Heart of the matter.

[herosrest]

This news item is worthy of serioous debate - or so l think.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/nottinghamshire/4209404.stm

The underlying issues are deep and profound.

Starter for ten... who in a democracy has the right to concoct and enforce law.

Quote

"But Dr Hashim Sulaiman, of the Liverpool Islamic Institute, said: "There is no way a Muslim girl should be playing any part in this in this competition because it is unlawful.""

[cwin]

Maybe the muslim leaders should stop worrying about things people do that are against Islamic law in a non-Islamic country..

[herosrest]

That was my thought.
Religion is not above the law but you would not expect to have to point that out.

[Strawbs]

This news item is worthy of serioous debate - or so l think.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/nottinghamshire/4209404.stm

The underlying issues are deep and profound.

Starter for ten... who in a democracy has the right to concoct and enforce law.

Quote

"But Dr Hashim Sulaiman, of the Liverpool Islamic Institute, said: "There is no way a Muslim girl should be playing any part in this in this competition because it is unlawful.""Since the person is a Muslim the issue lies with that persons beliefs! A devout Muslim should know already what is against their religion & should act according to their faith! If they then act in a manner that conflicts with their chosen\given religion & their religeous leaders disagree with the persons actions that person should be ex-communicated.

They have no legal recourse for prosecution or persecution in this Country. :cool:

[herosrest]

The thinking that produced the quote is for the individual - choosing to represent those thoughts as 'lawful' should be punishable by UK law.

Religion in UK is not above the law.

[porsch1909]

I think what the Hashim guy is getting at is.....

That by entering the competition it is against Islam. And you can't pick and choose which parts of a religion you want to follow. So what he is saying is that you can't call yourself and Muslim and go against the laws of Islam. Well you can, but it is just fundementally wrong...

In then end the Hashim guy has no say whatsoever in what an independant person does....

[herosrest]

So where does this guy derive his 'perceived' authority.
What he espouses is plain and simple victimisation.

It is perhaps time for an oath of allegiance for UK residents. :rolleyes:

[porsch1909]

He has no authority over anyone to be completely honest.TO be a Muslim you don't need to pass any test or anything, so he has no rule over this girl.

But showing your body of is against the teachings of the quaran and it is one of the fundamentals along with not drinking alocohol or eating pork.....I think that is what he is trying to say in his twisted dilusions of grandeur method :rolleyes:

[herosrest]

It's a sad world. That is discrimination and l am surprised the courts aren't over flowing - but at the bottom of it all l guess it comes down to family.

[porsch1909]

If they brought her up with a proper Muslim teaching she would never dream of doing this to be honest.

But the fact is that you choose your own life and ure family is just there to guide you along the path that they beleive is right. Just because she is brown and from Iraq doesn't mean she has to be a Muslim.....

Not all brown people are Muslim and not all Muslims are brown....

[cwin]

Religions are weird things... not many people follow them exactly.

Christians sometimes lie, for example, Santa. Technically, while it may be a white lie, it is a lie, and considered a sin, right?

People don't always follow a religion because they think every single bit of it is absolutely correct. Lying is sometimes better (for both parties) than the truth, and the bible has some very weird things in it written by the disciples. They might follow it because they like the way of thinking and that way of life, or they think that it's mostly true, afterlife, spirituality...

I know the point of covering the body is to not be objectified and stared at by men, and it's quite an important part of the religion, however the particular individual has the right to not follow that particular teaching if they disagree with it.

[genesound]

It's Dr Hashim Sulaiman publicly stickin his nose where it's apparently not wanted.

Why would "Muslim leaders" do such a thing publicly, if they didn't want to start a row?

[fancyf]

Welcome to the world of extremes... too strick, not enough strick.
Isn't there any logical "just middle"? :confused:
It's enough to create a society full of stress, depression,.... oh wait it's like that already. :rolleyes:

The disillusionned ironic fatalists say: No one comes out alive from this life!


I wonder what she will decide...


(sarcastic or ironic? salut cwin http://www.fancysplace.com/smileys/awwf.gif)

[herosrest]

Cwin, have you ever considered the challenges our legal system offers.
It is one of the places people can make a difference.

[genesound]

I'm not so sure this is extreme. What she is doing apparently goes against Islam and the Quran, and she would already know this. What is out of place is this "leader" calling her out publicly to score himself some points and make a big stink, instead of trying to council her personally.

Not so sure there is such a thing as excommunication in Islam. Maybe you can enlighten us porsch?

[herosrest]

l have issue here, UK tradition differs significantly from many teachings.
In such circumstance the individual is precedent.

This is social and moral bullying - victimisation on the strength of what? ;)

[j.m@talk]

http://www.fancysplace.com/images/misc/14eo/cake9yz.png

[herosrest]

Oysters r lovely!

[genesound]

Spicy Albacore roll wiv baked mussels in garlic sauce for dessert!

[j.m@talk]

All this talk of sea food is about to make me barf .................. Muscles a plain puketrid....... Albacore ....... umm dunno what that is .......... Sounds like it has dropped out of somthings bum tho :D

Oysters ........... Thems just pain weired ........ Not quite gross bt close ......... I had quite a few Bluff Oysters once ....... I was sozzled at the time .......... I think they gave me the poopz to be honnest ;)

Nuffink new there :D

[herosrest]

:D plop :D

[j.m@talk]

:D plop :D


Nooo, more of a KERWHOOSH SPLAT ......... PITTER PATTER :eek:

[genesound]

...... Albacore ....... umm dunno what that is .......... :DThunnus Alalunga (http://seafood.ucdavis.edu/pubs/albacorefishery.htm) a kinda tuna :t

[herosrest]

Utterly rivetting. Looks similar to Tunny. http://www.flmnh.ufl.edu/fish/Gallery/Descript/LittleTunny/LittleTunny.html


It's a name, both in fact, used by the us navy. Submarines l think.
l seem to remember a USS Albacore as a notable participant of the Pacific war.

http://www.submarinesailor.com/store/USSAlbacore.htm


Her record of enemy combatant ships sunk it the best of any U.S. submarine
http://www.csp.navy.mil/ww2boats/albacore.htm rip.

[genesound]

Hit a mine :(

RIP SS 218

[j.m@talk]

Toona :eek: Yas can't eat toona, they kill flipper :(

[mireland]

Toona :eek: Yas can't eat toona, they kill flipper :(


we could eliminate the middle man and eat flipper! :D

[j.m@talk]

You never watch lethal Weapon 1 ?

:eek:

[herosrest]

we could eliminate the middle man and eat flipper! :D

Flipper is a fish?

[genesound]

no, a mammal ;)

[j.m@talk]

Dolphin .......... They catch dolphins in there nets when fishin fer toona :(

[genesound]

Yeah, but not so wiv albacore :t

[herosrest]

So the albacore is smarter. :D

[genesound]

Yeah, they're old school :D

[j.m@talk]

Pitney wants to kill flipper :(

:eek:

:t

[herosrest]

GROW UP

[Strawbs]

how did we get from religious bigots to flipper again? - I musta missed the link! :eek:

[j.m@talk]

GROW UP

Ahhh Shaddap :rolleyes:

[porsch1909]

Not so sure there is such a thing as excommunication in Islam. Maybe you can enlighten us porsch?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Takfir

That link tells you pretty much all you need to know about excommunication (Takfir) in Islam...but these sorts of thing only IMHO apply in the tribal times....


"Some fanatics might say entering a beauty contest is wrong because you are putting yourself up to be judged by your physical appearance - but my family supports me." - the contestant

:rolleyes: she doesn't actually try to argue that it is not wrong under islamic teachings just says that her family supports her....so from reading the article to me it sounds as if she knows it is against the teachings of Islam, but wants to go ahead anyway.....


Which is fine. I mean just because her parents are Muslim and she originates from a country where everyone is muslim (apart from the troops) doesn't mean she has to be muslim as well...

[j.m@talk]

how did we get from religious bigots to flipper again? - I musta missed the link! :eek:

Who do yas fink ;)


:t

[herosrest]

Skill - pints of it. :D

[mireland]

I like cake..I hate tuna! :D

[Strawbs]

your link suggests that members of terrorist organisations are "non-believers" because they deny murder is a sin???

[herosrest]

oyster?

[Strawbs]

my head hurts ..:x

[porsch1909]

your link suggests that members of terrorist organisations are "non-believers" because they deny murder is a sin???

I think the Muslim community in britain has gone a long long way since 9/11 and particularyl the 7th of July to denounce torrorism as un-islamic. They have declared Fatwa's against the terrorists even....


'Islamic Terrorist' is an oxymoron......full stop. (period if your American :p)

[herosrest]

:D

[j.m@talk]

oyster?

As "Arthur Daley" (George Cole) Once said: "The world is your Lobster"

:t

http://news.bbc.co.uk/olmedia/1255000/images/_1257911_daley_150.jpg

[mireland]

I don't like oysters..I like cake...pie is acceptable... :r

[j.m@talk]

I don't like oysters..I like cake...pie is acceptable... :r

Oyster en-croute ? :cool:

[mireland]

Oyster en-croute ? :cool:


no! :mad:

[j.m@talk]

no! :mad:

http://www.fancysplace.com/smileys/pancakes.gif

[mireland]

http://www.fancysplace.com/smileys/pancakes.gif


http://www.fancysplace.com/smileys/melted.gif

[j.m@talk]

Toona Biscay ............. Dunno how ya spell it ............ F@ncy ?????? :D

[fancyf]

Hey I just call it by his first name "Thon" http://www.fancysplace.com/forums/hmm.gif

(google is bad) http://www.fancysplace.com/smileys/smiley9.gif pfff!

[ukulele]

The first thing anyone needs to do is question the teachings of their religion. If they don't then they have only themselves to blame for their confusion. The first rule of any religion is to declare it's teachings are from God and therefore the divine law.

Now what's wrong with that logic? If you can't answer that question you are best off to follow the teachings of your chosen poison and get on with dying which is what all religions use as there "ace in the hole" to begin with. Without the unanswerable question of what happens to you after you die none of the three great religions (Christianity, Judaism or Muslim) would have any practical use. Buddhism and Hindu beliefs do not believe in heaven or hell so in that sense it's followers have already taken this logic into account. So, for the Muslim to accept that all law is laid down by divine providence is to deny the state or their own government the right to make laws. This leads to anarchy, dictatorship, totalitarianism and monotheism, all of which are rejected by democracy. Now, if those people have choose to live in a democracy then, in order to fulfill their obligations or social contract with the majority then they need to reject the false teachings of their religion. There is no way they can compromise and still uphold that law.

[j.m@talk]

"Thon"

Thong? :cool:


:t

[mireland]

Thong? :cool:


:t


Wrong Thong...John.... :D

[j.m@talk]

Wrong Thong...John.... :D

Twas worf a ask ;)

Ingredients:
1 1/2 lb toona; cleaned
3 tb Cream
3 c Boiling milk
1/4 c Flour
1/2 c Fish or chicken broth
1/3 c White wine
3 tb Cognac
2 Sprigs parsley
Pinch of thyme
1/2 Bay leaf
1 Sm chopped onion
1/4 c Diced carrots
5 tb Melted butter

Instructions:
Toona
Saute diced carrots and onion with 2 tablespoons butter for 5 minutes.
Add bay leaf, thyme, parsley and lobster.
Cook until toona turns red, about 5 minutes.
Add 2 tablespoons cognac and ignite.
Add white wine and broth.
Simmer 20 minutes.
Remove meat from lobster, reserving shells and broth.
Melt 3 tablespoons butter in a saucepan.
Add flour.
Cook, stirring constantly for 2 minutes.
Add 3 cups boiling milk all at once and whisk until smooth.
Crush toona and add to sauce.
Add reserve broth with vegetables and simmer, covered, 1 hour.
Strain through a sieve.
Heat to boiling and add 3 tablespoons cream.
You can add a few drops of red food coloring to give it that lovely pink color, if you wish.
Add the toona, before serving, plus remaining cognac.

:t

[j.m@talk]

That'll have yas barfing :eek:

[herosrest]

Hmmmmm. lt certainly will. Stanley.

[j.m@talk]

Wouldn't feed that me mog :(