Is it true???

[RockNRoll]

I heard from a friend the next gen consoles will have technology better than PC's... Personally I don't believe it is true simply because:

The next wave of GFX cards are coming.
PPU's are coming.
Dual core CPU's are coming.
Etc. etc. etc.

I think it's just hype to sell more consoles cuz nobody wants one. Everyone wants PC's and I really think the console industry is losing it.

[Vitalka]

Consols can't be more powerful then PCs. Games are made on PCs, therefor PCs must be as powerfull or more powerful. Plus consols always have the same hardware from the point they came out, where PCs always get upgrades.:D Plus consols hardware comes from PCs.

[RamonGTP]

WOW, thats flawed logic if i've ever seen it.

Humans make cars, so cars can't be faster than humans is basically the same principle as what you're saying :rolleyes:

Yes, the next generation consoles are more powerfull than todays PC's and will most likely be more powerfull for the next geneartion of PCs as well.

Please explain to me how console hardware comes from PC's? Sure, some hardware might be migrated over, but not all. In fact, these next generation consoles are getting GPU's that the PC doesn't have yet. If you could also explain to me how the CELL microprocessor came from the PC, i'd be delighted.

I know its hard to believe a kids toy that only cost a fraction of what a gaming PC is more powerfull, but the sooner you can accept it the better off you'll be.

[RamonGTP]

I'd also like to add that the next generation of GPU's MIGHT be nearly as powerfull as what the consoles are using, but PC's will still be behind the curve as far as CPU power goes.

[Vitalka]

I don't see those consols going dual core. And their GPUs come from PC end. They are just redisigned for the consol. Just because you already have seen their power it doesn't make PC less powerfull. New generation consols are not even out yet. By the time they will be out PC will have new hardware equal to wha is inside he consols. Plus PCs can be more powerfull still, because you can have SLI, more RAM. 64bit dual core CPUs are on their way for the PCs. And cell processor will be bitten bythe time it finnaly arrives.

[Vitalka]

Originally posted by RamonGTP
WOW, thats flawed logic if i've ever seen it.

Humans make cars, so cars can't be faster than humans is basically the same principle as what you're saying :rolleyes:



And how did you ever thought of that, it doesn't make any sense. Have you seen a human running at 200km/h? :rolleyes:

[crazyCol]

you can write a program in notepad, then compile that text file into machine code, but the computer you use to do that doesn't need the power to execute that code. That is the point everybody is making.

Sony don't make money selling consoles but out of the games that run on those consoles.

[crazyCol]

Originally posted by Vitalka
And how did you ever thought of that, it doesn't make any sense. Have you seen a human running at 200km/h? :rolleyes:

No humans can't run at 200kph but cars can. that is why the coment makes sence.

To answer your orignal question:

YES it can be true.

[Vitalka]

So you guys are saying that New generation Consols are more powerfull then PCs. And yet these Consols are not out yet, and next genration PC parts are not out yet, so how can you compare something that you have no knowledge of?

[crazyCol]

So how do you know a Cell processor will be beaten when it comes out?

[Vitalka]

Plastation 2 is powerless compared to modern computers. Plus Playstation 3 has a redisigned version of the next Nvidia's GPU, so PCs will have the same power for sure in graphices. PS3 probably will remain with the same CPU for years just like PS2 did.

[crazyCol]

The company I work for has just started selling to the customers a product that first started development in 1997, they knew the specs back then but the market wasn't ready for those products.

I would guess from my personal exprience in the electronics manafacturing industry that Sony started work on the PS3 before the PS2 was in the shops.

[crazyCol]

The stablilty of the hardware platform is one of the main selling points of consoles to the software companys.

[Vitalka]

Originally posted by crazyCol
I would guess from my personal exprience in the electronics manafacturing industry that Sony started work on the PS3 before the PS2 was in the shops.

I'd be surprised if they didn't. Don't you think the same happens in PC industry, I bet there are CPU's that we regular people can only dream of.

When coming to consols, it always comes down to money. They cost less then a PC, because the are being produced in in big quontities. They use the same hardware, which comes down in price with time.

PC on the other hand they evolve each year. We get new GPUs each year. Faster CPUs. Faster RAM. Because PC hardware is new compared to consolse it costs more. And people who understand how to use a computer, and those who are willing to put up with diferent tweaks that a PC must go trough, buy compuers instead of console.
PCs move forward every year, where consoles once every 4 years or so.

[crazyCol]

So you have just answered your own question.

That how and why consoles can be more powerful that PCs.

Trap set, bate taken.:t

[Vitalka]

Yep PCs are atleast one step ahead of consols. :D

[crazyCol]

Originally posted by crazyCol
So you have just answered your own question.

That how and why consoles can be more powerful that PCs.

Trap set, bate taken.:t

[crazyCol]

Originally posted by Vitalka
... Playstation 3 has a redisigned version of the next Nvidia's GPU.....


make your mind up

[crazyCol]

And there is something else that holds PCs back for gaming: Windows and all its background procceses

[Shoreguy]

This whole thread seemed to be trollbait, so I'll confirm:

Prior IQ: 154

Post-Read IQ: 97.2

This thread has cost me my MENSA Sertaficashun....thancks allot!

[crazyCol]

Sorry Shoreguy, read a childs book and get a good night sleep, that will be a start to your recovery;)

[Vitalka]

Originally posted by crazyCol
And there is something else that holds PCs back for gaming: Windows and all its background procceses

Maybe you should educate your self, on how a PC works then you would not post such statments. :rolleyes:

[RamonGTP]

Originally posted by Vitalka
I don't see those consols going dual core. And their GPUs come from PC end. They are just redisigned for the consol. Just because you already have seen their power it doesn't make PC less powerfull. New generation consols are not even out yet. By the time they will be out PC will have new hardware equal to wha is inside he consols. Plus PCs can be more powerfull still, because you can have SLI, more RAM. 64bit dual core CPUs are on their way for the PCs. And cell processor will be bitten bythe time it finnaly arrives.

That just proves you don't know what you're talking about. The PS3 processors has 8 cores and the GPU didn't come from the PC, the console had these next gen GPUs first, so if we look at it from your skewed point of view, we can say that the PC got its GPU from the consoles.

[RamonGTP]

Originally posted by Vitalka
And how did you ever thought of that, it doesn't make any sense. Have you seen a human running at 200km/h? :rolleyes:

Exactly my point guy... Just because console games are written with PC's, doesn't mean that PC's are more powerfull.

[Vitalka]

http://www.bit-tech.net/news/2005/05/25/rsx_still_in_development/

At the recent J.P. Morgan technology conference, NVIDIA's CFO, Marv Burkett, gave a fifteen-minute presentation discussing how business matters inside NVIDIA are flowing, including how well certain areas of the business are growing. The larger topics covered included RSX, the chip behind the awesome graphics on Playstation 3, and upcoming 90 nanometre products.

Burkett stated that RSX is still in development and that no actual silicon is available yet. In other words, the silicon is not even taped out thus far. If we look at Sony's schedule, we expect that RSX is being finalised right now, and should be taped out before September, and the first silicon will be available nearer Christmas, in time for enough units to be made in the run up to the expected Spring 2006 launch.

The beauty is that once NVIDIA have bug-free silicon and the chip works as it is meant to, Sony will take complete control of production, paying NVIDIA for the technology. Once Sony take over production, NVIDIA need not worry about anything related to the production of the GPU, which means that the money they make of Playstation 3 will be free, as their work was completed before Sony took over the reins.

This means that there is one question that remains unanswered. The pre-E3 press conference that was held by Sony had a large number of technology demos - what GPU was used to render those if RSX is still in development?

Burkett discussed how NVIDIA and Sony had used an upcoming product with many similar capabilities to the RSX to demonstrate the capabilities of the Playstation 3 GPU. The demos at the show were running on NVIDIA's upcoming high-end desktop part, and also SLI systems. It is unclear whether these were based on the new desktop part that we've referred to as G70 in the past, or whether they were GeForce 6800 Ultra SLI combinations.

So, if NVIDIA's upcoming part is capable of all that we saw demonstrated at the press conference, what is RSX capable of?

Seems like a PC doing consols job, does it very nicely too.

[Plaster]

Originally posted by Vitalka
Maybe you should educate your self, on how a PC works then you would not post such statments. :rolleyes:

ROFL! He's right. Resources consumed by the operating system severely hamper the games people try to play on a PC. If you don't believe me, go grab an xbox and a copy of Doom 3. That will run you about $200. Then go grab 733mhz Celeron, 64MB of PC1066 RAM and a GF 4 ti4600 and of course a PC version of Doom 3 and Windows 2000. That will run you about $500.

Now that you have all of that, pop the Doom3 game in each system put the PC at the lowest quality setting. Now watch and wonder how the lowly xbox pushes out not only better image quality, but an astonishing 800% higher framerate. You're probably wondering how a system with a 733MHz CPU and 64MB of RAM shared between video and system can possibly beat a similar spec, yet more expensive PC. Simple, all xbox's are the same. All xbox's have a tiny version of the Win2K kernel as thier primary OS. This OS consumes next to no resources giving 99.9% of all system resources to the simple task of running a game. Just loading XP on the other hand consumes roughly 200MB of RAM for background services. All of those services require RAM and require CPU time to continue to run.

Face it. You really have no clue about any of this. ;)

[Vitalka]

But my point is that a powerfull PC will give better results then XBOX. Better image quality.

You're probably wondering how a system with a 733MHz CPU and 64MB of RAM shared between video and system can possibly beat a similar spec, yet more expensive PC.

No, not really. Low resolution, low texture quality, due to how TV works it seems good. Plus XBOX uses something else besides 64MB of ram.

[Plaster]

Originally posted by Vitalka
But my point is that a powerfull PC will give better results then XBOX. Better image quality.



No, not really. Low resolution, low texture quality, due to how TV works it seems good. Plus XBOX uses something else besides 64MB of ram.

Yeah, it uses something else, a HDD and a DVD Drive. It still only has a grand total of 64MB of shared memory. AKA AGP.

As for the resolution, The xbox runs Doom 3 at 640x480. It would still be 640x480 on a PC monitor if you used a proper adapter. It gets a consistent 30fps which is better performance than my 2GHz Athlon XP and Radeon 9600XT can muster at the same resolution and a similar image quality level. Now, a PC with similar specs as an xbox would push out around 3-6fps.

The new systems (PS3 and 360) will offer HD resolutions up to 1080i for the xbox and 1080p for the PS3. Now, in computer speak, that would be 1920x1080. Most games will probably peak at 720p (1280x720) and use 4XAA.

The point you seem to be missing in the thread as a whole is the relative cost. If you were to throw a PC together with comparable power to the xbox 360 or the PS3 you would spend upwards of $5000. And, with the current state of CPUs you'd have to go Apple and get a G5 based system with 6 or more 3.2GHz G5 CPUs.

Now, will the top of the line PC be as fast as a 360 or PS3 in 2006? Absolutely not. Will it rival it in 2007? Probably so. The point your missing is the benefit of a stable hardware platform when it comes to gaming. You won't have to go out and buy a $500 video upgrade to play the latest and greates game every 1.5 years. And don't be fooled, the quality of the console games will increase with each passing month as the software devs get more and more familiar with the hardware. The PC will also get stronger and after a few years will probably trounce each in raw power but at a steep price. In 5-7 years from thier inception, the next round of consoles will debut and outperform PC's again for a year or two. It happens every time.

[RamonGTP]

Better than xbox? yes
Better than PS2? yes

Better than xbox 360? no
Better than PS3? no

Eventually, the no will change to yes, but not now, and not in the next generation. Like I said, even if the next gen GPU's are equivilent to the consoles, the consoles sill have more powerfull CPUs and as plaster already pointed out, have a LOT less overhead. By the time PC's catch up to these consoles, there will be new consoles replacing them before too long and the process will start all over again.

The fact of the matter is that consoles generate more revenue than PC's do, that is the reason for throwing so much technology at them. In addition to that, consoels are propritairy, Sony and MS egnineers are free to use their imagination on how to build the system. PC's have to follow a whole lot of standards in order to get all the different hardware and software functioning properly. This is a non-issue with consoels which makes the possibilities virtually limitless.

With HDTV, the resolution is a non-issue as well. So thats another advantage that PCs HAD which they no longer have.

EDIT: Looks like plaster beat me to the punch. I sound like a distant echo now :eek:

[Vitalka]

I'll be the smart one and I'll shut my pie now, because this thread can go on forever. No point of waisting my time on forums, talking about PC vs. console anyway, when it comes out, we will all see. I better go outside and do something healthy. :cool:

[germanNiklas]

Originally posted by RockNRoll
I think it's just hype to sell more consoles cuz nobody wants one. Everyone wants PC's and I really think the console industry is losing it.

and thats totally NOT TRUE!
ALOT of people want the xbox 360/ps3

just in my class are about 6 people who will definitely get a ps3 or xbox 360 and i know many more!

[RamonGTP]

I didn't even catch that comment, lol... I don't know what rock you've been living under, but have you went to any stores that sell games lately? Look at their selection of console games, then look at their selection of PC games. You can't even compare the two. Have you been keeping up with where the game dev's are going? Obviously not. Not only do consoles have more devs creating games for them, but more and more are going to consoles from PC's because there is more money in them. Basically what i'm trying to say is, the EXACT oposite is true of what you said. Its unfortunate really, I love my PC and I enjoy my PC games more than I do my console games, I enjoy the satisfaction of building/tweaking my own gaming rig and enjoying how well it runs graphically intensive games, but thats just the way it is.

Think about it, if the console market were "losing it" you really think MS would waste all this money on their console when they already have the strongest foothold in the PC's? If consoles were "losing it", would Sony invest MILLIONS UPON MILLIONS of dollars into the R&D of the playstation 3? If the console market were "losing it" you think MS would willingly sell their consoles at a loss? The reason they don't mind selling them at a loss is becuase the console market is SO HUGE that they KNOW they will more than make up for it in game sales. Anyway, I could go on, but hopefully you see the light by now.

[crazyCol]

Originally posted by Vitalka
I'll be the smart one and I'll shut my pie now, because this thread can go on forever. No point of waisting my time on forums, talking about PC vs. console anyway, when it comes out, we will all see. I better go outside and do something healthy. :cool:

Arr poor Vitalka don't like being wrong.

and as for being the smart one

posted by Shoreguy
This whole thread seemed to be trollbait, so I'll confirm:

Prior IQ: 154

Post-Read IQ: 97.2

This thread has cost me my MENSA Sertaficashun....thancks allot!

Hit the nail on the head
I laughed for a good five minutes when I first read that post

[Tech^salvager]

Originally posted by RamonGTP
That just proves you don't know what you're talking about. The PS3 processors has 8 cores and the GPU didn't come from the PC, the console had these next gen GPUs first, so if we look at it from your skewed point of view, we can say that the PC got its GPU from the consoles.
you do know thats one powerpc core and a iirc 8 vector units\cores

[Tech^salvager]

Originally posted by RamonGTP
WOW, thats flawed logic if i've ever seen it.

Humans make cars, so cars can't be faster than humans is basically the same principle as what you're saying :rolleyes:

Yes, the next generation consoles are more powerfull than todays PC's and will most likely be more powerfull for the next geneartion of PCs as well.

Please explain to me how console hardware comes from PC's? Sure, some hardware might be migrated over, but not all. In fact, these next generation consoles are getting GPU's that the PC doesn't have yet. If you could also explain to me how the CELL microprocessor came from the PC, i'd be delighted.

I know its hard to believe a kids toy that only cost a fraction of what a gaming PC is more powerfull, but the sooner you can accept it the better off you'll be.
well not pcs but w\e
the Cell is a powerpc cpu really

Consols can't be more powerful then PCs. Games are made on PCs, therefor PCs must be as powerfull or more powerful. Plus consols always have the same hardware from the point they came out, where PCs always get upgrades. Plus consols hardware comes from PCs.
sure they can be more powerful then PCs, but then PC keep getting upgrades so there will be a point where the PC will surpass the console. Games are made on more then just PCs and even there, games can be made with better GFX then what is used on pcs at the current.
n64 used SGI indys at the start for deving,

I don't see those consols going dual core.
xbox 360 will have a triple core powerpc cpu
And their GPUs come from PC end. They are just redisigned for the consol.
um no these GPU's are usually specifily created for the console not just redesigned cpus, and no not all cpus come from the pc end.

[RockNRoll]

Wow I forgot about this thread...

ROFL! He's right. Resources consumed by the operating system severely hamper the games people try to play on a PC. If you don't believe me, go grab an xbox and a copy of Doom 3. That will run you about $200. Then go grab 733mhz Celeron, 64MB of PC1066 RAM and a GF 4 ti4600 and of course a PC version of Doom 3 and Windows 2000. That will run you about $500.

Now that you have all of that, pop the Doom3 game in each system put the PC at the lowest quality setting. Now watch and wonder how the lowly xbox pushes out not only better image quality, but an astonishing 800% higher framerate. You're probably wondering how a system with a 733MHz CPU and 64MB of RAM shared between video and system can possibly beat a similar spec, yet more expensive PC. Simple, all xbox's are the same. All xbox's have a tiny version of the Win2K kernel as thier primary OS. This OS consumes next to no resources giving 99.9% of all system resources to the simple task of running a game. Just loading XP on the other hand consumes roughly 200MB of RAM for background services. All of those services require RAM and require CPU time to continue to run.

Face it. You really have no clue about any of this.

LOLOL Ok sure u wanna compare the XBOX to that? Sorry that's like comparing a telephone to a walkie talkie.

What about modding? There is simply NO replayability whatsoever with console games which is why there are so many. You can't add more multiplayer maps, skins, items, etc. How much more boring can you get? All the people who buy consoles spend more money than people with high-end gaming rigs cuz everyone gets bored with one game after a few plays and moves on to the next spending $50 each.

FPS games? Sure lemme get my unprecise controller to aim and shoot. Basically consolers have to rely on auto-aim. "Haa haa!" you say "Keyboard and mouse configurations are coming for consoles!" you say. Well guess what... PC already has them LOLOLOLOLOL! Now if that's not being behind in technology I dunno what is.

Just like Vitalka posted... PC's are already showing demos for the next gen consoles, now if that's not obvious right there...? I don't see the PS2 showing next gen PC demos do you?

I'm gonna say (and always will) IMO PC's are better for gaming due to many obvious reasons.

Note: no offense meant to anyone here in this post just making my point.;)

[Plaster]

Originally posted by RockNRoll
Wow I forgot about this thread...



LOLOL Ok sure u wanna compare the XBOX to that? Sorry that's like comparing a telephone to a walkie talkie.

What about modding? There is simply NO replayability whatsoever with console games which is why there are so many. You can't add more multiplayer maps, skins, items, etc. How much more boring can you get? All the people who buy consoles spend more money than people with high-end gaming rigs cuz everyone gets bored with one game after a few plays and moves on to the next spending $50 each.

FPS games? Sure lemme get my unprecise controller to aim and shoot. Basically consolers have to rely on auto-aim. "Haa haa!" you say "Keyboard and mouse configurations are coming for consoles!" you say. Well guess what... PC already has them LOLOLOLOLOL! Now if that's not being behind in technology I dunno what is.

Just like Vitalka posted... PC's are already showing demos for the next gen consoles, now if that's not obvious right there...? I don't see the PS2 showing next gen PC demos do you?

I'm gonna say (and always will) IMO PC's are better for gaming due to many obvious reasons.

Note: no offense meant to anyone here in this post just making my point.;)

I wasn't so much comparing a PC to a console as I was pointing out the toll that OS takes on performance. Your post touched on that in absolutely no way what so ever. Congratulations.

What about modding? You don't think an xbox can be modded? Maybe you should check out http://forums.xbox-scene.com .

No replay value in console games? rofl, are you nuts? What makes you think you need game mods to replay a game? That sounds like a personal preference to me, not a fact as you lay it out. What about RPG's with multiple classes, paths, etc? How about racing games like Forza or GT4? Personally, I won't even buy a game for any platform unless it has replay value. As it stands, there are free downloadable add-ons for many games on Xbox live. There are also those which you have to pay for, but that's the same as the PC.

As for the mouse and keyboard, I don't say they are coming. They're already available. (http://gear.ign.com/articles/558/558944p1.html) Nothing earth shattering, but with the aim assist you dread so much, more than adequate.

What Vitalka didn't mention is those weren't solitary PC's showing the demos. They were clusters, as in 2 or more multi-cpu Apple G5 Macs. Perhaps you also noticed the extreme drops in framerate of the live demonstrations as well. You think they'll release a console game with framerate dips in the low single digits?

Now, since you made entirely opinion based post, I guess I'll offer a few opinions.

1. Overall, consoles offer a better, more broad based gaming experience. The plethora of genre's as well as the ability to play games in total comfort just overwhelms the PC experience.

2. The PC has advantages. The mouse and KB setup make the PC the ideal platform for FPS and RTS games. Which might explain why those two genre's make up about 90% of all games released on the PC in the past 7 years. It also has the added benefit of user mods.

IMO the overall advantages lay with the console. You don't have to spend hundreds of dollars every other year to be able to play the latest game/s the way the programmers intended. You buy a game, you throw it in, it works. With the PC, you buy a game, hope it performs well, if it doesn't, you upgrade. The hardware cost along with the added cost of the games themselves completely thwarts the PC attempts to be the be all end all of gaming. It never has been and never will be.

[RamonGTP]

Originally posted by RockNRoll
Wow I forgot about this thread...



LOLOL Ok sure u wanna compare the XBOX to that? Sorry that's like comparing a telephone to a walkie talkie.

What about modding? There is simply NO replayability whatsoever with console games which is why there are so many. You can't add more multiplayer maps, skins, items, etc. How much more boring can you get? All the people who buy consoles spend more money than people with high-end gaming rigs cuz everyone gets bored with one game after a few plays and moves on to the next spending $50 each.

FPS games? Sure lemme get my unprecise controller to aim and shoot. Basically consolers have to rely on auto-aim. "Haa haa!" you say "Keyboard and mouse configurations are coming for consoles!" you say. Well guess what... PC already has them LOLOLOLOLOL! Now if that's not being behind in technology I dunno what is.

Just like Vitalka posted... PC's are already showing demos for the next gen consoles, now if that's not obvious right there...? I don't see the PS2 showing next gen PC demos do you?

I'm gonna say (and always will) IMO PC's are better for gaming due to many obvious reasons.


Note: no offense meant to anyone here in this post just making my point.;)

You have no point, there are keyboards and mice available for consoles, so that negates your point about that. Reason for PS3 demo's being showin on PC's are simply because the PS3 hardware hasn't been finalized yet, nothing more. Are you implying that the consoles cannot handle their own games, thats why they're being showin on the PC? :rolleyes:

You want to talk about technology? PC's are still using x86 based processors which have been around since..... Probably before you were even born. What about that games on the PS3 are designed to take advantage of 8 cores, PC games, single core even if you have a dual core processor.

You can "LOLOLOLOLOL" all you want, but if you actually do some research and see whats going on in the gaming world, you will see that you are in the minority if you think PC gaming is above and beyond console gaming. You're entitled to your own opinion obviously, but many of your comments are simply wrong. Like thinking the reason PS3 demo's are shown on a PC actually means something, it doens't. If you knew what you were talking about, you'd have known that. Anyway, I have no doubt you'll reply to this post and continue to show your ignorance.

[Plaster]

Originally posted by RamonGTP
Anyway, I have no doubt you'll reply to this post and continue to show your ignorance.

Probably something along the lines of "But the games are made with PC's!" As if we're saying consoles are somehow a threat to PC's. They're not, consoles are game machines. PC's are productivity machines that just happen to offer the ability to play games.

[germanNiklas]

Originally posted by RockNRoll
Wow I forgot about this thread...



LOLOL Ok sure u wanna compare the XBOX to that? Sorry that's like comparing a telephone to a walkie talkie.

What about modding? There is simply NO replayability whatsoever with console games which is why there are so many. You can't add more multiplayer maps, skins, items, etc. How much more boring can you get? All the people who buy consoles spend more money than people with high-end gaming rigs cuz everyone gets bored with one game after a few plays and moves on to the next spending $50 each.

FPS games? Sure lemme get my unprecise controller to aim and shoot. Basically consolers have to rely on auto-aim. "Haa haa!" you say "Keyboard and mouse configurations are coming for consoles!" you say. Well guess what... PC already has them LOLOLOLOLOL! Now if that's not being behind in technology I dunno what is.

Just like Vitalka posted... PC's are already showing demos for the next gen consoles, now if that's not obvious right there...? I don't see the PS2 showing next gen PC demos do you?

I'm gonna say (and always will) IMO PC's are better for gaming due to many obvious reasons.

Note: no offense meant to anyone here in this post just making my point.;)

sorry to say but that was one stupid post

Plaster and RamonGTP said about everything i wanted to say and even more
good points there

Plaster, are you planning to get a "next gen console"?

[Plaster]

Originally posted by germanNiklas
Plaster, are you planning to get a "next gen console"?

Possibly. I waited until last year to grab the xbox. Both the PS3 and 360 look nice, but whether or not I can justify $300-$500 when my current machine is still usefull is the real question. If I do, it will more than likely be the 360. I've never been a fan of the Dual shock controllers and that new boomerang controller for the PS3 looks like RSI's waiting to happen.:p Add that with the large increase in game publishers signed up to both systems, I'd say either machine will be a can't miss.

[RockNRoll]

IMO the overall advantages lay with the console. You don't have to spend hundreds of dollars every other year to be able to play the latest game/s the way the programmers intended. You buy a game, you throw it in, it works.

Um... what? That's until they invent another game console which is like every 3 to 4 years... About the same amount of time you need to upgrade a PC.

SLI, dual GPU, PPU's, next gen CPU's, IMO consoles have never been better than PC's.

Geez u know something? How come it's human nature to try to make "the other guy" sound like an idiot while trying to prove your own point? LOL! I realize I may have done this so I'm sorry. I know lets have a poll to see how many ppl here on sysopt favor consoles or PC's.:D

[RamonGTP]

Originally posted by RamonGTP
Anyway, I have no doubt you'll reply to this post and continue to show your ignorance.

I was right apparently.

Its obvious you have no clue, because if you did, you would know that we are not arguing your prefrence, if we did, i may be on your side because I love my PC games. However, we're arguing the facts that you have a huge misconception of.

As far as "trying" to make the "other guy" look stupid, you're doing a pretty good job of that on your own.

[RockNRoll]

LOL! I try to turn this thread around and give an apology for being forceful of my own opinion and you just post THAT!?!?!? Congratulations on not getting it!:t

As far as "trying" to make the "other guy" look stupid, you're doing a pretty good job of that on your own.

You just had to reply back with a post like you did:rolleyes: .I'm not even going to remark on what you just said. Mods please close this post I guess some people can't take an apology and would rather fan the flame with remarks like such.

[germanNiklas]

its true tho :rolleyes:

[RamonGTP]

Your appoligy was of little regard to me since I did not feel your comments made anyone look like an idiot... Well, almost nobody. :t

[RockNRoll]

Geez u know something? How come it's human nature to try to make "the other guy" sound like an idiot while trying to prove your own point? LOL! I realize I may have done this so I'm sorry.

That's what I said... It was steered to ALL of us. Meaning that it's human nature to go "you're ignorant" "haa haa that's what you think" etc. and try to make it look like the other person knows not what they speak of. C'mon don't deny you do that we all do and I think we all did.:eek:

C'mon no more trouble and I admit my argumentive side of me came through when I saw u guys and vitalka arguing over which was better when really all I wanted to know was if what I heard was true: My original question was "Are the next gen consoles better than current PC hardware" if true then so be it, if so far that they are even better than next gen PC hardware then so be it too. I personally don't find a use for a console cuz I like PC's much better so I always seem to root for PC's, it's kinda like ATI or NVidia, or AMD or Intel. While NVidia is my favorite (I don't even really know why LOL!) ATI is coming out with a GFX card faster than the 7800 so I'll naturally root for NVidia to get in gear and make something better. The same with PC's... If a console comes out that's faster and better than current PC technology I'll naturally say "AAH GIT YERSELVES IN GEAR AND MAKE SOME BETTER PC'S!!!" LOLOL!:D :t

[RamonGTP]

That question was answered, and you didn't want to believe the truth. Why ask if you won't listen? I've said time and again that this debate is not about prefrence, yet you still don't seem to get it as evident by your new polling thread where you mention something about changing someones opionion. THIS IS NOT ABOUT CHANGING ANYBODYS OPINION. It is that very concept that you do not seem to grasp that makes you look like a fool. So here is what we have:

YOU: Is it true that the consoles are more powerfull?

Yes it is

YOU: No they can't be, we have keyboards and mice!

Yes they are

YOU: No, I refuse to believe that, not possible. (then you go on to state reasons why, none of which are relivent to power of the systems which was the original question)

YOU: I'm going to start a poll

Reasons why you make yourself look like an idiot:
1) you asked a question and refused to believe the truth
2) Came up with reasons why it can't be true, which were not reasons at all... Then refused to believe those are not valid reasons
3) Changed it to a prefrence thing, which was never the issue, no one argued that your prefrence is wrong.
4) Started a poll which will prove??? I don't know what, regardless of the results, the truth will still remain that the next gen consoles are more powerfull than PC's today.
5) Started a poll on a computer forum. Thats like going to a Mustang forum and asking what's better, a Mustang or a Camaro :rolleyes:

If you really want to get an idea of what the general population thinks, find a game that was released both on a console and the PC, then check the sales figures for that game on both platforms.

So here's some advise, next time you think of asking a question in hopes that the answer will be what you want it to be, might as well not ask the question unless you're willing to accept that the reality might be different than you preconcieved opinion.

[RamonGTP]

You know, upon furhter thought... I'm the idiot for trying so hard... I should have seen the light and given up somewhere around the middle of the third page.

[RockNRoll]

I admit my argumentive side of me came through when I saw u guys and vitalka arguing over which was better when really all I wanted to know was if what I heard was true: My original question was "Are the next gen consoles better than current PC hardware" if true then so be it, if so far that they are even better than next gen PC hardware then so be it too.

Uh, You read this no? Did you READ what I said? I'm the type of person that likes to argue and I TOLD you right there when I saw you guys arguing over this thread I jumped in while forgetting I wanted to know by fact instead of debate. You have taken all of my posts the wrong way and I'm sorry I can't help you with that. Be more open-minded. I didn't think my last post was THAT difficult to understand.

I stated if facts show that consoles are better then fine I believe it but now I root for PC to get going making stuff even better because I favor PC. Simple? Good... Now are you finished?

[Shoreguy]

Originally posted by Shoreguy
This whole thread seemed to be trollbait, so I'll confirm:

Prior IQ: 154

Post-Read IQ: 97.2

This thread has cost me my MENSA Sertaficashun....thancks allot!

ROFL...funny guy!!! Oop, that's my post! See...my IQ goes down by 56.8 points every time I click this thread.

...Darn trolls....

[Tech^salvager]

remmeber theres more then just PCs out there that can be used to dev for gaming consoles.
theres macs, though Apple is going to intel now, Also theres SGI PCs. infact PS, n64, PS2 are all have MIPS cpus. and mostly used SGI pcs for deving first, IIRC ultra64 is used with a SGI indy.

[Shoreguy]

In actuality, It has nothing to do with Console vs. PC. It has to do with international business. Let me elaborate...

General_001 at the pentagon says, "Hey, can we get better resolution and faster rendering on the sattelite images of Target_02222? I can't quite make out the mole on Pornstar_6789's left ankle."

Colonel_002 says, "Let me see what I can do..."

Colonel_002 calls the appropriate agencies, making up some story about Weapons of Mass Destruction in Iraq.

Agency_A through Agency_XXX spend 12 months trying to enhance the images, without consulting each other, only to realize their technology is outdates.

Agency_A through Agency_XXX contact the Dean of Astrophysics at MIT (Massachusetts Institute of Technology) to offer $10 Mil (US) in grant money to enhance resolution and rendering of their satellite images....Grant funded by Black Budget Fund_235999999.

DoA_MIT, while at conference of scolastic wonders mentions his latest project to the Dean of Business at Harvard University.

DoA_HBS ponders the economic impact and feasability this may have, and sets up a conference call between himself, DoA_MIT and the Dean of Engineering at Carnegie Melon University.

DoA_MIT, DoA_HBS and DoE_CMU all agree to set up a project headed up by their top undergrads.

Top Undergrad_MIT_SoA, Top Undergrad_HBS and Top Undergrad_CMU all decide that it's too cold in the North East US, so they make up a story that they need to set up a lab in Cupertino, California for a month to work out the equations and skematics.

While sitting in the lobby of the Overpriced_Luxury_Hotel_0009 discussing which California babe looks best in the past 10 minutes, their conversation of the project is overheard by USC_Marketing_Flunkee_888888881. USC_Flunkee is now a local manager of Cheetah's_9988212. USC_Flunkee states that he can get TU_001, TU_002 and TU_003 dates with real California babes that very night.

After 5 hours of deviation from the moral code, and many adult beverages, TU_001-003 spill their entire project to USC_Flunkee.

TU_001-003 never see USC_Flunkee again, so they wrap up their project, head back, submit their project to the appropriate deans, who in turn present the new funtionality back to Colonel_002 who shows General_001 that the mole is actually a butterfly tattoo. General_001 reports to the congress that it was all a mistake and there really were no WOMD in Iraq, and goes back to his latest satellite images.

USC_Flunkee meanwhile, contacts CAL_BERKLEY_BUDDY_001 at 4:18pm two days later. CBB_001 picks up the phone and says, "you've got 2 minutes....I'm loading up the device...". USCF decides this is best for a weekend roadtrip and tells CBB_001 he'll be up there the next afternoon.

USCF and CBB spend all weekend ....well, they did spend about 20 minutes talking about the TU project between their investigations of Humboldt export products. CBB_001 has just accepted an offer from Game_Designer_2323 and will begin in 3 weeks.

After 2 years on the job as a graphic designer (using a MAC), CBB_001 sees a PostIT on Hottie_Exective_Assistant_002's desk about posting an ad on Dice.Com for "Assistant_Marketing_Scum_3529". CBB_001 works his magic and 4 days later is hosting USC_Flunkee at his Overpriced_Studio_Apartment, while USC_F interviews at Game_Designer_2323.

USC_F successfully lies through his teeth about his accomplishments and gets the minimum wage job. CBB agrees to let USC_F move in and share the studio until USC_F gets settled. They spend the next 6 months in the cramped studio, overzealously investigating Humboldt, Jamaican, and Thai export products. Occasionally, they reference Hawaiian export for quality clarification.

One day, BOSSMAN_023 has lunch with ATARI_EXEC_099. ATARI_EXEC states that his profits are a bit off, and he needs to create a new platform and game genre to revitalize his stranglehold on the market. BOSSMAN states that he can get the game designed, but he can't guarantee exclusivity unless ATARI pays BOSSMAN $10M (US). ATARI tells BOSSMAN to begin the project on the verbal agreement, and he'll get approval.

BOSSMAN sets up a meeting with the managers of CBB and USC_F, leaving IT and MIS out of the loop as usual. CBB and USC_F are tasked with the project, and after 10 months, CBB can't get anything working correctly. Pressured by his boss, USC_F tells CBB that he has to put something out to press, or he's being kicked to the curb. CBB tells USC_F that he MIGHT have a beta version ready in 6 months. USC_F releases a press release stating ProductX is coming soon, and the full demo will be available for download next week.
Enraged, CBB cuts ties with USC_F and spills the beans to IT and MIS that his problems are the hardware technology. IT and MIS agree to save the day, and contact their Lan_Party_Buddies at NVidia and ATI. Both companies begin development on CHIPSET_105.99X.

ATARI, releases a press release stating PLATFORM_4 will be available soon.
NVidia and ATI release press releases, using screenshots from LAST_GEN_PRODUCT_Z, stating their new chipsets will be released shortly.

CBB finks on USC_F and gets him fired. Luckily, USC_F is dating the ACCOUNTING_INTERN_0654 for GAMING_DISTRIBUTOR_001 and quickly has VP_MARKETING title at GD_001. Bent on revenge, VP_M, GD_001 offers GAME_DESIGNER undercuts the bid to release the nexgen game, but puts in extremely fine print, "release platform will be determined by rock-paper-scissors".

USC_F then goes on a drinking binge and decides to release NexGenGame_099991 to 3rd_Party_Platform. NexGenGame_099991 bombs because CBB_001 began dating HOTTIE_EXECUTIVE_ASSISTANT_002 and leaves half the game with unrecoverable bugs and only 5!!!! Easter Eggs.


See....the graphics were designed on a MAC! ...had nothing to do with console vs. pc.

...there goes my creativity for the next 12 months.

[smactek]

Now I only have One question. Did the original Flunkee get the Hottie or Not! LOL!! Peace. :t

[satanx]

ok its been 2 years since i came here...this seems like a really simple argument to resolve,first,get your facts right.the cell and xbox360 and nintendo's(whatever) are not variants of the ppc/970(you prolly know this as the g5).
the ppc/970,funnily enough,is a pared down power5 ibm server chip.the cell has a single(mostly braindead)ppc type core as the 'controller' and 8 dsp cores...that do only very specific tasks...and,honestly,isn't well tuned for games,but will be an asskicker for stuff like video editing.(look at their demo,and thats what they show to 'show off' the cell).
the xbox,uses 3 (less braindead)ppc type cores(the 'xenon' cpu),that share the L2 cache...they have more altivec registers,128 of them,and probably 2 or 3 altivec type units.in both cases,the cpu's are different enough that to call them 'g5 variants' would be inaccurate,even the altivec units are significantly different.and really,if ibm could squeeze 3 ppc/970 cores onto a die,dont you think that macs would already have 2 or 3 core systems?
both console cpus are heavily customised to perform very specific tasks well...and as a consequence,perform others poorly.
my money is on the xbox right now,as its a more elegant approach to gaming on a console...but we havent seen nintendos cpu specs yet,and considering the dev time and secrecy,chances are its gonna be grunty as hell,and to us geeks,anyway,as shiny as a truckfull of mirrors.if you really want to know the nuts and bolts of the new cpu's...and how they are implemented into their respective systems...then try here...
http://arstechnica.com/articles/paedia/cpu/xbox360-1.ars
and here
http://arstechnica.com/articles/paedia/cpu/xbox360-2.ars
for the xbox,
here
http://arstechnica.com/articles/paedia/cpu/cell-1.ars
and here
http://arstechnica.com/articles/paedia/cpu/cell-2.ars
for the ps3.
as to whether they will own our pc's?can you stick a 2 TB raid array into an xbox?
can your ps3 be used as an efficient file server or firewall when you get the ps4?
consoles are powerfull when they come out,but there are so many exciting technologies just around the corner,that
in 2 years time the question itself will be a joke.
finally,if the xenon cpu really was 3 full ppc970 cores,like a 'dual core'pentium 4 is 2 full p4 cores,then i would sell my mother to own it.and my balls.it would be very,very powerfull,and running at 3.2 GHz it would spank a p4 or athlon64 by a large margin.and apple would have stayed with ibm,cause the next mac would have 6 cores,2x3core cpus...and nobody's that stoopid.
this is all IMHO btw...:)

[tantone]

What makes this whole thing pointless is that, in the not-too-distant future, the game console, the PC, and your media consoles (DVD, VHS, etc.) will all be the same unit.

Look at the trend. While MS is trying to push things along a bit with Media Center Edition, it's going that way naturally. The consoles are capable DVD players, MP3-CD players, etc., and that list keeps growing with each generation.

They're getting closer and closer in design and function.

[Strawbs]

Originally posted by Shoreguy
In actuality, It has nothing to do with Console vs. PC. It has to do with international business. Let me elaborate...

General_001 at the pentagon says, "Hey, can we get better resolution and faster rendering on the sattelite images of Target_02222? I can't quite make out the mole on Pornstar_6789's left ankle."

Colonel_002 says, "Let me see what I can do..."

Colonel_002 calls the appropriate agencies, making up some story about Weapons of Mass Destruction in Iraq.

Agency_A through Agency_XXX spend 12 months trying to enhance the images, without consulting each other, only to realize their technology is outdates.

Agency_A through Agency_XXX contact the Dean of Astrophysics at MIT (Massachusetts Institute of Technology) to offer $10 Mil (US) in grant money to enhance resolution and rendering of their satellite images....Grant funded by Black Budget Fund_235999999.

DoA_MIT, while at conference of scolastic wonders mentions his latest project to the Dean of Business at Harvard University.

DoA_HBS ponders the economic impact and feasability this may have, and sets up a conference call between himself, DoA_MIT and the Dean of Engineering at Carnegie Melon University.

DoA_MIT, DoA_HBS and DoE_CMU all agree to set up a project headed up by their top undergrads.

Top Undergrad_MIT_SoA, Top Undergrad_HBS and Top Undergrad_CMU all decide that it's too cold in the North East US, so they make up a story that they need to set up a lab in Cupertino, California for a month to work out the equations and skematics.

While sitting in the lobby of the Overpriced_Luxury_Hotel_0009 discussing which California babe looks best in the past 10 minutes, their conversation of the project is overheard by USC_Marketing_Flunkee_888888881. USC_Flunkee is now a local manager of Cheetah's_9988212. USC_Flunkee states that he can get TU_001, TU_002 and TU_003 dates with real California babes that very night.

After 5 hours of deviation from the moral code, and many adult beverages, TU_001-003 spill their entire project to USC_Flunkee.

TU_001-003 never see USC_Flunkee again, so they wrap up their project, head back, submit their project to the appropriate deans, who in turn present the new funtionality back to Colonel_002 who shows General_001 that the mole is actually a butterfly tattoo. General_001 reports to the congress that it was all a mistake and there really were no WOMD in Iraq, and goes back to his latest satellite images.

USC_Flunkee meanwhile, contacts CAL_BERKLEY_BUDDY_001 at 4:18pm two days later. CBB_001 picks up the phone and says, "you've got 2 minutes....I'm loading up the device...". USCF decides this is best for a weekend roadtrip and tells CBB_001 he'll be up there the next afternoon.

USCF and CBB spend all weekend ....well, they did spend about 20 minutes talking about the TU project between their investigations of Humboldt export products. CBB_001 has just accepted an offer from Game_Designer_2323 and will begin in 3 weeks.

After 2 years on the job as a graphic designer (using a MAC), CBB_001 sees a PostIT on Hottie_Exective_Assistant_002's desk about posting an ad on Dice.Com for "Assistant_Marketing_Scum_3529". CBB_001 works his magic and 4 days later is hosting USC_Flunkee at his Overpriced_Studio_Apartment, while USC_F interviews at Game_Designer_2323.

USC_F successfully lies through his teeth about his accomplishments and gets the minimum wage job. CBB agrees to let USC_F move in and share the studio until USC_F gets settled. They spend the next 6 months in the cramped studio, overzealously investigating Humboldt, Jamaican, and Thai export products. Occasionally, they reference Hawaiian export for quality clarification.

One day, BOSSMAN_023 has lunch with ATARI_EXEC_099. ATARI_EXEC states that his profits are a bit off, and he needs to create a new platform and game genre to revitalize his stranglehold on the market. BOSSMAN states that he can get the game designed, but he can't guarantee exclusivity unless ATARI pays BOSSMAN $10M (US). ATARI tells BOSSMAN to begin the project on the verbal agreement, and he'll get approval.

BOSSMAN sets up a meeting with the managers of CBB and USC_F, leaving IT and MIS out of the loop as usual. CBB and USC_F are tasked with the project, and after 10 months, CBB can't get anything working correctly. Pressured by his boss, USC_F tells CBB that he has to put something out to press, or he's being kicked to the curb. CBB tells USC_F that he MIGHT have a beta version ready in 6 months. USC_F releases a press release stating ProductX is coming soon, and the full demo will be available for download next week.
Enraged, CBB cuts ties with USC_F and spills the beans to IT and MIS that his problems are the hardware technology. IT and MIS agree to save the day, and contact their Lan_Party_Buddies at NVidia and ATI. Both companies begin development on CHIPSET_105.99X.

ATARI, releases a press release stating PLATFORM_4 will be available soon.
NVidia and ATI release press releases, using screenshots from LAST_GEN_PRODUCT_Z, stating their new chipsets will be released shortly.

CBB finks on USC_F and gets him fired. Luckily, USC_F is dating the ACCOUNTING_INTERN_0654 for GAMING_DISTRIBUTOR_001 and quickly has VP_MARKETING title at GD_001. Bent on revenge, VP_M, GD_001 offers GAME_DESIGNER undercuts the bid to release the nexgen game, but puts in extremely fine print, "release platform will be determined by rock-paper-scissors".

USC_F then goes on a drinking binge and decides to release NexGenGame_099991 to 3rd_Party_Platform. NexGenGame_099991 bombs because CBB_001 began dating HOTTIE_EXECUTIVE_ASSISTANT_002 and leaves half the game with unrecoverable bugs and only 5!!!! Easter Eggs.


See....the graphics were designed on a MAC! ...had nothing to do with console vs. pc.

...there goes my creativity for the next 12 months. Admit it - you copy\pasted all of that! didn't you? :p

[omendata]

In laundry bills!

You should be on stage
I havent seen such attack in defence since Mireland or JM

Oops just read that last few posts again!
Messed ma pontaloons again!

Thats £40 now!
>;o)#

[pootietang]

Originally posted by RockNRoll
I heard from a friend the next gen consoles will have technology better than PC's... Personally I don't believe it is true simply because:

The next wave of GFX cards are coming.
PPU's are coming.
Dual core CPU's are coming.
Etc. etc. etc.

I think it's just hype to sell more consoles cuz nobody wants one. Everyone wants PC's and I really think the console industry is losing it.

next gen consoles from the specs/sources say it will be faster and have some amazing quality gaming/graphics.

but the pc will eventually breeze past the graphics/power in long run since consoles aren't upgradable cpu/gfx card etc.

i personally enjoy things on the consoles better for sports games & on pc fps + strategy + rpg + flight games.
i'll get a ps3 or xbox but after 2years when the price drops,
& see what system has the best mods/hack out :t
so im not going to be the 1st one that's gotta have it for a higher $.

[RamonGTP]

Originally posted by omendata
In laundry bills!

You should be on stage
I havent seen such attack in defence since Mireland or JM

Oops just read that last few posts again!
Messed ma pontaloons again!

Thats £40 now!
>;o)#

I'm no JM or Mireland, but i'm glad I can keep you entertained nonetheless. :t

[omendata]

I take cheque or cash

No credit cards

Sorry

Bill now stands at £45
;)

[LionSword]

I bought my console (xbox) august last year. After a couple of mods, I think I have a far much better "gaming machine" than any computer will be. Reason? I don´t have to check for updates - neither graphics nor the various games - It´s far easier to use than my comp (powerful enough to play most games).

And Its weight makes It far easier to bring along whenever I want to have fun with my friends. I might tell, that "we" all have quite enough powerful comps as well. And we mix between comp and console.

There are - as I see It - 2 advantages gaming with comp´s.
1 - The Image IS better on a CRT-tube than on a TV-screen.
2 - Connected to a Network, one has still ones own tube to watch on, without disturbances such as multiple oppnents on the same screen.

If I play at home, I prefer to play on my console. When I meet my friends we alter between comp and console.

[GrefMofovich]

... yes...