Someone either talk me INTO or OUTOF X800pro

[Beeblequix]

Fry's Outpost has the ATI X800 Pro 256 Meg AGP card for a mere $329. That's about $40 cheaper than anywhere else.

If I got it I'd be relocating my 9800pro to my 3000+ cheap but pretty good system which currently sports a G4ti4600. This elcheapo system has a fine time running anything dx8 and before, but later games like Halo & Far Cry it suffers a bit. That's really not too big a deal unless I invite someone to use that system for some multiplayer gaming.

$329 is getting really close to a great bang/buck card. Okay, not really, but better than $400+. Input anyone?

[Yoshi]

Good price for a very good card, but I would prefer a 6800GT over the X800Pro. But the GT is around $380, if you can put in the extra $50 go for it, if not the X800 Pro is very good solid card, especially for HL2;)

[widget2003]

yeah im going to go the GeForce 6800GT before i go for the X800Pro but only because it overclocks to Ultra level quite easily. the X800Pro is also a very good card and probably worth getting at that price, but to be totally honest any of the cards in the X800 and 6800 class's will be fine for quite a while yet i suspect and the X800 will last you longer then the Ti4600 did before upgrading to 9800pro

[Beeblequix]

can anyone make some educated statements regarding the image quality of the X800pro and 6800/GT/Ultra?

As far as overclocking I'm only in it for sport. For routine stuff (99.999999% of the time) I run tweaked STOCK. So I'm really not interested in overclocking/soft modding, etc.

My G4ti4600 looks okay. But the Radeon totally kicks A for image quality. That's one reason I lean toward ATI anymore. Unless the new Nvidia line is on equal playing field for a change.

[porsch1909]

the 6 series does have the sm 3.0 thing but that is pretty pointless just now. and i read that the image quality of the X800 series is superior to 6800s in a magazine. you cant go wrong with either card to be honest. but with the X800 pro VIVO you can flash the BIOS to activate the 4 pipeline and youve got an X800 XT!!! so that is an advantage. is it a VIVO that price or just a bog standard one?


i have an X800 pro and its a wonderfull card. it even OC well. i can get 550/1100 out of it but im like you and its just for sport, i dont actally runs games at those speed i only run benchmarks.

[ShadeZeRO]

If you want high quality frames got with ATI
if you want More Raw power then quality go with Nvidia

ATI has had a very nice Anti Aliasing system for a long time now and they just continue to improve.

Nvidia has also stepped up in there game trying to fix whatever went wrong in the FX series.

[Beeblequix]

http://shop3.outpost.com/product/4042522

I guess it's a "bog standard" (that's funny) non VIVO.

It's gonna have to be ATI. I'm completely enamored with my 9800pro (compared to 4 flavors of Geforce).

The other question, which honestly seems like 6 of one and half dozen of the other, is the AGP vs PCIe question. Presently I have two gaming systems. One sports my 2.8northie + MSI 865PE Neo2 plat.+ Radeon9800pro + 80GB IDE + 512M pc3700 + NEC Superbright CRT 19". It works famously. Then I have the 3000+ AXP + cheap mATX Soyo KM400 based mobo + 1GB PC 3200 + 40GB IDE + 4 year old ADI 17" CRT. I can't really see myself jumping on the PCIe thing any time soon, not until I need a whole system upgrade which is likely 2 years down the road at the earliest. These two work nicely. I also hear AMD will still offer AGP oriented boards for the hammers, so even if I want to upgrade I still may pass my standard stuff along to a new AMD rig.

Okay. Ill get it. thx gents.

[Someone Stupid]

My 9800 now will no longer play any 3d titles without artifacting at STOCK watercooled (have checked contact and even reseated the block). Will eventually artifact up if I leave the computer on just in windows after a few hours - the chip was blistering hot from the heat coming around the backside. I didn't feel it that hot when it was stock air cooled. Now running with my bloody Ti at the moment.

Just ordered a Powercolor VIVO X800 today after 3 days of troubleshooting - though I wanted to sit out this generation, my card dying made it impossible. Thanks Zalman. Probably won't bother flashing it for awhile as the rest of the system would then be a bottleneck and with prices starting to drop as AMD and Intel finally are starting to crank out something faster again finally I'm going to wait off on a new motherboard/cpu for awhile as I can push my barton a bit more if needed, though the temps won't be pretty.

[porsch1909]

Originally posted by Beeblequix
http://shop3.outpost.com/product/4042522

I guess it's a "bog standard" (that's funny) non VIVO.

It's gonna have to be ATI. I'm completely enamored with my 9800pro (compared to 4 flavors of Geforce).

The other question, which honestly seems like 6 of one and half dozen of the other, is the AGP vs PCIe question. Presently I have two gaming systems. One sports my 2.8northie + MSI 865PE Neo2 plat.+ Radeon9800pro + 80GB IDE + 512M pc3700 + NEC Superbright CRT 19". It works famously. Then I have the 3000+ AXP + cheap mATX Soyo KM400 based mobo + 1GB PC 3200 + 40GB IDE + 4 year old ADI 17" CRT. I can't really see myself jumping on the PCIe thing any time soon, not until I need a whole system upgrade which is likely 2 years down the road at the earliest. These two work nicely. I also hear AMD will still offer AGP oriented boards for the hammers, so even if I want to upgrade I still may pass my standard stuff along to a new AMD rig.

Okay. Ill get it. thx gents.


at present there isnt actually any performance increase in getting PCI- E. in fact some benches show that AGP ahead of PCI- E currently. but in the future PCI-E has a lot more potential whereas AGP has used most of its bandwidth. but for now i would stick with AGP like u said.

[Strawbs]

For Gods Sake think of the Children! Use the money to buy them a bigger Christmas present, and If you don't have Kids - send the money to me - I'll give it a good home.

:t

[The Lodge]

Originally posted by Beeblequix
My G4ti4600 looks okay. But the Radeon totally kicks A for image quality. That's one reason I lean toward ATI anymore. Unless the new Nvidia line is on equal playing field for a change. A quick question. How can you even compare a Ti4600 to a 9800pro?

[porsch1909]

well i suppose he just did. lol

[Beeblequix]

well, The Lodge, here's basicly how:

DX9 titles are a walk in the park for the Radeon. So I have to find a semi-equal footing.

I use a DX8 game for comparison. Morrowind is a great example of a game I still love to play. Even with all details maxxed out on the ti4600 the 9800pro simply looks better. The anisotropic filtering of the mipmap levels, the antialiasing (the geforce takes a far bigger hit than the radeon), the texture quality, everything. Maybe you're asking a rhetorical question. I just want bigger better faster
NOW NOW NOW NOW NOW!!!! lol. After having four nvidia cards (geforce sdr, geforce 3ti200, geforce 4ti4200, geforce 4ti4600) and then finding ATI with a consistent two or so years of stable drivers was a noticable difference.

[The Lodge]

DX9 titles are a walk in the park for the Radeon. Well yeah, the 9800pro is a DX9 card, the Ti is a 8.1. I use a DX8 game for comparison. Morrowind is a great example of a game I still love to play. Even with all details maxxed out on the ti4600 the 9800pro simply looks better. The anisotropic filtering of the mipmap levels, the antialiasing (the geforce takes a far bigger hit than the radeon), the texture quality, everything. Maybe you're asking a rhetorical question. I just want bigger better faster That’s like me saying the following.

I use DX7 games for comparison. Even with all the details maxed out on the 7500, the Ti4600 simply looks better. The anisotropic filtering of the mipmap levels, the antialiasing (the radeon takes a far bigger hit than the Ti), the texture quality, everything.

Does that make any sense to you? I didn’t think so. All I’m trying to say is use your head and don’t become a fan boy. Remember that after tax that card only ends up being about $35 cheaper than a 6800GT. From the benches I’ve seen the 6800GT is faster than the X800pro. Yes maybe ATI has better aa and af when it’s cranked up all the way, but how long are you going to be able to do that for? I believe I’ve even seen Jakk (among other people) mention that you can’t notice the difference between the cards unless you take screens and put them side by side Even then it’s very slight.

Not trying to start an ati vs. nvidia war or anything. I’m just trying to help you make a knowledgeable decision.
:t

[Beeblequix]

I had a whole respone typed, then decided to just end discussion.

I like ATI's eye candy. And I've already pushed the limits of what's a sensable purchase $338 is absolutely the ceiling. $377 is too close to $400, and that's unreasonable. It's always easy to spend other people's money.

I'm not going to spend any more time arguing with you.

[CrazyCrusher]

Originally posted by Beeblequix
I had a whole respone typed, then decided to just end discussion.

It's always easy to spend other people's money.

I'm not going to spend any more time arguing with you.

You asked for opinions and you got it, what else did you expect, asking talk me in or out of??? 6800GTsimple as that ye its more money 50Bucks more but a better card. thats my opinion if I was to wait a week to get 50 more I would.

[Beeblequix]

part of the arguement was between the X800pro and 6800's. It was then stated that there's little perceivable difference in image quality (I'd still debate that, tho there may be little difference). The GT is faster than the X800, sure. THE X800 XT 'LUDICROUS EDITION' is faster than the GT. So what. I've already spent half a house payment on a video card. It's also not a question of saving up for another $50. I have another $50. But I'm not willing to part with it for a video card.

[Magua]

The x800pro will be a pretty substantial upgrade to the 9800pro. Im using a 9800pro myself, and trying to wait out another round before I upgrade, but you won't regret getting the x800.

[The Lodge]

I'm not going to spend any more time arguing with you. Quick question. May I argue with you? :rolleyes: You asked for opinions and you got it, what else did you expect, asking talk me in or out of??? 6800GTsimple as that ye its more money 50Bucks more but a better card. thats my opinion if I was to wait a week to get 50 more I would. CC speaks the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth. I've already spent half a house payment on a video card. Well, I’m very proud of ya. It's also not a question of saving up for another $50. I have another $50. But I'm not willing to part with it for a video card. Another question. Why did you start this thread then? Don’t. :t

[Someone Stupid]

Will a mod please close this thread, the comments are getting juvenile.

[The Lodge]

It’s just that I don’t appreciate someone asking for advice\opinions then having beef when they get a response. If you read my second post on the first page you’ll see that I wasn’t trying to argue anything. I was voicing my opinion and trying to help him make an educated decision. I guess some people don’t want help when they ask for it. Sorry if I over reacted.

[Someone Stupid]

Thanks for the level headed reply as I've been guilty at times I'll admit. I think Beeb just took one comment in your second post the wrong way as when I first read it I was wondering if you were baiting or not. Hence why he chose to try and end things. I chose to think you weren't baiting (but then again, it wasn't directed at me, so it was easier for me to read it clearer, and even then, I did have to reread one part which may speak of my ignorance of the language :) ). Just the last few post went downhill fast and I respect everyone who has posted in this thread and didn't want to see them post things that were said in the heat of the moment or not thought out right for the situation.

I post here because I like the posters and their willingness to help without hurling insults or fanboyism of other sites. Somewhere in this thread something was misinterpreted or a point was pushed too hard and off things went. I really don't think anyone here was trying to flame the other side as I know everyone who posted in this thread is better than that - just it was getting ugly and I wanted it to stop before I start thinking bad of people whom I respected before and still do respect. :t

[Strawbs]

My worst case scenario came true when my GF3 was eclipsed 6 months after purchase by the GF3 TI range, A few months later the GF4 range made a bad situation worse for me. I decided then that I would never again buy a card for it's brute force benchmarking capabilities.

So far I do not regret that decision - 18 months after buying my first ATi card, I'm still impressed with the display quality in all but the latest game engines. 2 Generations of ATi cards have been released since the purchase of my 9700Pro, and I still feel my card is as current today as the day I bought it (because I haven't bothered with 3Dmark05).

The same cannot be said for any nVidia card I've owned! Where are the FX5800\5900\5950 ranges that were built to demolish the 97\9800's? Are they still respected as much as the ATi cards? No! because they usually impress only until they lose the horsepower advantage, which in reality gives them maybe a 6 month lifespan! nVidia is always ready to tag a couple of extra letters onto a model name and free up 5 extra BHP.

People offering advice need to see past the latest benchmark! When they do, they might actually notice the real difference between the two major players, it's the same with just about any hardware purchase - Quality lasts longer.

I think bbq already knows that. :t

[The Lodge]

I’ve got to admit this place is great too. I had a computer when I was young, if you want to call it that (apple IIc) but remember nothing about it. My next computer wasn’t until I found a deal I couldn’t pass up in the end of 2001. I joined this forum a month after I built my first computer. My knowledge has increased ten fold in the year + I have been a member here compared to my first two years. The learning process is never ending, I think I learn something new everyday here. A good buddy of mine wonders how I know more about his computer than he does. Latest example: He was telling me about his doom3 problems, told him about the new drivers that were a hotfix (thanks to Jakk) and he asks “how do you know, you don’t even have an ati card”. Long story short, I think this is the best forum on the net. Sure there are some good specialty forums, but this is the best all round SystemOptimization :D forum. The members here are very knowledgeable and helpful, one of the main reasons I joined.

Strawbs you’re right, last generation ati totally owned. If I was to upgrade my video card 6 months ago it would have been ati all the way, no questions asked. Now, I would personally go with a 6800gt. Best bang for the buck, plus I oc. I’m not just referring to 3dmark, I’m going by recent games and word from fellow sysopt members. You’ve got to expect any card you buy to be eclipsed six months after you purchase it, especially if you’re like most and don’t buy a card right after it’s released.

Later all, The Lodge :t

[porsch1909]

i bought an x800 pro in june. then a few months later or weeks probably the 6800 GT came out. if i waited i wouldve gotten the 6800 GT. why? they both would give me outrageously high FPS in every game that will come out in the foreseeable future. well bragging rights. i am childish. i admit it. i would love to boast the best score in 3dmark 03/05 on this forum and for a few weeks i was number 2 ( behind yoshi, he had a better CPU!!) i was chuffed as anything. but now i doubt im in the top ten. then doom 3 came out and the benches on my baby where not as pretty as the Nvidia counterpart. it was depressing. but then i read that HL2 will be about 30 % better on the ATI card.


so if you see where im coming is, like we have all been saying you cant go wrong wih either card, Beeblequix. they are both superb. it just seemed very sureal comparing a Ti4600 to a 9800pro. with ure explanation we (well i) could see some of the sense in it but they are totally different cards. like the lodge said. and it was no reason to get a bit, lets say annoyed about.

i would agree this is the best forum ive seen on the net. i joined another and they are nowhere near as clever as you. plus my post count is about 10 as apposed to 750 so they treat me like an idiot. why did i join? well i joined because i was an intel fanboy and had a huge big argument/discussion with Strawb as a matter of fact, and trust me it was a lot more heated than this one. well i would buy an AMD now.


best advice in my opinion is dont be a fanboy, read reviews, ask people on the forum and choose the best item in your budget.

[MadPistol]

I've got pretty good proof of the 6800 GT's power. I can set Far Cry up to 1600 x 1200 w/ 8x Antialiasing and 16x Anistropic filtering, and it runs at a constant 30 fps!!!!! It's unbelievable. I can't set the settings any higher than this (bear in mind that I have all settings set to highest in the game) The image on the game is gorgeous as well. I'm glad I spent the money and got this card. :t

[porsch1909]

what would you get the the X800 pro. like 28 FPS. ooooooo. or maybe it will be higher like a whoping 32 FPS lol.

[PacNW CE]

Originally posted by MadPistol
I've got pretty good proof of the 6800 GT's power. I can set Far Cry up to 1600 x 1200 w/ 8x Antialiasing and 16x Anistropic filtering, and it runs at a constant 30 fps!!!!! It's unbelievable. I can't set the settings any higher than this (bear in mind that I have all settings set to highest in the game) The image on the game is gorgeous as well. I'm glad I spent the money and got this card. :t

A rule of thumb I use for perfomance: Last generations games get the 1600x1200 8xAA 16xAF treatment so as to see how pretty they are. Current games I max out at 1024x768, with little AA or AF, and hope for 45 FPS+.

Anything more than that is really a waste of my money. I got a 9800 pro right before the x800's hit the market. I don't regret getting it since it handled D3 like a charm and will do the same to HL2.

Why upgrade when the refresh for ATI is just around the corner(Nov) and the new lineup is due late 1st Quarter 2005?

[Beeblequix]

Why upgrade when the refresh for ATI is just around the corner(Nov) and the new lineup is due late 1st Quarter 2005?

this is the most compelling reason I've heard thus far.

Sorry gents. I guess I did read a bit too far into your posts. Today (not being in such a bad mood) I can see that y'all weren't trying to make me feel bad. My apologies.

a raving nutter

[Magua]

Thats exactly what I am doing. I have a 9800pro now, and I'm waiting to see what the next generation brings before I upgrade. The 9800pro still runs everything fine, and there is no need to buy a $400 card every 6 months.

The newest cards slaughter the 9800pro in benchmarks. But when it comes down to it, the 9800pro will run the same games as the big guys.

[Beeblequix]

It's here!

*beeblequix does a funny little jig*

Now the question: which computer deserves it more?

P4 2.8GHz northie
MSI 865PE Neo2-platinum
int. 5.1 Realtek audio
int. 10/100/1000
2x256 PC3700 @pc3200 cas2.5 (overclocks effortlessly to ~460FSB air cooled)
80GB WD800JB w/8Meg cache
Windows XP Home
LiteOn 52x32x52 CDRW
Aspire X-Dreamer II windowed case
350W power supply (came with case)
Radeon 9800pro

or

AthyXP 3000+
Soyo K7VME (cheap but otherwise stable)
int. 10/100
Creative Soundblaster 5.1 Platinum
Creative Inspire 5.1 speakers
1x512 PC3200 & 1xPC3500 @ PC2700 cas 2.5
40GB WD400BB
LiteOn 52x32x52x16 CDRW/DVD combo
Lian Li polished aluminum case w/window
Allied 400W ps
MSI Gefore 4 ti 4600

Originally I was leaning toward relocating the 9800pro to the AthyXP system. But now I'm thinking to just put the X800 in that system and maybe get a decent mobo for it that will at least allow me to run the 3000+ at a higher fsb. Not that it's at all necessary. This thing's pretty fast anyway. Any input? You have about 30 minutes until I just drop it in the latter rig. thx.

[The Lodge]

No harm, no foul right Beebs? :D :t

I say both. Put it in the p4 system now. Then put it in your amd rig when you get a better board for it.

[Strawbs]

Put it in The AMD rig, sell the GF4 to subsidise a new Mobo & have two top systems.

:cool:

[Someone Stupid]

How well does the northwood OC? I found a few situations with my card running as a Pro in that it still could use more CPU power to run at insane resolutions and as an XT-PE it is definantly bottlenecked by the CPU. The same places in FarCry that bottlenecked my 9800 when being pushed would bottleneck both the Pro and PE when pushed. So if you can get the northwood up in speed a bit more, it would be a definant in that system. I wouldn't bother with the AMD rig unless you can get it to 2.4 or above - though it doesn't hurt to try. :)

[The Lodge]

Is that a p4 C?

[porsch1909]

With the 3rd generation card like 'someone stupid' (i love that name!!) said there is really the problem with bottlenecking. and you will get a bigger bottleneck with the AMD rig than the P4. so i would go for the P4 rig.


strawbs how much money would he get for a GF4 lol.

[Strawbs]

If he put it on e-bay listing the specs, you can bet some mug will pay top dollar for it! He could get in excess of two thirds the cost of a new mobo IMO. ;)Is that a p4 CYes! P4 Northie = Northwood = C

:t

[porsch1909]

i think i will list my FX5200! i might be able to con somebody into buying.

it get an amazingly high score of 1500 3dmark03s!!

if i get £35 for an FX5200 then ive conned somebody lol. more likely if the person buying had a clue they would pay me to keep it :D

[Beeblequix]

Okay.

So I DID do both. Temporarily.

I removed and boxed up the good ol' Geforce4. I think I'll take it back to the retailer and trade it for a MSI K7N2ish board. I think I may only have to pay like $15 in that swap. Anyway, I dropped in the X800pro in the XP machine and ran some benches.

3367 3dmark 05.
9147 3dmark 03.

I also checked QuakeIII 1.32 for kicks & giggles. I was astonished that at lowest settings I was severely bottlenecked on the fsb. So this mobo needs replacement (hey, it was free alright :p ).

Took it out, dropped it in my P4 machine and relocated the 9800pro to elcheapo (f'ed up my 2k install in the process)(reinstalling right now).

The P4 got a bit better.
3698 3dmark 05.
http://service.futuremark.com/compare?3dm05=174076

10243 3dmark 03. That's NOT overclocked. It does oc to 3.2GHz and still remains the same temperatures.
http://service.futuremark.com/compare?2k3=3249924

Now I'm off to get elcheapo working again. It may be in vain if I get a new mobo this afternoon...

thx guys.