I challenge you...

[RockNRoll]

To watch this clip in its entirety, and think about it. :t

http://www.afr.net/newafr/wekickedgodout.asp

[richard_cocks]

Watching that is painful, because it's so dumbed down and misses the point so much. :rolleyes: What a bunch of fruitcakes promoting religous intolerance :(

[mireland]

To watch this clip in its entirety, and think about it. :t

http://www.afr.net/newafr/wekickedgodout.asp


and the point is???? :rolleyes:

[RockNRoll]

Ignorance starts sadness.

I'm open to discussion rich, where's the point it's missing?

[Ankerson]

It's very sad, but true. :(

[mireland]

keep god out of schools... :mad:

[CrazyCrusher]

keep god out of schools... :mad:

Why?

[mireland]

Why?


cuz he don't belong there...don't belong in our government either...now he's free to visit any church of any denomination of his choosing...

[CrazyCrusher]

Wow, very insightful.

[j.m@talk]

Loda Male Chicken :rolleyes:

[mireland]

Wow, very insightful.


spare me your lame sarcasm...I can get that from JM or Porsch... :D

[j.m@talk]

spare me your lame sarcasm...I can get that from JM or Porsch... :D

SHADDAP OK!

[mireland]

SHADDAP OK!


you seem to be bored today... :rolleyes:

[fancyf]

It's very sad, but true. :(
+1

This world has gone crazy.. FUBAR... :(
Time to go back to what really matters.. no more BS.. :mad: soupir :(

Thanks RockNRoll..

[mireland]

just for the record: I'm not against religon(even though I'm not religous in the slightest). I just can't stand bible thumpers in our school systems... :mad:

[j.m@talk]

just for the record: I'm not against religon(even though I'm not religous in the slightest). I just can't stand bible thumpers in our school systems... :mad:

Thayt bwoy neeyds sum churchyin' up ya awl ! :D

[mireland]

Thayt bwoy neeyds sum churchyin' up ya awl ! :D


uh..YOU'RE the one posting news items about naked beer... :rolleyes:

[RockNRoll]

I know not everyone feels religion as some do. I just want you to know first of all if you find something in here personally attacking, please do not think it that way, and keep on reading, nothing here is meant in any way to put anyone else down please read this to the end.

But the problem is, we should have the right, under freedom of speech to pray in schools if we want, to read the Bible in school, and to all around express Christianity wherever... Our right is being singled-out and taken away, while everyone else keeps theirs. Think about it, even read the Bible if you feel like picking one up. Why single out JUST Christianity? My answer is people know about it, and struggle with it's truth, others just hate it because they know it and are convicted by it. If you make something go away it doesn't hurt anymore right? I just wish more people would see the truth. It hurts me as a Christian to see people hate God and hate the knowledge of God so much, that they want to get rid of it to make themselves feel better, and to escape guilt and conviction. If they could only see that covering it up is not the answer, but realizing God's love for each and every person, and choosing to go with what they know deep inside to be true, and take it to heart to believe in God, and the Son Jesus, and walk with Him, it would be so much better.

Just think about this... Whether or not you believe God is real, He loves you, and created you, and wants you to live with Him in heaven... Proof of His existence can get no simpler. Browse through a Bible, it's all there. It is the oldest "religious" record around, because it is THE record, of mankind as it began, by God and with God. He loves everyone and died for everyone so that they may have forgiveness. Realise nothing you do is past forgiveness! God loves you so much that he wants you to just learn, and come to Him, so that you may escape the doom (hell) that awaits everyone as natural born sinners (yes Christians sin too).

I know to some this might sound farfetched to an unbeliever, and I completely understand that. However I would challenge you to try to learn and understand. I've just really felt like I needed to say this guys. I pray you will be given desire to just try learning, and understanding, and go from there if you feel lead to. Please do not choose to ignore it though, it hurts too much for so many people to remain lost, at least try and maybe you will gain some understanding and desire to pursue further.

[tantone]

That video is assinine. Simplistic, biased, stupidity at it's finest. "Oh, if the whole world were more Christian everything would be fine!"

Let's think about that for a second. Ted Haggard. Catholic priests molesting young boys and the church trying cover it up. PTL Ministries, and all the other lying, cheating, thieving televangelists out there. That list goes on and on, and goes back centuries.

I'm not saying that being Christian is bad. All I'm trying to point out is that it's not wondeful just by itself.

I could pick that video apart, item by item, but no one read it all--hell, I don't want to type it all. I just want to say that anyone who actually, totally, believes in most of what that moron said must have had a lobotomy at some point.

No one is saying that you can't have your religion. No one is saying that you're wrong. We're simply saying that THAT's what your church is for.

[tantone]

Here's a very good example of one of the reasons that Christians have come under such fire by "the rest of us" since Bush took office.

http://www.peer.org/news/news_id.php?row_id=801

“In order to avoid offending religious fundamentalists, our National Park Service is under orders to suspend its belief in geology,” stated PEER Executive Director Jeff Ruch. “It is disconcerting that the official position of a national park as to the geologic age of the Grand Canyon is ‘no comment.’”

[RockNRoll]

That video is assinine. Simplistic, biased, stupidity at it's finest. "Oh, if the whole world were more Christian everything would be fine!"

Let's think about that for a second. Ted Haggard. Catholic priests molesting young boys and the church trying cover it up. PTL Ministries, and all the other lying, cheating, thieving televangelists out there. That list goes on and on, and goes back centuries.

I'm not saying that being Christian is bad. All I'm trying to point out is that it's not wondeful just by itself.

I could pick that video apart, item by item, but no one read it all--hell, I don't want to type it all. I just want to say that anyone who actually, totally, believes in most of what that moron said must have had a lobotomy at some point.

No one is saying that you can't have your religion. No one is saying that you're wrong. We're simply saying that THAT's what your church is for.

Praying is not something you only do in Church. It's part of a Christian lifestyle to pray and talk to God throughout the day. Therefore, if we need to pray in school, or anywhere else, we should be able to. You can't tell someone who is on oxygen that they can't take it with them, because that's what hospitals are for. Praying is something that keeps Christians alive spiritually, as oxygen keeps someone physically alive who needs it. We depend on God, and we'll take him with us everywhere, as the person on oxygen will take it where they go, because it sustains them.

Research it though, Christianity is the most attacked 'religion'. And we were told it would be in the Bible, as it says, "they will hate Me (God)", Christians will always be persecuted. Now it's time to fight back, because it's going too far. People are getting more and more convicted as the world gets worse and worse, but it's not going to help them to cover it up, but they should pursue Christianity. Some people don't want to hear it simply to rebel, because maybe they have developed an understanding but do not want to voice it because they feel they've tried so hard to make their point against Christianity, that it's too late to turn back now, and still look respectable. Some have other reasons. If we would just realize that nothing bad will come of us if we humble ourselves, and turn to God, who sent his Son to die for us, who loves us all so much. If we turn to Him, he will take us, forgive us, and make a place for us in Heaven, and he will walk with us, in us, for the rest of our lives. Friends, this world, and this earth is temporary, and any decision made for this world is temporary, our earthly bodies are temporary, we will die. We need to make a decisions that counts in the end. To live for God, or live for the world. I can tell you this. It will be the most important decision you will ever make.

I know some of you will still refuse to hear it... You may have questions, doubts, and the like. Nobody can make you hear this it's ultimately your choice, but it is my calling as a Christian to spread the teaching. I tell you this though, I will be praying for each and every one of you, for everything, and also our changing world, which needs help. God bless all of you.

[j.m@talk]

Now then Tanty ....... Look what you've done :mad:

[mireland]

That video is assinine. Simplistic, biased, stupidity at it's finest. "Oh, if the whole world were more Christian everything would be fine!"

Let's think about that for a second. Ted Haggard. Catholic priests molesting young boys and the church trying cover it up. PTL Ministries, and all the other lying, cheating, thieving televangelists out there. That list goes on and on, and goes back centuries.

I'm not saying that being Christian is bad. All I'm trying to point out is that it's not wondeful just by itself.

I could pick that video apart, item by item, but no one read it all--hell, I don't want to type it all. I just want to say that anyone who actually, totally, believes in most of what that moron said must have had a lobotomy at some point.

No one is saying that you can't have your religion. No one is saying that you're wrong. We're simply saying that THAT's what your church is for.

well..it looks like Tanty and I are FINALLY on the same side on this one... :D

[mireland]

Praying is not something you only do in Church


troo...I pray at girlie bars as well... :D

[CrazyCrusher]

Even during the holidays I am surprised and distressed at the attacks made on Christmas. The stories abound: Target stores not allowing the Salvation Army to set up on the store's property, school districts banning music containing any references to Christmas (not just Jesus, but also to Santa Claus!), nativity scenes disallowed by city and county governments, etc. These are not only attacks on one Christian holiday, but also an ongoing attack on American values and the principles on which your great country was founded.

Part of this problem stems from the misinterpretation of the First Amendment. The "establishment clause" was written to prevent anything similar to the official Church of England, a state religion operated and run by the government, from starting here in America. That is the single reason for that clause in the First Amendment. Nowadays, the court's phony "separation of church and state" interpretation is used as a weak excuse to dissolve any connection between religion and government, any mention of God in anything related to the government. This presents a serious problem, as any student of our history or government will recognize, because God is mentioned quite frequently in your nation's founding documents and these principles are clearly stated. If you need to refresh your memory, read through the Declaration of Independence and the Preamble to the Constitution. (On a side note, I wonder how many of us/you actually have copies of these essential documents?)

The question is: If those who are instigating these attacks have their way, what will be next? Will the Constitution and other founding documents be banned from schools? Impossible, you say, yet there are school districts that have already tried to ban the Declaration of Independence and "The Rights of the Colonists" by John Adams because of references to God! Will Moses and the Ten Commandments have to be removed from the U.S. Supreme Court building? Will Lincoln's speech mentioning God carved inside the Lincoln Memorial be defaced? Will religious programmers and broadcasters be denied the FCC's permission to use "public airways?" nothing will get better it will grow worse.

[mireland]

I celebrate christmas..........by not celebrating it... :rolleyes:

[CrazyCrusher]

I celebrate christmas..........by not celebrating it... :rolleyes:
the wit of wisdom once again shines :rolleyes:

[mireland]

the wit of wisdom once again shines :rolleyes:

:r :r :r :r

[mireland]

Even during the holidays I am surprised and distressed at the attacks made on Christmas. The stories abound: Target stores not allowing the Salvation Army to set up on the store's property, school districts banning music containing any references to Christmas (not just Jesus, but also to Santa Claus!), nativity scenes disallowed by city and county governments, etc. These are not only attacks on one Christian holiday, but also an ongoing attack on American values and the principles on which your great country was founded.

Part of this problem stems from the misinterpretation of the First Amendment. The "establishment clause" was written to prevent anything similar to the official Church of England, a state religion operated and run by the government, from starting here in America. That is the single reason for that clause in the First Amendment. Nowadays, the court's phony "separation of church and state" interpretation is used as a weak excuse to dissolve any connection between religion and government, any mention of God in anything related to the government. This presents a serious problem, as any student of our history or government will recognize, because God is mentioned quite frequently in your nation's founding documents and these principles are clearly stated. If you need to refresh your memory, read through the Declaration of Independence and the Preamble to the Constitution. (On a side note, I wonder how many of us/you actually have copies of these essential documents?)

The question is: If those who are instigating these attacks have their way, what will be next? Will the Constitution and other founding documents be banned from schools? Impossible, you say, yet there are school districts that have already tried to ban the Declaration of Independence and "The Rights of the Colonists" by John Adams because of references to God! Will Moses and the Ten Commandments have to be removed from the U.S. Supreme Court building? Will Lincoln's speech mentioning God carved inside the Lincoln Memorial be defaced? Will religious programmers and broadcasters be denied the FCC's permission to use "public airways?" nothing will get better it will grow worse.

there needs to be room for us non believers too ya know...jesus christ... :r

[tantone]

I only want to address 2 parts of your post as the rest of it is useless and not contributory to a rational discussion.
...if we need to pray in school, we should be able to.You have every right to pray in school, or anywhere else you choose. No one said you can't. If you need to, go for it. You don't disrupt anything if you sat at your desk and silently prayed before a test, or knelt and prayed before kickoff at your favorite sporting event, etc. That's you're right and I'm not opposed to that.

The issue at point here is not just the mere act of praying. It's partly the organized, school-sanctioned praying. But more importantly, it's the idea that religion and religious beliefs should be taught in public schools as if they were scientifically testable theories. They're not. Modern Christians here in America are trying to say otherwise. 50 years ago, if you dared utter that creationism was an alternative "theory" to evolution, the Christians would have been up in arms.

It's time y'all got your story straight.

...Christianity is the most attacked 'religion'. Now it's time to fight back...I'm no Bible scholar, but that sure sounds pretty un-Christian to me. Fight back? Is Jesus not the example that every Christian attempts to hold themselves to? He didn't fight back. And anyone with half a brain knows he was one amazing human being!!

If Christianity were really under "attack," you would see churches being closed by the government, throngs of people blocking entrance to places of worship, and the killing of Christians simply because they were Christian. You want to see a religion under attack? Read about Nazi Germany and the Jews then come back and complain...if you still have anything to complain about.

You may feel like you're being persecuted today, but that's only because the mainstream US citizen is just about sick and tired of things like the link I posted. They're ffed up with these front-page outings of prominent Christian leaders being gay drug addicts. They're disgusted at the bombings of abortion clinics and murders of doctors who perform them. They've had enough of overly-zealous pharmacists refusing to do their jobs and denying the sale of certain medications--which were actually prescribed by learned physicians--because they don't agree that the drug should have been made. They're tired of this "poor me" attitude too many Christians take these days.

All of this came about because GWB and his flock of Ted Haggard law school graduates he appointed have tried to force "Christian" morals down the throats of everyone, and each and every Christian feels empowered to push their agenda further than it should ever be pushed.

You want to spread the message, and I realize that is part of being a Christian. But part of working for some telemarketing firm is cold-calling people and being pushy salespeople who have to be told NO 5 times before they end the call...unless you hang up on them. I know you won't see the parallel there--as you see it, you're offering everlasting salvation whereas Cindy from Sprint is only offering $.02/min cheaper long-distance. But to those of us who don't want what you're offering, they're identical.

So, pray for us all you want. We don't care.

[roook]

Science is questions that may never be answered
Religion is answers that may never be questioned

That really about sums it all up nicely.
To believe in a god you have to suspend any critical thinking. Thats why I'm anti-religion.
Remember in history classes reading about the dark ages? Well they were totally caused by the whole of the known world at the time, being rabidly religious and erasing every form of scientific reasoning and questioning. Persecuting anyone who questioned anything the bible (a badly translated work of fiction) said, and burning at the stake anyone who questioned the church's authority on any subject.

Kind of seems a lot like what the US is turning into right now doesn't it!

[j.m@talk]

In my finest Dublin accent "God bless us & save us" Be jayzerz ;)

[tantone]

Science is questions that may never be answered
Religion is answers that may never be questioned

That really about sums it all up nicely.
To believe in a god you have to suspend any critical thinking. Thats why I'm anti-religion.
Remember in history classes reading about the dark ages? Well they were totally caused by the whole of the known world at the time, being rabidly religious and erasing every form of scientific reasoning and questioning. Persecuting anyone who questioned anything the bible (a badly translated work of fiction) said, and burning at the stake anyone who questioned the church's authority on any subject.

Kind of seems a lot like what the US is turning into right now doesn't it!Not entirely. Some of us are trying to keep that kind of backward slide from taking hold permanently.

The religious would love it though. No more questioning their lack of reason.

[mireland]

I like cake..just not the angel food kind.... :rolleyes:

[j.m@talk]

Some of us are trying to keep that kind of backward slide from taking hold permanently.

Who ?

[mireland]

Who ?


not you... :rolleyes:

[j.m@talk]

Sinep :rolleyes:

[mireland]

Sinep :rolleyes:

kcid. :D

[roook]

Huh?
We talkin' in anagrams here, or just idiocy?

[tantone]

Letting those two participate in a thread is like letting Bill and Ted teach history classes.

[j.m@talk]

Huh?
We talkin' in anagrams here, or just idiocy?

Fer ........

[mireland]

Letting those two participate in a thread is like letting Bill and Ted teach history classes.


if you feel the need to be an @ss please do so at the other place.... :D

[mireland]

if you feel the need to be an @ss please do so at the other place.... :D


amen.

[porsch1909]

Did someone post that christianity is the most attacked religion? ROFL!

I think by far that award goes to Islam.

[j.m@talk]

More like Judaism

[mireland]

Did someone post that christianity is the most attacked religion? ROFL!

I think by far that award goes to Islam.


nope...it's atheisim(sic). As soon as someone says they don't believe in god they are immediatly attacked.. :mad:

[porsch1909]

More like Judaism

So the christians and jews attack the muslims.

The muslims attack the jews and christians.

Everyone is equal?

[Bigjakkstaffa]

Pretty much everyone has had a go at the Jews... its one of those things that straddles simple religious sectarianism, there just seems to be a deeply ingrained hatred (either historically or even at present) of the Jewish people throughout every continent on the planet.

[Ankerson]

Pretty much everyone has had a go at the Jews... its one of those things that straddles simple religious sectarianism, there just seems to be a deeply ingrained hatred (either historically or even at present) of the Jewish people throughout every continent on the planet.


True and sad. :(

I will never understand it either as it makes no sense. :confused:

[tantone]

Yeah, they've had their share of it. Although, presently, they're dishing out as much as they're getting in return. It's a case of two squabbling kids in the backseat on a long road trip, and the rest of the western world is in the two front seats. Each of the kids in the back blames it on the other one for starting it, then punches the other one. This goes back and forth, over and over, for hundreds of miles of the road trip and eventually the parents are going to get fed up with both of them.

[Ankerson]

Yeah, they've had their share of it. Although, presently, they're dishing out as much as they're getting in return. It's a case of two squabbling kids in the backseat on a long road trip, and the rest of the western world is in the two front seats. Each of the kids in the back blames it on the other one for starting it, then punches the other one. This goes back and forth, over and over, for hundreds of miles of the road trip and eventually the parents are going to get fed up with both of them.


I would think after thousands of years of slavery, slaughter and other bad things they have gotten fed up.

I don't blame them personally. ;)

[tantone]

Israel: the Jews didn't fight to earn it, they didn't take it by force, and the US is their bulldog. That is a pretty tenuous position to be in when almost every country in your reigion denies your right to exist.

Maybe the meek will inherit the earth, but only after the non-meek kill each other--and almost all of the meek--in the interim.

[Ankerson]

Israel: the Jews didn't fight to earn it, they didn't take it by force, and the US is their bulldog. That is a pretty tenuous position to be in when almost every country in your reigion denies your right to exist.

Maybe the meek will inherit the earth, but only after the non-meek kill each other--and almost all of the meek--in the interim.


Yeah they have thier hands full don't they. :)

Israel isn't weak by any means. :D

It's a shame they have to fight to keep what they have though.

[tantone]

If the US quit backing them with $$ and weapons and intel, weak is exactly what they would be. That's what happens when you didn't get what you have on your own. Every other country over there wants them out of that land.

Personally, I'd rather see our money go to help the really persecuted folks in some of these mudholes in Africa. For the humanitarian dollar, wouldn't that go a lot further?

[Ankerson]

Personally, I'd rather see our money go to help the really persecuted folks in some of these mudholes in Africa. For the humanitarian dollar, wouldn't that go a lot further?


Oh I agree with you, something needs to be done.

Africa is a nightmare at best. :(

However I wouldn't want to see it ruined like so many other places in the World, there are some really beautiful areas in Africa untouched by the Corp world and IMO they should stay that way.

[genesound]

It's ancient history now...

[werz]

Yeah they have thier hands full don't they. :)

Israel isn't weak by any means. :D

It's a shame they have to fight to keep what they have though.

They have to fight to keep what they stole, would be closer to the truth.