Unable to defragment a WD Caviar 35100 HD

[Harijs]

I am unable to defragment my hard drive - it defragments very slow, under Norton Speed Disk after 12 hours of defragmentation defrag is 35% completed (I can't leave the system defragmenting longer than that - somebody always wants to use it during daytime, I can only defrag in nights), and under Microsoft Disk Defragmenter only one block (that symbolizes a cluster) is moved at a time, sometimes two blocks, when earlier while defragmenting my old Seagate drives it moved at least eight to ten; MS Disk Defragmenter also gets to only 17% overnight.

I already tried:
Ran the file wddiags.exe from Western Digital's web site - displayed no errors
Shut down everything except Explorer and Rundll with Ctrl+Alt+Del in Windows 98
Set the swap file to fixed size instead of variable size
Moved the swap file to another partition (which I have deleted now - the HD is unpartitioned now)
Deleted everything in the Windows/Applog folder (in Win98)
Checked that antivirus and power management are disabled in the BIOS (though I may have missed something there)
Tried freeing up more disk space (up to 350 Mb)
Emptied Recycle bin, the Windows/Temp folder and deleted Temporary Internet Files

The HD is FAT32. The system has 64 Mb of RAM. The hard drive has 200 to 300 Mb free at all times.

[SoopaStar]

The only thing I can think of doing is letting it run. Obviously you have alot of files on there if you have 5 gigs, with only 300 megs. Defragmenting the drive takes alot out of the system. also, is this the first time you have defragged the drive since you have installed it and put on over 4 gigs of informtion? What I would reccoemnd:
everynight, run the norton speed disk. just let it run for as long as you can everytime you can. it will eventually defrag. If you have some software you can uninstall and re-install after the defrag so you can free up space, do that too.

SS

[Dominus]

Try booting to safe mode or DOS prompt & doing the same thing. (Press F8 at Startup for the boot option menu)

The most likely thing is that you have some program writing to the drive while Defrag is running (CTRL+ALT+DEL doesn't show all running tasks), so either safe mode of DOS prompt will fix your right up.

Perhaps you should partitoion your drive to speed up defrags in the future. Just an idea.

[fishboy]

You may want to try uninstalling all non vital apps such as games and other programs that can be easily installed again (save those saved game files though) Creating a new partition is not a bad idea eithier. You can install apps to one partion and delete it from the original and then defrag.

[philipg]

Speed Disk should only take about 2-3 hours as long as you have at least 500Megs of free space. As far as removing games and such to make more room I honestly won't do that since once you finally get it defraged you will be back in the same boat you were in before.

My recommendation:

1.) go into the preferences for speeddisk and set it up to run from one particular time to another ( at night like you are doing know.
2.) shut off your screensavers - slows it down big time.
3.) only have APM engaged if it is at all, for the monitor.
4.) shut down all unnecesary programs before its time for speeddisk to activate.


............. or ...........


This is a longer process but it does work.

1.) Unistall Norton's - this process will not work properly if its installed.
2.) Back-up the whole drive - DON'T USE A BACKUP PRORAM THAT SNAP SHOTS THE HD, USE ONE THAT PHYSICALLY COPIES EACH PROGRAM ONE AT A TIME.
3.) format the whole thing
4.) reinstall windows minimum install (install back-up too if this is the one you used)
5.) restore the Hard Drive file presto the drive is defragged.
6.) reinstall and confur Norton's and run speeddisk immediately afterward.
step 6 is where speeddisk will integrate Norton into the Drive and defrag it a little extra, but should only take no more than 3 hours for it to run.

If your not comfortable with the second recommendation DON'T TRY IT!!

[This message has been edited by philipg (edited 08-03-99).]

[fishboy]

philipg,
Why would you say he will be back in the first place after reinstalling the apps? With less data on the drive, the less files there are to fragment. After the drive is defraged, reinstalling the games and such should not cause that much fragmentation and doing a defrag from this time on should not take all night. Maby he could try a quick defrag rather then a full one and then run a full one after the quick.

[philipg]

The only reason I mentioned about don't unistall then reinstall games and apps.

I had the same problem as he is having now.

I realized after a clean install running speeddisk after every 100-200 megs placed on the drive of a 6.4 GB, made my life alot easier and Norton SystemWorks was able to find any program glitches and fix them before they became major problems.

getting back to this thread:

Let's say he unistalles about 1GB of apps and games then runs Speed disk it taks him 2.5 hrs to complete. He reinstalles this apps and games and he's back to the limited HD space and now speeddisk has to reintegrate all 1 GB into a nice tightly organized drive. I honestly don't think its worth the headache.

[fishboy]

OK. lets see what Harijs comes up with. I honestly have never had a drive take that long to defrag. 1 hour has been tops for me

[Nathan]

If you have to, run defrag on the weekend. If you don't, you are going to have a crash. Sometimes people want something, but can't get it all the time. You have to allow for maintenance. If you have to, don't let the others use it.

After all, what happens if it crashes? They can't use it then either can they?

[Harijs]

Just tried another defragmentation from 11 PM till 11 AM - it got to 22% (Windows 98 Safe Mode). So, basically, what I will do is delete useless files during daytime and defrag every night. I have already uninstalled all the games that I can reinstall and left only the ones for whom e.g. the installation CD is broken - due to HD space - now games are only 500 Mb - 10% from the HD. About uninstalling the programs, I will try it before my next defrag, it should free up some space.
I have heard that FAT32 is slow to defrag, maybe I could install Windows 2000, convert to NTFS, defrag, and then convert back to FAT32 (because I need Windows 98)?
I have no backup devices, so I will not be able to use philipg's second reccomendation. Also, my family knows how to close the defrag program and restart Windows to get to their games or word processing, so even while I will go away for a couple of days soon, the defragmenter will probably be stopped soon after I leave.

[philipg]

Along with Nathan says:

Setup a screen saver password that only you know and that will help let speeddisk finish what was started as long as someone doesn't get smart by shutting the pc off and then back on during the screensaver.

If this can work for you use the 'blank screen' screensaver.

[DUSTYRUN]

try going into window's defrag and turning off rearrange program files to start faster.
this should speed-up the process. I'm taking it that you are running win98.

[Nathan]

I'm not trying to be disrespectful here, but you mean to tell us that they don't respect what you say enough to just let the machine do it's thing so they can continue to use it after it's done? If you want to go a different route, we can password that thing so they can't use it until it's done defraging. We need more info about what you have exactly as to the brand of computer and the motherboard type. We can make it so the screen saver is password protected and it won't boot up unless you enter a password at CMOS (provided it's new enough. Of course we need more info about your setup.)

There is more than one way to skin a cat.

[Harijs]

Yes, a blank screen password protected screensaver will do just fine, I will use this method next time I will be away from my PC for a couple of days. However, a $30 upgrade to a 6.4 Gb Quantum Fireball EX is starting to look better and better - if I will copy all of my information to the empty drive, if I am not mistaken, it will not be fragmented, also, the person that owns this drive currently says it defragments just fine.

BTW, I have turned "rearrange program files" off some six or seven defragmentation attempts before.

[Mike H.]

Look in the bios to see if it is set correctly. Somtimes kids get a little curious and might have changed things. I know a guy that had to reistall windows because his kid change the setting for the hard drive and it corrupted a bunch of files.
If it is not moving more than one block at a time there is something wrong. Try doing a "defragment files only" first and then "full defragment"

Mike H.

Watercooled AMD K6-3 450 @ 500 (100*5) Epox EP-MVP3G Rev. 1.0 Bios 7-16-99 128 Meg PC100 Matrox Marvel G-200 TV 16MB 5.15 Drivers SB Live! Full Retail Western Digital Caviar AC313000RTL

[Perce]

This may help, did you convert your boot partition to FAT32 from FAT 16 after you installed Norton's? I have had this problem numerous times if Norton's was installed prior to the FAT32 conversion, SpeeDisk then takes forever http://www.sysopt.com/forum/frown.gif It took me 4 hrs once to defrag a 10Gb HDD!!!

[beller6]

I am agreement with Philip.
I used to use Norton, but it isn't 100% compatable with 98. Try uninstalling Norton, and try using 98'd defrag. I have 2 caviar's with no problem. I am about to get a 3rd one for my new unbuilt system. Defrag didn't take that long for both my drives. Disable all screen savers.

[BBA]

Whats going on here?

If DEFRAG won't finish in less than 2 hours, you have a file error in the FAT!

You must run SCANDISK in DOS mode from a FLOPPY disk to correct it, and when it tells you the file name in it's report, delete that file.

I had the sme problem once, you are not crazy, defrag is a hour or two ordeal, not a weekend long one.

BBA

[Harijs]

I tried it, Scandisk displayed no errors. However, a FAT error might just be the problem - some time ago Norton Disk Doctor repeatedly announced that the two copies of FAT differ one from the other, however, when I upgraded from NU2 to NU3, this error announcement went away.
Yes, I converted the drive from FAT16 to FAT32 after I installed NU, however, that was my previous hard drive, this one already came formatted as FAT32, but I copied all the contents of the previous drive to the new one. If I buy a new, bigger drive and copy everything that's on this one to it will it also copy the old FAT with it's errors or will it create a new FAT?

[toms111]

Try this, it worked for me.

1. Shut down all other applications including other Norton Products like system monitor.

2. Disable all screen savers.

3. Disable all power saving features like monitor shut down and hard drive shut down.

4. Start Norton speed disk.

I don't think that problems with the FAT are causing your problem. If Speed disk detects such a problem, it will prompt you to runn disk doctor.

[Nathan]

How did you copy the files over? Does that include the system files, etc or just documents?

[Underclocked]

Likely be a non-cure, but have you tried just reinstalling 98? I know you've a shortage of room, but make sure to get rid of all the .bak and .old files first.
How long did running the WDDiag take? I had one 4.3WD that took about 11 hours just to run the WDDiag (finally reported bad sectors). And, I suppose you've done a full surface scan in Windows?

[Harijs]

I just upgraded my HD to a Quantum Fireball CR 8.4 - a $50 upgrade ($48 for the difference between drives and $2 the fee of the technician for two hours of work), and during the file copy process the technician who copied the files couldn't copy a couple of them - an announcement appeared that there was a file system error. Scandisk/NDD didn't show any errors. So maybe it was a FAT error after all. Hopefully there will be no defragmentation problems with this drive. Thanks everyone for the help.

(Wddiag took about 10 minutes, and no, I haven't done a full surface scan - if I would not have sold the disk I would try this recommendation. Yes, I copied all the system files, I didn't even reinstall Windows, though I know it is highly recommended to do so).