Theater System - Open to suggestions

[jjinno]

This is what I have:

4 x KLH-911B Bookshelf speakers (100W each)
1 x Crown CE-1000 Power Amplifier



This is what I need to get:

1 x Home Theater Surround Sound Receiver (of some kind)
1 x Subwoofer
1 x Center Speaker



Any suggestions? Cause Im looking to add a little boom to my room :D

Budget <= $500

[zybch]

Depends on how big the room is. An off the shelf amp/receiver from Sony or one of the other main brands will do just fine. The rated wattage is pretty irrelevant (just avoid anything that is rated in PMPO), even an amp rated at 80W is going to be way more powerful than you'll need.
As for the speakers, the best thing you can do is to listen to as many as possible and make your choice based on that.

[Happy Joe]

Is this for your computer (gaming is a treat with 500 -1000w of sound) or just for movies/ tv?
I ususually haunt the stores like Best Buy and wait for last years models to go on sale. It sounds like you're going with 5.1, this can be cheaper than going with 7.2, but you should consider both.

Don't just buy speakers but look at the warranties and listen to them while playing the kind of music that you like. I usually force the sales guy to run the speakers flat (no base/trebble boost or equalization) then pick the ones that sound the best. (once you decide wait for a sale and save a buck or three).

If you like to experiment you can have fun making your own speakers... After a few beers a friend and I made an 8+ foot tall subwoofer out of some 12.5 inch wide 33 inch mud tires and a pair of 15" woofers. It worked so well that we had to call our friends to come over (with more beer) ... just to listen to the neighbors house rattle.

Enjoy!

[zybch]

The wattage doesn't mean squat! Anyone telling you that it does is an imbicile who doesn't understand a thing about sound quality.
I used to only have 80W speakers and it was painful to even run them at 1/3 the level my amp could pump out (and it was only a 120W amp).
Its far more about how the speakers are made (materials, enclosure design, crossovers etc) than their rated output.

7.2 is a complete wank, unless you are trying to fill an entire hall the extra sub won't be noticed. It is a definite step up from a 5.1 system though, even though most DVDs are still 5.1
A properly constructed 5.1 soundfield will still sound as good as a lot of 7.1 movies though.

DTS is a nice extra, although the increased bass is realy the only thing you notice. DTS is realy just a trick to fool the uneducated listener that their system sounds better than standard Dolby Digital.
Sure, the sound is encoded at a higher bitrate but this generally isn't all that apparent, the guys who developed the DTS standard knew this so they decided to artificially bump up the low frequencies and so trick people into believing that DTS sounded best. You can crank up the bass on a normal DD track and get exactly the same effect.
Quality isn't in the volume as way too many people believe, but in the accurate reproduction of what was originally recorded/mixed.

Just so you know, I set up home theatre systems as a sideline to my main job. I deal with lots of different amps, projectors, speakers etc, and they all have their good and bad points. Whats important is that you choose something that is good for YOU, not what some pimply salesperson tries to sell you.
PM me and I can email you a few useful PDFs relating to speaker placement and stuff like that which is so often done incorrectly.

[cdroman]

$500 is a pretty small budget for home theater. Yamaha makes nice receivers even at the lower end. You could use your crown amp with an SVS passive sub http://www.svsubwoofers.com/subs_cs_25-31.htm , but $379 is the starting point for these excellent subwoofers. HSU http://www.hsustore.com/stf1.html and Dayton http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber=300-760 also have good subs. Start with a receiver and a sub and save your money up for a center, mains and surrounds (preferably from the same manufacturer) at a later date. Adding a good subwoofer will clean up your mains and add a fullness to your sound.
zybch is right about wattage; it is pretty meaningless. Sensitivity is more helpfull as it gives you an idea of how loud a speaker can play at 1 watt. A low sensitivity speaker ( 80 db/w/m ) will take a great deal of power to play loud, whereas a high sensitivity speaker ( 90db/w/m and up ) will play loud with little power. Virtually any high quality speaker can handle peaks far greater than the wattage ratings given to them. My mains are rated at 100 watts but can easily handle peaks of several hundred watts.
If this is just for a computer then stick with the lower end computer stuff. But I'm taking that since you have a Crown amp that this is for home theater. Don't skimp on the sub if it is for home theater; you won't be sorry if you get a good one. :t

[zybch]

If its just for a PC, just get an audigy 2 ZS and a set of Creative's 7.1 speakers. I use the T7700s and they are great.
You'll have enough cash left over for a game or two and a couple of DVDs :)

[Strawbs]

1. SONY make some low-cost decoders that work pretty well.

2. You can use a cars "bandpass" type subwoofer for cheap and powerful bass!

3. The Centre speaker needs to be designed for vocal reproduction - not a typical "bookshelf" type box - or it will ruin the whole ambience!

[genesound]

Don't scrimp on yer subs!

I built two of these (http://www.rythmikaudio.com/servo_product.htm), in sealed 2.1 cu ft boxes, but one would prolly be ok for you.

They're flat to 16Hz on Smaart Live (http://www.siasoft.com/) :t

[Strawbs]

for the record:

I didn't mean that he should skimp on the sub - I just pointed out that he could get more volume from a less powerful amp with a bandpass box! But sound quality won't match a that of a $uper$ub

[genesound]

for the record:

I didn't mean that he should skimp on the sub - I just pointed out that he could get more volume from a less powerful amp with a bandpass box! But sound quality won't match a that of a $uper$ub
Well of course... hadn't intended to allude so. :t

[jjinno]

just for some more info...

I already own two speakers that I built for a Highschool project...

You can see them here (http://users.wpi.edu/~jjinno/test/speakers/)

They have:
- 600W subs (~40-2000Hz) - (89dB??)
- 2x200W mids (~1500-5000Hz) - (92dB)
- 400W high (~4000Hz-25kHz) - (104dB)

With only my CE1000, I can power any of the following options:
- 2 ranges on one speaker or two (the biguns)
- Just the 2 subs
- 4 bookshelf KLHs
- 2 bookshelf & 1 sub (mono all)

I am getting rid of them only because it has been hard for me to fiddle around with my amp, my mixer, and all input devices....hence the idea of getting a Reciever that can take care of my speaker woes...

I did realize that the center was different from the surrounds, and that obviously the sub is different too :p My biggest thing is getting something to work WELL rather than a whole lot of stuff that works only mediocre

[cdroman]

jjinno:

Use the CE1000 to power the SVS passive sub. Pick up a surround sound receiver of your choice, connect the subwoofer pre-out from the reciever to the CE1000, and the CE1000 to the SVS. Add a KLH center to your 4 KLH's and you should be set to go. If you can afford it, pick up the 16-46CS Subwoofer for truly visceral bass response.(for the price).

[Strawbs]

That box of yours looks like a Goodmans Jamo. :D

[jjinno]

The speaker cabs are based off an EV pro-audio speaker...FRX series I believe...I changed their 2-way into a 3-way, accounting for optimal volume of the cabinets. Or at least I did to the best of my abilities.

[zybch]

What frequencies did you set the crosovers at? You did use crossovers right :rolleyes:

[jjinno]

What frequencies did you set the crosovers at? You did use crossovers right :rolleyes:

HAHAHAHAHA.....you think I had money for that kind of equipment in High School??? :D

I did/do crossover in the pre-amp stage. Its easier. :p

The theory was that I might get 2 more amps and eventually power all 3 ranges... now its more un-needed baggage than anything, thus my interest in a newer better system.

[zybch]

Theres no point in doing them in anything but the speakers.
You need to be able to direct different frequencies to the different drivers and theres no way to do that in the amp itself.

[genesound]

Well, bi or tri-amping is certainly preferable for a no holes barred system, but passive speaker level crossovers are way cheaper since you only need one amp channel per speaker system. You can build your own crossovers, but you'll need to do some research on the inet, and maybe buy some crossover design software, and then the parts. I used to use a piece called Boxplot by Rick Carlson. The paid version had some good crossover calculators that I would take the values and with the help of some other impedance calculators, modify the design and then listen and adjust values until I found what worked best. I actually built and sold several different models, prolly 500 units in all, for P.A. use. Making just a few is a lot of r&d compared to the time to build, but it can be done. You can also buy some pre-built stuff from Speaker City, Madisound, or Parts Express. You might get lucky and be satisfied with a stocker, but more likely if you do some research you can modify them to suit without spending too much more. :t

[Happy Joe]

Bi and tri amping with active crossovers has a long history in with audiophiles, it is practical and excelant results are possible, but it is mostly popular with those who like to try for that last 2% in sound quality and those who like to constantly mess with their systems.
For ease of use, as you have percieved, a brand name 5.1 or 7.x reciever is probbly the way to go. Do get adequate power in the reciever. Low power equipment can blow quite high power rated drivers if the amp is driven to clipping by explosions or excessive levels (this is more a problem with the cheaper recievers than the brand names but any amp can be made to clip if you drive it hard enough, and if it doen't have circuitry to protect the drivers and output transistors). The use of a seperatly powered sub will reduce the strain on your reciever by letting the sub supply most of the power and the reciever supply the higher frequency sounds (this is the whole point of bi-amped setups, as you undoubtedly know).
KLH is an adequate brand, nothing wrong with 'em if you like their sound. I use 'em for gaming and non critical listening and they have performed very well for the price.
Enjoy!

[jjinno]

Im looking at a SONY Receiver...kinda overkill at 7.1, but for $214 it seems to offer enough inputs/outputs, etc...

SONY STR-DE698/B (http://www.jr.com/JRProductPage.process?Product=4028737)

If someone has a better suggestion for better price, I only know what Im hooking to it, so other than that Im only going by the previous suggestions.

Also I am looking at the following center channel speaker...

KLH 525II Center Channel Speaker (http://www.jr.com/JRProductPage.process?Product=4010755)

Lemme know what you think before I go running of and buying myself a stupid decision...

And hey, maybe with the money I get from selling my speaker cabs, along with the remaining $210 from my $500 budget I can get one of those cool SVS subs... wowza though, 46 inches tall.... or even the small one 32 inches... :eek:

[cdroman]

Bi-amping, tri-amping; he's got a $500 budget not $10,000. The bi-amping, tri-amping active crossover route is usually done by audiophiles with deep pockets. They usually have main speakers which cost a few thousand bucks and electronics another few thousand.(or more) The audiophiles really like SVS subwoofers and many use them in their high end systems.
I wouldn't bother with the home made high school speakers. Start with the receiver and good sub and save up for better speakers at a later date. There are many excellent speakers around nowdays, JBL, KEF, B&W, Paradigm, Energy, Klipsch, etc. But any of the better sounding speakers are usually going to start around $200-$300 for the center channel alone ( high end considerably higher); and that isn't in your budget. You have gone to a separate amp with the Crown which shows that you may be a budding audiophile down the road. Take your time and get good products. I would stay away from the home theater in a box if you tend to never be satisfied with what you've got (an audiphlie trait). The people here a pretty knowledgeable, but if you want extra advice from audio experts http://www.soundandvisionmag.com/idealbb/default.asp?sessionID=50DBB57608614D85A9D29A56BD8A 8C2F is a good place to go ask more questions. :t

[cdroman]

Im looking at a SONY Receiver...kinda overkill at 7.1, but for $214 it seems to offer enough inputs/outputs, etc...

SONY STR-DE698/B (http://www.jr.com/JRProductPage.process?Product=4028737)

If someone has a better suggestion for better price, I only know what Im hooking to it, so other than that Im only going by the previous suggestions.

Also I am looking at the following center channel speaker...

KLH 525II Center Channel Speaker (http://www.jr.com/JRProductPage.process?Product=4010755)

Lemme know what you think before I go running of and buying myself a stupid decision...

And hey, maybe with the money I get from selling my speaker cabs, along with the remaining $210 from my $500 budget I can get one of those cool SVS subs... wowza though, 46 inches tall.... or even the small one 32 inches... :eek:


Those look good for now. You can't go wrong with the SVS; go to the audio forum I gave a link to and ask them about the SVS subs.

[genesound]

Bi-amping, tri-amping; he's got a $500 budget not $10,000. The bi-amping, tri-amping active crossover route is usually done by audiophiles with deep pockets. They usually have main speakers which cost a few thousand bucks and electronics another few thousand.(or more) The audiophiles really like SVS subwoofers and many use them in their high end systems.
jjinno, the impression I got is that you already made your own active crossovers and no longer wish to go that route...

I wouldn't bother with the home made high school speakers. I wish I'd had that advice 35 years ago, I could have avoided my audio career had I not sold my high scool woodshop project to a recording engineer decades ago :eek:

Start with the receiver and good sub and save up for better speakers at a later date. There are many excellent speakers around nowdays, JBL, KEF, B&W, Paradigm, Energy, Klipsch, etc. But any of the better sounding speakers are usually going to start around $200-$300 for the center channel alone ( high end considerably higher); and that isn't in your budget. You have gone to a separate amp with the Crown which shows that you may be a budding audiophile down the road. Take your time and get good products. I would stay away from the home theater in a box if you tend to never be satisfied with what you've got (an audiphlie trait). The people here a pretty knowledgeable, but if you want extra advice from audio experts http://www.soundandvisionmag.com/idealbb/default.asp?sessionID=50DBB57608614D85A9D29A56BD8A 8C2F is a good place to go ask more questions. :t
Agreed. You can also check round the AR forum (http://forums.audioreview.com/search.php?do=getnew) :t

[zybch]

Im looking at a SONY Receiver...kinda overkill at 7.1, but for $214 it seems to offer enough inputs/outputs, etc...

No such thing!

[zybch]

This is interesting, and quite true.
The top 5 home audio mistakes:

http://reviews.designtechnica.com/guide32.html

[jjinno]

No such thing!

Which part? And are you saying that I shouldnt get it?

[MJCfromCT]

I think he is saying that there is no such thing as "enough inputs/outputs" ;)

[j.m@talk]

INPUT
http://www.delos.fantascienza.com/imgbank/94/iorobot/treleggi/number5.jpg

This is prolly a old moovy now :(

[Strawbs]

I think he is saying that there is no such thing as "enough inputs/outputs" ;)If that's what he meant - I have to concur! There's always something else to add later that doesn't have a "labelled" socket!

The back of my Pre-Amp\AV\Reciever is full to bursting, I had to plug my Computer I\O's into my EQ. :eek:

[j.m@talk]

I had to plug my Computer I\O's into my EQ. :eek:

WFS :rolleyes:

[Happy Joe]

one of those cool SVS subs... wowza though, 46 inches tall.... or even the small one 32 inches...
Some times good things come in bigger packages... the first sub that I built (based on Theil's equations) some 30 years ago was about 50 inches tall and at 16 cubic feet was bigger than some refrigerators... with a 15" driver it had flat response to just below 20Hz. When powered by a bridged entertainment amp through a self designed active crossover. Not bad for the late 70's (this is the one that opened all of the wallboad seams in the apartment).
I always rate power in RMS terms all chanels driven, watch out for the amps rated in peak or other momentary power ratings.
The notion that "you don't need all that power" may be correct from a level stand point, however when you look at the distorion numbers of high power amps when running at lower levels they will typically have less harmonic and intermodulation distortion while retaining the overhead to respond to sudden level changes (resulting in bettter sound and performance).
It all comes down to your ears and what sounds good to you.
I did my first Bi amp set up at 16 for about $60... they dont have to cost alot, and the benefits can be helpful at low budget levels.
Enjoy!

Trust your ears... listen to the speaker in question, with your favorite music on an amp that has similart power ratings and is set to flat response (no bass or trebble boost or other equalization). Buy it only if you like it. It will sound different (different room acoustics) when you get it home (use the equalization adjustment on your reciever to balance out the differances)

[zybch]

I think he is saying that there is no such thing as "enough inputs/outputs" ;)

Thats what I was saying alright!
I've had to use an external switchbox coz none of my amps have enough innies for me!