Katrina & racism

[crapyking]

1st things 1st, this is probably the worste disaster in the history of the US & my heart goes out to all. I grew up on the gulf coast as a kid (lived thru Camile) & moved to NY when I was 13. I am not racist so to speak - I call people as I see them. THe reason the people in La. are still living in the filth & not being "rescued" is racism. I lived there as a child & returned as a young man to La. again in the air force for 2 yrs. There's 2 ways of thinking there, the good old boys, & the negro's. There is no intermixing of the races like is accepted & common place in the north. The black people stay in to themselves & good ole boys to themselves. Having said that do you see the element there dealing with? It is prodomenitly blk & they are uneducated. The entire interstructure of the deep south is this way. This is an issue that needs addressing by George Bush & the country. If you lived in the north your whole life it is truely a different culture than southern living. :(

[rraehal]

There was a mornign show where the host presented the same idea. I agree that the idea fits well.

I have a friend from Colorado who has beenc aled to go a serve for police work in La. I think he may learn a lot in this experience.

My problem is that the media is there but helping agencies are claiming its too dangerous....

[j.m@talk]

But Bushy is a Good Ole Boy isn't he ? ......... :(

[BadDriver]

This is something I refuse to have any belief in. Yeah let the coons and rednecks die??? BS dude.

Get a grip on reality, really. I know that part of the US, I know some of the underlying hatered but to say that Fats Domino was missing because he is black is as perposterous.

Myself?? I am a West Virginian by birth and I grew up with allot of stereotyped thinking, maybe equal to Mississippi and Louisiana. I may have splashed somebody with rain water or snowy slush because of color, ( I am not proud of that, I am just being honest) but to let any human die because of color in this country is just total BS and you know it.

Oh, well. It rained tonite. I must go cruising for a splash. :rolleyes:

[BadDriver]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/09/02/AR2005090201867.html

[j.m@talk]

Seems like the National Guard is beginning to impact on issues .....

The way the place seems to of turned in to a emulation of (The movie) "Escape from New York" is really quite annoying.

Still there yas are :t

[werz]

Instead of interfereing in the 'middle east' trying to fix there problems.
Perhaps it would be a good idea to fix the one's you've got at home first.

[DozerLYP]

..

[RamonGTP]

This is something I refuse to have any belief in. Yeah let the coons and rednecks die??? BS dude.

Get a grip on reality, really. I know that part of the US, I know some of the underlying hatered but to say that Fats Domino was missing because he is black is as perposterous.

Myself?? I am a West Virginian by birth and I grew up with allot of stereotyped thinking, maybe equal to Mississippi and Louisiana. I may have splashed somebody with rain water or snowy slush because of color, ( I am not proud of that, I am just being honest) but to let any human die because of color in this country is just total BS and you know it.

Oh, well. It rained tonite. I must go cruising for a splash. :rolleyes:


Sorry to say, but IMO it is you that needs to get a grip on reality. As unfortunate as it is, racism still exists to a large extent. Do you honestly believe if the people stranded over there were rich white folks that this would still be going on? Also, no one is saying he was missing becuase he's black. Whats being said is that the reason people that are not getting the help they should be getting is beucase of race and economic status. Deny it as you may, but the proof is right there day in and day out. All you have to do is go to any news channel and look at the people.

[chubtub]

I believe that it is both classism and racism. Classism because rich people tend to have more pull and effect the top more.

[genesound]

It should seem glaringly obvious that those of means and half a brain left b4 the storm. Also nothing could land or even drive there for days. :rolleyes:

[j.m@talk]

Classism my hiney .......... & WTF this Refugee thing all bout ? ........ Thems Americans @ in there homeland; Homeless yeah Fugees nope.

They are victims of freak weather conditions, poor design & maintenance ....... AND MAINLY Inept contingency planninng...... Frankly it matters not WHO you blame it all on . What does matter is that lessons are learned & Plans are drawn up........ That starts at the TOP & gets deligated as & where necessary

[jad1097]

How were the poor supposed to get out?

They should have bussed the ones out that wanted out instead of leaving them there.

[genesound]

Oh yes by all means let's pity the poor. If they'da gotten off the sofa 20 years ago, actually learned something at school insteada doin dope all day, and actually given a schidt about life they might not have to be where they are now. I've been poor and I know others that have too.

"They" huh? Where were you and your bus?

[j.m@talk]

Poverty is one of the few things you can't buy :t

[herosrest]

Poverty is one of the few things you can't buy :t

co'rse u can.
Just cos u pay for it doesn't mean u live in it. :D Deep thought ahead. :rolleyes:

[j.m@talk]

co'rse u can.
Just cos u pay for it doesn't mean u live in it. :D Deep thought ahead. :rolleyes:

You Italian ? ........ From Rome ? ..........Dikkus Headdus :D

[herosrest]

So deep. Dare l say profound. :p

[j.m@talk]

Well I like it ;)

[herosrest]

So, things quietened down for ya?

[j.m@talk]

Yeah .......... All back to normal ............ Other than lil kat doin bunny hops everywhere :D

[jad1097]

Oh yes by all means let's pity the poor. If they'da gotten off the sofa 20 years ago, actually learned something at school insteada doin dope all day, and actually given a schidt about life they might not have to be where they are now. I've been poor and I know others that have too.

"They" huh? Where were you and your bus?


I was dealing with the aftermath of Katrina here in Florida. Where were you?


You are an ignorant bigot to assume everyone who is poor is on dope and doesn't care about life.


Learn how to spell f00l! :rolleyes:



http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20050903/ap_on_re_us/katrina_superdome_hk1

[j.m@talk]

Play nicely children :t

[herosrest]

What did mum used to say?

[herosrest]

Yeah .......... All back to normal ............ :D


:p

[mcool61]

U.S. News & World Report - September 12, 2005 - page 26

"The city was founded in 1718 by jean Baptiste Le moyne de Bienville on a piece of high ground between the Mississippi and Lake Pontchartrain. It was built below grade, against the advice of engineers. Pumps and canals its founders thought would handle the water.
Over the centuries, the same attitude would direct development of the rest of the lower Mississippi. Earthen levees rose ever higher to corral the river in its channel. But they have come at a price; The same volume of water just moves faster through a smaller space, scouring the channel and weakening the levees from below. When the rains broke records in April 1927, the Gulf of Mexico was full and worked as a stopper to the Mississippi. The Mississippi was full, too, pushing its own water up tributaries, breaking levees and causing flooding as far as Ohio and Texas. All that water had to go somewhere.
It couldn't go the New Orleans, panicky city fathers told the Army Corps of Engineers; it would devastate the regional economy.
To save New Orleans, the leaders proposed a radical plan. South of the city, the population was mostly rural and poor. The leaders appealed to the federal government to essentially sacrafice those parishes by blowing up an earthen levee and diverting the water to marshland. They promised restitution to people who would lose their homes. Government officials, including Commerce Secretary Herbert Hoover, signed off.
On April 29, the levee at Caernarvon, 13 miles south of New Orleans, succumbed to 39 tons of dynamite. The river rushed through at 250,00 cubic feet per second. New Orleans was saved, but the misery of the flooded parishes had only started. The city fathers took years to make good on their promises, and very few residents ever saw any compensation at all.
The water, which had started rising on good Friday, would not recede until July. Many victims would never return to their homes. Hoover, who won support for leading relief efforts, went on the win the presidential election."
__________________________________________________ ________________
The poor always get it stuck to em the hardest. Amazing how little changes over the years.

Any body else notice that the first guy to make news that was doing any good was the gov of Texas. Coincidentally the gov has been suggested as a presidential candidate.
So they let things go to carp, the next pres steps in makes a splash, garners public support, then the current pres rides in & suddenly things start happening. Good for him. Glad someone finally did something but it all came down a bit suspicously if you ask me. Made a good propoganda campaign. Shame they had to let so many die before thier photo ops were ripe.

[genesound]

... You are an ignorant bigot... speaks fer yerself

[j.m@talk]

speaks fer yerself


Yo! "IB" .................. ;) J00 Momma :t

[mcool61]

Quote:
Originally Posted by jad1097
... You are an ignorant bigot...

No I think it's worse than that. A republican.

[porsch1909]

http://www.sysopt.com/forum/showthread.php?p=1319510#post1319510

[herosrest]

Well. that was interesting......?

[genesound]

I was dealing with the aftermath of Katrina here in Florida. Where were you?


You are an ignorant bigot to assume everyone who is poor is on dope and doesn't care about life.


Learn how to spell f00l! :rolleyes:



http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20050903/ap_on_re_us/katrina_superdome_hk1
Sorry, didn't know you had a bus :)

[j.m@talk]

Ya know its turning in to BIG BIZ here in the UK to open up a funnel for donations to the Katrina fund ........... Depressing really :(

[Strawbs]

I've got to say it's looking like the authorities are waiting until a few thousand more die before they really start the evac of those left behind. :(

Just watched a bulliten with lots of small boat owners' offers of help & rescue being refused & turned away at the city walls - even those with family in their are told they can't go in! :eek:

What is going on out there? is the Gov. afraid that their ineptitude\indifference will be caught on camera by one or more of these potential helpers? :confused:

[j.m@talk]

As George Peppard didn't say as Hannibal Smith in the "A" team ........ I love it when a plan gets ferked up :rolleyes:

[genesound]

Quote:
Originally Posted by jad1097
... You are an ignorant bigot...

No I think it's worse than that. A republican.yeah, so? I'm the old kinda republican, the kind that favors small business, small federal government, and the right to privacy, not one a these newfangled corporate church behemoth government puppets :eek:

more lika libertarian :t

[genesound]

I was dealing with the aftermath of Katrina here in Florida. Where were you? I hope you got it together and everything is ok and you are ok.


You are an ignorant bigot to assume everyone who is poor is on dope and doesn't care about life. I've been poor. I know ppl that grew up poor and are not poor themselves, but it wasn't easy. There are many reasons for the disenfranchised. But not enough to render inept and violent that many ppl. The cajuns are a special bunch. My heart goes out to em.


Learn how to spell f00l! :rolleyes: I know how to spell f00l, and others, but sometimes I choose not to.

Sorry to put off this contrite response, Ive been busy. I really do care what happens to all those affected, and am busy now donating and trying to decide how to assist further, should have done it sooner, but I have friends down there and will contact them.

Thanks for the wake-up call.

Gene

[werz]

yeah, so? I'm the old kinda republican, the kind that favors small business, small federal government, and the right to privacy, not one a these newfangled corporate church behemoth government puppets :eek:

more lika libertarian :t

I dont recall Bill Clinton being given much privacy when he and a consenting female adult were plastered all over the worlds news, given a special prosecutor to investigate his every statement and action, at huge expense to the taxpayer and embarrassment to the country.
Even if your against it, like the rest of us, we have to choose between the lesser of the two evils as we see it.
At this rate, the republicans must be glad GW.Bush can't run again, because of the total mess he has made during his 2nd term will have just about buried him.

one a these newfangled corporate church behemoth government puppets :eek:

Now they have found a winning formula, I dont think they will drop it to fast. So you could be in for more of the same.

You forgot 'small govt relief',(help and assistance) too little, too late. :t

[mcool61]

Dutch viewer Frank Tiggelaar writes:

There was a striking discrepancy between the CNN International report on the Bush visit to the New Orleans disaster zone, yesterday, and reports of the same event by German TV.

ZDF News reported that the president's visit was a completely staged event. Their crew witnessed how the open air food distribution point Bush visited in front of the cameras was torn down immediately after the president and the herd of 'news people' had left and that others which were allegedly being set up were abandoned at the same time. The people in the area were once again left to fend for themselves, said ZDF.

[T]he greatest disappointment [regarding the federal response] stands at the breached 17th Street levee. Touring this critical site yesterday with the President, I saw what I believed to be a real and significant effort to get a handle on a major cause of this catastrophe. Flying over this critical spot again this morning, less than 24 hours later, it became apparent that yesterday we witnessed a hastily prepared stage set for a Presidential photo opportunity; and the desperately needed resources we saw were this morning reduced to a single, lonely piece of equipment. The good and decent people of southeast Louisiana and the Gulf Coast - black and white, rich and poor, young and old - deserve far better from their national government.

[genesound]

I dont recall Bill Clinton being given much privacy when he and a consenting female adult were plastered all over the worlds news, given a special prosecutor to investigate his every statement and action, at huge expense to the taxpayer and embarrassment to the country.
Even if your against it, like the rest of us, we have to choose between the lesser of the two evils as we see it.
At this rate, the republicans must be glad GW.Bush can't run again, because of the total mess he has made during his 2nd term will have just about buried him.

one a these newfangled corporate church behemoth government puppets :eek:

Now they have found a winning formula, I dont think they will drop it to fast. So you could be in for more of the same.

You forgot 'small govt relief',(help and assistance) too little, too late. :t

There's one sure way to keep yer pecker outa the paper ifn yer prez n that's to keep it in yer wife's pants, you know the pants that run the ****ree.

Their winning formula will die in the polls. Always has.

They won't have Louisiana drained fer months. There's time.

I doubt that a staff of hundreds would allow the prez to just ignore this. If he or they are found negligent the consequences are staggering. ;)

[mcool61]

they would lie out of it anyway. all they gotta do is fire up the propoganda machine & it will all go away

[genesound]

Dutch viewer Frank Tiggelaar writes:

There was a striking discrepancy between the CNN International report on the Bush visit to the New Orleans disaster zone, yesterday, and reports of the same event by German TV.

ZDF News reported that the president's visit was a completely staged event. Their crew witnessed how the open air food distribution point Bush visited in front of the cameras was torn down immediately after the president and the herd of 'news people' had left and that others which were allegedly being set up were abandoned at the same time. The people in the area were once again left to fend for themselves, said ZDF.

[T]he greatest disappointment [regarding the federal response] stands at the breached 17th Street levee. Touring this critical site yesterday with the President, I saw what I believed to be a real and significant effort to get a handle on a major cause of this catastrophe. Flying over this critical spot again this morning, less than 24 hours later, it became apparent that yesterday we witnessed a hastily prepared stage set for a Presidential photo opportunity; and the desperately needed resources we saw were this morning reduced to a single, lonely piece of equipment. The good and decent people of southeast Louisiana and the Gulf Coast - black and white, rich and poor, young and old - deserve far better from their national government.Where's Bob Woodward and Carl Bernstein when we need em?

[werz]

http://www.wired.com/news/planet/0,2782,68738,00.html

Why so much chaos when they had studied the exact senario only months before.

In July 2004, more than 40 federal, state, local and volunteer organizations practiced this very scenario in a five-day simulation code-named "Hurricane Pam," where they had to deal with an imaginary storm that destroyed over half a million buildings in New Orleans and forced the evacuation of a million residents.

[mcool61]

yeah, so? I'm the old kinda republican, the kind that favors small business, small federal government, and the right to privacy, not one a these newfangled corporate church behemoth government puppets :eek:

more lika libertarian :t

I could probably be one of those kind. Trouble is there aren't enough of ya.

[ukulele]

I have to wonder how many of those poor oppressed left behinds are going to show up for labor duty when the water get's drained? Anybody want to put odds on more then 10%?

[Strawbs]

I have to wonder how many of those poor oppressed left behinds are going to show up for labor duty when the water get's drained? Anybody want to put odds on more then 10%?It could turn out to be just the opportunity some of them need to get them back into a work ethic.

Or the Mayor could import workers from outside state - a poor decision if it were to be so.

[ukulele]

It could turn out to be just the opportunity some of them need to get them back into a work ethic.

Or the Mayor could import workers from outside state - a poor decision if it were to be so.

They will probably hire illegal mexicans because FEMA will mandate Bacon-Davis wages and nobody can afford that except the government. Besides, does anybody really believe that the poor in NO really wanted to work a real job in the first place. I'm with Genesound on this one. I was poor and homeless before, more then a few times. It happens if you want to travel on your own nickle. Right now I am paying for my own education, every red cent. I refuse to ask the government for a loan and I don't want welfare. If I can do it they can too. Now if I can just afford the Income taxes and balloning inflation I can quit working myself into the grave some day.

[jad1097]

FEMA has been hiring IBEW members to set up generators and such for now.:D

[Strawbs]

...
Besides, does anybody really believe that the poor in NO really wanted to work a real job in the first place....
Jeebers uke - at least give 'em a chance to say no before you hang 'em! :x

[mcool61]

The people of New Orleans couldn't get a job anyway. They'll probably be giving drug tests. We all know they couldn't pass them. Uke said so.

[mireland]

:rolleyes:

[ukulele]

The people of New Orleans couldn't get a job anyway. They'll probably be giving drug tests. We all know they couldn't pass them. Uke said so.

No, just the ones with guns that are breaking into drug stores. You must have gone to school in a haze too or else you could read.

[mireland]

:rolleyes:

[mcool61]

You must have gone to school in a haze too or else you could read.

See? Every time you don't like something POW! dope cuased it. Not that the propoganda we've been fed is bad or wrong, just interesting to see who embraces it the most. Big brother adds another.

[ukulele]

See? Every time you don't like something POW! dope cuased it. Not that the propoganda we've been fed is bad or wrong, just interesting to see who embraces it the most. Big brother adds another.

If you can't even quote someone correctly when the post is right under your nose you are either uneducated, on drugs or just plain stupid. Get off my back you friggin' hillbilly.

[mireland]

:rolleyes:

[Strawbs]

:rolleyes: :D

[ukulele]

Jeebers uke - at least give 'em a chance to say no before you hang 'em! :x

Your right Strawbs, but they'll have to go try on their own merits. That's the only way I ever got hired. This is not the time to pull a race card out of the hat either. This is not about race and I am sick of hearing that excuse. There is millions of poor whites too. Like it or not drugs and alcohol is a big, big part of it in spite of what the drug users think. I knows a lot of them where I live too. I'm sure the opportunity will arise once they get the flood waters dried up. Meanwhile I guess government labor camps like they had during the great depression is out of the question these days. Now they call that inhumane treatment to tell a man he has to work to feed his family. Contractors hiring laborers for government now get paid $27.00 ph (Bacon-Davis wages) on any government contracted construction job. Private contractors on private jobs don't get that for highly skilled professional tradesmen. That is one reason why the contractors only hire the hardest working people for those jobs. They would go broke overnight paying those kind of wages for people with no skills or in poor health. It is politics that helped get these people into poverty and politics that will keep them there unless they go and get their own employment.

[mireland]

:rolleyes:

[Strawbs]

An engineering "expert" on the BBC was saying it'll a lot take more than draining the water to begin to make the place habitable again.

He was citing the chemicals that will have contaminated the ground mean the ground would have to be cleared to at least 2ft down to remove contaminated soil, water mains would also be contaminated with chemicals & would have to be replaced, residents would have to be barred from growing their own produce for 10 years, etc.

He basically said it would not be financially viable, but "Other [historical]" reasons for rebuilding will probably take precedence.

The one thing that maybe he forgot is the fact that American Law is somewhat different to British Law & corners will be cut.

don't drink the water. :x

[j.m@talk]

Corners will be cut.

Teknitions at work ;)

[herosrest]

So build circles.

[Strawbs]

So build circles.
http://www.fancysplace.com/smileys/fingerscrossed.gif http://www.fancysplace.com/smileys/strikelightn.gif

[mireland]

http://www.fancysplace.com/smileys/bat.gif

[genesound]

This is interesting (http://federalistpatriot.us/news/depot.asp)

[mireland]

This is interesting (http://federalistpatriot.us/news/depot.asp)


errr, there is plenty of blame to go around..no need to hog it... :(

[genesound]

"Let me make this clear: Everything which has happened as the result of Hurricane Katrina is my fault. Mine. Alone. No one else's. Stop wasting energy pointing fingers and put your hands to work helping out. It was me. Got it? I was a United States Senator from Louisiana in 2001 when the levee at Lake Pontchartrain was declared unsafe and I didn't have enough clout with my Senatorial brethren to get sufficient money appropriated to fix it. It was my fault. Oh. I almost forgot. I was the Commander-in-Chief of all United States Armed Forces in the 1960s which includes the Corps of Engineers. The cost-benefit analysis? My fault. It is my fault that, as the Governor of Louisiana, I didn't foresee the need to have enough Louisiana National Guard troops—the vast majority of whom are NOT currently in Iraq, or Afghanistan or, for that matter, Indiana—pre-positioned and ready to preserve order. I, frankly, forgot that there is a portion of the population which will steal anything from anyone given any opportunity and then will blame it on me because I didn't—in spite of ample warnings by sociologists from large Eastern Universities—foresee the need to have 27" flat-screen television sets available to every family in the New Orleans city limits as soon as the electricity went out. That one WAS my bad. It is my fault that, as Mayor of New Orleans, I was boogying down Bourbon Street the night before the hurricane hit rather than being where I should have been—on the roof of the Superdome pounding in extra nails to hold the roof on. As the architect of the Superdome, it was my fault for claiming that the Dome could survive 200 mile-per-hour winds. It couldn't even handle a relatively gentle 160 mile-per-hour zephyr. Strap me to my drafting table and set me adrift. Global warming? My fault. Despite the fact that nearly every serious climatologist in America has stated over and over again that there is no clear evidence tying human-generated greenhouse gasses to global warming, and even if there were, there is no evidence tying global warming to hurricanes in the Atlantic basin, I was opposed to the Kyoto treaty and so it is my fault. It is also my fault that during the administration of Bill Clinton the U.S. Senate rejected the terms of the Kyoto protocols by a vote of 95-0. That would be zero, zilch, nada, nil, bupkis. As the Grand Poohbah in Charge of all TV Coverage, it is my fault that there is constant video of looters and almost none of humanitarian activities. I am the person who issued the statement: 'No more rescue footage UNLESS the person rescued complains about how long they had to wait or, if he shoots at the rescuers.' And, finally, as Chairman of the National Association of Gasoline Producers it is my fault that I had the bad judgment to put so much of my drilling, refining and transportation assets in a hurricane-prone area like the Caribbean basin. What...was...I...thinking? If I could re-do that whole thing, I would have put all that equipment in Lake Erie and Lake Michigan. There may not be any oil there, but hurricanes are very rare. So. There you have it. Everything that has happened is my fault. Now. Shut up and help."—Rich Galen

[mcool61]

you are either uneducated, on drugs or just plain stupid. Get off my back you friggin' hillbilly.


when your best argument is calling someone a drug addict that is not then you already lost. Can you understand that?


Goes fer callin people uneducated, druggy,stupid friggin hillbillys too. :p

[tantone]

Why can't we all just admit that hurricane's are racist and this one was specifically created to affect the poor black people of the south.

It's kinda like the people in New Orleans. They chose to live in a bowl below sea level while human engineering tried to hold back the natural water level...and they act SHOCKED when that precarious situation was changed by weather.

People aren't born to be poor like people are born with heart disease or Down's syndrome. It's something that you can change. And being black isn't a direct route to the soup-kitchen and a life of poverty. Being black isn't a reason to be poor or something that excuses you from the personal responsibility to either change your situation or stop complaining about it.

[Shoreguy]

12:15 P.M. - WHITE HOUSE (AP): In the debate about how to describe those displaced by Hurricane Katrina, President Bush is joining those who don't like the word "refugees."


The president tells reporters, "The people we're talking about are not refugees, they are Americans." And he adds, "They need the help and love and compassion of our fellow citizens."


Bush spoke during a meeting with leaders of charity and volunteer groups who are helping Katrina's victims.


His words appear to put him on the same side as the Reverend Jesse Jackson, who has declared it's "racist" to call U.S. citizens refugees. Jackson and other black leaders say the word has a criminal connotation -- and prefer the more neutral term "evacuees."

Someone seeking refuge is a refugee....why do you need to spend braincells on this debate when people and animals are still seeking refuge???

[chubtub]

God for once I totally agreed with you tantone.

[Baddog]

An Unnatural Disaster: A Hurricane Exposes the Man-Made Disaster of the
Welfare State
An Objectivist Review

by Robert Tracinski | The Intellectual Activist

September 2, 2005It has taken four long days for state and federal
officials to figure out how to deal with the disaster in New Orleans. I
can't blame them, because it has also taken me four long days to figure
out what is going on there. The reason is that the events there make no
sense if you think that we are confronting a natural disaster.

If this is just a natural disaster, the response for public officials is
obvious: you bring in food, water, and doctors; you send transportation
to evacuate refugees to temporary shelters; you send engineers to stop
the flooding and rebuild the city's infrastructure. For journalists,
natural disasters also have a familiar pattern: the heroism of ordinary
people pulling together to survive; the hard work and dedication of
doctors, nurses, and rescue workers; the steps being taken to clean up
and rebuild.

Public officials did not expect that the first thing they would have to
do is to send thousands of armed troops in armored vehicle, as if they
are suppressing an enemy insurgency. And journalists--myself
included--did not expect that the story would not be about rain, wind,
and flooding, but about rape, murder, and looting.

But this is not a natural disaster. It is a man-made disaster.

The man-made disaster is not an inadequate or incompetent response by
federal relief agencies, and it was not directly caused by Hurricane
Katrina. This is where just about every newspaper and television channel
has gotten the story wrong.

The man-made disaster we are now witnessing in New Orleans did not
happen over the past four days. It happened over the past four decades.
Hurricane Katrina merely exposed it to public view.

The man-made disaster is the welfare state.

For the past few days, I have found the news from New Orleans to be
confusing. People were not behaving as you would expect them to behave
in an emergency--indeed, they were not behaving as they have behaved in
other emergencies. That is what has shocked so many people: they have
been saying that this is not what we expect from America. In fact, it is
not even what we expect from a Third World country.

When confronted with a disaster, people usually rise to the occasion.
They work together to rescue people in danger, and they spontaneously
organize to keep order and solve problems. This is especially true in
America. We are an enterprising people, used to relying on our own
initiative rather than waiting around for the government to take care of
us. I have seen this a hundred times, in small examples (a small town
whose main traffic light had gone out, causing ordinary citizens to get
out of their cars and serve as impromptu traffic cops, directing cars
through the intersection) and large ones (the spontaneous response of
New Yorkers to September 11).

So what explains the chaos in New Orleans?

To give you an idea of the magnitude of what is going on, here is a
description from a Washington Times story:

"Storm victims are raped and beaten; fights erupt with flying fists,
knives and guns; fires are breaking out; corpses litter the streets; and
police and rescue helicopters are repeatedly fired on.

"The plea from Mayor C. Ray Nagin came even as National Guardsmen poured
in to restore order and stop the looting, carjackings and gunfire....

"Last night, Gov. Kathleen Babineaux Blanco said 300 Iraq-hardened
Arkansas National Guard members were inside New Orleans with
shoot-to-kill orders.

"'These troops are...under my orders to restore order in the streets,'
she said. 'They have M-16s, and they are locked and loaded. These troops
know how to shoot and kill and they are more than willing to do so if
necessary and I expect they will.' "

The reference to Iraq is eerie. The photo that accompanies this article
shows National Guard troops, with rifles and armored vests, riding on an
armored vehicle through trash-strewn streets lined by a rabble of
squalid, listless people, one of whom appears to be yelling at them. It
looks exactly like a scene from Sadr City in Baghdad.

What explains bands of thugs using a natural disaster as an excuse for
an orgy of looting, armed robbery, and rape? What causes unruly mobs to
storm the very buses that have arrived to evacuate them, causing the
drivers to drive away, frightened for their lives? What causes people to
attack the doctors trying to treat patients at the Super Dome?

Why are people responding to natural destruction by causing further
destruction? Why are they attacking the people who are trying to help
them?

My wife, Sherri, figured it out first, and she figured it out on a
sense-of-life level. While watching the coverage last night on Fox News
Channel, she told me that she was getting a familiar feeling. She
studied architecture at the Illinois Institute of Chicago, which is
located in the South Side of Chicago just blocks away from the Robert
Taylor Homes, one of the largest high-rise public housing projects in
America. "The projects," as they were known, were infamous for
uncontrollable crime and irremediable squalor. (They have since,
mercifully, been demolished.)

What Sherri was getting from last night's television coverage was a
whiff of the sense of life of "the projects." Then the "crawl"--the
informational phrases flashed at the bottom of the screen on most news
channels--gave some vital statistics to confirm this sense: 75% of the
residents of New Orleans had already evacuated before the hurricane, and
of the 300,000 or so who remained, a large number were from the city's
public housing projects. Jack Wakeland then gave me an additional,
crucial fact: early reports from CNN and Fox indicated that the city had
no plan for evacuating all of the prisoners in the city's jails--so they
just let many of them loose. There is no doubt a significant overlap
between these two populations--that is, a large number of people in the
jails used to live in the housing projects, and vice versa.

There were many decent, innocent people trapped in New Orleans when the
deluge hit--but they were trapped alongside large numbers of people from
two groups: criminals--and wards of the welfare state, people selected,
over decades, for their lack of initiative and self-induced
helplessness. The welfare wards were a mass of sheep--on whom the
incompetent administration of New Orleans unleashed a pack of wolves.

All of this is related, incidentally, to the apparent incompetence of
the city government, which failed to plan for a total evacuation of the
city, despite the knowledge that this might be necessary. But in a city
corrupted by the welfare state, the job of city officials is to ensure
the flow of handouts to welfare recipients and patronage to political
supporters--not to ensure a lawful, orderly evacuation in case of
emergency.

No one has really reported this story, as far as I can tell. In fact,
some are already actively distorting it, blaming President Bush, for
example, for failing to personally ensure that the Mayor of New Orleans
had drafted an adequate evacuation plan. The worst example is an
execrable piece from the Toronto Globe and Mail, by a supercilious
Canadian who blames the chaos on American "individualism." But the truth
is precisely the opposite: the chaos was caused by a system that was the
exact opposite of individualism.

What Hurricane Katrina exposed was the psychological consequences of the
welfare state. What we consider "normal" behavior in an emergency is
behavior that is normal for people who have values and take the
responsibility to pursue and protect them. People with values respond to
a disaster by fighting against it and doing whatever it takes to
overcome the difficulties they face. They don't sit around and complain
that the government hasn't taken care of them. They don't use the chaos
of a disaster as an opportunity to prey on their fellow men.

But what about criminals and welfare parasites? Do they worry about
saving their houses and property? They don't, because they don't own
anything. Do they worry about what is going to happen to their
businesses or how they are going to make a living? They never worried
about those things before. Do they worry about crime and looting? But
living off of stolen wealth is a way of life for them.

The welfare state--and the brutish, uncivilized mentality it sustains
and encourages--is the man-made disaster that explains the moral
ugliness that has swamped New Orleans. And that is the story that no one
is reporting.

[ukulele]

Someone seeking refuge is a refugee....why do you need to spend braincells on this debate when people and animals are still seeking refuge???

That's because we have to be more sensitive with some kinds of poor people. That's why we must call them something which they are not. In Hawaii everyone calls Blacks popolos. The Filipinos are Flips, the Chinese are Pakes, the Japanese are Japs, the Portugues are Portagees and the Causasions are Haoules. The Hawaiians even have a slang for Hawaiians, Kanakas. Nobody better get offended by any of those terms or they are the next to get sacrificed to Pele.

[tantone]

Pele? The footballer?

[ukulele]

Pele? The footballer?

Pele, the Goddess of the Volcano.

http://www.mythicalrealm.com/legends/pele.html

[fleecaf]

OMG he's such an unadulterated tit!....Latest Headline "Bush bombs Hurricane" (You know he would Godammit) Brain dead C**t
I despair....Oh ****, I despair :( :(

[Strawbs]

An Unnatural Disaster: A Hurricane Exposes the Man-Made Disaster of the
Welfare State
An Objectivist Review

...Nice find! food for thought I s'pose, but for most here I fear it will be considered too long to read fully.

;)

[porsch1909]

Pele? The footballer?


Sure you don't mean soccer player? :p

[ukulele]

Sure you don't mean soccor player? :p

...or even soccer player? :r

[tantone]

no such thing as soccor

a footballer is a guy that plays what American's call soccer

a football player is a guy that plays what American's call football

[porsch1909]

I never said soccor :rolleyes: :p

[ukulele]

Goes fer callin people uneducated, druggy,stupid friggin hillbillys too. :p

I can say what ever I want. I'm the resident wisecracker. :r

[Strawbs]

...

a football player is a guy that plays what American's call footballyou mean one of those guys that plays football with his hands! right? :x

[porsch1909]

I named it handball a while ago.....:p

[mcool61]

I can say what ever I want. I'm the resident wisecracker. :r


cracker maybe. wise i dunno

[mcool61]

I'd come closer to believin it was the welfare state combined with emptying out the jails that caused a lot of the trouble. Not drugs as some others have said. In fact the drug use was probably a result of the welfare state. I read somewhere that Barbara Bush said a lot of the people that are taking refuge in Texas don't want to leave. Even stuffed in the astrodome they are better off than where they came from due to texas hospitality. She suggested it might be a new beginning for some of them. Let us hope so.

[porsch1909]

I'd come closer to believin it was the welfare state combined with emptying out the jails that caused a lot of the trouble. Not drugs as some others have said.


I'd come closer to beleiving that the hurricane caused most of the trouble :rolleyes:

[tantone]

cracker cracks me up! Most of the "derogatory" terms for white people are just funny to me. In fact, all of them are. I don't know of any that I find actually demeaning.

[Strawbs]

:rolleyes: It's like watching a tennis match! :rolleyes:

your serve uke. )-|

[mcool61]

I scored the last 2 points. I particularly liked the next to last one where I used his words to win.

[ukulele]

I scored the last 2 points. I particularly liked the next to last one where I used his words to win.

Ain't no goat roper ever goin' ta beat me. :p

[SJG437]

Truly a bunch of Asshats -
Why isn't "everyone" crying over the lack of international support for this US disaster. How much have you given?????
I recall the ever so hot topic just awhile back:Americans need a wake up call. This is not right. (http://www.sysopt.com/forum/showthread.php?t=174904)

How very typical that the international community spouts hatred upon us for our "lack of support" when they do little/nothing to help us. :confused:

[j.m@talk]

Truly a bunch of Asshats -
How very typical that the international community spouts hatred upon us for our "lack of support" when they do little/nothing to help us. :confused:

Paranoia ?

[SJG437]

Huh? :rolleyes:

My bad for pointing out the obvious.

[mcool61]

Ain't no goat roper ever goin' ta beat me. :p

Quote:
Originally Posted by ukulele
"when your best argument is calling someone a drug addict" (names) "that is not then you already lost. Can you understand that?"

:p
Mcool rides into the sunset on his trusty goat, playin his ukulele.

[genesound]

stfu. you're annoying ;)

I'm playin my 4000 watt bass and nobody can hear your ukulele )-|

[mcool61]

stfu. you're annoying ;)

I'm playin my 4000 watt bass and nobody can hear your ukulele )-|

stfu

Sure
Thankful
For
U ? :p :p

nobody can hear your ukulele )-|

Yea the goat sings loud.

[ukulele]

Friggin' goat roper probably thinks his gopher skinned banjo with the neighbors cats guts for strings is an ukulele. :D

[porsch1909]

Truly a bunch of Asshats -
Why isn't "everyone" crying over the lack of international support for this US disaster. How much have you given?????
I recall the ever so hot topic just awhile back:Americans need a wake up call. This is not right. (http://www.sysopt.com/forum/showthread.php?t=174904)

How very typical that the international community spouts hatred upon us for our "lack of support" when they do little/nothing to help us. :confused:

The Wealthiest country in the world needs help does it? hmmmmm...interesting that you compare yourselfs to the some of the poorest most deprived third world countries which got affected by a far worse disaster than America, with a lot less (or maybe no) warning. All the people in the city had adequete warning and should have left their respective cities. If they couldn't leave than they should have been made to leave.

Why should we pay for your stupidity? Well i put a penny in a jar for the hurricane victims the other day......:rolleyes:

If I seriously thought America needed financial aid I would give money, but i don't so i don't.

[daverme]

What the hell? So why is it Bush's problem to stamp out inbred ignorance?. That's about the dumbest thing ever heard!

[porsch1909]

Why is it his problem? Because it is his country and he is the president of the country as voted by you lot.....

Maybe that is why :rolleyes:

[j.m@talk]

What the hell? So why is it Bush's problem to stamp out inbred ignorance?. That's about the dumbest thing ever heard!

Its cheaper to bus em out alive, than it is to fish em outta the water dead

If there aint no ppl there you could just torch the piles of broken stick built houses rarther than truckking it elswhere ........ At the moment you have to pay hundreds of bods to search everything .....

Pure economics ....... & a lil common sense thrown in :t

[tantone]

And don't try to tell people that maybe, just perhaps, rebuilding New Orleans would be foolish. The black people cried racism when they heard that idea--saying that whitey was trying to stifle their culture.

I say that Bush focuses on stamping out foreign immigrants first. We can work our inbred ignorance much easier without having to worry about inbred ignorance seeping through our borders adding to the problem. Oh, wait, sorry porsch...you're not in the US are you. Nevermind. ;)

[porsch1909]

OH well since I am not in the US or anyone outwith the US that has given aid is not in the US, you can just send all the aid in whatever form back. and any of it used if that could be replenished as well..

My penny would be nice to have ya know...it was awfully shiny :p

THis whole idea you have that I shouldn't give two fisces about what happens in your country because i dont live there is bull-fisces. They are all human beings in the end wether they are American, british or whatever.

And i should care if i am going by your philosophy because 96 Britons are un-accounted for :rolleyes:

I am sure America will blame this all on the French in the end :rolleyes:

[Strawbs]

...

I am sure America will blame this all on the French in the end :rolleyes:y'know, that might just work - then everybody's happy!

.......except maybe the French ...but they're always down-in-the-mouth anyway - so everybody's happy, if the French aren't - you won't know the difference & everybody's ha....! :)

[porsch1909]

Didn't they build the city originally or something....i dunno my History is terrible :p

[Strawbs]

Didn't they build the city originally or something....i dunno my History is terrible :pThat's the spirit - dumb location! :cool:

[porsch1909]

The sub-standard levees had nothing to do with....


:rolleyes:

[tantone]

The French certainly aren't known for their engineering skills. The best engineers in France are ants.

[porsch1909]

They make bloody good white flags! :mad:


:p

[tantone]

Whits fags are their biggest export.

[porsch1909]

I think they keep them all for themselves....they need 'em ;)

[genesound]

LOL :D

[genesound]

Whether NO will be rebuilt is not even open for question.

OIL and the Mississippi. The river is the outlet for somethin like 70% of this countries grain.

It would be nice if there weren't thousands of poor there that can't evacuate in an emergency though.

[j.m@talk]

It would be nice if there weren't thousands of poor there that can't evacuate in an emergency though.

So we are gonna bump em all off huh ............. I Like it Gene, I like it :t

[ukulele]

So we are gonna bump em all off huh ............. I Like it Gene, I like it :t

Who will be the slaves to the rich then?

[herosrest]

erm.... the Buffalo?

[mireland]

BANG! BANG! BANG!




I just killed this thread.... :rolleyes:

[ukulele]

erm.... the Buffalo?

The're ain't a nuff left. Better make that the people of Buffalo. Stinkin' polluters the lot. :p

[herosrest]

Heap big buffalo.

[j.m@talk]

Who will be the slaves to the rich then?

Umm ......... Them duffers in Idaho :D

:t

[mireland]

Umm ......... Them duffers in Idaho :D

:t


up yours.. :eek:

[j.m@talk]

The Natives are getting restless ............. Good sign ;)

[herosrest]

So where's idano?

[j.m@talk]

So where's idano?

Out the back of ferk knows where ....... :D

[apsinger]

Its got to be hard to have no hope....that you can't possibly climb out of the hole. Everyone around you is in the same boat.... Still, I can't accept that answer. Society can't be expected to just provide folks everything that everyone else has to work to get. I would feel better about subsidizing poor folks to get them to a certain level if we are not willing to pay everyone $20/hour. I would rather sit on the couch too if $40 a day was all I could make....
Life sucks when you're poor...

[ShadeZeRO]

First of all, i dont think its racist...

If i were calling the shots, i woudln't send much help to 'gang' ridden area's...

Man tries to help people out with a heli...and gets shot tryin to help..wtf is that!!?

Again that type of stuff happens...

[porsch1909]

Good thing you aren't calling the shots though :rolleyes:

[mireland]

Out the back of ferk knows where ....... :D


ferk? how about ferk off? :D

[mireland]

Good thing you aren't calling the shots though :rolleyes:

If I were calling the shots I'd scream "PULL" and have one of them flung into the air like a clay pidgon! :D

[porsch1909]

Good thing you aren't calling the shots though :rolleyes:


See above....

[mireland]

See above....


PULL!



PORSCH GOES FLYING THROUGH THE AIR

[porsch1909]

With Yo' mamma!

[mireland]

With Yo' mamma!


which one..I have multiple mammas! :eek:

[porsch1909]

Number 7....

Oh wait that is Mrs Murphy :p

[mcool61]

Friggin' goat roper probably thinks his gopher skinned banjo with the neighbors cats guts for strings is an ukulele. :D

Nah I think it's a fishin pole & the bigot on the end of the line just keeps floppin.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ukulele
"when your best argument is calling someone a drug addict" (names) "that is not then you already lost. Can you understand that?"

:p
Mcool rides into the sunset on his trusty goat, playin his ukulele.

[ukulele]

Nah I think it's a fishin pole & the bigot on the end of the line just keeps floppin.

Who you calling a bigot? Are you black? Not all white people are bigots? You got no sense of humor, you got no class and you got nothing intelligent to say. STFU
You sound like an ignorant horses rear. :mad:

Don't bother to reply I'm unsubscribed. :t

[mireland]

this thread should die a painful death me finks... :rolleyes:

[Strawbs]

Who you calling a bigot? Are you black? Not all white people are bigots? ...thought he agreed he was a "hill-billy"? I's a never seen a black one of those befow. :eek:

[porsch1909]

*Yawn*

[Baddog]

This is a post from Bill Weiler, freelance journalist, over in Merritt
Island, FL, who has been researching what went on before the storm hit.
These are
the authors comments - I find them very interesting.

--
Politics over Duty

I think all of Mayor Nagin's pomp and posturing is going to bite him
hard in
the near future as the lies and distortions of his interviews are coming
to
light.

On Friday night before the storm hit Max Mayfield of the National
Hurricane
Center took the unprecedented action of calling Mayor Nagin and Governor
Blanco
personally to plead with them to begin MANDATORY evacuation of New
Orleans
and they said they'd take it under consideration. This was after the
NOAA buoy
240 miles south had recorded 68' waves before it was destroyed.

President Bush spent Friday afternoon and evening in meetings with his
advisors and administrators drafting all of the paperwork required for a
state to
request federal assistance (and not be in violation of the Posse
Comitatus Act
or having to enact the Insurgency Act). Just before midnight Friday
evening the
President called Governor Blanco and pleaded with her to sign the
request
papers so the federal government and the military could legally begin
mobilization and call up. He was told that they didn't think it
necessary for the federal
government to be involved yet. After the President's final call to the
governor she held meetings with her staff to discuss the political
ramifications of
bringing federal forces. It was decided that if they allowed federal
assistance it would make it look as if they had failed so it was agreed
upon that the
feds would not be invited in.

Saturday before the storm hit the President again called Gov. Blanco and

Mayor Nagin requesting they please sign the papers requesting federal
assistance,
that they declare the state an emergency area, and begin mandatory
evacuation.
After a personal plea from the President, Nagin agreed to order an
evacuation, but it would not be a full mandatory evacuation, and the
governor still
refused to sign the papers requesting and authorizing federal action. In

frustration the President declared the area a national disaster area
before the state
of Louisiana did so he could legally begin some advanced preparations.
Rumor
has it that the President's legal advisers were looking into the
ramifications
of using the insurgency act to bypass the Constitutional requirement
that a
state request federal aid before the federal government can move into
state with
troops - but that had not been done since 1906 and the Constitutionality
of it
was called into question to use before the disaster.

Throw in that over half the federal aid of the past decade to New
Orleans for
levee construction, maintenance, and repair was diverted to fund a
marina and
support the gambling ships. Toss in the investigation that will look
into why
the emergency preparedness plan submitted to the federal government for
funding and published on the city's website was never implemented and in
fact may
have been bogus for the purpose of gaining additional federal funding as
we now
learn that the organizations identified in the plan were never contacted
or
coordinating into any planning - though the document implies that they
were.

The suffering people of New Orleans need to be asking some hard
questions as
do we all, but they better start with why Blanco refused to even sign
the
multi-state mutual aid pack activation documents until Wednesday which
further
delayed the legal deployment of National Guard from adjoining states. Or
maybe
ask why Nagin keeps harping that the President should have commandeered
500
Greyhound busses to help him when according to his own emergency plan
and
documents he claimed to have over 500 busses at his disposal to use
between the local
school busses and the city transportation busses - but he never raised a

finger to prepare them or activate them.

This is a sad time for all of us to see that a major city has all but
been
destroyed and thousands of people have died with hundreds of thousands
more
suffering, but it's certainly not a time for people to be pointing
fingers and
trying to find a bigger dog to blame for local corruption and
incompetence. Pray
to God for the survivors that they can start their lives anew as fast as

possible and we learn from all the mistakes to avoid them in
the future.

[Baddog]

A friend of mine, here in Green Valley, sent this to me, from her friend
in Louisiana. Not exactly the story we are seeing from the media!!!

I have a friend who lives near Baton Rouge and she wrote this to me.
Thought you would like to hear another perspective on things.

"We have had a battery operated TV so we've been getting local channels
focusing on the situation there and here. I'm just getting the "national
perspective" and its *(&*&(*ing me off!



First, this is not a racial thing. I'm sorry if all the reporters are
seeing are black faces but if they would take their cameras to places
like Slidell, Mandeville, Metairie and CHALMETTE! They would see a
several thousand white faces being affected by this. Most of the tip of
the boot that is Louisiana south and east of Baton Rouge is under water.
Those people are stuck too waiting for help, dying, but all the news
people can focus on is the Superdome.

Another misconception. The violence going on there is not the reaction
of desperate people. Its typical New Orleans on any given Tuesday!!! Its
a dangerous, dirty, drug infested place where the city police and city
government is corrupt and useless. Volunteers are getting shot at and
their cars vandalized. Helicopters are being shot at. Just another day
in the city.

Another misconception. These poor people couldn't get out because they
don't have cars. If the cameras show the city once the waters recede,
you'll notice all the flooded out cars littering the streets. They
couldn't all have been broken down before the storm hit . Yes, there are
always people who do not have transportation. Part of making the call
for a MANDATORY evacuation is that the city has to provide for
transportation and/or shelter in the city. People stayed for the same
reasons they always stay. They think the storm will turn and go in
another direction. They think they can "ride it out." Or, they're just
too (*&( lazy to pack up and leave.

Another misconception. The federal government was slow to respond. The
president issued a state of emergency BEFORE the storm ever hit,
unprecedented. This means that the full access of the federal
government, be it military or civil, were at our governor's disposal.
The levee broke early Monday afternoon. She did not call evacuation
until Tuesday morning. You cannot call up National Guard units in 20
minutes. It takes time.

The governor and mayor are in high CYA mode at the moment. The situation
is bad here. Crime is becoming a problem in Gonzales and Baton Rouge
where the evacuees are being housed. We live between the two cities and
there is pistol on my desk shelf as I type (yes, I know how to use it).
Helicopters flying overhead all day, gas is running out, stores shelves
becoming empty. Its like a war zone. Our kids are both here and are
staying here until the crime situation gets in control and I fear it
will get worse before it gets better. Pray for us." I'll write more
later

[Strawbs]

But - is this the beginning of the propoganda war that will no doubt ensue?

[herosrest]

http://www.fincasantamarta.com/birds/images/great_bustard.jpg

Have they survived?

[genesound]

But - is this the beginning of the propoganda war that will no doubt ensue?I don't think you understand one thing maybe. The federal government nor another state are not allowed to just send troops into a state, the state must request them.

[mcool61]

This is a post from Bill Weiler, freelance journalist, over in Merritt
Island, FL, who has been researching what went on before the storm hit.
These are
the authors comments - I find them very interesting.

--
Politics over Duty
blah blah blah

found on google

"Election 2004
Bill Weiler, of Merritt Island, is a regular contributor to the conservative Web
site rightnation.us."

Another right wing propoganda site. Who knows how much of it is true.

[Strawbs]

I don't think you understand one thing maybe. The federal government nor another state are not allowed to just send troops into a state, the state must request them.Yes! I read Baddog's posts - but the timeline of events, phone calls & whether they Actually took place at all, has yet to be verified! I expect to see phone records &\or recordings to back up the claims of those that put out the releases.

I'm somewhat sceptical that a Mayor would harp on about it being Governments fault when he knew they would have evidence to the contrary! Evidence that could see him standing in court to fight claims of negligence or even involuntary manslaughter! It just doesn't stack up IMO.

So far it's just word of mouth - usually a good way to besmirch a man's reputation without the need to provide proof of the claim! Because this has not been officially stated by the Whitehouse - there can be no accusation of dirty politics.

The Timeline needs to be confirmed & proven or denied by the Whitehouse before any credibility is attached to the releases. They'll no doubt keep quiet for a few weeks and let the story take hold before they decide to quelch the fires with an official denial - by which time the damage would have been done & gwb will have escaped blame.

'tis propoganda, to be taken with a large dose of salt.

[mcool61]

You got no sense of humor, you got no class and you got nothing intelligent to say. STFU
You sound like an ignorant horses rear. :mad:

Your lookin in the mirror as you say this, right?

Don't bother to reply I'm unsubscribed. :t

Yes I think I hear your mommy calling.

Just for future reference Hillbilly is a derogatory term used to describe people in the appalachian region of the U.S. much like the n word is used to describe blacks.

Who you calling a bigot?

that would be you

[Strawbs]

...

I'm somewhat sceptical that a Mayor would harp on about it being Governments fault when he knew they would have evidence to the contrary! Evidence that could see him standing in court to fight claims of negligence or even involuntary manslaughter! It just doesn't stack up IMO.

...If you were guilty of the misappropriation of federal funds [as the releases infer] wouldn't you be working quietly to find a way to appease the government, rather than angering them further with wild accusations?

'tis propoganda to be sure! don't keep falling for the same **** America. :(

[j.m@talk]

http://www.fancysplace.com/smileys/pancakes.gif's
















http://www.fancysplace.com/images/misc/14eo/cake9yz.png

[mireland]

I miss Bob Denver... :(

[Strawbs]

I miss Bob Denver... :(Go tell it on the Mountain! :p

[mireland]

Go tell it on the Mountain! :p

this thread IS the mountain... :rolleyes:

[Strawbs]

this thread IS the mountain... :rolleyes:Noooo ...you need the "Rocky Mountain High" where he crashed his plane. :r

oh wait ....that was his brother John! my bad. :rolleyes:

[j.m@talk]

& people laugh as I ride past on our alsation dog ...
Ohh fall out calipso, Ohh fall out calipso, things falling out all over the place, the nose & the throat, the head & the knees, but the government says it will be OK .......

Mike Harding early 80's

[zybch]

And what was he on at the time?

[j.m@talk]

Mixture I fink :D

[zybch]

Splains a lot.

[herosrest]

And what was he on at the time?


alsation dog. r they french or german?

[j.m@talk]

German Shep ............ :D

[herosrest]

owoooooooooo... ruff rufff

[Someone Stupid]

I don't know what you all are saying, but all I know is that for the past ****ing week I've been in New Orleans and Chalmette with a boat. I've seen **** I never could have imagined and while I did some good, it never felt like enough as it wasn't. It still isn't. From what I've seen the government has failed many many many souls miserably - and it knew about it. This disaster was in the top 3 FEMA has planned for - apparently to **** it up. Once I cool down a bit, get some sleep (if I can), I'll elaborate. But it's a ****ing mess - very much more so than the scattered news clips I've seen or had relayed to me when I managed to talk to a few friends outside the region. Censorship is the key word here - it is being done HEAVILY. If you want to help, the best way is to write your state reps and get friends to do the same - donating to the Red Cross as well - even though they are entirely overwhelmed - they at least have been trying not to let those stranded die. The federal government doesn't care about us - honestly. I cannot count the number of ways HS and FEMA made the local goverment impotent and also ****ed everybody else in the process by not doing a damned thing themselves. Forgive my profanity and I have no idea where the hell this thread has gone (as I'm heard this **** enough lately) - but I saw it was the Katrina post - so I'm throwing it in here. Seriously, if you can spare even a damned dime, the Red Cross can use it long as FEMA doesn't **** that up as they have been doing quite a damned good bit.

For years we said this would happen and for years we were ignored. The current administration even cut back funding to the limited resources we were given to shore up our system beforehand. It wasn't nearly enough before and after it was cut, it was nothing. Thousands in the end will have paid for this with their lives. Drowning and being knawed on by a dog days later isn't a way anyone should die, yet I've seen it. When it finally did happen, we were ignored again. Why? What makes us not as valuable as the lives of those of other large disasters? I can't find the answer to the question - or at least I don't want to believe the one I have. This was preventable in every since of the word - just nobody cared about a bunch of people who weren't wealthy, white, and protestant.

[herosrest]

:( :t . Good to know you are ok.
Enjoy your rest and be well. :t

[mcool61]

:( :t . Good to know you are ok.
Enjoy your rest and be well. :t

ditto

[genesound]

Hang in there SS. Keep us posted.

Can we help you there? I'm not sure what to do from here other than donate money. Can we help with communications somehow? or something?

Check back from time to time if you can.

Gene

[werz]

I don't think you understand one thing maybe. The federal government nor another state are not allowed to just send troops into a state, the state must request them.

Doesn't Dubya watch TV I saw the mayor and guv askin for help days before it got there. :rolleyes: maybe he was waiting for the req in triplicate. :confused:

[genesound]

I don't really have a clue who ferked up and when, and am not versed in the necessary procedures. All I can do now is try to help.

[ukulele]

Thanks SS for all your help. I suspected as much from the first few days when so little effort was demonstrated by our government while the most responsible bureaucrats sized up their legal aspects and liabilities and finally decided it was time to RTFM. Please do keep us in touch here a sysopt and stay safe.

[mcool61]

They will probably hire illegal mexicans because FEMA will mandate Bacon-Davis wages and nobody can afford that except the government. .

I heard on cnn they passed legislation that lifts the requirements from the Bacon-Davis act & also allows hiring of undocumented workers for 45 days without fear of reprisal. So don't go looking for a prevailing wage in Louisiana & if you plan to sell food to the reconstruction workers, be sure to take some tacos. MMMM yummy

[genesound]

Doesn't Dubya watch TV I saw the mayor and guv askin for help days before it got there. :rolleyes: maybe he was waiting for the req in triplicate. :confused:TV is just TV, hell it's just a piece of furniture.... you dont really think governing occurs from TV do you :eek:

[mcool61]

you dont really think governing occurs from TV do you :eek:

Perhaps it should. Whatever method they're using didn't work too well.

[genesound]

Perhaps it should. Whatever method they're using didn't work too well.Well I certainly won't dispute that, but TV is widely varied in scope and bias. You want all US policy based on Fox news, or some liberal channel for that matter???

I seriously doubt it :rolleyes:

[mcool61]

Well I certainly won't dispute that, but TV is widely varied in scope and bias. You want all US policy based on Fox news, or some liberal channel for that matter???

I seriously doubt it :rolleyes:

You realize fox is biased? If so your a minority. Especially among conservatives of any type. As a minority perhaps you qualify for special privileges.

[BadDriver]

Nagin and Blanco have been silent lately haven't they? I mean as far as finger pointing goes. Why?

Because they were the ones responsible for pre planning, evacuation, requesting assistance, and first response.

I feel terrible, awful about what has happened in N.O. I have given what I can afford to give but blaming the feds isn't right. If anybody needs to hang over this it is the local government.

The beginning of this thread was saying racisim was to blame. :rolleyes:

It is a mess, but racism is BS. It is just not true. If it were true then maybe Nagin and Blanco should be hung instead of playing the Race Card on the feds. That is just freaking ridiculous.

Oh well, if that is what you want to believe and if it makes it easier for you to swallow go for it. Since it did happen in the deep south?? Right?

[mcool61]

I think poor had more to do with it than race. Do you think there would have been any delay in providing help to those people if they had been rich? The hospital at Tulane University was evacuated days before anybody helped the people in the county hospital.
All those in charge share some of the blame. The local officials should have done more before the hurricane & levee debacle & the feds should have acted faster when it became apparent the state couldn't handle it. It scored points with me when President Bush stepped forward & accepted the blame for an inadequate federal response. Unfortunately there are several people no longer with us & his admission won't bring them back.
Let us hope we do better next time & that none of us is in need.

[BadDriver]

I can accept poor maybe. Rich folks may have gotten help sooner? I don't know for sure.

Race should have never been dragged into a tragedy like this. It sucks for everybody and I am sure some white folks died also because of dragging feet.

[crapyking]

I think my girlfriend said it (a teacher), "you can't teach stupid". I'm sorry to say the whole social structure in the deep south is corrupt. If you live in povery & a poor environment as a kid you just don't know better, your really ignorant. Stupid uneducated parents w/ no work ethics & no skills to pass on to there kids. It's a terrible cycle. Now that's not to say those people (regarless of race) can't improve, it's just difficult.

[mcool61]

Something else i've wondered about. Since I used to work on a farm I know when you breed certain animals you get certain traits. Selective breeding of a sort. I've often wondered that if people kept other people as slaves wouldn't they allow certain types to live while others who have been more headstrong or perhaps even intelligent got lynched? It would eliminate what we might now consider desirable genes from the pool. Maybe. I dunno. Just a thought.

[genesound]

Yeah then all those ignoramuses elect an ignorant, ineffective, poor excuse for a leader as a mayor. If he'd taken care of business before the storm, much of the tragedy and deaths could have been avoided. Maybe he dances well at the Mardi Gras, but he sure wasn't very well spoken during the mayhem, and is not a suitable leader for a city surrounded by levies.

[mcool61]

Yeah then all those ignoramuses elect an ignorant, ineffective, poor excuse for a leader. If he'd taken care of business before the storm, much of the tragedy and deaths could have been avoided. .

The same could be said at the national level.

[j.m@talk]

The same could be said at the national level.


"Q" Lando :rolleyes:


:D

[mireland]

"Q" Lando :rolleyes:


:D


I'm stayin' the hell out of this one... :rolleyes:

[herosrest]

Construction news update for ya. Consturction update. http://www.cement.org/

and

[ukulele]

Once the local government went under it was too late for them to do much else. Sure they screwed up, but that's when the feds should have been there to take over. The feds deserve the lions share of the blame for the bungled relief effort once it was too late for the local government to handle the problem. Why didn't the feds get the job done? Because people are apointed to cabinet positions by the encumbient predident and Bush is an inept a** kisser would got in power by a** kissing just like everybody in his cabinet. That's why the head of FEMA was a disgraced former head of the Arabian Horse Association, and an incompetent liar who cheated to get where he was, just like Chenny is a former CEO of Haliburton who was an obvious war hawk and has no business in a leadership role in the country. He would be at his best trading used obsolete tanks to guys like Saddam for oil instead of blowing up the country. Now we have a worthless wannabe society's AARP pinup girl Condolica Rice out mucking it up in the rest of the world, selling out the country to any foriegn country with a sweat shop, as the Secretary of State.

I say it's time to stop passing the buck. The neo-cons have failed miserably to privide one shred of decency to the current administration. This administration has passed more federal regulations and destroyed more indivual rights than any other administration in history. It is now working furiously and as fast as it can to sell the rest of the country's industry to foriegn control before the next election. Clinton(a democrat), who the conservatives despise with a passion, eliminated the open ended life long welfare state that 12 years of republicans before him did nothing about but whine and whine and whine. Wake up folks.

[mcool61]

Something else i've wondered about. Since I used to work on a farm I know when you breed certain animals you get certain traits. Selective breeding of a sort. I've often wondered that if people kept other people as slaves wouldn't they allow certain types to live while others who have been more headstrong or perhaps even intelligent got lynched? It would eliminate what we might now consider desirable genes from the pool. Maybe. I dunno. Just a thought.

Nobody wants to touch this one. Don't blame ya. Was afraid to post it myself. Still, I think there may be a grain of truth in it despite how much we would like to ignore it.

[porsch1909]

Something else i've wondered about. Since I used to work on a farm I know when you breed certain animals you get certain traits. Selective breeding of a sort. I've often wondered that if people kept other people as slaves wouldn't they allow certain types to live while others who have been more headstrong or perhaps even intelligent got lynched? It would eliminate what we might now consider desirable genes from the pool. Maybe. I dunno. Just a thought.


So in more simple terms you are suggesting that black people are stupid because the white people breeded them that way?

:rolleyes:

[ukulele]

So in more simple terms you are suggesting that black people are stupid because the white people breeded them that way?

:rolleyes:

Actually the slaves were bred for size and strength as well as docility. They were never educated so there was no real practical way to breed them for intelligence. If you really want to read a fascinating and very accurate history of one slave breeders "human ranch", read the book Mandingo by Kyle Onstott. There is also a sequel that continues the story after the slaves were freed and returned to the plantation as owners and heirs after the civil war. This book will wake you up about the terrible injustice that the slaves endured in the early half of America's history.

[genesound]

There was also the movie "Mandingo". It came out around the time I was living in the "jungle" as the residents refered to the area.

[ukulele]

There was also the movie "Mandingo". It came out around the time I was living in the "jungle" as the residents refered to the area.

I saw the movie too. It was way toned down and abreviated. Read the book, you can't put it down and it's a long book.

[porsch1909]

Im reading the da vinci code......


It's an annoying book :p