mntsnow]

The soft for my "client machines" uses up very overhead on the network and about half a meg of memory. so I'm willing to run all the time that way if by chance I have a power outage that is lasting more than 45 minutes it will run the batch file that will SAFELY save and close any running program and power them off http://www.sysopt.com/forum/smile.gif

Thats great that you have that much run time! as well as the piece of mind that your well protected.

ps. Congrats on getting "Sirius" to "lola"! Was bdogs and my thread helpful? Was that your problem before?

Mntsnow

Edited to get the "machine names" correct http://www.sysopt.com/forum/smile.gif

[This message has been edited by Mntsnow (edited 01-15-2000).]

[socalgal]

Hi

Now if I can remember ... yes, a friend and I msg'd last nite for a couple hours trying to get it and something still wasn't right - but he gave me the key I believe - the Admin pw had to be set. Also, from your post too - about the Guest - to enable from the default disabled.

Set Admin pw - I had Admin login empty before
Set Admin permissions to User\xx - full control
Enable the disabled Guest

I *think* that's all I had to do... I'll probably reinstall NT4 and do it again, just to "set" it in mind http://www.sysopt.com/forum/smile.gif

[Target]

Hey Socal.... CYM, sent you a little goodie to use to compare monitoring results of MM with.