Innocent after 20 years on death row

[tflon]

Great idea to help a cause right here on this board! Please read on!

Think for a minute about everything that you did from 1977-1997. Now,
erase it all. That’s 20 years gone – BOOM – just like that. I’m only
21, so that would be a LIFETIME.

I saw a play that really moved me called “The Exonerated”. In short,
the play tells the TRUE stories of people who spent years on death row
before being found innocent and set free.

The play ran for years, but unfortunately, isn’t running anymore. But I
just saw Court TV is doing a film-version of the same play with some
bigtime actors/actresses i.e. Danny Glover, Susan Sarandon, etc.. It
airs on Jan.27th @ 9PM, but I’d check their site to be sure if it’s the
same in your time zone or whatever. www.courttv.com

I’m hoping that I could collect more people’s opinions here so I can
print and mail them to my Congressman and even my Governor. Letters
from actually people are powerful! Here’s a link to another
documentary, which gave me the idea of how to get involved!
http://deadlinethemovie.com/get_involved/take_action.php

So if you have thoughts on the death penalty, please share them here.
Just imagine if it was you, or your friend, or family sitting innocent
on death row. FYI One of my favorite songs has the line, “If you’re not
going to make something better, than you’re just IN THE WAY!” Let’s
all make something better right now.

Thanks so much!!

[ukulele]

If a man get's convicted for life, what's the difference if he spends his time in a jail cell or a pine box? I'll tell you the difference. It's cheaper to keep him for like unless they hung him at sunset the day he is convicted. That is never going to happen so why waste more money trying to enforce a sentance that very rarely gets done anyway.

[werz]

about 90% of prisoners say they are innocent, so there must be a certain number who actually are. Bob Dylan thinks he knows one.

[ukulele]

Originally posted by werz
about 90% of prisoners say they are innocent, so there must be a certain number who actually are. Bob Dylan thinks he knows one.

Who are you going to trust, a convicted prisoner or 12 carefully screened jury members who voted unanimously that he was guilty? If the wrong man get's convicted in Russia, they call that tuf****ksy. I'll hoist a bottle of vodka and toast them on that.

[j.m@talk]

Originally posted by ukulele
I'll hoist a bottle of vodka and toast them on that.

I'd help but I'm still on the wagon ;)

[zybch]

Originally posted by ukulele
Who are you going to trust, a convicted prisoner or 12 carefully screened jury members who voted unanimously that he was guilty? If the wrong man get's convicted in Russia, they call that tuf****ksy. I'll hoist a bottle of vodka and toast them on that.

'Carefully screened'? You have to be kidding.
More like 'Too stupid to get out of jury duty and so they are pissed at the defendant'.
Thats not a group of people whos hands I'd willingly like to place my life into.

http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/article.php?scid=6&did=110

http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/article.php?scid=6&did=111#executed

[j.m@talk]

I've done Jury service............... So you should all count yourselves very very lucky :p

It was a very boring fraud case .......... Yawn :rolleyes:

[rraehal]

I am willing to believe that many people who are convicted of crimes may be innocent. The problem is that they could not prove they were not guilty and someone proved they were. Not all cases rae black and white.

I think the death penalty should be used in some cases. The problem is the appeals must all be used up first and by the time someone is executed it was not worth it. It would have been a lot easier to just keep them in prison for life. I agree with uke's point.

I have been called for Jury duty but always dismissed. We shall see if I ever get selected.

[zybch]

Which is worse?

Executing everyone on death row (as soon as there is a guilty verdict) on the basis that all the jurys got it right and all relevant evidence was presented.

-or-

Killing nobody on death row because up to 7% of those convicted have been done so wrongfully (this is the average right now).
Just stick them all in prison for life.


In essence, is the life of an innocent man worth more or less than the life of a guilty one?
The answer you give can tell people a great deal about you.

[j.m@talk]

Well I think we have the right idea, just locking them up........ We are quite established as a country & at some point or other we have tried most things.

[mireland]

Originally posted by j.m@talk
Well I think we have the right idea, just locking them up........ We are quite established as a country & at some point or other we have tried most things.

I've heard there is plenty of space on Mars that we could put these people..http://www.fancysplace.com/smileys/smiley_martien01.gif

[rraehal]

I didn't mean for it to sound like we should execute them right away. I was saying I think the death penalty takes too long and it is easier to keep them in prison. Maybe keeping them in prison is the better deal. I don't think I could put someone on death row. I would hate to think I caused an person's death - guilty or not.

[rraehal]

Originally posted by mireland
I've heard there is plenty of space on Mars that we could put these people..http://www.fancysplace.com/smileys/smiley_martien01.gif

LOL - Love that. Now if we could just get there and make it liveable....

[mireland]

Originally posted by rraehal
LOL - Love that. Now if we could just get there and make it liveable....

errr..why do we need to make it liveable? :D

[ukulele]

Originally posted by rraehal
I am willing to believe that many people who are convicted of crimes may be innocent. The problem is that they could not prove they were not guilty and someone proved they were. Not all cases rae black and white.

I think the death penalty should be used in some cases. The problem is the appeals must all be used up first and by the time someone is executed it was not worth it. It would have been a lot easier to just keep them in prison for life. I agree with uke's point.

I have been called for Jury duty but always dismissed. We shall see if I ever get selected.

You need to take a course in civics. You are just another uneducated American if you thing you have to prove your innocence in a court of law in this country.

[werz]

when your rich and can afford a 'llegal team' to defend you, your chances of being found guilty are much lower, and if its unavoidable, your penalty will be lower. It's about time a few crooked business men, who steal millions from their shareholders got the death penalty.

[zybch]

Originally posted by ukulele
You need to take a course in civics. You are just another uneducated American if you thing you have to prove your innocence in a court of law in this country.

Have you been smoking cat nip again?
Although the phrase innocent until proven guilty is bandied about with regularity, its about as far from fact as its possible to get in all western countries.

Right from the get go, the accused is assumed to have had commited the crime and has to prove that he/she didn't.

[j.m@talk]

Dat Jibberish :rolleyes:

[ukulele]

Yea, like OJ

[zybch]

Trial-By-Media is a different matter alltogether :)

You'd have a better change of aquittal if you did the old Trial By Ordeal (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trial_by_ordeal).

[dajogejr]

You guys ever hear of Ron White?

He's a comedian...from Texas...where they LOVE their death penalty.

His lines go something like this: (Don't quote me)

In my home state, they are trying to pass a law that says if you are convicted of 3 felonies, there is no long wait...you go straight to the front of the line, Jack.

While other states are trying to abolish the death penalty, my state is putting in an express lane...

I thought it was pretty funny...

Anyways....too many guilty go free, and not enough innocent are found innocent.

But, I'll take my freedom, or whatever you want to call it, versus what goes on elsewhere in the world...to those less fortunate.

someone always has it worse off than you....always.

[j.m@talk]

Originally posted by dajogejr
someone always has it worse off than you....always.

Even those Sunbathing in Sri Lanka & associated places just after Christmas ........ Umm I think not :t

[dajogejr]

I was going to say unless you're related to or JM's wifey/girlfriend...then, you have it worse...:)

:eek:

;)

[j.m@talk]

Troo :D

[ukulele]

Now we have a case in California where some complete moron tried to kill himself by parking his truck on a train track, failed at that unfortunately, and killed 11 innocent people, injured another 100 or more and wrecked not one but two trains. The penalty for such a heinous deed is lethal injection (apparently he is to good for public hanging) and now there is other morons, who should be put out of their misery too, calling into the talk shows and saying his life should be spared because he was emotionally upset at the time. Now we will spend millions of taxpayers dollars to listen to some lawyer who may well indeed spare his life so we can support his worthless **** for the rest of his natural life, while guys like Zybch whine and moan to the world how unfair our legal system is here. :rolleyes:

[j.m@talk]

Wadda Pisser :mad:

[zybch]

Originally posted by ukulele
Now we have a case in California where some complete moron tried to kill himself by parking his truck on a train track, failed at that unfortunately, and killed 11 innocent people, injured another 100 or more and wrecked not one but two trains. The penalty for such a heinous deed is lethal injection (apparently he is to good for public hanging) and now there is other morons, who should be put out of their misery too, calling into the talk shows and saying his life should be spared because he was emotionally upset at the time. Now we will spend millions of taxpayers dollars to listen to some lawyer who may well indeed spare his life so we can support his worthless **** for the rest of his natural life, while guys like Zybch whine and moan to the world how unfair our legal system is here. :rolleyes:

I read about that. Apparently he chickened out at the last moment and ran out of his car and off the tracks.
I don't know what should happen to that guy, but going to sleep and dying from a lethal injection seems far too quick and easy for this murderer.

Since when have I ever questioned the legal/punishment system in the US other than saying that you guys seem to be a bit too gung-ho about locking people up, and there are too many innocent people executed when evidence that can exonerate them can be found by school students but is missed by the legal system?
Thats something that everyone in your country should feel badly ashamed about regardless of their politics.

Here in Oz, it costs the state something like $150 per day to keep someone in prison (almost $55,000 a year). The average person on welfare receives only $10,500. The numbers in the US would show a similar ratio no doubt, that just doesn't make any sense whatever way you look at it.

[ukulele]

Since when have I ever questioned the legal/punishment system in the US

Since when have you not?

[rraehal]

Originally posted by ukulele
Now we have a case in California where some complete moron tried to kill himself by parking his truck on a train track, failed at that unfortunately, and killed 11 innocent people, injured another 100 or more and wrecked not one but two trains.

I read about that too. I agree he is a complete moron.


Back to the original topic a little....

I am not uneducated. They say in school that it works one way but I have been in the system. I was accused of things that I never did. I had to prove it - no one had to prove me guilty.

One specific example is that I stole some candy from my 6th grade school store. When I was in 11th grade they accused me of stealing from the school store. The charged me with breaking and entering and some theft charge. I had to go to court and prove I was not guilty. They had all the circumstantial evidence to prove it was me. (Did it before, attended the school, other charges in other areas - it made me a criminal in the schools eyes)

Five years and I hadn't taken anything. I was charged (not arrested thankfully), suspended from school, and had to go to court. The not guilty verdict got me back in school. If I had been innocent until proven guilty why did they charge me and suspend me with only circumstantial evidence and no tangible proof.

Our court system isn't always fair.

[ukulele]

You can be accused of any crime and incarcerated but when you go to court to be tried you don't have to say anything, in fact most cases it's not a good idea to, but what happens only too often an innocent person can't afford the legal representation to present reasonable doubt ( which BTW only applies in a criminal matter, not a civil matter) and the prosecution ( not the judge) will plea bargain to avoid a trial they may not win or loose to appeal later. You, however, as a citizen can still demand that the trial be carried out in accordance with law. Now that DNA evidence is much more available, less and less false convictions are happening in the major crimes. It is also fair to say that a lot more convictions get thrown out due to lack of evidence then false convictions. Still it happens, but this is not unique to the American legal system and if you ever ventured to travel and learn about the legal system is most other countries you would not be complaining now. I can always tell the ones who traveled the least by their views on legal matters. America does have a lot to grumble about but legal rights is not one of them.

[Happy Joe]

One of the things that our northern neighbors (Canadians) do right (I hear) is to black out news coverage until trials are over (it helps assure a fair trial and prevents media trials). I agree with this The legal system should take precidence over the media circus.
Texas has the right idea with the death row express lane. It won't deterr but it will get rid of 'em.
Enjoy!

[rraehal]

I agree there are some things to complain about but not a lot. I love it where I am. I simply don't think the legal system is as effective as it could be. My only expereince in any legal matters was when I was in 11th grade and some employement law. Not much else.

You'r right that I haven't traveled much. I have only been to Canada once and Mexico once. Can't make a judgement about any country outside the US.

I still think you are wrong to call me uneducated because I do not know the legal system. I have 1 college degree (in computer science) and will have a second in 6 months (business). Now I should just learn to type. :)

[ukulele]

Originally posted by rraehal
I agree there are some things to complain about but not a lot. I love it where I am. I simply don't think the legal system is as effective as it could be. My only expereince in any legal matters was when I was in 11th grade and some employement law. Not much else.

You'r right that I haven't traveled much. I have only been to Canada once and Mexico once. Can't make a judgement about any country outside the US.

I still think you are wrong to call me uneducated because I do not know the legal system. I have 1 college degree (in computer science) and will have a second in 6 months (business). Now I should just learn to type. :)

I understand that. After all, we do have a right to voice our opinion in America and not go to jail for being wrong. I never said you were uneducated. I said you need to take a civics class, but at the same time I did not assume you were being sarcastic. A lot of educated people think we are guilty until proven innocent.

[werz]

the law and justice have nothing to do with each other.

[zybch]

Thats right. Justice is something you usually have to get for yourself because the law refuses to.