Cold enough for you?

[zybch]

And you thought it got cold where you live (http://www.markdaviesmedia.com/cold)

[mireland]

I bet if you were to pee outside it would freeze instantly(the pee AND the wiener) :eek:

[leprechaun_40]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v721/gargoyle1/792708.jpg

[j.m@talk]

Does get a tad chilly round ya bitz here ........ -4°C this morn' .......... Its been months since I went outside (Other than to take out the trash) before lunch ;)

:t

[j.m@talk]

Whoa look at this bitta nonsence :D

http://alamaro.home.comcast.net/ice_rendering.jpg

The concept of winter ice manufacture (WIM) has been developed to:

* Address summer water shortages for communities in New England, the Great Plains and elsewhere.
* Provide an inexpensive alternative to reverse osmosis for desalination.
* Provide chilled water for assisting large air conditioning systems of commercial buildings.
* Create large ice and snow piles for commercial recreational activities such as summer ski resorts (as in Australia and Japan) and ice parks.

The concept calls for large masses of ice to be manufactured in the winter, close to existing water reservoirs, thereby increasing their effective capacity. During subfreezing atmospheric conditions, water will be sprayed into the air to produce ice, in a process similar to snowmaking. The pile of ice will be gradually melted during the spring and summer, providing a continuous supply of fresh water.

Current snowmaking technology uses machines to spray water into cold, dry air. Heat transfer and evaporation cool the water drops, as they fall. The existing process requires water to be atomized using high-pressure air and sprayed from a height of a few feet. This requires a high flow rate of high-pressure air both for fine atomization and initial spray cooling. In the proposed snowmaking process, however, the water is sprayed from a height of 200-300 feet, leading to an increase of about two orders of magnitude of the ice production rate compared to conventional snowmaking. The new method also eliminates the need for the compressed air.

Conventional snowmaking requires enormous amounts of energy for air compression used for water atomization. In the proposed process, spraying the water from high altitudes increases the free fall time of the drop. This enables increasing the water drop mass by two orders of magnitude compared to the mass of the drops in conventional snowmaking. Therefore, the new process allows spraying the water through inexpensive hydraulic nozzles, instead of using atomizers and energy-intensive compressed air.

Economic Development and Commercial potential: The entire system can be made either static or site–specific; alternatively mobile or portable systems can be constructed, requiring neither dedicated on-site equipment nor permanent construction. A company that owns the equipment can dispatch mobile systems to various municipalities under short-term contracts. Water authorities would pay a day rate or a fee based on the amount of ice produced. The mobile system approach increases the utilization rate of capital equipment, especially the high-head water pumps. Equipment could be relocated during the winter to areas with favorable weather conditions and the need for water or ice storage.

Inland locations such as in Minnesota would be an ideal location for pilot development and testing, due to favorable winter weather conditions. Also, hardware and facilities at existing ski areas might be accessed to minimize initial demonstration program costs. Target markets for operation will include Northern US states such as New England, Midwest and other areas where the system will be used for alleviating water storage, the creation of new year-round ski resorts and for cooling for a variety of industrial applications. Large scale farming in the Great Plains is a second market with potential longer-term impact. Small systems may also be used in gulf courses to store water from winter to summer. Draw down of the water table for irrigation is a continuing problem, and ice storage using winter precipitation may supplement the current pumped supply.

Engineering: This technology can be implemented using available and established hardware technologies. Performance and cost can be improved by addressing refinements in droplet freezing mechanisms. These refinements include new nucleation techniques to enhance and initiate the freezing process of super cooled water drops. Potential techniques for the production of ice crystals may include electro-freezing and/or the expansion of a dedicated small amount of compressed humid air.

The engineering development and refinement program will include the development of new insulation methods to prevent premature melt of the ice. It will also include new spraying techniques and the development of new control software to address successful operation during the ever-changing winter weather conditions. New de-icing and fog prevention techniques will also be developed.

Development Plan, Timetable and Budget: A demonstration development for eight months is planned for next winter. We seek now $600,000 for project initiation to start with the demonstration development. The demonstration will concentrate on two key technological milestone issues. The first is the dependency of the mass production rate of ice on the height from which water is sprayed. This demonstration can be accomplished using cranes to elevate the spraying nozzles as high as possible. The spraying can use simple inexpensive hydraulic nozzles instead of expensive atomizers since this concept allows for spraying relatively large water drops.

The second key issue for the initial phase of development is the production of ice crystals, which are required for the nucleation of supercooled water drops. This will be accomplished initially by expanding cold humid air through a variety of nozzle configurations (including existing snowgun hardware technologies). This development maybe done outdoors and/or in a climate room. The development will use borrowed equipment from ski resorts that expressed their willingness to collaborate and provide in-kind support.

The second phase of development will require both in-kind and cash investment. The in-kind will include contributions from partner companies, municipalities, suppliers and government agencies. The required cash investment for the second phase is estimated as $0.6- $1.0 million, depending on the level of in-kind contribution. In the second phase that will take 12 months, all other issues for development are in the category of system integration that do not pose technological risk. They include the development of an insulation quilt to prevent premature melting of ice, the prevention of icing on the spraying tower, the integration of weather data with operational control and the development of energy and recreational applications for the ice. Total development time for this program is estimated as 24 months. The total required cash and in-kind investment is estimated as $1.5-2.0 million

The program goal after 18-24 months is to transfer and franchise the commercial use of the technology to one or several companies with the technology becoming self-sustaining at that point.

SO NER NER NA NER NER :t

[werz]

Sub-zero temperatures, what are they?

[leprechaun_40]

Sposed to have a nasty weekend this weekend, a blizzard in fact. :eek: Good thing I have no plans and have some firewood! ;)

[j.m@talk]

Good thing I have no plans and have some firewood! ;)

Makes no nomatter ......... Send the Mrs out to chop some lawgs :D

Or shout at em to scare em off the treez & they'll jump in to the fire of their own accord ;)


:t

[zybch]

Sub-zero temperatures, what are they?


Um, any temp below the freezing point of water.
Now if it had said 'below sub-zero temps' you'd be right to question it, but as it is, you just make youself look silly.

[mireland]

Um, any temp below the freezing point of water.
Now if it had said 'below sub-zero temps' you'd be right to question it, but as it is, you just make youself look silly.


I think he meant like he's never been in a place that cold............he's still a silly twit though... :D

[zybch]

I think he was trying to be a smartbottom.
Dunnow what show it was, but some git got screen time for pointing out that temperatures below sub zero are still just sub zero.

[porsch1909]

I think he meant like he's never been in a place that cold............he's still a silly twit though... :D


That's what I thought he meant too :)


(We agree on something landooo ;) )

[mireland]

(We agree on something landooo ;) )


wow! I guess hell DID freeze over.. :D

[j.m@talk]

I think he was trying to be a smartbottom.

Well Hello :cool:

Did ya know that sea water freezing point is -1.8°C........... Well I didn't ........ Ya lerns summink new every day.

Werzy baby knows bout sub zero all right :t

[zybch]

Depends entirely on the concentration of salts and minerals.

[mireland]

anything below 35 degrees might as well be freakin' below zero! :mad:

[zybch]

Not if you use an understandable and sensible temp scale like Celsius.

[j.m@talk]

I never really gave it much thought........ Am I about to challenge the guy that said that on the tv ....... No ...... Why ?....... I don't give a toss .......... But it explains how ya can dive in sub zero water & not come to a sudden & painful grinding halt on contact with the waters surface :t

[mireland]

Not if you use an understandable and sensible temp scale like Celsius.

oh do shut up... :p

[j.m@talk]

35 degree Fahrenheit = 1.6666667 degree Celsius

:-@

http://www.onlineconversion.com/

[zybch]

How can you get any more sensible than 0=water freezing, and 100=water boiling?
What the hell is with 32-212 being the scale from water freezing to it boiling?
It makes absolutley NO sense at all.

[mireland]

How can you get any more sensible than 0=water freezing, and 100=water boiling?
What the hell is with 32-212 being the scale from water freezing to it boiling?
It makes absolutley NO sense at all.


nothing we Americans do makes any sense...THAT'S what makes sense.. :t

[j.m@talk]

Y0 Mommas :D

[mireland]

Y0 Mommas :D


yo queen momma! :rolleyes:

[zybch]

Just be thankful that we don't use the Delisle scale.

[mireland]

Just be thankful that we don't use the Delisle scale.


never heard of it...I'll take yer word on that... :confused:

[j.m@talk]

English units

The term English units refers to one of a number of systems of units of measurement, some obsolete, and some still in use. In spite of the name, it does not necessarily refer to the (non-SI) system of units still in intermittent use in England itself. In fact, the latter is often known outside the United States as the Imperial System.

Various different standards under the name 'English units' have applied at different times, in different places and for different things. Prior to the Battle of Hastings in 1066 the Anglo-Saxon system of measurement had been based on the units of the barleycorn and the gyrd (rod). This system presumably had Germanic origins. After the Norman conquest Roman units were reintroduced. The resultant system of English units was a combination of the Anglo-Saxon and Roman systems.

Later development of the English system continued by defining the units by law in the Magna Carta of 1215, and issuing measurement standards from the then capital Winchester. Standards were renewed in 1496, 1588 and 1758. The last Imperial Standard Yard in bronze was made in 1845; it served as the standard in the United Kingdom until the yard was internationally redefined as 0.9144 metre in 1959 (statutory implementation: Weights and Measures Act of 1963).

The use of English units spread throughout the British Isles and to the British colonies. These units form the basis for the Imperial system formerly used in Commonwealth countries and U.S. customary system used in the United States of America. Whilst these two systems are quite similar there are a number of notable differences between the Imperial and U.S. systems.

The Systeme International [S I]
Category Name Abbrev.

Length metre m
Mass kilogram kg
Time second s
Electric current ampere A
Temperature kelvin K
Amount of substance mole mol
Luminous intensity candela cd

[mireland]

)-| )-| )-|

[zybch]

never heard of it...I'll take yer word on that... :confused:

Its a kind of reverse scale.
Surface of the sun = −8140
Water Freezing = 150
Absolute Zero = 559.725


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fahrenheit

[j.m@talk]

& Change those equi sized grotty green bank notes too whilst yas at it ......... Ya need a new pruddy design ......... That really would be a case of "Have Pidgeons Apply Cat"

How many greasy lil Herberts would turn up with wheelbarrow loads of booty............ "Home to roost" ? I should Coca

"Q" some dipso bangin' on bout how wonderful polymer banknotes are :rolleyes:


:t

[zybch]

I like colourful money. You needn't have polymer notes for that.

[j.m@talk]

Dipso Facto Mon Petit Pois :t

[porsch1909]

How can you get any more sensible than 0=water freezing, and 100=water boiling?
What the hell is with 32-212 being the scale from water freezing to it boiling?
It makes absolutley NO sense at all.


You're talking more crud than normal zibbster!!

How can you get more sensible??

How about the kelvin scale? Which is, to be honest, the true temperature scale. Where 0 is actually as low as you can get! I mean imagine 0 not bieng the lowest possible thing....then going lower than 0 by another 273 degree before you get to absolute 0....seems pretty retarded to me :rolleyes:

Kelvin scale

Absolute zero = 0 Kelvin

freezing point of water = 273 kelvin

And JMster is right. Salty water does freeze below 0 degree centigrade. That's how grit trucks work. The tires on cars create heat due to friction between the tire and ice, so the ice melts. Then the water and salt mixes together and hopefully the water doesn't freeze over again. That's why colder countries can't use grit for the roads, because it gets well below the temperature for salt water freezing!

[zybch]

Perhaps if we were ammonia based organisms or silicon then a different scale might be sensible, but as we're mainly water, what better range of 0-100 than what happens to water?

The whole world uses Celsius but the US still insists on using the old F scale. Its just silly.
They were fast enough to change to decimal currency, so why not change to a sensible temp scale.

[porsch1909]

I see no sense in 0 no being the lowest value :rolleyes:

[zybch]

Depends what your frame of reference is.

[j.m@talk]

Even the UK has ditched the old way of measuring temp....... Which is real odd

[leprechaun_40]

Zero Kelvin, much more fun ;)

[zybch]

But kind of difficult to get to, no matter how big your freezer is.

Question: How do we know that there can be no temp lower than 0 Kelvin? There seems to be no upper limit to temp, so why is there a lower limit?

[j.m@talk]

There was this black dude on Eastenders called Kelvin ............ Just thought ya'd all like to know :t

[mireland]

There was this black dude on Eastenders called Kelvin ............ Just thought ya'd all like to know :t


well that certainly shines some light onto this subject...................................herbert! :D

[porsch1909]

But kind of difficult to get to, no matter how big your freezer is.

Question: How do we know that there can be no temp lower than 0 Kelvin? There seems to be no upper limit to temp, so why is there a lower limit?


Heat is a measure of how quickly the molecules in something are moving. At 0 Kelvin it is said that they cease to move. Hence the object cannot get any colder.

Nothing has been cooled to 0 Kelvin yet.

[mireland]

Heat is a measure of how quickly the molecules in something are moving. At 0 Kelvin it is said that they cease to move. Hence the object cannot get any colder.

Nothing has been cooled to 0 Kelvin yet.


oohhh that Kelvin is soooo cool... :p

[j.m@talk]

Does that Kelvin know Kelvin Carpenter from Eastenders ?

[zybch]

What about electrons orbiting their nucleus??
They gotta still be moving right, or else the atoms would fly apart or something interesting.

[porsch1909]

Nothing gotta happen. In theory (since it's never been done in practise) Nothing will move at 0 Kelvin.

[zybch]

You can't suddenly have subatomic particles stop moving.
The universe will blow up or something.

[mireland]

You can't suddenly have subatomic particles stop moving.
The universe will blow up or something.


that would just be too too bad... :x

[zybch]

Yeah, what a shame.

[porsch1909]

Who said suddenly? YOu can't suddenly drop a temperature....dropping temperature is gradual...

[zybch]

Rubbish. You ever seen when someone everyone hates enters a room the temp drops immediatley.
In fact, the temp-drop propogation rate can occur faster than the speed of light.

[porsch1909]

I give up :rolleyes:

[zybch]

thats the ticket!

[porsch1909]

Ferk

[mireland]

Ferk


ha ha..like watching tennis.. :t

[leprechaun_40]

Well it's not too cold but we did get a foot and a half of snow yesterday, ferk me running. :eek: ;)

[zybch]

I ain't seen snow cept on the telly/computer for close to 15 years.
Thats good for the most part, but it'd be nice to have a couple of feet every few years, just to keep things interesting.
I certainly wouldn't want anything like in those photos though.

[mireland]

snow sucks...

[j.m@talk]

snow sucks...

So Do J0000000 Fo-Mo :D

[mireland]

So Do J0000000 Fo-Mo :D


nut sucker! :mad:

[j.m@talk]

View my chuddies :t

[porsch1909]

View my chuddies :t


Goodness gracious me! :D

[j.m@talk]

;)

[werz]

Well Hello :cool:

Did ya know that sea water freezing point is -1.8°C........... Well I didn't ........ Ya lerns summink new every day.

Werzy baby knows bout sub zero all right :t

Ya dam right I do, we live in a big world with lots of variation, thats why I CHOOSE to live in a warm, semi-civilised area of it.

[j.m@talk]

Ya dam right I do, we live in a big world with lots of variation, thats why I CHOOSE to live in a warm, semi-civilised area of it.


Thats rude ....... Walking around yas home land wiv a semi-on :D


:t

[leprechaun_40]

Yas knows it's cold when the brass monkey wants in :eek: ;)

[mobo57]

Was 84 F here yesterday. Thats 28.8 C, 543.6 R, 23.1 r and 302 K for all the rest of yas. Toasty!!!

[j.m@talk]

I got my kitty & piles of money to keep me warm :rolleyes:

[mireland]

I got my kitty & piles of money to keep me warm :rolleyes:


more like got yer money and piles of kitty to keep you warm... :p

[j.m@talk]

Its quite warm in here ....... its 12:30 & the windows open, I'm sat here in shorts ..... (Only) & the heating goes off at 9:00 .......... So I guess its quite warm out there ....... Mind you this house has a fantastic "R" rating :)

[mireland]

Its quite warm in here ....... its 12:30 & the windows open, I'm sat here in shorts ..... (Only) & the heating goes off at 9:00 .......... So I guess its quite warm out there ....... Mind you this house has a fantastic "R" rating :)

colder then a witches t*t here... :mad:

[werz]

On my personal comfort meter, it's 27c with 67% humidity, at 8.17pm.
with no heating or cooling, only a little desk fan blowing caressing waves of cool air across my naked body, I know you all needed to know that last bit. ;)

[j.m@talk]

http://www.fancysplace.com/smileys/smiley_vomi.gif

[mobo57]

Right now it's 67F, with a little breeze. Left work early, my b-day, gonna bbq some fresh ahi and some veggies...ummm... Sitting out on the patio now, cold Guiness in one hand and a single malt in the other... Went surfing this morning. Air was low 60's, water about 62 or so. 3 to 4 foot, clean and fun.
Just a typical day in SoCal. Whats it like in your neighborhood jm???? Any bikini babes on the beach?
Coldest winter I ever spent was a spring day in London... :p

[j.m@talk]

It was nasty today ............ The sun was out (Rarity) but it was really cold ........ & more to the point windy & cold ............. So I spent a few hrs twiddling with this Hyundai ......... Then found I had the wrong spares (Drum brakes ...... I hate em) ...... So I had to be a lil creative ;) ............. All is hunky dorey now tho .......... I'll be fine when I warm up ............. I didn't have enough clothes on :(

[mireland]

It was nasty today ............ The sun was out (Rarity) but it was really cold ........ & more to the point windy & cold ............. So I spent a few hrs twiddling with this Hyundai ......... Then found I had the wrong spares (Drum brakes ...... I hate em) ...... So I had to be a lil creative ;) ............. All is hunky dorey now tho .......... I'll be fine when I warm up ............. I didn't have enough clothes on :(


go hug yer kat... :eek:

[j.m@talk]

My Mog is ensuring my lap is kept warm @ the mo' :t