Akimbo the Newbie 486 Update: Where do I go from here?? Ed_S, anyone....Help!

[akimbo]

Thanks to all the great info I got from this board I am coming along on my first computer venture: First, Please go to page two of this forum, toward the bottom, and read "Newbie hard drive ????, will take a genius to answer these!" A little background first, then my questions are at the end:

Anyway, following ED_S advice:

1.) First things first. You must get floppy setup corrected before you can do anything.
* All set up, got a new cable, that was the prob.

2.) Drive IS a 1.44 not an old 720kb, right?
* It is indeed an old 720kb.

3.) Since you formatted from bios, was this just "format" or was it "low-level format"? if just format, then all there is to do is reinstall dos. Boot to disk 1 & follow the instructions.
If low-level format, it's a bit more. You'll need a boot disk which includes fdisk and format commands. Dos (5.0 or newer) disk one should work.
Start system w. boot disk.
Type "fdisk"
Choose "create dos partition or logical dos drive"
Choose "create primary dos partition"
Follow the prompts, using maximum allowable sizes. With that small drive, you've really no choice.
This prepares the drive for dos formatting.
Restart, again with boot disk
Type "Format C:" & just follow instructions.
Then reinstall dos.

** Since I don't own dos disks, I booted with a boot disk I made from my k6-2/333 .(format a: copy system files) Did all of the above and This is where I am at now. Computer still must boot from the floppy drive, but I can change between A: and C: , no problems. Now , my questions:

1.) HOW DO I GET THE COMPUTER TO BOOT FROM THE HARD DRIVE NOW? I FORGOT THE SYNTAX, IS IT XCOPY A: C: OR SOMETHING ABOUT FORMAT/MBR....??

2.) I DO NOT HAVE DOS DISKS, COULD I JUST COPY DOS DIRECTORY OFF OF ONE OF MY OTHER COMPUTERS??? COULD I JUST COPY THE MAJOR DOS COMMANDS, LIKE FORMAT, COPY, MEM, ETC. TO DRIVE C:????

3.) WHAT ABOUT THE AUTOEXEC.BAT AND CONFIG.SYS FILES? WHERE DO THEY FIT IN???
I GUESS, IN FACT THAT I AM INSTALLING AN OPERATING SYSTEM FROM SCRATCH, IT'S ALL NEW TO ME, BUT GREAT HELP FROM Y'ALL CAN WALK ME THROUGH THIS.

THAT'S ALL FOR NOW, WE'LL GO FROM HERE

MANY THANKS TO ALL

AKIMBOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

[Zonker]

Put that floppy back into the other computer with DOS on it and copy fdisk, format, edit and qbasic onto the floppy.

copy c:\dos\fdisk.* a:\
copy c:\dos\format.* a:\
copy c:\dos\qbasic.* a:\
copy c:\dos\edit.* a:\

now put your floppy back into your other computer and boot with it in.

If you have already run fdisk, then the following command will format the hard drive and transfer the system

format c: /s

then you will be able to boot from your hard drive and add whatever OS you like.

[Ed_S]

Great! Made it this far...

Link to previous thread: http://www.sysopt.com/forum/Forum2/HTML/001302.html

What OS is your newer machine? Assuming it's W95 orW98, you'll need to make a change in Zonker's instructions to transfer those files to floppy. instead of

copy c:\dos\fdisk.* a:\
it would be
copy c:\windows\command\fdisk.* a:\
etc.

Or from explorer, select the files mentioned and copy from there. Much faster.

This will make HD bootable, but that's all.
You're going to need a set of dos disks to get this one going, Win 9x just can't be done on a 40 mb HD. Win 3.x is possible, but it requires dos loaded first.
Maybe you know someone that has a set lying around & will part with them? 720k drive will be a problem here, even my oldest set (dos 5.0) is on 1.44 (did find a set of win 3.1 disks on 5 1/4 floppies, though!)

What area are you in, anyway? Could be someone here near enough to you who'd part with a set, maybe even have an extra 1.44 gathering dust.

Now, to get a jump on the next thing, does this 486 have a CD drive or sound card? You didn't mention anything before, but it didn't matter at that point.

[This message has been edited by Ed_S (edited 06-21-99).]

[This message has been edited by Ed_S (edited 06-21-99).]

[jayzad]

akimbo
Can't belive no one has an old version of dos that they could send you. http://www.sysopt.com/forum/frown.gif
Check your mail. http://www.sysopt.com/forum/smile.gif

[akimbo]

Already made up a new boot disk last nite from another 486 I have running windows 95. Copied files through file manager.

this COMPUTER has no cd, no sound card, it had nothin' when I started, but it has 64 mb ram , as far as I can tell, and a decent board in a large case.

NOw...I am DONE messing around with this old 40 MB Hard drive,JUST TOO SMALL, thanks to all of your help, BUT...I am somewhat reticent to remove a 500 mb hard drive from my other 486w/ only 8 mb ram....

When I put the 40 MB hard drive on this new MOBO and auto detected it, it erased any info on the drive.....

Questions: HOW DO YOU JUST TRANSFER A HARD DRIVE FROM ONE COMPUTER TO ANOTHER, without disturbing what is already on there??

DO YOU HAVE TO AUTO DETECT IT IN SETUP??, BECAUSE SETUP CONTAINS INFO FOR THE LAST OR PREVIOUS DRIVE THAT WAS IN THERE, DOESN'T IT??

OR DO YOU JUST COPY NEW HARD DRIVE INFO INTO SPACE PROVIDED ON HARD DRIVE SETUP???


Just got up....not enuf coffee yet, pardon the rambling
YOU GUYS ARE GREAT!~!!!

AKIMBOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

[jayzad]

Check your mail http://www.sysopt.com/forum/smile.gif

[akimbo]

jayzad

nuttin' in my email
what should I be looking for??

akimboooo

[Ed_S]

Just letting the bios auto detect a drive will not disturb the data on it. As I recall, the 40 was OK before format.

Oh yeah, just to make things worse, I read on some forum somewhere to reformat the hard drive, and I did so, but did it through the CMOS setup program in the 486. There was an option to format C: So I did.

My bios is set to "auto" as the drive type, it detects everytime it's booted. I swap the drive as needed using removeable racks, auto makes it easier. Never a data problem.
But if you're not comfortable with auto-detecting another drive, then you can manually enter the parameters (Heads, cylinders, etc.) easily. In the bios, under drive type, there will be an opton for "user define" which will allow you to enter the info. Just scroll through the drive types, usually the last one is it.
Before you take it out of the other machine, check that bios for the parameters.
Now, what OS is on that drive? If its Windows '95 , you should know that it WILL have problems if moved to a different motherboard. When windows 9x boots, it detects all hardware, including MB, and will scramble itself unless you know exactly what to do. And maybe even if you do know!

Jayzad - thought about doing that myself, but don't have a copy on 720's. Thanks. http://www.sysopt.com/forum/smile.gif http://www.sysopt.com/forum/smile.gif

[jayzad]

First of all I really don't know squat.
Please don't laugh to load. We are just two newbies trying to help each other. http://www.sysopt.com/forum/smile.gif

What is your system.
Brand name or gernaic_____?
What do you plan to put on this hard drive dos/win 3.1/95______?
I don't think that you will be able to install any windows version. Because you have a 720 floppy. 95 needs cdrom in computer or 95 needs at min. 3.5 floppy at 1.44. Win 3.1 needs 1.44 we might be able to find Win 3.0 on a 720 but I dought it.
486/sx/dx/dx2/dx4_______?
It should be written on the processor itself.
What kind of cpu socket/ zip/ hardwired_____?
How much Ram ________?
You should be able to see this on the monitor
during bootup.
Does it have 30pin and 72pin if so how many.______?
I know if you try and pull the 500mb hard drive out of your other coputer. You must set it to the proper type in the bios. (sectors/ heads/ cylinders/ land zone....)
I'll post the question on the BBS and find out. I don't think you can make a (system disk, boot disk) from a computer running win 95 and then boot up the 486 and then format the hard drive with it. Then install dos or win 3.x becausec the version are different.
Anyway Since you don't have a cdrom in computer I think we are going to have to get you the right software first. I can send you a set of dos 5.0 install disk on 720 and I'll look for a win 3.0 on the same media.
I'll send you a email for your address.
Later http://www.sysopt.com/forum/smile.gif

[This message has been edited by jayzad (edited 06-22-99).]

[Ed_S]

Thought I should try to clarify things about moving drive to different system. When '95 is first installed, it goes though a hardware detection routine which identifies everything to the opreating system. Everytime the machine is started thereafter, '95 checks for changes to known hardware. If it finds a change it will stop and prompt you to install the software that is needed to operate the "new" hardware. For instance you change a video card then boot the system. W95 starts, expecting the old card, can't find it, finds new instead. It may go ahead & prompt for proper driver, or it may not start at all if system was not prepared for change. This one's relatively easy, boot to safe mode, make the change, reboot
A mainboard change is a totally different story. On the machine you're using now, go to settings\control panel\system\device manager. Now click on the + next to system devices. Everything under this, plus all ports and drive controllers, relate to the mainboard and will be changed all at once. Any other different components such as video card add to the confusion. The OS will get weird. It will try to detect all this change and repeatedly prompt for W95 CD and command you to reboot. Eventually it should stop, but still won't be right as it will now "think" it has 2 of many resources. Might be possible to recover, but it's best to reinstall from scratch when changing the board.

[akimbo]

Thanks for reply, Ed_S

I am still somewhat confused, based on info you provided in an earlier reply, that is:


Just letting the bios auto detect a drive will not disturb the data on it
My bios is set to "auto" as the drive type, it detects everytime it's booted. I swap the drive as needed using removeable racks, auto makes it easier. Never a data problem.

So , my quandry now is, if I Put the 540 drive in "new" 486 with a different mainboard, I should reformat and re install windows 95.? Then , I take it I should back up all important files, personal files first?
I know there is something I am just missing here . When you say there is no loss of data, does that mean, the programs I have installed under windows, like Publisher, Home Architect,Quicken, etc. Or.... should I just delete all of the hardware drivers, and reinstall one at a time...like, reinstall cd-rom, re-install video card, re-install modem, etc....?

I'm just waiting here to slap my forehead with the palm of my hand and go...."oh yeah, now I get it!"

Best regards,
Akimbooooooooooooooooo

[Ed_S]

The bios detection phase merely allows the motherboard and controller to recognize the HD. It does not reconfigure the software, that's a separate operation done by the OS.

Anything valuable should be backed up before ths drive is removed from it's current system. You may not need to format, but if you do all data will be lost. If format is avoidable, all programs will remain intact & should be functional. But back it up & prepare for the worst.

Best way I know to preserve everything after board swap is:

Before removing from old sys:
Change video driver to standard vga, 640x480
Enter device manager & select each motherbaord resource under system devices, ports, HD controller, & FD controller.
One at a time, select these and click "remove"
When all are gone, shut down & physically remove drive.

Afer installing in "new" sys:
Boot up & allow windows to detect.
Be ready with W95 install disks or CD

This will be impossible as system stands, though, since there is no CD drive and only a 720k floppy. Or are you taking these from the other 486 along with the HD? For that matter, what advantage does the "new" board provide?