Onboard or Audigy?

[crazynico]

getting a new rig soon, and i was wondering something. i mainly play games, so i wanna know if the onboard on this motherboard is better than an Audigy.

ECS 965T-A P965 Chipset w/7.1 Sound

the audigy is just a plain jane audigy that is about 4 years old. i'm out of touch with the latest technology, so how is onboard sound coming these days?

i use a Plantronics USB headset for my speakers.

[Ankerson]

I would re-think that motherboard choice and go with Asus, Intel, or Gigabyte.

ECS isn't a good choice.

[RamonGTP]

Audigy all the way.

[Ankerson]

Audigy all the way.


I doubt he would notice any difference between the Current on board sound and the old Audigy using headphones.

I can't notice any difference between the on board sound and my Audigy 2 so I pulled it out. ;)

[RamonGTP]

Well I can't speak for headsets since I rarely use them, but I can tell a huge difference between onbaord and my Audigy 2 with speakers. There is really no comparison.

[Ankerson]

Well I can't speak for headsets since I rarely use them, but I can tell a huge difference between onbaord and my Audigy 2 with speakers. There is really no comparison.


I am using speakers and can't tell the difference personally. :)

[crazynico]

i don't have an audigy 2, just an audigy. i would think that onboard would be better since the card is years old. so you guys are telling me that a regular audigy, not an audigy 2 is better?

also, anyone else want to comment on the motherboard? this was the recommended board from iBuypower.

[Ankerson]

i don't have an audigy 2, just an audigy. i would think that onboard would be better since the card is years old. so you guys are telling me that a regular audigy, not an audigy 2 is better?

also, anyone else want to comment on the motherboard? this was the recommended board from iBuypower.


The on board sound on the newer better motherboards is really pretty good, better than most people think it is. ;)

I can tell you that every single person I know that has built a Core 2 Machine using a good i965 board that asked the same question and all of them are still using the on board sound. ;)

I just told them to try the on board first as it is personal preference.

[crazynico]

here is my setup on the computer that will arrive on Tuesday. i hope the ECS board holds up, because it's too late for me to change the order:


Intel Core 2 Duo Processor E6300 (2x 1.86GHz/2MB L2 Cache/1066FSB

Liquid CPU Cooling Fan System Kit --- [for INTEL CPU] )

ECS 965T-A P965 Chipset w/7.1 Sound, Gb LAN, USB 2.0 PCI-E MB

1024MB [512MB X2] DDR2-800 PC6400 Memory Module Corsair XMS2 Xtreme w/Heat Spreader

NVIDIA GeForce 7950GT 512MB w/DVI + TV Out Video

250 GB HARD DRIVE [Serial-ATA-II, 3Gb, 7200 RPM, 8M Cache]

Sony DW-G120 Dual Format/Double Layer 16X DVD±R/±RW + CD-R/RW Drive Black


what's your opinion on this rig? pretty decent? anything i should look at upgrading soon?

[Ankerson]

You got a liquid cooling kit?

Over kill if not overclocking, the stock retail HSF is very good.

I hope you don't expect to overclock the E6300 on that motherboard because it doesn't have many options and doesn't overclock well from what I have read.

If running stock speed everything looks fine except you might want to add another 1024mb of memory later on if you game a lot.

[crazynico]

the liquid cooling comes with the computer. i don't overclock at all. if my comp gets too slow, i buy another one. but the price was the same with the liquid cooling.

i think i should go ahead and get 1024 more of the RAM now that you mention it.. shame about the mobo, but now that it's all assembled, i can't really go back and change it.

by the way, i've heard bad things about dual core processors and gaming saying how the games can only use one of the processors at a time, etc.

what's your take on this?

[RamonGTP]

I am using speakers and can't tell the difference personally. :)

I'm not doubting that you personally don't notice the difference, but there definatly is one. If I'm playing a poor quality MP3 I can't tell MUCH difference. Gaming or listening to a CD, It's a world of difference, and that is on several different (newer) board with onboard sound. They simply can't hold a candle to a dedicated Audigy2 (or Audigy) card in sound quality, features, CPU overhead or pretty much anything else, except for of course, cost. Since he already has a card, there is really no reason to NOT use it unless he needs the PCI slot for something else. While there may be a select few onboard solutions that are nearly as good, most boards, even newer ones are using products that are inferior to an Audigy.

[crazynico]

Ramon, what's your take on the ECS motherboard?

i know it may not be the latest and greatest, or something to be used for serious overclocking, but it's a decent board isn't it?

[RamonGTP]

I've built a few budget computers with ECS boards and have not had a problem with any of them. They aren't the best overclockers, even the ones that have overclocking options in the bios don't overclock well or at all. Their onboard devices usually are not as good as other baords, in particual, sound, ironicly enogh. But for a basic, no frills budget baord, it works.

If you are planning to dabble in overclocking, even minor, I'd suggest a different baord. If not, you should be ok.

[Ankerson]

i think i should go ahead and get 1024 more of the RAM now that you mention it.. shame about the mobo, but now that it's all assembled, i can't really go back and change it.


Yes I would. :D


by the way, i've heard bad things about dual core processors and gaming saying how the games can only use one of the processors at a time, etc.

what's your take on this?

Most games are not multi-Threaded so they don't use both cores.

That isn't a bad thing at all.

The games will be multi-threaded in the future to take advantage of Dual Core CPU's.

With the Core 2 Duo's it doesn't matter because they are so powerful.

[crazynico]

Most games are not multi-Threaded so they don't use both cores.

That isn't a bad thing at all.

The games will be multi-threaded in the future to take advantage of Dual Core CPU's.

With the Core 2 Duo's it doesn't matter because they are so powerful.

well my core 2 duo is like the bottom of the line, right? i mean 1.86 Ghz is not a whole lot. i'm starting to think i should have gotten like a 3.5 Ghz processor that is not a dual core.

i have an Athlon XP 2600 right now right at 2.0 Ghz. is the core 2 duo actually slower when it comes to games?

[Ankerson]

well my core 2 duo is like the bottom of the line, right? i mean 1.86 Ghz is not a whole lot. i'm starting to think i should have gotten like a 3.5 Ghz processor that is not a dual core.

i have an Athlon XP 2600 right now right at 2.0 Ghz. is the core 2 duo actually slower when it comes to games?


No the E6300 is a lot faster than the fastest P4 3.8 GHz CPU and it will be at least 3 times more powerful than what you are running now.

Yes the Core 2 Duo's are that powerful. :D

[crazynico]

No the E6300 is a lot faster than the fastest P4 3.8 GHz CPU and it will be at least 3 times more powerful than what you are running now.

Yes the Core 2 Duo's are that powerful. :D

but if the games are not multithreaded, then don't you only utilize 1.86 Ghz of the 2 x 1.86 Ghz cores?

[RamonGTP]

Yes you do, the point he's making is that the single 1.86GHz core is more powerfull than a 3.8GHz P4. Not only that but dual core games are becoming more and more popular. Even many games that originally were not dual core optimized have patches to support dual core.

http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=navclient&aq=t&ie=UTF-8&rls=GGLG,GGLG:2005-35,GGLG:en&q=dual+core+game+list

[_Mystical_Night]

I would get an X-Fi instead of an audigy 2 ZS :) u can get an X-FI music for like $100 now while an Audigy 2 ZS is like $70

[RamonGTP]

I would get an X-Fi instead of an audigy 2 ZS :) u can get an X-FI music for like $100 now while an Audigy 2 ZS is like $70


I believe he already owns the Audigy though, that's why the question was being asked.

[_Mystical_Night]

if its just a plain audigy card with no eax then I would go with the onboard sound, most audigy cards come with EAX support tho thats the whole reason everyone uses them :) EAX is great for FPS games

[RockNRoll]

Realtek makes onboard chips with EAX and I must say, they're the best onboard chip I know of. No reason I can see of replacing them with add-in cards. I have an ALC 850 on my board (EPoX) and it's great.

[own]

I have the same onboard sound as RockNRoll and there is no difference at all between it and my Soundblaster Live! No idea how it stacks up to an Audigy card though.

[LED]

You got the Aud so go with it...uses less CPU overhead and when other factors are involved (ie. encoding multimedia and accessing software such as Tsunami Pro or Music Makers, Play and Burn at the same time there will be a noticible difference...

[AllGamer]

i got the new Audigy XFI Fatality Gamer :D
waiting for it to arrive from mail

[Shungoh]

i got the new Audigy XFI Fatality Gamer :D
waiting for it to arrive from mail

ALLGAMER you are ******* RICH!!!!!!!
I wish i had that sort of money.... =)
I can only afford a Creative SB X-Fi Xtreme Audio and burnt a bad hole in my wallet

[Shungoh]

Come on... ECS is not a good brand... Get at least a MSI or Gigabyte Motherboard..
Actually, MSI NEO F 965P motherboard is budget and good for its price.... and though its so called HD Audio is not that HD, the sound is actually comparable to the Audigy's. But cos you are using ECS motherboard.... GET AN AUDIGY YOU GOON!!!!!!!! JK JK.... NO .. seriously get the audigy!

=P

[MadPistol]

I just got a Sound Blaster X-Fi Platnium for my new rig (which still isn't here :mad: ) and I cannot wait to slap that bad boy in to it. I know it doesn't have the X-ram that the Fatal1ty has, but from what I've read, it can actually hurt performance currently because there are no games that take advantage of it. I read up on the Platinum, and it's as solid as the Audigy 2 series with the features of the X-Fi series cards. That's what won me over. :t

[Bigjakkstaffa]

I've just upgraded from onboard Realtek AC97 on an Nforce 4 board (so we're not even talking about the really good onboard Soundstorm system found on the Nforce 2's here) to an Audigy 2 ZS Platinum Pro OEM, and honestly the difference in sound quality is NOT going to blow your socks off.

EAX 4.0 effects for gaming are quite a bit niftier than the EAX 2.0 provided by onboard, and it does cope better with bass than the onboard did, but im glad i got it on the cheap as an OEM (cost about £25) - i think had i payed much more than that, i would be more than a little dissapointed in what i got for my money.

A point on the X-Fi series, while they are highly regarded (personally i think the Auzentech X-Meridian 7.1 sounds a far more interesting card, but lack of Open AL support is goign to kill it under WIndows Vista) in terms of their performance, the amount of issues and problems is phenomenal, just head over to Creative's forums and find literally thousands of people who have ended up with essentially useless cards. Look befor eyou leap woudl be my advice if your thinkign of goign the X-Fi route.

--Jakk:t

[KraZy_SkitZy]

I've ran quite a few sound cards in my days, and the the X-fi Elite Pro, it doesn't breathe a whole new life into gaming or anything, but music and older games it really shines compared to the audigy 2 zs. I used the line-in on the breakout box for the elite pro for my sirius radio when I use it inside to improve the sound quality. The creative crystalizer is quite nice, if you can afford the x-fi grab one, and if you have a few extra bucks splurge for the elite pro if your like me and like havin the extra inputs and external controls.

I am intrigued by the AuzenTech X-Meridian 7.1 though I am alomost tempted to try it out.

All this talk bout soudn cards remind me of all the ones I've been through. I remember my first sound card, a sound blaster AWE16 built onto a 14.4kbs dial up modem, then a Crystal Sound Fusion ISA, then jumped to a soundblaster AWE64 and that was a huge leap in sound quality, then wen to a soundblaster16 then to the pci version and was dissapointed with both the isa and pci version. then the soundblaster 128 then the 512 which both sucked, then the Live! which I loved till I got my Fortissimio 2 digital edition card, that one stuck with me the longest till I got into the audigy series. I remember I had so many probs with the audigy 1, hated it, but got brave and tried the audigy 2 and loved it, now the x-fi elite pro is #1 to me for now. sorry for the long ramble haha :P

[Bigjakkstaffa]

I am intrigued by the AuzenTech X-Meridian 7.1 though I am alomost tempted to try it out.


It really does look a spiffy bit of kit IMO, the only problem, as im sure your aware of, is that because of the way the Audio Drivers are changing under Windows Vista, if you want to play audio with any sort of effects (EAX, DS3D) and at anything other than 2 channel, then you need Open AL support (both in the hardware, and the application your running). The X-Meridian 7.1 at present doesnt support Open AL which is going to hamstring it somewhat under Vista. Plus Auzentech's drivers and support is supposed to be pretty terrible, than again, this is something that can be levelled equally at Creative.

Hopefully Auzentech's next card can build on the impressive features of the X-Meridian, namely by integrating OpenAL to improve the audi experience under Vista, that way i think i'd be pretty hard pressed to find a reason not to buy one.

--Jak:t

[KraZy_SkitZy]

It really does look a spiffy bit of kit IMO, the only problem, as im sure your aware of, is that because of the way the Audio Drivers are changing under Windows Vista, if you want to play audio with any sort of effects (EAX, DS3D) and at anything other than 2 channel, then you need Open AL support (both in the hardware, and the application your running). The X-Meridian 7.1 at present doesnt support Open AL which is going to hamstring it somewhat under Vista. Plus Auzentech's drivers and support is supposed to be pretty terrible, than again, this is something that can be levelled equally at Creative.

Hopefully Auzentech's next card can build on the impressive features of the X-Meridian, namely by integrating OpenAL to improve the audi experience under Vista, that way i think i'd be pretty hard pressed to find a reason not to buy one.

--Jak:t

I'm sure they'll eventually fix this in a driver release, who nows maybe not. Since this is creatives only real competitor it seems (hercules fortissimo cards seemed to been blown off the map) I'm sure creative is set to eventually release a DTS interactive/Dolby Digital Live! card

[KraZy_SkitZy]

I was just curious if you guys think creative will conterattack the highly rated AuzenTech X-Meridian at all with making thier own Dolby Live and/or DTS connect card? :t

[Bigjakkstaffa]

They probably will do eventually, but Creative are one of those few companies in a position where they dont really need to adapt their products to meet business rivals technology, simply because they enjoy such a monopoly over existing sales.

--Jakk:t

[Rabbitrunner51]

Sounds like you have a couple of the more experienced computer nerds ( LOL ) , giving you some honest assessment here..

I have used my Audigy 2 ZS card for five years. now.. or therabouts. I love it. In the future i will upgrade to a more decent Xfi Platinum card, but unless your one who edits music or is a lifelong music affectioniotto, it SOLELY depends upon the motherboard and waht onboard capabilites and codecs are installed.
If using onboard and it sounds decent enough, then there are meriad of utilites and softwares on the market, many for free that have nice enchancements you can download to better the sound properties.

My last board ws very decent ( Asus P4P 800 Deluxe ) and they used the Sonic maker for onoard sound. I thought it sounded like trash.. beleive me it was. When i installed my Audigy, a whole new world opened up . More control or sound, ALOT better quality.., more sound properites for personal adjustment etc... For gaming, a good sound card is a must to recive full gaming sounds like meant to be heard.

The latest boards, and i would guess even ECS have improved onboard sound systems, and the 7.1 and 8.1 audio codecs are obviously better al around.

Just use the onboard for now... getting ahold of a Audigy Live, Audigy ZS, or 5.1 are probably firly cheap compared to wahts out today current.. Also, one shuld consider what kind or how many speaker setup you have. If only 2.1 or desktop, then a soundcard would be a waste..

[rockinup1231]

If you don't want to pay much for a new card, look at this.

http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2268373&cp=2032061.2063031.2063123&allCount=21&fbn=Price%2F%2410.00+-+%2449.99&fbc=1&fr=StorePrice%2FRSK%2F00001000%2F00004999&parentPage=family

Not bad. Sound Blaster's have always been my first look.

[Rabbitrunner51]

Nice link rock... For cheap, i'd go with that.. probably not a big enough seller, mainly one of the reasons RS, is offering to sell them. If its made by that company, is 24bit and 7.1, then thats defitely a great buy.. or improvement for somebody..

[rockinup1231]

Nice link rock... For cheap, i'd go with that.. probably not a big enough seller, mainly one of the reasons RS, is offering to sell them. If its made by that company, is 24bit and 7.1, then thats defitely a great buy.. or improvement for somebody..

I was going to get one a few weeks ago, but I decided to get Halo. What a waste of $40!! No matter how far I push my system, it just won't run well. My system is far past adequate, but the game engine I have heard just sucks in general.

OH yeah, the relevent part. I should have replaced my old Creative SC since it is totally messed up. It doesn't like to play videos without making static, a problem I dealt with in some other games. Thank god I found the driver for my on-board sound card, the SiS 7012 Wave card.

[rockinup1231]

I buy alot of my hardware from them. Being 16 I am limited to adding money to gift cards to use on their site. lol

[Bigjakkstaffa]

I WOULD NOT advise you buy the Audigy SE linked to above by Rockinup, particularly if your a gamer it offers poorer performance than the original Audigy - wheras the Audigy had hardware support for EAX, the Audigy SE doesnt and processes it through software, giving you a massive performance hit.

If EAX/Gamign isnt your thing then the Audigy SE does still offer 24-bit quality, but you could get easily yourself an Audugy 2 ZS OEM second hand from Ebay for a little bit more money (i've seen em going for $39.99) and get both good gaming performance and sound quality in one.

--Jakk:t

[rockinup1231]

I thought I would post it if you're not the richest guy and still want better performance. I've never owned a card that did hardware processing. I am kind of shocked to hear it doesn't support EAX, even my old Sound Blaster card supported EAX.

[Bigjakkstaffa]

It does support EAX, but its all processed through software, which means enabling EAX cripples performance, which for gamers in particular, kinda nullifies much the usefulness and functionality of the card.

--Jakk:t

[Rabbitrunner51]

Jak, your just a guru..LOL h'es right though.. Alot of users fail to read up about all the tech. facts... I did read up on all the rest, and that is one great point you emphasized there. Yes.., a totally differnt thing from software mixing and HW.

I noticed the Audigy 4 as being a great bargain though. its reviews were outstanding. One guy said he thought it ws a vast improvement over the previous A2 ZS. newEgg has that for around $49.00 Not too shabby.

Amazing that my card i got now.. sells for only three dollars less today then when i got it five years ago....and the above sells for less... wonder why?? jak ..you must know, You know everything else LOL

[KraZy_SkitZy]

what ever happened to the "hercules" company, it go belly up? I love my old fortissmo 2 card, I would recomend the fortissimo cards if you could still find them

[Bigjakkstaffa]

One guy said he thought it ws a vast improvement over the previous A2 ZS. newEgg has that for around $49.00 Not too shabby.


Again, not really true. Only the Audigy 4 Pro offers anything over the Audigy 2 ZS, and even then its an extremely minor improvement.

--Jakk:t

[rockinup1231]

I WOULD NOT advise you buy the Audigy SE linked to above by Rockinup, particularly if your a gamer it offers poorer performance than the original Audigy - wheras the Audigy had hardware support for EAX, the Audigy SE doesnt and processes it through software, giving you a massive performance hit.

If EAX/Gamign isnt your thing then the Audigy SE does still offer 24-bit quality, but you could get easily yourself an Audugy 2 ZS OEM second hand from Ebay for a little bit more money (i've seen em going for $39.99) and get both good gaming performance and sound quality in one.

--Jakk:t

That's why it's so cheap. RS is always vague on the details.