WINDOWS VISTA DIGITAL RIGHTS MANAGEMENT

[CrazyCrusher]

Shed some light on this if anyone could, it dosent seem good.


WINDOWS VISTA DIGITAL RIGHTS MANAGEMENT
(LISTEN AND READ BEFORE GETTING VISTA)

Due to the level of interest and the amount of new and updated information, I decided to upgrade the torrent uploaded last weekend.

The main article by Peter Gutmann from the Department of Computer Science of the University of Auckland, New Zealand (contained in the .mht file) raises a number of very important questions about the extent to which Microsoft has gone to satisfy copyright owners during the development of Windows Vista. The article raises vital issues concerning your rights when you purchase a computer -- including the associated hardware, especially the video card -- and install software. Take special note of issues such as video card drivers that are overly complex and WILL EXPIRE (if the rights to which are not renewed by the manufacturer), making images fuzzy or unviewable. The new DRM system will also spill over to users of earlier versions of Windows.

Gutmann points out, "Windows Vista includes an extensive reworking of core OS elements in order to provide content protection for so-called 'premium content', typically HD data from Blu-Ray and HD-DVD sources. Providing this protection incurs considerable costs in terms of system performance, system stability, technical support overhead, and hardware and software cost. These issues affect not only users of Vista but the entire PC industry, since the effects of the protection measures extend to cover all hardware and software that will ever come into contact with Vista, even if it's not used directly with Vista (for example hardware in a Macintosh computer or on a Linux server). This document analyses the cost involved in Vista's content protection, and the collateral damage that this incurs throughout the computer industry."

The article certainly explains why it took Microsoft so long to develop Vista and why, despite the prolonged development period, many of the vital drivers simply do not work correctly and slow down the operating system.

Gutmann concludes, "The Vista Content Protection specification could very well constitute the longest suicide note in history."



The other items in the torrent are four Security Now podcasts located at the website of Gibson Research Corporation with pdf transcripts. Program 74 is an interview/discussion with Gutmann.The podcasts and transcripts can also be found at www.grc.com/SecurityNow.htm

Also included is Microsoft's response to Gutmann's paper, at the Windows Vista Team Blog. Of the nearly 200 comments, the vast majority were very critical of Microsoft's new DRM measures included in Vista. In a comment on February 1, Nick White, a product manager and person responsible for the Vista Team Blog promised, "We continue to listen equally intently in this case" as they did in other cases such as Microsoft's earlier policy changes concerning "disabling start-up sound, offering multi-copy product offers (Family Pack) and easing licensing restrictions for enthusiasts." He also said that any news on the issue would be included in the blog.

http://windowsvistablog.com/blogs/windowsvista/archive/2007/01/20/windows-vista-content-protection-twenty-questions-and-answers.aspx

Gutmann's rebuttal is included in the torrent, along with his original article:

http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~pgut001/pubs/vista_cost.html#response

The opinion of Canadian lawyer Michael Geist, who holds the Canada Research Chair in Internet and E-commerce Law at the University of Ottawa, Faculty of Law, and also a columnist at the Toronto Star is also included in the torrent and can be found here:

http://www.thestar.com/article/175801


Finally, included is the blog of a reseacher who claims to have successfully broken the Vista DRM:

http://www.alex-ionescu.com/?p=24

(We found the Ionescu blog by simply following this hyperlink included in one of the replies on the Vista Team Blog webpage http://it.slashdot.org/it/07/01/29/1811201.shtml )


The issues raised by Gutmann's article might best be understood in the framework of the convergence and conflicts of business interests among the software and hardware industries, and the suppliers of content (recording, motion picture, "print" and broadcast media industries) as well as the political power they wield individually and collectively. The increasing level of economic concentration in many of these industries (and newly combined industries) also comes into play. To simply bash Microsoft would be to miss the point.

This technology was developed with the Blu-Ray and HD-DVD in mind. Thus, Microsoft was being told what it had to do. But that is not the whole story: Microsoft is also a producer of content that it may want to protect in this manner.

The problem is what all this new activity does to system stability and whether or not the technology does efficiently what Microsoft says. "Efficiency" is a relative term and every user will have, at least, a slightly different definition of the term. The excessive use of the CPU also means that slower CPUs will be made obsolete, just as Vista Aero's system requirements already makes many lower end and older video cards obsolete to users who want to activate it.

If this technology is not going to have wider uses, Microsoft should consider issuing a Vista version or versions that would reject Blu-Ray and HD-DVD disks outright and relieve the CPU of the constant verification tasks. This would allow users who do not want either HD system to continue to use their current CPUs and video cards.

In what may be a clear case of serious negligence (or simply disregard) on the part of Microsoft, for many months, Microsoft has offered on its website a program called "Vista Upgrade Advisor." This seemingly excellent program provides an advance assessment for prospective purchasers of Vista regarding the readiness of their PCs for Windows Vista. It provides a list of actions that the consumer should take to prepare his or her PC for Vista. It mentions nothing, however, related to the extra burden on the CPU of the new operating system. The assessment of the installed video card did not mention the new special requirements imposed by the Vista DRM, evaluating only the capability to use Vista Aero.

A bigger problem is what this (and other invasive technologies) does to everyone's rights concerning their computers, their personal property.

Finally, if your rights as a consumer and property owner of your computer are being violated, it becomes a legal and political problem that needs to be resolved by the courts and the legislatures.

[Ankerson]

Sounds like people are again making a mountain out of a mole hill. :rolleyes:

DRM is going to happen, it has to happen because of all the thieves out there. ;)

[CrazyCrusher]

I agree, I didnt have time to read over the whole lot when I posted this information. But they are making a big deal out of nothing.

[Ankerson]

I agree, I didnt have time to read over the whole lot when I posted this information. But they are making a big deal out of nothing.


People will always complain about something I guess. :rolleyes:

[Strawbs]

Crazy Crusher is right! DRM is a violation of consumer rights.

"Palladium" (google it) should never have been allowed to happen, but the passive masses said back then that it would only affect "Thieves", so it was accepted.

I personally can't wait to see the day when people like the above two - have issues with a downloaded movie they paid for but can't access because DRM has thrown its rattle from the cradle.

[Ankerson]

Crazy Crusher is right! DRM is a violation of consumer rights.




I disagree there. ;)

You choose to buy a computer and in the future you will choose to do so with DRM in place or you won't have one.

They have to crack down on Piracy across the board, no choice.

There have been laws in place all along, now they are just allowing them to be enforced.

The software companies have just as much right to protect their software from theft as you and I have the right to use it when we buy it.

[bruceb]

As to paid for Movies that you download DRM should not interfere.
After all you Paid For It as required. As to a crack down on piracy,
all I can say about that, is if Software companies, sell their wares
for a Reasonable Price and Include Lifetime Updates to all Future
releases, most people are willing to pay it. I for one, say, don't like
Adobe charging $400 + for Acrobat Pro, then finding it will not work
with Office 2007 .. now I would need a new version .. granted the
upgrade is a bit less expensive (around $200) but still pricey when
you consider how much the original costs. Keep the cost reasonable
and people will Buy It if they need it, rather than find ways around it.

[Ankerson]

As to paid for Movies that you download DRM should not interfere.
After all you Paid For It as required. As to a crack down on piracy,
all I can say about that, is if Software companies, sell their wares
for a Reasonable Price and Include Lifetime Updates to all Future
releases, most people are willing to pay it. I for one, say, don't like
Adobe charging $400 + for Acrobat Pro, then finding it will not work
with Office 2007 .. now I would need a new version .. granted the
upgrade is a bit less expensive (around $200) but still pricey when
you consider how much the original costs. Keep the cost reasonable
and people will Buy It if they need it, rather than find ways around it.

That argument has never held water and never will, Piracy is stealing just like bank robbery, there isn't really a difference, theft is theft period.

So what you are saying is that if something is too expensive in your opinion it's fine to steal it. :rolleyes:

Jeez that Land Rover is just to expensive....... :r

THat would result in a person saying:

"Your Honor the Land Rover price was too high."

The Judge Would say:

"You are going to jail...."

[bruceb]

No I did not say that. I only said that is a reason for some
to pirate programs. I do not condone it and I am simply
stating a simple way for software makers to get more
people to pay for their product in the first place.

People will not steal / pirate it, if they can buy it for a
reasonable cost and know it is 100% legit.

[Strawbs]

As to paid for Movies that you download DRM should not interfere.
After all you Paid For It as required. ....that's exactly my point! DRM will validate the movie before you can play it back! it will check for a certificate of authenticity, which if missing or corrupt, will not allow the file to play.

you only have to play an uncertified file (.WMV,.WMA, etc) in WMP to see the message yourself.

i.e: If your hard drive expires unexpectedly and takes your certificates with it - you will have effectively lost the ability to play all of your legaly downloaded media! and before you say "back up your certificates...", ask yourself how much of the public is aware of the pitfalls.

I know of individuals that have resorted to P2P to get back the music that they have paid for but lost the certificates for in the above manner! If messeurs Gates, SONY & their cronies had their way - even that would not be possible.

It happened to me when I d\l'ed a tune to my Mobile phone once! I never got to play it because the certificate was either invalid or corrupt! I've never attempted to do that again and never will. I did manage to get the tune on my phone eventually - but not in a manner that you guys (or Gates) would consider legal.

once bitten, ...

[Strawbs]

I disagree there. ;)

You choose to buy a computer and in the future you will choose to do so with DRM in place or you won't have one.

They have to crack down on Piracy across the board, no choice.

There have been laws in place all along, now they are just allowing them to be enforced.

The software companies have just as much right to protect their software from theft as you and I have the right to use it when we buy it.I already have a Notebook that is DRM enabled (Turion 64x2) & I can tell you there are ways and means to work around DRM with XP.

Vista just means more hostility toward the consumer! the Pirate\Theif will always find ways around these things.

[Ankerson]

People will not steal / pirate it, if they can buy it for a
reasonable cost and know it is 100% legit.


Reasonable price varies a lot depending on who you talk to. ;)

[Ankerson]

Vista just means more hostility toward the consumer! the Pirate\Theif will always find ways around these things.

Possibly, but it is a good step, and it will continue to get harder as time goes on.

[bruceb]

Reasonable, means under $300 for a program, such as Office
and that should include lifetime updates to newer versions without
the need to repurchase the program.

[Bigjakkstaffa]

The issue with DRM is that the "Thieves" whom it supposedly targets, will always find a crack for said DRM methods, or simply find an alternate source for the same content without any DRM measures.

I'm afraid that all forms of copy protection are generally about as useful as glass hammers, the majority of the people who want to get their hands on digital content for free via illegal means, have the means and knowledge to do so no matter what walls you try and put in front of them, speaking from personal experience, all that new high-falutin copy protection systems and DRM does is add an extra five minutes to the task of any "theif" who know his earwhole from his bumhole (in temrs of copy protection systems the likes of Starforce, TAGES, Securom 7 etc are little more than mild inconvieniences to anyone who knows what theyre doing)

--Jakk:t

[BadDriver]

Exactly. I have two .exe files in every game I own. One with protection and one without. It is as simple as 1-2-3. I name the original exe-1 and replace it with a stripped exe. Now I can play my games without the disk. If I want to play online I rename my stipped exe exe-2, the original I rename to just exe and insert the disk.

Same with updates, use the original and go download the new cracked exe. This is one thing I like about steam. I bought it, I paid for it and I shouldn't have to beat my disk to death and go through the hassle of changing disks everytime I want to play xx game.

Steam has it's issues but I like the way I can just click and play, no disk required. Steam can be a hassle but man I would rather deal with it than dig through my pile of CD/DVD's everytime I want to play a freaking game. The fact is, most people who scream about steam are the pirates. I actually like the concept, stay up to date and just click and play.

Sounds reasonable to me. :r :t


The issue with DRM is that the "Thieves" whom it supposedly targets, will always find a crack for said DRM methods, or simply find an alternate source for the same content without any DRM measures.

I'm afraid that all forms of copy protection are generally about as useful as glass hammers, the majority of the people who want to get their hands on digital content for free via illegal means, have the means and knowledge to do so no matter what walls you try and put in front of them, speaking from personal experience, all that new high-falutin copy protection systems and DRM does is add an extra five minutes to the task of any "theif" who know his earwhole from his bumhole (in temrs of copy protection systems the likes of Starforce, TAGES, Securom 7 etc are little more than mild inconvieniences to anyone who knows what theyre doing)

--Jakk:t

[Ankerson]

Reasonable, means under $300 for a program, such as Office
and that should include lifetime updates to newer versions without
the need to repurchase the program.


That will never happen.....

[Ankerson]

The fact is, most people who scream about steam are the pirates.


Exactly, as are most people who scream about DRM etc. People who realise they might have to pay money for something.

[Bigjakkstaffa]

Even in the case of Steam, its not that hard to rip-off content without having to pay a penny

--Jakk:t

[Strawbs]

Apparently Steve Jobs is a Pirate\Theif too!

Jobs say Ditch DRM (http://www.apple.com/hotnews/thoughtsonmusic/)!

as I said, it just makes things harder for the casual consumer & won't deter piracy. :p

[Ankerson]

Apparently Steve Jobs is a Pirate\Theif too!

Jobs say Ditch DRM (http://forums.cnet.com/5208-10152_102-0.html;jsessionid=abcOsk6ruV1IqcTs7NFcr?forumID=97&threadID=232349)!

as I said, it just makes things harder for the casual consumer & won't deter piracy. :p


We all pay for theft when we buy anything as the cost is just passed along to the Consumer.

[Strawbs]

We all pay for theft when we buy anything as the cost is just passed along to the Consumer.according to the quote below - broadly speaking; everyone that owns any flavour of iPod is a theif!Today’s most popular iPod holds 1000 songs, and research tells us that the average iPod is nearly full. This means that only 22 out of 1000 songs, or under 3% of the music on the average iPod, is purchased from the iTunes store and protected with a DRM. The remaining 97% of the music is unprotected and playable on any player that can play the open formats. It’s hard to believe that just 3% of the music on the average iPod is enough to lock users into buying only iPods in the future. And since 97% of the music on the average iPod was not purchased from the iTunes store, iPod users are clearly not locked into the iTunes store to acquire their music.this is from Apple figures and is spelt out by Jobs.

Note: At this point I'd like to make clear that I do not own any form of iPod or portable mp3 player. :r

[Ankerson]

Note: At this point I'd like to make clear that I do not own any form of iPod or portable mp3 player. :r


I don't either. :)

[Strawbs]

did you get that people?

only 3% of the music on the average iPod is DRM protected! even allowing for royalty free music, you can reckon that over 90% is uploaded from "dubious" sources.

what say you now, DRM advocates? :p

[Ankerson]

did you get that people?

only 3% of the music on the average iPod is DRM protected! even allowing for royalty free music, you can reckon that over 90% is uploaded from "dubious" sources.




And people wonder why DRM is needed. ;)

[Strawbs]

And people wonder why DRM is needed. ;)did you read my link?

please read it! there'smuch more to it than just the fact t hat mp3 owners are the biggest bunch of pirates that ever sailed the seven seas.

the underlying message is that DRM doesn't work! Vista will make unsuspecting criminals of everybody that uses it. anything from playing a song, to printing a document is now tied to legal mumbo-jumbo that the average Joe doesn't understand.

[Ankerson]

did you read my link?

please read it! there'smuch more to it than just the fact t hat mp3 owners are the biggest bunch of pirates that ever sailed the seven seas.

the underlying message is that DRM doesn't work! Vista will make unsuspecting criminals of everybody that uses it. anything from playing a song, to printing a document is now tied to legal mumbo-jumbo that the average Joe doesn't understand.


I read it, it seems that there needs to be a DRM system developed for Music CDs. The reason there hasn't been is the question because they all are screaming about theft, but they expect the Software companies to do it.

[Bigjakkstaffa]

I read it, it seems that there needs to be a DRM system developed for Music CDs. .

So we can go and crack that three days after it goes live

--Jakk:t

[Strawbs]

I read it, it seems that there needs to be a DRM system developed for Music CDs. The reason there hasn't been is the question because they all are screaming about theft, but they expect the Software companies to do it.a system like SONY's Rootkit (http://searchsecurity.techtarget.com/sDefinition/0,,sid14_gci547279,00.html) for example?

this is the result of trying to force software onto the public's computers covertly! Vista is a different kettle of fish entirely because the Rootkits are built-in to the OS.

[Rugor]

I have no problem with paying for downloaded content. My vice of choice is reading and I've spent a good U$200 on E-books this year alone. And it's only February. What I don't do is buy DRM e-books. I buy either Baen e-books or Fictionwise multi-format e-books; either of which allows me to read the book on whatever platform I choose.

It's fairly well understood that DRM doesn't prevent piracy. What it does do is put restrictions in place that hamper legitimate customers when they are attempting to use products they've paid for. I don't mind something like the MS enter your product key and activate the software system. I do mind when someone encrypts data so that I have to pay multiple times to use something I paid for.

DRM is never going to prevent piracy, and the more restrictive it gets, the more common piracy is likely to become.