Bigjakkstaffa
08-07-2006, 03:06 PM
http://worthplaying.com/article.php?sid=36063&mode=thread&order=0
Would rather of had SP
--Jakk:t
Would rather of had SP
--Jakk:t
Click to See Complete Forum and Search --> : SC:Double Agent MP Demo next month
Rabbitrunner51
08-10-2006, 05:57 AM
yeah.. same here.. Have been seeing alot of that same thing in other demo releases also.
Tend to think its because the gaming community is so H. bent on online gaming.
Do you do any online gaming Jakk?
I know like me you liked the whole SC series up till now... personally I think some other games of this type are catching my interst more these days...but the whole SC thing is Unigue in its own right.
hang for a bit. I'm sure they will soon follow with the SP thereafter
Oh and just for the record... your system is about similar to mine in performance.Mine might be just a tad better. this qwhole dual core thing just upper my whole gaming experience like tenfold.... LOL
Tend to think its because the gaming community is so H. bent on online gaming.
Do you do any online gaming Jakk?
I know like me you liked the whole SC series up till now... personally I think some other games of this type are catching my interst more these days...but the whole SC thing is Unigue in its own right.
hang for a bit. I'm sure they will soon follow with the SP thereafter
Oh and just for the record... your system is about similar to mine in performance.Mine might be just a tad better. this qwhole dual core thing just upper my whole gaming experience like tenfold.... LOL
MJCfromCT
08-10-2006, 10:19 AM
Oh and just for the record... your system is about similar to mine in performance.Mine might be just a tad better. this qwhole dual core thing just upper my whole gaming experience like tenfold.... LOL
http://www.gpureview.com/show_cards.php?card1=313&card2=159
:p
http://www.gpureview.com/show_cards.php?card1=313&card2=159
:p
Bigjakkstaffa
08-10-2006, 11:33 AM
Do you do any online gaming Jakk?
I used to do massive Quake 3 benders, but not any more.
Still play the odd bit of TFC and Guild Wars, other than that none at all. Nearly all MP gameplay is based on overly repetitious gameplay concepts for my liking.
And for the record, my graphics card slays yours :p;)
--Jakk:t
I used to do massive Quake 3 benders, but not any more.
Still play the odd bit of TFC and Guild Wars, other than that none at all. Nearly all MP gameplay is based on overly repetitious gameplay concepts for my liking.
And for the record, my graphics card slays yours :p;)
--Jakk:t
Rabbitrunner51
08-10-2006, 09:43 PM
Jakk.. "I bet it does" Whats trully remarkable is when i got this older card I knew at the time it was good ( for back then ), but had no idea it would carry me this far.
Your card seemstobe the best choice these days for high end mid to upper range of what they have come out with so far...
I got my sights on a 7600GS. 12 PL's and it gets fivwe star in performance for a real good current mid range card..
Funny.. even a card like that is like Far... better than what i got it seems... but its always a open debatable thing as to what one wants...
Since this whole PCIE thing is being disputed over whether it is actaully in fact far bettr than a real good AGP card... its more of a matter of having to use it with all the latest tech. and that is what is offered.
MJC... I put that link in my favorites "sticky" Thanks!
Your card seemstobe the best choice these days for high end mid to upper range of what they have come out with so far...
I got my sights on a 7600GS. 12 PL's and it gets fivwe star in performance for a real good current mid range card..
Funny.. even a card like that is like Far... better than what i got it seems... but its always a open debatable thing as to what one wants...
Since this whole PCIE thing is being disputed over whether it is actaully in fact far bettr than a real good AGP card... its more of a matter of having to use it with all the latest tech. and that is what is offered.
MJC... I put that link in my favorites "sticky" Thanks!
Bigjakkstaffa
08-11-2006, 12:07 AM
I wouldn't bother with the 7600GS if i were you tbh - Direct X 10 components aren't too far off in the near future, and most of the work being done with Direct X 9 graphics coding at present is geared towards getting the optimal effects and performance out of existing hardware, until Vista and DX10 arrive some time next year. The FX5900 should last you until Direct X 10 hardware appears, it would seem silly IMHO to pick up another DX9 based card in the meantime.
The PCI-E vs AGP debate is still fair enough in terms of speed difference. But, fact of the matter is, before too long, your not going to be able to pick up a motherboard (especially at the top/id range) that's even got an AGP slot - ergo PCI-E wins (part of the reason i upgraded from my R9800P - that was still doing the business - to the 7800GT despite them both being same gen cards, was simply because the R9800P is set to suffer extinction along with AGP in the near future, whereas the PCI-E 7800 could potentially - though it darn well wont once DX10 hardware arrives - be used in every system i build for several years to come).
In this day and age, Graphics card is king where gaming is concerned. You can have just about the fastest processor on earth, but unless your playing in a scenario where graphics power isn't concerned (that is to say at 640x480 0xAA, 0xAF, all eye candy off) - you'll still find yourself lagging behind the bloke with the slightly older CPU but the GPU thats eben only a couple of iterations up the line.
If your building a gaming rig these days, the most important consideration is balance, its no good blowing your money on top of the range CPU's if you have to skimp on the graphics and RAM, in an age where nothing is CPU bound anymore (i fail to discern any difference between my 4 Year old 2400+ and my 9 month old Opty 146 in gaming scenarios) and graphical acceleration and oodles of RAM to cater for sloppy coding (EA Games - I'm pointing at you), they're the main priorities.
Don't get me wrong, the X2 series are decent processors and will come into their own in time - but that will be more to do with architectures moving away from the inherently single core path and producing the fastest CPU's as dual core models, rather than anything specifically to do with "dual core" being the future, specifically for gamers - after all, multiprocessing has been relatively mainstream for several years now, but you can still count the number of big titles with specific MP binaries on your fingers alone. Dual core will become the dominant technology in mainstream CPU's (much in the same way as PCI-E will in Graphics), but unless there are massive changes in the way programs are coded their performance as "single core" entities will remain the key factor. As such, Dual Core, in its current state anyways, isn't that massive a factor in gaming performance - the thing thats revolutionizing your game play experience at present, is that you've purchased one of the fastest operating CPU's available - the dual core element however, is probably still lying very dormant (unless your playing Quake 3/4, CoD2 which are the only big titles IIRC with MP binaries available).
Just my two penneth on the wonderful world of CPU's and GPU's and their relationship to this gaming malarkey
--Jakk:t
The PCI-E vs AGP debate is still fair enough in terms of speed difference. But, fact of the matter is, before too long, your not going to be able to pick up a motherboard (especially at the top/id range) that's even got an AGP slot - ergo PCI-E wins (part of the reason i upgraded from my R9800P - that was still doing the business - to the 7800GT despite them both being same gen cards, was simply because the R9800P is set to suffer extinction along with AGP in the near future, whereas the PCI-E 7800 could potentially - though it darn well wont once DX10 hardware arrives - be used in every system i build for several years to come).
In this day and age, Graphics card is king where gaming is concerned. You can have just about the fastest processor on earth, but unless your playing in a scenario where graphics power isn't concerned (that is to say at 640x480 0xAA, 0xAF, all eye candy off) - you'll still find yourself lagging behind the bloke with the slightly older CPU but the GPU thats eben only a couple of iterations up the line.
If your building a gaming rig these days, the most important consideration is balance, its no good blowing your money on top of the range CPU's if you have to skimp on the graphics and RAM, in an age where nothing is CPU bound anymore (i fail to discern any difference between my 4 Year old 2400+ and my 9 month old Opty 146 in gaming scenarios) and graphical acceleration and oodles of RAM to cater for sloppy coding (EA Games - I'm pointing at you), they're the main priorities.
Don't get me wrong, the X2 series are decent processors and will come into their own in time - but that will be more to do with architectures moving away from the inherently single core path and producing the fastest CPU's as dual core models, rather than anything specifically to do with "dual core" being the future, specifically for gamers - after all, multiprocessing has been relatively mainstream for several years now, but you can still count the number of big titles with specific MP binaries on your fingers alone. Dual core will become the dominant technology in mainstream CPU's (much in the same way as PCI-E will in Graphics), but unless there are massive changes in the way programs are coded their performance as "single core" entities will remain the key factor. As such, Dual Core, in its current state anyways, isn't that massive a factor in gaming performance - the thing thats revolutionizing your game play experience at present, is that you've purchased one of the fastest operating CPU's available - the dual core element however, is probably still lying very dormant (unless your playing Quake 3/4, CoD2 which are the only big titles IIRC with MP binaries available).
Just my two penneth on the wonderful world of CPU's and GPU's and their relationship to this gaming malarkey
--Jakk:t
Rabbitrunner51
08-11-2006, 04:42 AM
Some real good info and points there. I just wrote something somewhere in the past week of so expressing that in ageneralsense.. DX 10 when iit comes out willmakelower end graphics card users... possibly have to go out and get a wholenew Video card. Maybe not for some.
Everything that is out NOW is made to run on DX 9.0c or at least 9.0...and that includes the video cards low and high end and also the games that go with them...
What we ALL literally will have to go pick up some 3-400 card to use DX 10??
That would surely rock the whole of the gaming and tech/computer community.
I have a friend who has the 7800GT card and it is vry decent... but really....The CPU and video card both make up the whole package ... the VC just shows the graphics but what runs it???
hate to inform you of this but dual core CPU's DO indeed play a signigficant role in improvement... I can see and witness it right now in my games.. My very keen eye does not lie. In CSS alone my FPS went up over 30%..and thats sugnificant... A good high end single core like the AMD 4000 would increse FPS overthat also maybe more..( i got the lowest end X2....
Until you have one yourself... there is no way you can discard proven performancefirst hand..That Opteron 146 is about the same overall benchies as mine..and were introduced as a server based platformfirst then given to the wholeof desktops ..was it not.... Depending upon the year and modelyou have they started to use that archetecture to make a dual core Opteron, which makes perfect sense.
This is the reason i got the current mobo I have now.... it has AGP..PCIE and all the rest other than true SLI. ( rthe only thing it does not have that makes any difference. )
Yeah.. who would have known that when my CPU came out for instance the whole tech. advancments would transpire so quickly that now it may be just another CPU very soon and nothing special.. LOL
Everything that is out NOW is made to run on DX 9.0c or at least 9.0...and that includes the video cards low and high end and also the games that go with them...
What we ALL literally will have to go pick up some 3-400 card to use DX 10??
That would surely rock the whole of the gaming and tech/computer community.
I have a friend who has the 7800GT card and it is vry decent... but really....The CPU and video card both make up the whole package ... the VC just shows the graphics but what runs it???
hate to inform you of this but dual core CPU's DO indeed play a signigficant role in improvement... I can see and witness it right now in my games.. My very keen eye does not lie. In CSS alone my FPS went up over 30%..and thats sugnificant... A good high end single core like the AMD 4000 would increse FPS overthat also maybe more..( i got the lowest end X2....
Until you have one yourself... there is no way you can discard proven performancefirst hand..That Opteron 146 is about the same overall benchies as mine..and were introduced as a server based platformfirst then given to the wholeof desktops ..was it not.... Depending upon the year and modelyou have they started to use that archetecture to make a dual core Opteron, which makes perfect sense.
This is the reason i got the current mobo I have now.... it has AGP..PCIE and all the rest other than true SLI. ( rthe only thing it does not have that makes any difference. )
Yeah.. who would have known that when my CPU came out for instance the whole tech. advancments would transpire so quickly that now it may be just another CPU very soon and nothing special.. LOL
Bigjakkstaffa
08-11-2006, 10:33 AM
What we ALL literally will have to go pick up some 3-400 card to use DX 10??...
That would surely rock the whole of the gaming and tech/computer community.
... but really....The CPU and video card both make up the whole package ... the VC just shows the graphics but what runs it???
1) No. It'll be as per usual regarding the release of DX10 hardware, there will be the usual lowe end cards that are pretty rubbish for gaming but have DX10 hardware support and cost <£100 (e.g. MX440, FX5200 for DX8/9etc), then there will be the mid range cards that are decent gaming cards and wont break the bank (e.g. Ti4200, R9600 for DX8/9), then finally there will be the super duper high end that requires you to get the house remortgaged (e.g. Ti4600, 7900 for DX8/DX9).
2) Since the days of "Graphics Accelerator Card Required" began appearing on boxes, CPU has become less of an issue in terms of gaming performance then GPU in my mind. Back in the old days of software rendered graphics CPU was king, because it had to process just about all the data in a game (possibly excluding the sound, if you were one of those crazy cats who had hardware sound acceleration).
These days however, at least in gaming terms, graphics and the power to process those graphics (graphics cards dont just "show the graphics" - they are graphics processing units - they do the vast majority of the processing and calculatiosn relating to the graphics, the major chunk of most gamesprocessing strain) is just about the largest determining factor in terms of performance, simply because graphics are just about the most complex element of modern day video games programs. Factor into this super duper sound cards that can run hardware audio acceleration and effects at near enough 0% CPU Utilisation (the X-Fi is basically a 3.6Ghz Pentium 4 dedicated purely to sound) and thats even more load off the CPU. If physics processiing units take off (which they wont) - that would be even less work for the CPU. Indeed, the bigger slow downs in gaming terms come when your gaphics card begins to fall short, for example when VRAM has to use system RAM as an overflow because its not big enough to hold a rather huge texture - or it cant process new effects, such as HDR efficiently. It's the old scenario of, you could spend 20Million dollars on a Super Computer compision several hundred CPU's, but try and play quake 4 on it and some spotty seventeen year olds mid range laptop will probably outperform it, because he's got hardware video acceleration.
System building is all about balancing your builds to suit your needs. For gamers these days, the build priority (and subsequently where most of the money goes) starts with the graphics card, below that is the need for a CPU and RAM that operate fast enough not to choke the graphics card, but they are still relatively secondary players in terms of performance. Of course, if video/audio/photo editing was what you needed, then it would be the exact opposite, CPU and RAM would be king and GPU would be the seconday consideration - simply because the majority of GPU's these days are targeted heavily at gaming performance, and for general non gaming builds the GPU power of the newest mid-high range cards woudl never be utilised - its really only gaming alone that requires that level of Graphics processing.
Thats not to say that CPU and RAM arent important elements in the gaming build, they are, and shoudlnt be neglected. But balance is key, you can spend £1000 on a 4Ghz CPU and 4Gb of RAM, but if your left with only enough to put a FX5600 in it, in temrs of gaming performance, the bloke who spent a lowly £250 on his CPU and RAM and £250 on a top end GPU will outshine the former in terms of performance.
Gaming today is essentially extremely GPU bound (e.g. look at minimum/reccomended spec's for most titles on the shelfs now - there are three and four years old CPU's like the old Tbred XP2400's and even lower that are regarded as fine and dandy, then look at the minimum/reccomended Graphics Acceletator, more and more your finding a MINIMUM need for Direct X 9 graphics hardware, thats technology thats only a couple of years old tops - further illustrating that GPU is the key factor to gamign performance)
--Jakk:t
That would surely rock the whole of the gaming and tech/computer community.
... but really....The CPU and video card both make up the whole package ... the VC just shows the graphics but what runs it???
1) No. It'll be as per usual regarding the release of DX10 hardware, there will be the usual lowe end cards that are pretty rubbish for gaming but have DX10 hardware support and cost <£100 (e.g. MX440, FX5200 for DX8/9etc), then there will be the mid range cards that are decent gaming cards and wont break the bank (e.g. Ti4200, R9600 for DX8/9), then finally there will be the super duper high end that requires you to get the house remortgaged (e.g. Ti4600, 7900 for DX8/DX9).
2) Since the days of "Graphics Accelerator Card Required" began appearing on boxes, CPU has become less of an issue in terms of gaming performance then GPU in my mind. Back in the old days of software rendered graphics CPU was king, because it had to process just about all the data in a game (possibly excluding the sound, if you were one of those crazy cats who had hardware sound acceleration).
These days however, at least in gaming terms, graphics and the power to process those graphics (graphics cards dont just "show the graphics" - they are graphics processing units - they do the vast majority of the processing and calculatiosn relating to the graphics, the major chunk of most gamesprocessing strain) is just about the largest determining factor in terms of performance, simply because graphics are just about the most complex element of modern day video games programs. Factor into this super duper sound cards that can run hardware audio acceleration and effects at near enough 0% CPU Utilisation (the X-Fi is basically a 3.6Ghz Pentium 4 dedicated purely to sound) and thats even more load off the CPU. If physics processiing units take off (which they wont) - that would be even less work for the CPU. Indeed, the bigger slow downs in gaming terms come when your gaphics card begins to fall short, for example when VRAM has to use system RAM as an overflow because its not big enough to hold a rather huge texture - or it cant process new effects, such as HDR efficiently. It's the old scenario of, you could spend 20Million dollars on a Super Computer compision several hundred CPU's, but try and play quake 4 on it and some spotty seventeen year olds mid range laptop will probably outperform it, because he's got hardware video acceleration.
System building is all about balancing your builds to suit your needs. For gamers these days, the build priority (and subsequently where most of the money goes) starts with the graphics card, below that is the need for a CPU and RAM that operate fast enough not to choke the graphics card, but they are still relatively secondary players in terms of performance. Of course, if video/audio/photo editing was what you needed, then it would be the exact opposite, CPU and RAM would be king and GPU would be the seconday consideration - simply because the majority of GPU's these days are targeted heavily at gaming performance, and for general non gaming builds the GPU power of the newest mid-high range cards woudl never be utilised - its really only gaming alone that requires that level of Graphics processing.
Thats not to say that CPU and RAM arent important elements in the gaming build, they are, and shoudlnt be neglected. But balance is key, you can spend £1000 on a 4Ghz CPU and 4Gb of RAM, but if your left with only enough to put a FX5600 in it, in temrs of gaming performance, the bloke who spent a lowly £250 on his CPU and RAM and £250 on a top end GPU will outshine the former in terms of performance.
Gaming today is essentially extremely GPU bound (e.g. look at minimum/reccomended spec's for most titles on the shelfs now - there are three and four years old CPU's like the old Tbred XP2400's and even lower that are regarded as fine and dandy, then look at the minimum/reccomended Graphics Acceletator, more and more your finding a MINIMUM need for Direct X 9 graphics hardware, thats technology thats only a couple of years old tops - further illustrating that GPU is the key factor to gamign performance)
--Jakk:t
Rabbitrunner51
08-11-2006, 07:03 PM
Jakk. Thanks for the nice long dialog... Now I don't feel as though i'm alone there (LOL ) , but I know you have alot more to offer in the way of good basicand tthorugh info for clarification .. and insight... In truth i have either read or find useful info regarding such things.. but no doubt you know alot more on this subjsect... so let me say this...: Thank you!
Evrey time i come across some blog or useful stuff I often get caught up in my old habits of deciding to save wahtever info is useful for later ref. My guess is if you look at the whole of the computer and gaming community... we are might ahve something to offer and have various degrees of real understanding about these subjects.
Just too much info to keep track of or keep up on.. but the race goes on... Still, its what keeps us informed and going forward... Myself.., i feelI willalways be lagging quite a bit in my overall knowledge due to ...well i'm a little bit of A.D.D. bits of info here and there... but invariatably missing parts here and there.
I can see why your a moderator.. You dfitenitely have something to offer for everyone..... keep up the good work buddie...
I'llmake this ismple: MAKE THIS PAGE YOU WROTE A STICKY SOMEWHERE
Just very very informative.. not some mumble jumble parts of useless debatchery ;)
Evrey time i come across some blog or useful stuff I often get caught up in my old habits of deciding to save wahtever info is useful for later ref. My guess is if you look at the whole of the computer and gaming community... we are might ahve something to offer and have various degrees of real understanding about these subjects.
Just too much info to keep track of or keep up on.. but the race goes on... Still, its what keeps us informed and going forward... Myself.., i feelI willalways be lagging quite a bit in my overall knowledge due to ...well i'm a little bit of A.D.D. bits of info here and there... but invariatably missing parts here and there.
I can see why your a moderator.. You dfitenitely have something to offer for everyone..... keep up the good work buddie...
I'llmake this ismple: MAKE THIS PAGE YOU WROTE A STICKY SOMEWHERE
Just very very informative.. not some mumble jumble parts of useless debatchery ;)
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