Newbie hard drive ?'s: will take a genius to answer these!!!

[akimbo]

Hi to all
While I am not new to computing, I have never been inside a computer before, except to add a sound card, scanner card, etc.
I have lots of old computers and parts around, so I decided to tinker...

Here's the puzzle:
I had an old 386 NEC powermate with a 40 MB Hard Drive running some old version of DOS.

I have a 486 laying around, no hard drive, no floppy drive, but lots of Ram on board.

Sooo. I yank the hard drive from the 386
Install it into the 486
Go to CMOS setup and auto detect new hard drive...all is well, so far.
Yanked the old 3.5 floppy drive from the 386 and installed this into the 486 as well

Here comes the questions:
The 486 will not get me to the DOS C\ Prompt and I can't figure out why.??
If dos was running on the hard drive before, shouldn't it still be there?
I get to a message that says.."no operating system" insert boot disk>
When I insert a boot disk ito the A: drive, I get an error, "drive not recognized" , or something like that.

Oh yeah, just to make things worse, I read on some forum somewhere to reformat the hard drive, and I did so, but did it through the CMOS setup program in the 486. There was an option to format C: So I did.

This seems like a great forum, any ideas on how I can get this 486 to boot up??
Will I have to reinstall DOS, if I do get it to boot up?
And did I totally f&#@ it up by reformatting the hard drive?

Lots of questions, now lay some answers on me

Best regards,
Akimbooooooooooooooooooooooo

[Ed_S]

When you that all was well after installing & detecting the HD, does that mean that it booted, or that bios found it?

Sounds like that doesn't really matter at this point, since drive has since been formatted. Yes, formatting destroys ALL data that was on drive. Operating system & any software will have to be reinstalled.

First things first. You must get floppy setup corrected before you can do anything.
Did you setup the FD in bios or is it cabled correct? Either would cause "drive not recognized" error. Check bios and set to "3.5. 1.44MB" ... Drive IS a 1.44 not an old 720kb, right?
Once floppy is working, then we can deal with HD.
Since you formatted from bios, was this just "format" or was it "low-level format"? if just format, then all there is to do is reinstall dos. Boot to disk 1 & follow the instructions.
If low-level format, it's a bit more. You'll need a boot disk which includes fdisk and format commands. Dos (5.0 or newer) disk one should work.
Start system w. boot disk.
Type "fdisk"
Choose "create dos partition or logical dos drive"
Choose "create primary dos partition"
Follow the prompts, using maximum allowable sizes. With that small drive, you've really no choice.
This prepares the drive for dos formatting.
Restart, again with boot disk
Type "Format C:" & just follow instructions.
Then reinstall dos.

BTW, what are you going to do with that tiny drive after all this is done???

Good luck

PS - I'm definately no genius, but took a shot anyway!

[This message has been edited by Ed_S (edited 06-11-99).]

[DavidX]

I second Ed_S. A 486 definitely deserves better than a 40Mb hard drive! You should be able to buy a used 500Mb drive really cheap. But, like Ed_S said, sort out your FDD first.

[akimbo]

Thanks for replies

Before we continue, please understand, I have never messed around inside computers before, and I thought this would just be a good way to break in, you know, like when you changed the plugs and tuned up your first car or something like that, plus , I don't want to "learn" on either of my new systems. I don't really plan on doing any thing with that hard drive, just to get things goin; then go from there.

But , to show how wet behind the ears I am, Ed-S, you bring up a point that I was going to question: How do I know if it is a 1.4 floppy or a 720...there is no writing or indication on the drive case or anything.

Just learning guys.....thanks,,,,I will try all and anything you suggest...nothin' to lose here but time and an old beat computer..

Akimboooooooooo

[DavidX]

akimbo
I agree with you absolutely! No better way to learn.

What does your BIOS say the FDD is? Some BIOSs will not accept a 720Kb FDD as a 1.44Mb FDD if it isn't. Otherwise, try a 720Kb disk, see if that works, then go for a 1.44Mb disk, see if that works.

[akimbo]

DavidX

Thanks for the support...thought I might be laughed out of here.
I set the A: drive as a 1.44 floppy when I was in the Setup
The only thing I didn't try yet is , well, all of the things that Ed_S mentioned, and trying a 720 floppy in there.

Im gonna try all of this stuff and then get back on, probably be tomorrow by then

Thanks
Akimbooooooooooooo

[Blade Runner]

For setting up a hd and a cd rom look no further than my disk.
http://welcome.to/Blade_Runners_Boot_Disk


Blade Runner :-ޮ

[Ed_S]

I don't know of an easy way to visually tell the two apart. If the 386 is still together except for what you've mentioned, you should be able to start it far enough to access bios & see what the floppy settings were. If that's not possible, try one setting then the other if first try returns an error. Hopefully it is 1.44, as 720k dos disks would be tough to find! If it's a 720, try to get a 1.44, they're cheap enough,(under $20 US) even for a learning experience & you won't hurt it, so can be used when you're ready for another build.
Floppy cable has two sets of connectors. Use the set after the twist, farthest from the motherboard. Be sure the red stripe on the cable goes to pin 1 on both MB and drive. On the drive, pin 1 is nearest the power connector, the MB will be marked.

This is the best way to learn, good to see someone that has the sense not to tackle new stuff for first attempt. Have seen too many posts of "Ok, I bought all this, now how does it work?" variety!

[SoopaStar]

Okay..I dont usually deal with floppy problems..cause honestly I hate them and hope they go away soon http://www.sysopt.com/forum/wink.gif

However, with older systems like a 386 and 486, I thought they were specific as to which plug on the cable was being used. On older machines, I thought (granted, I am no expert..i just fidle with hardware..cause i love the inside of PC's). I thought that at one point one of the connections on the cable was meant for a 5.25 disk and one was meant for a 3.5. I know they use different connectors, but there were adaptors for these. My adivce is similar to Ed_s. Put it back for a few minutes into your 386 see what the settings were (plug on the cable, bios settings) and then duplicate that on your 486). Also,--and this may be a dumb question--does the read/write light stay on when you boot the PC up? if so, that would be a problem http://www.sysopt.com/forum/wink.gif
Happy computing,

Me

[LJE2]

SoopaStar
On a floppy cable for a 3.5 drive there are 2 connectors that will connect to a 3.5 floppy drive, the first one (before the cable makes the twist) will be the B drive, the 2nd one (after the twist in the cable) will be the A drive.

[akimbo]

To all
Great idea about reinstalling floppy in the old 386 .

I definitely understand the cabling issues, you know, the drive order , the twist, the pin 1, etc. just didn't know if there was an easy way to spot the MB differences between two drives sittin' on my shelf.

Will try all of this stuff today. It's moving day today. so I will be back later. Not ignoring anyone.

Sure are a Lot of Great Minds out there
You should all be proud of yourselves!

Akimboooooo

[Ed_S]

You don't really need to actually reinstall the drive in 386, the bios will still have it's old settings, just start it & access bios. Doesn't matter if drive is there or not. While you've got 386 "up", write down the HD parameters so you can double-check them on 486.

[Bob-NB]

Just look inside the door on the 3 1/2 floppy. If it has a pin on both the left and right side, it is a 1.44. If it has a pin on only one side, it is a 720.

[akimbo]

'dere ya go !

Akimboooooooooooo

[akimbo]

'dere ya go !

Akimboooooooooooo

[philipg]

I agree with what everyone is say about your floppy get it working first. Here's something I ran into on an old 486 I worked on.

When I was in the bios and did an auto-detect I was prompted with three choices of size of HD and settings and if I picked the wrong one the computer gave the same error your expirenceing. See if there is more than one choice for the HD autodetect and expirment. with the choices. Only one is the right one, even though you may be able to install DOS it won't necessarily hold the install.