Is tape a good long term storage solution?

[Alkali]

Hi, I'm trying to find a good solution for long term data storage that I won't have to pay through my nose for. I have a few terabytes of data that grows by a couple of gigabytes every month, and I'm don't want to keep burning DVD's and buying hard drives. I'm also afraid of a hard drive dying or a DVD or CD becoming unreadable (it's happened before).
These files are greater than 100MB and usually less than 5GB and they never need to be changed once created/received. I thought tape might be a good solution as they don't need to be accessed very frequently either.

Can anyone advise me for/against getting a tape storage system for this? I don't know too much about the available hardware and prices and would appreciate any recommendations or pointers to information about tape systems for a PC.

Thanks, Alkali.

[Sterling_Aug]

There is no perfect solution.

Tapes need to be cycled thruout use so they do not break as often. They are slow.

DVD and CDs scratch and "wear out" due to flacking of the data coating.

Hard drives are the fastest and most reliable, but the most expensive.


I would base the decision on the cost of replacing the data if it is damaged or destroyed not on the cost of the storage media.

The entire exercise is an insurance policy for the data being saved.

[Alkali]

Thanks for the reply Sterling. Yes, it's all about price in the end :) HD's are too much for me to keep buying! Plus if one dies you lose a huge amount. I'm aware of the pros & cons of HD's vs. optical media, but I don't know anything much about tape tech. How slow is 'slow'? How much would an internal tape drive cost me, and are blank tapes expensive? Do they run on SATA? Are the drives likely to break down? I don't mind dishing out for a drive, as long as it will be reliable and the tapes aren't too much.

As for the data, most of it isn't critical and can usually be recovered from various sources, but it's a pain in the **** to get it back. I just want to be able to keep it stored safely where I can easily get to it when it may be needed in the near/distant future, without finding it unreadable right when I need it.

[Peter M]

Tapes (the backup kind) aren't made for long term storage, they're made to provide backup sets for a relatively short period, before they're overwritten with a new set.

DVD material decays too fast.

One good kind of media for long-term storage is magneto-optical aka MO. Long term stability of the media is very good, and so is the longevity of drives and their ability. This is a point you shouldn't forget: How are you going to read those media in ten years?

[Sterling_Aug]

Tapes are way slower than CD, DVD, or hard drives. The tapes stretch and break. Prices are more expensive than hard drives on a GB to GB comaprison (depending on brand of course).

[sm8000]

The tapes only stretch and break if you reuse them often, and I don't mind a slow backup if it's a reliable backup. I can cook and eat dinner while it runs.

One of these days I have to get around to setting up my Onstream ADR30 (SCSI) drive, and the seven tapes I got - all for under $100 from eBay.

Peter, how do you feel about DVD-RAM in the cartridge, is it a suitable option for backup or archiving?

[Alkali]

So if DVD's decay too quickly, and tapes don't last and are more expensive vs hard drives on a GB to GB basis, and don't have the money to keep buying hard drives, what's the solution?

And what's 'slow'? Can anyone give me a rough idea of bandwidth in MB's/second?

[Alkali]

I suppose I could just stop hoarding data :)

[Sterling_Aug]

Various tape speeds and density: Note the GB per hour rates

http://www.lascon.co.uk/d010003.htm

UDMA2 hard drive transfers at 66 MB/sec or 237 GB per hour.

[Alkali]

Cool, thanks for the link. I think tape is probably not the answer to my problems.

Hmm.. maybe I could go for blu-ray, but it won't be any more reliable than a DVD will it? I don't fancy losing 20GB in one hit :) Or maybe I really should just stick to high capacity hard drives.

Anyway, thanks all for the info and advice!

[Sterling_Aug]

Staples had 400GB IDE drives for $99 this week.

[Alkali]

That's a good price, but I'm in Europe so I'll have to try somewhere else :) What brand?

[Peter M]

Backups need to be lugged around. Connectors die, drives (particularly those el-cheapo IDE drives) are VERY susceptible to vibration and shock. Not good.

Sure, initial cost of tape solutions are high - but over the long term, media wear and data loss tip the balance the other way.

Speed is an increasing problem factor though, for any kind of backup - hard disk sizes have exploded, but transfer speed didn't follow anywhere close. Early PC hard disks had 20 MB and transferred .5 MB/s, while today's drives have 500GB and transfer 50 MB/s on average. So we got a 25,000-fold capacity increase but only 100-fold speed increase.

But the OP doesn't want BACKUP, he wants ARCHIVING.

For that, you need media that are stable over long term. Magneto-Optical (MO) is the only thing that springs to mind here.

[sm8000]

Could you elaborate more on DVD-RAM? I'm curious as to its pros and cons. I guess I need to know first what, if anything, makes it so special.

[sm8000]

Hello?

[Alkali]

How fast is MO?

[Steve R Jones]

http://www.fancysplace.com/smileys/google.gif
Is your friend!


DVD-RAM
A DVD format wherein DVD-RAM discs can be recorded and erased repeatedly but are only compatible with devices manufactured by the companies that support the DVD-RAM format. DVD-RAM discs are typically housed in cartridges. DVD-R, DVD-RW and DVD-RAM are supported by Panasonic, Toshiba, Apple Computer, Hitachi, NEC, Pioneer, Samsung and Sharp. These formats are also supported by the DVD Forum.



MO
(adj.) Short for magneto-optical, a type of data storage technology that combines magnetic disk technologies with optical technologies, such as those used in CD-ROMs. Like magnetic disks, MO disks can be read and written to. And like floppy disks, they are removable. However, their storage capacity can be more than 200 megabytes, much greater than magnetic floppies. In terms of data access speed, they are faster than floppies but not as fast as hard disk drives.

"The only online dictionary and search engine you need for computer and Internet technology." (http://www.pcwebopedia.com/)

[sm8000]

Neither of those answer our questions.

[loAol]

In terms of data access speed, they are faster than floppies but not as fast as hard disk drives.
kinda does... :rolleyes:

[Steve R Jones]

Neither of those answer our questions.

And in your spare time, you have since SEARCHED THE INTERNET and found______________________________? (fill in the blank)

[MJCfromCT]

http://www.capitolsales.com/info/tech-DVDRAM.aspx

Pros and Cons of the Different Camps- Why RAM is Basically Better

While all DVD formats out-perform VCR tapes, for the most part DVD-RAM offers the latest and greatest benefits of any format. The main problem with the DVD+RW format is that it records in a linear fashion like a VCR. DVD-RW is a little better in that it records in a scattered random format acting as a sort of hybrid VCR/DVD recorder. But a DVD-RAM recorder records information randomly, and rapidly, like a computer. Perhaps one of the most unique benefits of the DVD-RAM format, is that it allows the user to watch the beginning of a recording while the DVD recorder is still recording the end of the program.

Another plus is that the DVD-RAM disc format is supported by major hardware and media manufacturers and functions as a bridge format for compatibility with A/V and personal computing applications. Existing DVD-RAM discs that are formatted for PC or other media use can be reformatted for use with a DVD-RAM recorder.

Unlike RW and R formats, DVD-RAM does not have to be "finalized," a task that may take up to an hour. Additionally, DVD-RW and DVD+RW discs can be erased and re-recorded only 1,000 times, and the available recording time may decrease the more times the disk is re-recorded on. DVD-RAM discs, on the other hand, can be re-recorded up to 100,000 times without any decreased record times. Plus, with DVD-RAM, there is no chance of accidentally recording over something, as there is with other formats.

Although actual recording times vary from manufacturer to manufacturer, DVD-RAM recorders typically can record anywhere from one to six hours of material on a regular 4.7GB single-sided blank DVD, with about one to two hours of studio-quality video or up to six hours at VHS quality, depending on which recordable DVD format is used.

A few DVD-RAM recorders house a hard drive and a DVD recorder in the same unit, allowing the user to copy raw footage or record a series of programs to the hard drive and edit or copy smaller segments or the entire contents of the hard drive to a DVD.

Some DVD-RAM recorders also come with time-based correction and YC separation features that enable the user to hook up a VCR, transfer the taped material onto a blank DVD disc, and clean up the video quality of the old videotape.

[millwork]

That's a good price, but I'm in Europe so I'll have to try somewhere else What brand?They're not on sale now, but I believe they were Western Digital.
How fast is MO?Steve R Jones' post answers this question about as well as I've found. "In terms of data access speed, they are faster than floppies but not as fast as hard disk drives."Searches indicate specific speed is sketchy at best.

Neither of those answer our questions.Were not all your questions directed to Peter?

John B. :t

[Sterling_Aug]

The final bottom line answer is: There is no answer!

There is no "perfect" backup solution. Hard drives are the fastest, but most expensive.

CD/DVD ROMs are reasonabely fast but ddegrade over time and become unreadable.

Floppy can last 20+ Years (I have some from 1983 that still read fine) but they are extremely slow and time consuming.


It sounds like the best solution is a data storage rack with room for 12 or more hard drives. By the time you fill them all up, the technology should have changed and you can ask all these question all over again in 10 years.

[BipolarBill]

Could you elaborate more on DVD-RAM? I'm curious as to its pros and cons. I guess I need to know first what, if anything, makes it so special.Man - you know better than to hijack another member's thread. After breaking that rule, you have the nerve to be rude to the administrator?

What's up with you lately, sm8000?

[sm8000]

Lately?

[BipolarBill]

Just let this one rest or start a new thread.

[Alkali]

Well thanks everyone for the input. I've decided I'll just keep buying hard drives, and at the same time try to cut down on my data hoarding :)

[Sterling_Aug]

Good article on backups!

http://blogs.zdnet.com/Ou/index.php?p=267