MSI KT333 (KT3?) Ultra..comments please!

[Bovon]

Hey guys, I bought a Epox 8K7A from the traders forums, and when it got here, I see 12 capacitors with bulging tops.. I have not tested the board, but will not use it..if it is not dead now, its only a matter of time. :mad:

I have just made another deal for an MSI KT333 Ultra with a guy that has the board currently installed and working fine. He is aware of the bad motherboard capacitor situation, but does not think MSI was included in the bad cap fiasco ...

I have never used an MSI board, and am not familiar with the AMI BIOS.

I would appreciate some comments..good or bad... for this particular board..if anybody has one, or has used one..and then I would like some comments concerning MSI boards in general..quality, stability...general cost range new etc. etc.

http://www.msicomputer.com/product/p_spec.asp?model=KT3_Ultra

I would also like to know a little about:

• Live BIOS <<-- I "thought" all BIOSes were alive! <grin> :)
• Fuzzy Logic 3 <<-- anything to do with 'fuzzy math'?
• Live Driver <<-- I'm afraid to ask about this one! (a chauffeur)? :D
• D-Bracket <<---what is a D-Bracket used for?
• Support 600MHz up to 2200+ MHz processor and higher <<--How high?


Thanks much

[crusious31]

I have that motherboard. It has been a great board. I bought it a few months after I started reading the forums here, and built my first system with it. Its been running great for a little over two years now. At the time, I ended up putting a athlon XP 1800+ (palomino :( ), I didn’t know the difference back then) with crucial memory and a radon 7000 (I was on a budget).

I have since upgraded the hard drive, memory and processor (With the latest BIOS update you can use up to a Barton 3000+ with 333 FSB) with no problems. I am not to fond of the Live drivers and bios update; however, I did use it to update the bios once before the latest bios that is out, and it did work fine. It’s just an interface to guide you through the update. Its like windows update in a way. Just scans your computer for latest stuff.

There is not much special about the AMI bios. I would just download a copy of the manual and look at it while going through the bios. It gives info on each setting. (When I first put the computer together, I turned the wake on LAN feature on and when I turned my DSL modem on, the computer would come on.)

I tried fuzzy logic, but Aida32 does the same thing + a lot more. Fuzzy logic just monitors temp and voltage.

D- Bracket Is a way to diagnose problems with the computer. It has four LED lights on it that light up in different ways. The lights act like a code. You can read more about it here.

http://forum.msi.com.tw/thread.php?threadid=34535

For some reason your link is not working.

http://www.msi.com.tw/program/support/download/dld/spt_dld_detail.php?UID=341&kind=1

[Bovon]

Thanks for the good run down crusious31... I appreciate it.

I fixed my link..its just to the board and data for it is all.. I had made the same thread elsewhere, then copied/pasted the post..which had cut the URL back to fit the post page, and that cutback URL would not work as a complete URL.

Sounds like the board may very well be a nice one...so many of the mainboards that date back a couple of years are dropping dead all over the place from the bad capacitor syndrome!.. It seems some of the mainboard manufacturers learned about that fiasco early on, and dumped what they had of those caps.

I may flash the BIOS and see what I can pickup in a later model AMD chip...is the Barton 3000+ about the higest?..or, is that chip the highest speed CPU out right now? (I need to go study up on CPU's. which I have lost track of in the last year and a half). The only processors I currently have are the older T-birds, 1 Ghz, 1.2 Ghz, 1.33 Ghz and the one I am running now, 1.4 Ghz..plus a couple of Durons in the same frequency range. I try to maintain enough used parts to whip up a small machine in a hurry if one of the family looses a machine to lightning, etc.

Thanks again for the input..it will come in very handy soon...

[MalRic]

I have one too for a couple of years amd it is still running solid.:D :D

[crusious31]

My KT3ultra2 has not suffered from bad capacitor syndrome as of now. You just planted a seed in my head so I got the flashlight out and looked real close, everything look good.

The 3000+ is not the best CPU out, there is a 3200+ and some others I believe. However, the 3000+ that the MSI KT3ultra2 will accept is the version with a front side bus of 333mhz only. This board will not run the processors with the 400 FSB (It might run them, but not stated on msi page). So DDR 2700 166Mhz will be fine (specialy since no overclocking). Some people have overclocked the board past the 333FSB but I will not be doing it. I'm afraid the kt333 chipset might go out or something.

[Bovon]

Hey...thanks again, crusious31...you too MalRic..

Well, I am not into clocking, I have done it just to learn, and to see the benchmarks onscreen etc., but since I do not a gamer to any extreme, and overclocking is a hobby within a hobby, I just did not go that route.

I was (am) getting up some extra stuff to build my Grand Daughter a system of her own for Christmas...and now that the first board I bought has bad caps, and this MSI is apparently a much better board, the Grand Daughter may get what I am now running and the MSI plus a new Barton 3000+ and RAM in here..may be the way I want to go...we'll see. I am currently running an Iwill KK266 with a 1.4 Ghz T-bird, and 256 mb Crucial Cas2, PC133 SDRAM.

Based on the above system specs, what would you 'think' an upgrade here using the 3000+ in the MSI and about 256 mb DDR 2700 would present?..and I do not mean software benchmarks, I mean what would a user *feel* when using an upgrade from what I now have vs the MSI etc.

Normally, the older trend was to upgrade the frequency of the CPU by at least 3 before the user could begin to get a feel for any decent upgrade...maybe today, a 'speed' double (1.4 Ghz vs 2.2 Ghz) would be noticeable?..and since I do not really game too much, 256 mb of RAM should be sufficient (I also do not do a lot of photo editing etc. which can require a lot of RAM).

BTW, I forgot to mention..a capacitor does not always have to be bulging to be defective enough to cause a problem with the circuits. A capacitor (this tall kind) is used for filtering primarily, and passes no current to speak of..only the small amount of AC ripple (or hum) that makes it out of the power supply. They also are used for timing and holding a charge on a circuit...like for instance, the BIOS CMOS chip has several capacitors in its power circuit, these are there to hold a charge on the chip while a technician replaces the battery. This is why you will read where somebody says to reset the BIOS back to factory defaults by using the jumper provided on the board to "clear the CMOS"...the jumper shorts the power to the chip circuit...you can remove the battery for awhile and do the same thing..but it takes longer because the capacitors must drain off their charge before the BIOS will reset itself.

When current begins to flow to ground thru a capacitor, it begins to heat up quickly because its working material inside was not designed for current flow, and the heating of the composition makeup of any capacitor is what causes the swelling...this can take some time, because the current flow thru a capacitor just beginning to go bad will be very small..not enough to really heat the material, but can cause circuit problems...the visible effects may not be seen for sometime.

Thats enough capacitor/circuit theory to hold you for awhile!! :t

[Bovon]

crusious31, while surfing MSI, I happened up on an apparently different or upgraded version of this board.

http://www.msicomputer.com/product/p_spec.asp?model=KT3_Ultra

The above link is the same as I posted in the initial thread post.

http://www.msicomputer.com/product/detail_spec/KT3Ultra.htm

This URL is for the same (?) board, but with some better? FSB settings...thats about all I saw different. It may be the same board with an updated BIOS.

Check the two out and let me know what you think...are they the same?, or..are they different.

This last one has KT3 Ultra (MS-6380E v1.0) for its product specs...the other one says MSI Part No: MS-6380E-010

[crusious31]

"Thats enough capacitor/circuit theory to hold you for awhile!!"

I have not read that much on capacitors and the role they play, I actually thought they reduced the current from like a high level of electricity to a lower one, but I must be thinking of something else. My father is a welder/generator repair man. He has brought home some big capacitors that he states are filled with an oil fluid. What are in motherboard capacitors? I’ve seen the pictures floating around here with the bulged caps; it looks like a sponge is coming out the bottom of them. I wonder if the ones in the power supplies about the size of a quarter (round) have fluid in them. Most probably advise against taking them apart? I know that can shock you if you don’t discharge them with a screwdriver or something like that.

I ramble on too much.

They look to be the same, however my board (KT3ultra2) has a blue pinout near the botton of the board for the D - bracket where as the (KT3ultra)does not. But it does seem to have some audio hook ups to the left bottom of the board that the Ultra2 does not have. Looks like they made a lot of versions of this board.

Ill attach a picure of my board I took before I put it into my computer.

[crusious31]

Here is a picture of my box which show the part # and the D-bracket.

hope it helps:t
KT3 Ultra Series (http://www.msi.com.tw/program/support/download/dld/spt_dld_detail.php?UID=11&kind=1) looks like these can only run processors with FSB of 266 ( this is kind of confusing, the manual for these talk about all the KT3ultra boards.)

KT3 Ultra2 (http://www.msi.com.tw/program/support/download/dld/spt_dld_detail.php?UID=341&kind=1) Boards with MS-6380E PCB & KT333 chipset can run barton and 333 FSB with bios update.

KT3 Ultra2-C (http://www.msi.com.tw/program/support/download/dld/spt_dld_detail.php?UID=357&kind=1) Can not run barton

Did you already receive the board; do you know what the numbers silk screened on the PCB are? Those numbers and crucial because you can see if the bios for that # will support the barton CPU with FSB 333.

[BipolarBill]

The KT3, KT3 Ultra, KT3 Ultra-ARU and KT3 Ultra2-C cannot host the Barton CPUs. The KT3 Ultra2 KT3 Ultra-R and KT3 Ultra-BR can. They are all very good motherboards. I have been pounding a KT3 Ultra and a KT3 Ultra2 for years. They are dead reliable.

[Bovon]

Thanks crusious31 and BpB, I suspect the board is the older 'ultra', but I have not received the board yet...my payment has not reached the seller yet (Canada), so it may be awhile. I was kinda hoping the board could be upgraded to run the Barton, but no problem..if it does not, I'll look around for one that will.

About the capacitors. The little ones from a motherboard can't hurt you..they only hold up to about 12 volts max..the two big ones inside the PSU might make you hurt your self, they will hold about 300 volts (I have been "bit" by 3,000 volts... OUCH...that hurts)!!... LOL.

There are many types of capacitors, some are dry..others are oilfilled..this is mainly for cooling and some insulation.

These we find in mainboards and TVs are known as electrolytic's and contain a secret ingredient inside that makes up the goo inside that is conductive. The goo inside is called "electrolyte".

The original design for any filter capacitor "way back when" was two sheets of foil with a ultra thin substance like clear plastic or saran wrap etc, and the whole mess was rolled up and put in a can...two wires came out on insulated terminals..these two wires were attached to the foil, one to each. There is no electrical connection between the two sheets of foil. The electrical properties of any capacitor is to block DC voltage while allowing AC voltage to pass thru. This is why they are used for filtering many times...the output of all AC to DC power supplies will have some AC left in the circuits after the conversion...these filter capacitors are added across the output DC to capture any AC that may still be there and cause it to be grounded out. Since there is not supposed to be any AC there in the first place, there is no problem grounding it out of the circuits..the DC never even sees the ground so it passes right on by.

Now, there are many uses for capacitors..as in welding machines etc. I am not up on welding equipment, so I really don't know what those caps are used for.

When a capacitor shorts out internally, it then will pass DC to ground. This causes the cap to heat and litterly "blow its top", as well as cause lower voltages thruout the system. God only knows how many PSU's have been swapped out because of low voltage when the under lying problem may have been some caps on the motherboard failing.

"I actually thought they reduced the current from like a high level of electricity to a lower one, but I must be thinking of something else".Yep..that was something else..probably resistors..these are designed to reduce current flow, thus reducing voltage at the same time.

BTW.. you can dissemble any capacitor to see whats inside, those made years ago (maybe 20 years or so) have an oil that contained PCB's...you don't want that **** on your skin if you can help it. But, I have been knee deep in that stuff for years before they found that PCB's could cause cancer..but, those caps are in the metal containers like your Father brings home...cut an old one open sometime and drain the oil...see what its made of..such as that is what really got me interested in electronics. The little caps like on a motherboard, will just have that goo inside, and not much to look at until you have studied the construction of the several types and then you might know what you are looking at. Those larger ones in the PSU may have some foil inside..I doubt there will be two sheets, one positive and one negative like in the old days because they have found how to make them very small by using the metalized electrolyte goo...tear some open and see whats there...interesting.