Click to See Complete Forum and Search --> : Meet the Indian who took on Stephen Hawking
full story --> http://us.rediff.com/news/2004/aug/03hole.htm
For over 30 years Hawking and his followers were perpetuating the theory that black holes -- resulting from gravitational collapse of massive stars -- destroy everything that falls into them preventing even light or information to escape.
Mitra, four years ago, in a controversial paper in the reputed journal, Foundations of Physics Letters, showed that Hawking's theory was flawed. He proved black holes couldn't exist because their formation and existence flouted Einstein's general theory of relativity.
Except a handful, the majority of mainstream scientists dismissed Mitra's conclusions even though, till now, no scientist has contradicted him in writing. Mitra invited several notable black hole theorists including Hawking and Jayant Narlikar of India to criticise his work but no one replied.
:eek:
Tech^salvager
08-03-2004, 03:25 AM
Never thought hawkings was that great at all. This thing seems to happen alot in history where someone rivials against a well know theory and gets put down allthough they might be\or are correct. Like when the first person found the earth is not the center of the universe.
Torlok2002
08-03-2004, 03:34 AM
...Naturally, Mitra now feels vindicated following Hawkings' own admission two weeks ago at a conference in Dublin, Ireland, that there isn't a black hole 'in the absolute sense'.
In essence, Hawking's 'new' black holes never quite become the kind that gobble up everything. Instead, they keep emitting radiation for a long time -- exactly what Mitra showed in his paper...
...A black hole is characterised by an imaginary boundary called the 'event horizon' that shuts everything within. But, in 1976 Hawking introduced quantum mechanics into the problem and claimed that black holes do radiate energy -- although at a low rate -- and ultimately vanish into nothingness.
The vanishing act, however, destroys all the trapped information as well - directly conflicting with the laws of quantum physics that say that information can never be completely wiped out. This is the 'information loss paradox' associated with black holes that, in a way, was created by Hawking's own work...
http://sify.com/news/othernews/fullstory.php?id=13535615
Hawkings did eventually admit this. All this means is that there is no event horizon in these "black holes". It doesnt mean that these things we call black holes dont exist.
Tech^salvager
08-03-2004, 03:41 AM
Originally posted by Torlok2002
Hawkings did eventually admit this. All this means is that there is no event horizon in these "black holes". It doesnt mean that these things we call black holes dont exist.
Mitra, four years ago, in a controversial paper in the reputed journal, Foundations of Physics Letters, showed that Hawkings theory was flawed. He proved black holes couldn't exist because their formation and existence flouted Einstein's general theory of relativity.
Torlok so you are saying the could exist.
While he proved they couldn't exist.
So whats up?
Torlok2002
08-03-2004, 04:06 AM
it means he redefined the properties of black holes. If we found out that all rhinos had a pouch like a kangaroo, we would still call them rhinos correct?
its a pointless dicussion, if we read the theories presented by both of them, we would'nt understand them, so how can hope to add anything about who's right and why. If either of them is, for that matter, perhaps next year someone else will have a new theory, because thats all they are.
Strawbs
08-03-2004, 04:51 AM
I will never take this kind of "Scientific Fact" as such until it can be physically proven.
The reality is that there is no more evidence to prove or disprove the existence of Black Holes, Quantum Physics, etc. than there is to prove or disprove the events set out in the Bible. The basis for Universal Physics: Men create their own interpretation of the Universe, then invent new words to describe that interpretation and preach it in schools as though it were fact.
I've noticed in the past 20 yrs. that more and more of the Scientific "facts" I was taught in school (I still have an atlas depicting the Solar System from the late '60's) are being erroded away to what amounts to "Biblical" revelations ...why not just cut to the chase and accept the Bible's events from the off and stop wasting my taxes.
If there is such a thing as Black Holes, you can bet your last £$€ (or whatever ...) it was described in the Bible first, but was known by another name. Go forth from this place in peace, my son.
Pastor Strawbs. :p
You sure its not meant to be 'go forth and multiply' I've just been reading the abortion thread.
Vampiel
08-03-2004, 06:52 AM
I've noticed in the past 20 yrs. that more and more of the Scientific "facts" I was taught in school (I still have an atlas depicting the Solar System from the late '60's) are being erroded away to what amounts to "Biblical" revelations ...why not just cut to the chase and accept the Bible's events from the off and stop wasting my taxes.
Could you give me one example?
I cant think of anything you can take at face value from the bible, but plenty of unbelieveable stuff in their.
Strawbs
08-03-2004, 09:50 AM
Originally posted by Vampiel
Could you give me one example? No!
Strawbs
08-03-2004, 10:01 AM
Originally posted by werz
I cant think of anything you can take at face value from the bible, but plenty of unbelieveable stuff in their. Get a hold of a "King James V(5th)" version, read the book of Revelations and compare it to what is happening in the world today!
fleecaf
08-03-2004, 10:12 AM
People trying to quantify the (at present) the unquantifyable....keeps them busy I suppose :p
fleecaf
08-03-2004, 10:14 AM
Paris in the the Spring:rolleyes:
Strawbs
08-03-2004, 10:25 AM
Originally posted by fleecaf
People trying to quantify the (at present) the unquantifyable....keeps them busy I suppose :p It's costing us Billions ...nay ...Trillions to keep these ppl busy! :eek: can I get a refund please. :(
Vampiel
08-03-2004, 05:03 PM
Originally posted by Strawbs
Get a hold of a "King James V(5th)" version, read the book of Revelations and compare it to what is happening in the world today!
Ive allready read the bible 3 times. I see no revelation. The middle ages were much more 'evil' than today if you know your history. It just gets flashed across your TV now a days.
Strawbs
08-03-2004, 05:11 PM
Originally posted by Vampiel
Ive allready read the bible 3 times. I see no revelation. The middle ages were much more 'evil' than today if you know your history. It just gets flashed across your TV now a days. 3 times! :rolleyes:
Vampiel
08-03-2004, 05:16 PM
Sure I will read it, but not right this second but I will get back to you with my opinion.
I have read it three times the king james version (not sure wich version of the king james version of the version that that version came from), but I will post back after I zoom in and read it b/c I sure cant read it the way it is in the picture.
Strawbs
08-03-2004, 05:22 PM
but I will get back to you with my opinionDon't bother.
Prushka
08-03-2004, 05:37 PM
Originally posted by Sun
full story --> http://us.rediff.com/news/2004/aug/03hole.htm
:eek:
Sun...Thanks...interesting
Scientific theory in general has lead to much verifiable information for an incease in the quality of life and that's a good thing. All in the hands of the user, whether good/bad.
But theory is just that, and should be OPEN for reinterpretation and alternate views, when credible.
Happy Joe
08-03-2004, 10:41 PM
A theory is just that a theory (basicly an educated guess supported by available facts and mathematic conjecture)... it is not fact and cannot be proven. It can only be disproven and either disgarded (to be replaced by a new theory that better fits the new knowlege) or modified (this is how we gain knowlege, make progress and learn). Yeah... verily, it is the basis of the entire scientific method.
Revalations is an ok peice of literature (better than many present day stories) but I'm afraid that any who treat it (or any other religious text) as fact are also going to be faced with an argument eventually, as religious texts (like theories) cannot be proven (and unlike theories the true believers will often chose to ignore facts rather than alow their belief structure to be shown as flawed).
Just and opinion (with a smattering of fact), and worth almost what you paid for it...
Enjoy!
Vampiel
08-04-2004, 03:25 AM
Originally posted by Strawbs
Don't bother.
I see you are using half quotes again.
Strawbs
08-04-2004, 03:48 AM
Originally posted by Vampiel
I see you are using half quotes again. I didn't attribute it to anybody in particular did I?
Stop spoiling for a fight.
Picard
08-04-2004, 05:24 PM
What Hawking said originally was that when a black hole dies(yes, they eventually break down and spew matter and energy), it destroys evidence of how it was formed, nothing escapes it - What radiates from it as it dies, does not reveal how the black hole came to be. What he has changed is that he now believes that this is not correct, that data can be collected from what radiates out of the dying black hole, not that black holes don't exist.
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