Looks Like Utah still has Capital Punishment

[j.m@talk]

That should give all involved in the Lori Hacking case summink to be concerned about )-|

http://www.findlori.com

http://deseretnews.com/dn/view/0,1249,595081687,00.html

:(

[gjimene2]

Too bad he isn't here in Texas. He'll be deep fryin' for that one.

[mireland]

him, and that Peterson guy should be skinned alive then shot..:mad:

[j.m@talk]

Originally posted by gjimene2
Too bad he isn't here in Texas. He'll be deep fryin' for that one.

If he kinda............ disapeered & turned up in Texas would that help ;)

[ukulele]

In Hawaii they let a court of law convict murderers. We don't have capital punishment so we send them to Texas. If they kill again they are subject to Texas law. Works for us anyway. ;)

[werz]

whats best about capital punishment is that when they execute the wrong person, the guilty one goes free.

[rip_1956]

Originally posted by werz
whats best about capital punishment is that when they execute the wrong person, the guilty one goes free.

WTF is that all about?

Didn't you mean to say "whats best about capital punishment is that when they execute the right person, that person will NEVER DO IT AGAIN!"

Putting them in jail for life only gives them a free pass to kill prison guards and other inmates. What would stop them from doing that while locked up? Giving them another life sentence when they are already serving one? And what if they escape? Open season on anyone they meet.

I know that your remark is about how terrible it would be for an innocent person to be wrongly executed. Why not just say so?
:t

[Rabbitrunner51]

Kills his wife while sleeping......

Mattress gets all bloody ....


Goes out and immediately buys a new mattress.....

Now if I were the procecuting attorney..I would say case closed...

This..like all others of its kind is very sad...

The woman are always so beautiful and young.....sad.... very sad....

I can never understand how somebody always thinks they can just get mad..kill and then think they can get away with it...

by nature..I am fairly pro life...but my take is why should we as a society keep poeple in jails and feed them and support them after taking part in such a hideous criime....or cold blooded murder.

In the old days they would have him hung in a matter of days.....

[j.m@talk]

I'm beginning to think that killing him ain't gonna improve the situation any :(

[ukulele]

Originally posted by j.m@talk
I'm beginning to think that killing him ain't gonna improve the situation any :(

I'd like to see some statistics that shows capital punishment has ever improved anything.

[rip_1956]

I read somewhere that capital punishment is 100% effective in cutting the recidivism rate. Don't remember where, though.

Dark humor aside, don't get me wrong. Like Rabbitrunner, I'm pro-life also. But there are times when nothing else will work.

[ukulele]

Originally posted by rip_1956
I read somewhere that capital punishment is 100% effective in cutting the recidivism rate. Don't remember where, though.

Dark humor aside, don't get me wrong. Like Rabbitrunner, I'm pro-life also. But there are times when nothing else will work.

So we can conclude that no one in death roe has ever killed himself or another prisoner? It is certainly curious that Hawaii has no capital punishment but one of the lowest per capita murder rates in the country. We also have a very liberal judicial system and very low rate of incarceration but a curiously low crime rate for most felonys in spite of being the most racially diverse state in the country too.

[AdamST]

I read somewhere that capital punishment is 100% effective in cutting the recidivism rate. Don't remember where, though..

hahaha. What right wing, neo-con news letter did you read that it.

[Billforce]

Originally posted by ukulele
I'd like to see some statistics that shows capital punishment has ever improved anything.

It's a proven fact that executing a prisoner costs the public MORE money than retaining him in prison for life.

[rip_1956]

... "hahaha. What right wing, neo-con news letter did you read that it." ...

All of them, of course !

Maybe some clarification is needed. I guess I should have said '... capital punishment, --> after being carried out <-- , is 100% effective ..." . I don't need a 'right wing, neo-con' newsletter to figure that out. Can't remember ever reading about how any criminal managed to kill again after being executed.

:rolleyes:

And being concerned that a death row inmate might commit suicide makes as much sense as not letting them have a cigarette with their last meal because of health concerns.

:t

[ukulele]

Can't remember ever reading about how any criminal managed to kill again after being executed.

It's a well known fact that dead inmates in Texas are dried, ground up and fed to cattle. They could get mad prisoner disease and pass it on to Big Mac eaters all over the country.

[AdamST]

Capital punishment isn’t not a deterrent, never has been and it never will be. A Government that’s kills people for killing people is to hypocritical to hold that power. Governments need to be held to a higher standard and that means not killing its citizens not mater what there crimes. For a government to kill its prisoners puts that nation in the league average nations. Average just isn’t good enough for a country that claims to be the world leader in human and civil rights.

[rip_1956]

It's a well known fact that dead inmates in Texas are dried, ground up and fed to cattle. They could get mad prisoner disease and pass it on to Big Mac eaters all over the country.

I stand corrected... But I like Big Macs.


Capital punishment isn’t not a deterrent, never has been and it never will be.

You're right. That's why it isn't called Capital Deterrent. It's meant to be Punishment, after all.

[j.m@talk]

Originally posted by ukulele
It is certainly curious that Hawaii has no capital punishment but one of the lowest per capita murder rates in the country.

It prolly cos ya got less Yanks there :)

Giv em a gun & a Orse & they fink they're John Freakin Wayne.


Mind you I'd Buy a gun If I had to share my country wiv Mireland :D

I fink if I was to move State side I'd set up as a Funeral dude )-|

[ukulele]

Good point, but I suggest you stay in England. The Soylant Green industry has that wrapped up now in the wild west. They were bought out by Mc D. Note the owners name change just to keep it honest......http://bookarchives.tripod.com/id292.html

[mireland]

Originally posted by j.m@talk
[Mind you I'd Buy a gun If I had to share my country wiv Mireland :D

I[/B]


you'd need one too...:D

[j.m@talk]

Originally posted by ukulele
The Soylant Green industry has that wrapped up now in the wild west.

Woooooooo ............ As Don King so rightly Says: "Only in America"

:-@

[BoilerMan]

Pls forgive me for cross posting hear, but I have to make a point.

Originally posted by AdamST
Capital punishment isn’t not a deterrent, never has been and it never will be. A Government that’s kills people for killing people is to hypocritical to hold that power. Governments need to be held to a higher standard and that means not killing its citizens not mater what there crimes. For a government to kill its prisoners puts that nation in the league average nations. Average just isn’t good enough for a country that claims to be the world leader in human and civil rights.

http://www.sysopt.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=167296

Originally posted by AdamST
I'm pro choice as well. I realy do not know what to say to men who are anti-abortion. Men realy have no right telling woman what they can and cant do with there own bodies.

I'm also pro freedom, unlike the neo-cons.


So it's ok to kill babies, but not criminals? Maby we should punish female criminals by preforming abortions on there un-born children then huu!

[Vampiel]

OK, I just have one question. Why is Europe opposed to the death penalty so much? I know this is a person to person bases, but it seems like that is the norm. there.

Is it history? Or is it just the overwhelming majority oppose it?

[j.m@talk]

Somthing to do wiv us not beiing barbarians I guess :t

[Vampiel]

Originally posted by ukulele
I'd like to see some statistics that shows capital punishment has ever improved anything.

If they are found guilty then sentenced to murder, allow them to prove their innocence while in jail, such is the case now. If not, kill them. Why pay for them to sit in jail, they are the slime of society and I dont want to pay an extra $1 to keep them locked up.

[Vampiel]

Originally posted by j.m@talk
Somthing to do wiv us not beiing barbarians I guess :t

Didnt all the barbarians come from Europe?

:D

[Vampiel]

Originally posted by rip_1956
It's a well known fact that dead inmates in Texas are dried, ground up and fed to cattle. They could get mad prisoner disease and pass it on to Big Mac eaters all over the country.

I stand corrected... But I like Big Macs.


Capital punishment isn’t not a deterrent, never has been and it never will be.

You're right. That's why it isn't called Capital Deterrent. It's meant to be Punishment, after all.

I agree completely.

[AdamST]

Since 1990 Amnesty International has documented executions of child offenders in eight countries: China, the Democratic Republic of Congo, Iran, Nigeria, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, the USA and Yemen. Several of these countries have changed their laws to exclude the practice. Executions of child offenders represent a tiny fraction of the total of executions worldwide recorded by Amnesty International each year. Most of the executions were in the USA..

The country which has carried out the greatest number of known executions of child offenders is the USA (19 since 1990).

[AdamST]

http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0777460.html

The death penalty is legal in these countries.

* Afghanistan
* Antigua and Barbuda
* Bahamas
* Bahrain
* Bangladesh
* Barbados
* Belarus
* Belize
* Botswana
* Burundi
* Cameroon
* Chad
* China (People's Republic)
* Comoros
* Congo (Democratic Republic)
* Cuba
* Dominica
* Egypt
* Equatorial Guinea
* Eritrea
* Ethiopia
* Gabon
* Ghana
* Guatemala
* Guinea
* Guyana
* India
* Indonesia
* Iran
* Iraq
* Jamaica
* Japan
* Jordan
* Kazakhstan
* Korea, North
* Korea, South
* Kuwait
* Kyrgyzstan
* Laos
* Lebanon
* Lesotho
* Liberia
* Libya
* Malawi
* Malaysia
* Mongolia
* Morocco
* Myanmar
* Nigeria
* Oman
* Pakistan
* Palestinian Authority
* Philippines
* Qatar
* Rwanda
* St. Kitts and Nevis
* St. Lucia
* St. Vincent and the Grenadines
* Saudi Arabia
* Sierra Leone
* Singapore
* Somalia
* Sudan
* Swaziland
* Syria
* Taiwan
* Tajikistan
* Tanzania
* Thailand
* Trinidad and Tobago
* Uganda
* United Arab Emirates
* United States of America
* Uzbekistan
* Vietnam
* Yemen
* Zambia
* Zimbabwe

That's good company you keep.

[ukulele]

Originally posted by AdamST
The country which has carried out the greatest number of known executions of child offenders is the USA (19 since 1990).


Name one. Don't just make up stuff to look smart. You think folks here can't see through you.
Americans have never executed a minor.
Get a life you moron.

[AdamST]

here is somthing i found - http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A61418-2004Jul19.html

Ah I gave links. Those facts are from Amnesty international and infoplease.com. The USA is one of only 5 countries in the world that puts to death people under the age of 18.

Iran
Nigeria
Saudi Arabia
Pakistan
USA

That list might have changed a little.

[AdamST]

Since January 1990 Amnesty International has documented 36 executions of child offenders in eight countries– the Democratic Republic of Congo, Iran, Nigeria, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, the USA, China and Yemen. The USA carried out 19 executions – more than all other countries combined.

http://web.amnesty.org/pages/deathpenalty-children-eng

[ukulele]

In the United States it is unconstitutional to execute a minor. If however a person under the age of 18 and over the age of 16 or 17 is tried as an adult do to the especially heinous nature of the crime they can be sent to death row. It takes many more years to actually execute them. No minor has ever been executed in America. End of story.

[werz]

how old do you have to be to vote in all elections in the US, and how old do you have to be able to drink alcohol legally?

[werz]

Since the Supreme Court allowed executions to resume in 1976, 22 people have been put to death for crimes committed as minors. Thirteen of them were in Texas. Virginia ranked second, with three, and Oklahoma ranked third, with two.

[rip_1956]

Sure, the USA is in the list of capital punishment countries with the likes of Iran, etc. But I would bet that in many of those countries, people are executed for minor offenses like losing a soccer game, being the wrong religion or ethnicity, saying bad things about the government, minor drug possession, etc.

Here in the States, that does NOT happen. Only those who have been proven guilty of really terrible crimes, usually involving murder of innocent people, are executed. And that only after years of lengthy (and mandatory) appeals. That really adds to the cost of the process; that's why it costs more than life in prison.

Big difference compared to other countries in AdamST's list. Don't compare the USA with the likes of Idi Amin, Saddam, Pol Pot, etc.

[AdamST]

The USA is backwards compaired the rest of the modern world. The USA is one of only a few modern 1st world nations to excicute people. Yet there crime rate is higher the most other countires. The think the capital punishment experiment has failed.

[ukulele]

The USA is backwards compaired the rest of the modern world

You need to get off that frozen rock you are existing on and actually visit America one day. You might be surprised at what you were taught to believe in New Foundland.

[Billforce]

Originally posted by ukulele
You need to get off that frozen rock you are existing on and actually visit America one day. You might be surprised at what you were taught to believe in New Foundland.

Definition of a Canadian:
"An unarmed American with questionable health care".

This uniformed individual posts garbage that he constructs and never anything of any particular value. I used to be insensed by his rhetoric, but now just laugh at the idiotic posts. The only purpose in him posting is to incite anger. Never one item of quality.

It's truly amazing just how perverse some peoples concepts of something they don't know or understand can be implanted in their minds as truths.

Uke, just consider the source of the uniformed and ignorant as entertainment.

[ukulele]

Yea, I suppose some trolls just try harder. I suppose there ain't much else to do up there and you can bet the women are ugly too. :p

[Picard]

Originally posted by rip_1956 Capital punishment isn’t not a deterrent, never has been and it never will be.

You're right. That's why it isn't called Capital Deterrent. It's meant to be Punishment, after all. [/B]

LOL. rip thinks he's so logical, but instead shows quite the opposite. Me thinks you need to check the dictionary definitions of deterrent and punishment.

[Picard]

Originally posted by BoilerMan
Pls forgive me for cross posting hear, but I have to make a point.





So it's ok to kill babies, but not criminals? Maby we should punish female criminals by preforming abortions on there un-born children then huu!

Your point should be missed on everyone. Nowhere in the material you quote does it say it's ok to kill babies.

[Picard]

Originally posted by AdamST
here is somthing i found - http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A61418-2004Jul19.html

Ah I gave links. Those facts are from Amnesty international and infoplease.com. The USA is one of only 5 countries in the world that puts to death people under the age of 18.

Iran
Nigeria
Saudi Arabia
Pakistan
USA

That list might have changed a little.

Let's leave out the fact that by the time they are actually put to death, they are well over 18 years of age.

[ukulele]

Originally posted by Picard
Let's leave out the fact that by the time they are actually put to death, they are well over 18 years of age.

They also don't list the contributions to human rights any country has made. They are a one sided view with a hand out.

[rip_1956]

Originally posted by Picard
LOL. rip thinks he's so logical, but instead shows quite the opposite. Me thinks you need to check the dictionary definitions of deterrent and punishment.

Ok, I checked.

Deter: to try to prevent (ie, before the fact)
Punish: to impose a penalty on; inflict punishment on (ie, after the fact)

I was referring to the arguments I've read on how Capital Punishment, when used in a society as a deterrent, does not stop people from commiting crime 'before the fact'. I believe that to be the case. Murders will be committed no matter what the penalty might be. Capital punishment, as a deterrant, does not always work.

Some say that since it does not stop murder, etc, it should not be used. I do not believe that. It should be used to punish the guilty, 'after the fact', with the side benefit that it prevents that person from doing it again.

I hope that the sentence I quoted in bold (taken from Adamst's post) did not confuse you with the bad grammar it contained.

[Picard]

Originally posted by rip_1956
Ok, I checked.

Deter: to try to prevent (ie, before the fact)
Punish: to impose a penalty on; inflict punishment on (ie, after the fact)

I was referring to the arguments I've read on how Capital Punishment, when used in a society as a deterrent, does not stop people from commiting crime 'before the fact'. I believe that to be the case. Murders will be committed no matter what the penalty might be. Capital punishment, as a deterrant, does not always work.

Some say that since it does not stop murder, etc, it should not be used. I do not believe that. It should be used to punish the guilty, 'after the fact', with the side benefit that it prevents that person from doing it again.

I hope that the sentence I quoted in bold (taken from Adamst's post) did not confuse you with the bad grammar it contained.

Wow, just a little prodding, and he comes back with a very well stated rebuttal.

[rip_1956]

Originally posted by Picard
Wow, just a little prodding, and he comes back with a very well stated rebuttal.

Gosh, thanks (I think...)

Hey, it's just been a slow day here at work ^H^H^H^H home. I normally don't carry on like this. Gotta lay off the coffee.

:p :t

[cbh]

We already have capital punishment since our independence. :)

Nothing much to Singaporeans!

[Rabbitrunner51]

I don't believe the woman in NewZealand are so ugly....beauty is in the eye of the beholder...

re-thinking about the viewpoint that the death penalty is not a deterent ot crime...I must agree.

A murderer...doesn't very often think about such things and his rage and psychological mindset is so far off that they do what in their messed up mnd they have to for their own selfish purposes.

I just think by the pure logic of it all..that keeping a man in a prison and supporting him ..seems in our modern age....senseless.I mean..what for? What purpose does this serve but to show how humane we are??
Someone is going to have to show me the figurews on why it costs more to execute than a lifetime of costs and support for this man or anyone else....

I am an American and very proud of it..but I also believe that there are many other nations and beliefs out their in our vast .but small world, and the USA does not own the only moral right or a more proper belief......
We as a country have many beliefs residing inside our borders and nationalitites also....thats why people come here..so that they can practice whatever they believe with out undue prejudice..

One of our weaknesses and falicies in the way we have our states setr up is that they can all have many differing laws and it just gets very bazarre and ambiguous..in how we prosecute and the costs are insane for all of this...
We spend time and money to transfer people from one state to another to another..just to get the laws right .

I believe there should be a more national attitude on Law and justice...as it would ease the load and these same ambiguitiies would be lessened....
;)

[BoilerMan]

Originally posted by Picard
Your point should be missed on everyone. Nowhere in the material you quote does it say it's ok to kill babies.

I beg to differ.

Originally posted by AdamST
I'm pro choice as well

Kill:
a. To put to death.
b. To deprive of life

Baby:
b. An unborn child; a fetus.

Abortion:
a. Termination of pregnancy and expulsion of an embryo or of a fetus that is incapable of survival
b. Any of various procedures that result in such termination and expulsion. Also called i nduced abortion

Pro-choice:
favoring the legalization of abortion

Futher more, my point, for those of you whom it was missed upon was that AdamST was talking out of both sides of the mouth. In one thread stating that it is ok to take a life, yet in a another thread stating that it’s not ok to take a life.

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=kill
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=baby
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=abortion
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=pro-choice

[Rabbitrunner51]

such is the world of mortal men....

If it were us would we have the same viewpoints...hard to say..when your head is on the chopping block.....

I adhere to the greatest of all ten commandments..that says thou shall not kill...but I also believe in an eye for an eye sort of thing...esp. a premediatated murder and snuffing out of an innocent life.....just because of some macho guy who has to have his way.....

There were many other options to the solution he took...

It takes an absolute disrespect of humanity to do what he did...
Thats obvious.....

Now...here we go again with a long drawn out trial and all the publicity we create and it raises issues like the one we are all discussing....then the media...then after all the money and hype and whatever..we put him in prison so some poor son of an itch..can knife him...or oft him sometime??

Yeah..thats pro life and humanity all right......

[werz]

Originally posted by Picard
Let's leave out the fact that by the time they are actually put to death, they are well over 18 years of age.
you only get executed in the USA if your poor, so its obviously a motivation to lift your income or take the risk of being murdered by the state, after you've spent a few years on death row as Bubba's teenage squeeze.

[cbh]

Originally posted by werz
you only get executed in the USA if your poor, so its obviously a motivation to lift your income or take the risk of being murdered by the state, after you've spent a few years on death row as Bubba's teenage squeeze.

There are only a few US states that have capital punishments. :)

[werz]

Even if there were only 1 state with capital punishment it would still reflect on the whole country, as Mississippi and its race laws gave the whole country a bad reputation, in the 60s.

[werz]

I dont know the statistics but, murder would be 1 of the least repeated crimes, so any arguement that it stops them doing it again is not really valid, and a good psychiatric evaluation should reveal a psychopath, maybe they should be done at high school and root out the likely cases, even I know that a child who torments animals is a good candidate for a dangerous adult.

[ukulele]

a good psychiatric evaluation should reveal a psychopath, maybe they should be done at high school and root out the likely cases,

Agreed and they should start with the W's. :r

[BoilerMan]

Originally posted by ukulele
Agreed and they should start with the W's. :r

ROFLMAO :) I like the way you think ukulele :t

[werz]

let them start anywhere they like, so long as everyone is done, the anti social behaviour maybe picked up and save a lot of grief, anyone who knows a victim of violent crime always feels shocked and angry that it happened, its the only crime which should result in a prison sentence.

[ukulele]

Originally posted by werz
let them start anywhere they like, so long as everyone is done, the anti social behaviour maybe picked up and save a lot of grief, anyone who knows a victim of violent crime always feels shocked and angry that it happened, its the only crime which should result in a prison sentence.

You social democrats really are scary. Now you want to imprison minors because some bonehead with a shingle on his wall decided they might be an a social miscreant some day. But what ever you do, don't execute them for chopping off their grandmother's head. Do you realize how stupid this makes you guys look?

[sm8000]

Originally posted by Rabbitrunner51
I don't believe the woman in NewZealand are so ugly....beauty is in the eye of the beholder...

Ummmm....not New Zealand. Newfoundland, the easternmost province in Canada.

Close, though.

[j.m@talk]

I had a Kiwi chick once...........:p


She ran off :rolleyes: {Shock} :t

[ukulele]

Originally posted by sm8000
Ummmm....not New Zealand. Newfoundland, the easternmost province in Canada.

Close, though.

Hairy arm pits and strong backs them girls. They are great for chopping wood all winter. :D

[Rabbitrunner51]

Actually..I don't much prefer hairy chicks.

Once I had this girlfriend..who was very good looking ..but refused to shave any part of her body..including her legs and might i add other areas as well and the problem is it creates a not too pleasant odor...and so.....I ditched her when she told me she was not changing for anybody( shaving)
Its a shame as her dad was a doctor and she was quite wealthy..but no shave.. no me

It might just be an exageration that all new Foundland girls are hairy....

Of course I never met one...so...?

What was this topic about again? Hairy women?
:eek: :eek: :( ;)

[ukulele]

:rolleyes: Good Grief! I hope nobody takes me seriously here. :p

[Rabbitrunner51]

Actually....I suppose your joke was well taken...but in all honesty....i can never tell sometimes if someone is serious or getting in a good jest...

I have a very sarcastic sense of humour...combined with a very serious side..and you might have put one past me....

It was a good laugh though...nice one..

And...for those who have never been out in the real world...there are hairy chicks...who need to shave more than their armpits...:D :x ;)

[j.m@talk]

Originally posted by Rabbitrunner51
Actually..I don't much prefer hairy chicks.



Hairy women=Fire Risk ....... Noooooooooooooo :D

[Vampiel]

Originally posted by j.m@talk
Hairy women=Fire Risk ....... Noooooooooooooo :D

HAHAHAHA... That was good.:x