Paying to Play!!!

[seanieboy77]

How lame is it that now for some online games you have to pay to play the games online. I mean for me it kills the fun. Also if you a noraml teenager like me you get about 5 bucks a week if you have a allowance and you run out of money very quickly. Anyone else have any thoughts about paying to play?

-BTY

[Tweb]

Several thing need to be considered.

1: The game hosts needs to pay 4 the server.
2: The game developers need to keep programers around to fix bugs or upgrade the game.
3: Administrating the hole thing.

Find games you can play on line free, Tribe I & II are free for DL an is free to play online. Tribe Vengence ( III ) is coming out soon an will be free on line play. There are many other games that can be played free on line.

[Vampiel]

I think he is referring more to MMORPG's. From his avatar, its seems WOW would be the game in question.

Well blizzard is just following the trend. Their is a little more justification for MMORPG's to charge a monthly fee b/c the only servers that are available have massive amounts of people on them so they need to be very expesive servers that run them. They also have to pay a huge monthly fee for the bandwidth. That being said they allready make millions on just selling the game, and I dont think the price should be as high as it is. If they recieved $2 from every person that would be more than enough to cover there costs. So $5 per person they would still me making out good. Since they can raise it to $10-$15/month b/c to alot of people thats not alot of money, they do.

It's not like quake or counter strike were the nation is peppered with personal servers that they dont have to pay for that you can log onto and play.

Not to mention blizzard has allready proved that just selling the games alone can make you millions even if you have to upkeep massive servers.

It's called battle-net

[germanNiklas]

well its true specialy for younger people its **** im 16 and i dont have THAT much money also no credit card blablabla

but i think WoW will be the first MMORPG ill get it just looks amazing

[chubtub]

If it is a MMORPG then there is the age old argument of how much it costs to see a movie vs how much per month for a game. You can spend tons of time on a game for only 15 a month.

[seanieboy77]

Ya with younger people its really hard to keep money. And I know what battle-net is I play all the time. But I guess your right I have never played any of the online games with just one sever so everyone can play at once.

-BTY

[Vampiel]

You missed my point. Blizzard has allready proved that you dont need to charge a monthly fee to make millions off a game, even if you have to update and maintain expensive servers every month to support the game and updates.

Battle-Net is that example, they DO NOT NEED to charge you a monthly fee to make a significant profit b/c that comes from the $50 that you pay for the game. They just want to make even more money so they want you to add them to your bill list.

Battle-Net is updated and maintained by Blizzard and they dont charge you a penny. They run how many games on battle net? So the server system is probobly the most exstensive of any others, even everquest.

There's nothing wrong with wanting to make money I might add, but there is a fine line between making money and just being plain greedy.

[tantone]

Since gaming is starting to take hold in more wide-ranging age groups, socio-ecnomic groups, and genders, than it used to, I think pay-to-play is just a way for those distributers to cash in a bit more on the upswing.

Ah...good ol' American capitalism hard at work.

I wouldn't pay to play their stuff though. I only want to be charged once: either at the register or online. But not both.

[seanieboy77]

So what do you think Blizzard is plain greedy or making money?

-BTY

[tantone]

Wouldn't wanting to make more money imply greed?

[Vampiel]

They make enough money as it is. THOUGH I might add that a Vivendi Universal Games owns blizzard and they are in big time debt.

I think its more greed though b/c blizzard tryed to start charging LAN's to use their games which is ridiculous.

[Benssax]

Doesn't matter to me i'm gonna be playin!!!!:t

[CrazyCrusher]

simple short answer NO!!!! i would never pay for play, not on any game, not even HL2 Or D3 not in a million years. after people start paying for it, you will see a huge rise in pay for play, yet if people dont waste there time and money on it, im sure it wouldnt hit of well and then they might not do the pay for play, but as long as people are paying they will still charge.

[PacNW CE]

Yall view Bilzzard as evil because they want to charge you for the work they do. If you are willing to pay, then they are simply tapping a market that they hadn't previously identified.

BTW, Battle.net was built for WCII, SC and Diablo I and II. The demands on a server for any of the games from that generation is less than that for a modern MMORPG.

If you are into MMORPGs, then you will pay to play. Evercrack set the bar, all other games are simply following suit.

[Vampiel]

Not true, battle-net was designed to support blizzards online games, including future realeases. I highly doubt their is a game server system that exists that is larger. Why? Here is a list of games that runs off of battle-net.

1. Warcraft 2 <-- top 10 seller
2. Warcraft 3 <-- top 10 seller
3. Diablo 2 <-- top 10 seller
4. Diablo <-- top 10 seller
5. Starcraft <-- top 10 seller for almost I dont know how long

Plus all of the expansions.

All of them are pretty much ALL TIME best sellers, far outselling games such as everquest. There are HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS of people that play on them every day.

If running over 5 of the biggest selling games in the world doesnt make it an exrememly expensive server system to maintain, I dont know what will (esp. not the everquest servers).

btw all everycrack did was take an rpg and turn it into a big server with lots of people on it, it was common sense, not really ground breaking if you ask me. If their werent lots of other people on it, and it was single player it would be pretty boring.

[germanNiklas]

dont care, i will pay for WoW
but i think the servers are so huge that they need some money

[AdamST]

I wont be paying. $15 a month can be put to better use...like beer.

[NJEnviroguy]

I dont find a problem with it at all. The video game is an industry now. To believe that everything should be free is an old principle that maybe applied 15 or so years ago.

MMORPGs require excessive amounts of maintenance, updates, and sheer man hours/power to keep afloat. Do you think anything on the backend is free for these companies? Do you think they get free tech support by companies like Sun, etc? Hell no. They may be able to negotiate lump sum fees or retainers, but its still an expediture.

Do you think the developers work for free? They have mouths to feed and dreams to fulfill. Why do you think a lot of the same developers are shuffled around from project to project? Because there are "good" developers and "bad" developers. And who wants to pay for a bad one when they can invest more money in a good one that will put out some great work.

Customer service reps work for free? lol, hell no. Telecomm companies work for free? Office space is free?

Point being, games like MMORPGs require a lot of backend support. And so they do need to charge the money. OK, well "Why do they have to charge so much?"

How are companies supposed to advance themselves without a large endowment to support their endevours? Every company wants a profit. You shouldn't be in business if you have a different outlook. Profit means more to a company than anything else. You will find very few companies out there surviving for too long without making a profit.

Otherwise, some developers are let go. Server maintenance is sparse and all of a sudden your once dreamy fantasy/sci-fi world is filled with unresolved issues, poor content updates, and just becomes an overall POS.

So, you don't like paying for this form of entertainment....doesn't make it evil and it surely shouldn't come as a suprise when 99.99999999% of the other industries out there are all profit driven.

Sorry to hear you don't have the money or are too young to get the money. If you really want it that bad, hopefully something will come your way or do what you can to get it (within the law hopefully)...just dont trash it because you can't have it.

/rant off

[Vampiel]

"To believe that everything should be free is an old principle that maybe applied 15 or so years ago."
It's not free you pay $50 for it.

MMORPGs require excessive amounts of maintenance, updates, and sheer man hours/power to keep afloat

Not true. They like to make you think that, but its just as time consuming as any other big release, but dont think they do not goto sleep at night.

How many updates did diablo2, warcraft3 etc... have? As I stated before BATTLE-NET is MASSIVELY BIGGER than any MMORPG and you have to PAY to buy the game (its not free) and they still made millions w/o charging a monthly fee.

So, you don't like paying for this form of entertainment....doesn't make it evil and it surely shouldn't come as a suprise when 99.99999999% of the other industries out there are all profit driven.

Id put it closer to 95% but true. As I stated before, they dont have to charge a monthly fee to make millions MMORPG or no MMORPG.

It's called greed and the more people that pay, the more games will start charging, itll leak into 1st person shooters, and every internet game, so just keep paying and soon it will add up to your paying for every internet game out there "b/c they have to update them and maintain the servers".

(if they made it right the first time like theyre supposed to they wouldnt have to fix the bugs)

[seanieboy77]

I think SC was best seller for 2 years but stayed on the top ten for about 5 all together. :t

-BTY

[richard_cocks]

Originally posted by Vampiel

Not true. They like to make you think that, but its just as time consuming as any other big release, but dont think they do not goto sleep at night.


Ah, but, with MMORPGs, the issue is that they have to run their own servers, and need to recoup the money on that. With FPS games, other individuals or companies run the gaming servers, so it doesn't cost them anything, hence MMORPGs are pay to play.

[Vampiel]

You missed my point. Battle-Net is the same way as MMORPG's and they dont charge a monthly fee.

[Razielian]

I can pick my nose and eat it.

[richard_cocks]

Originally posted by Vampiel
You missed my point. Battle-Net is the same way as MMORPG's and they dont charge a monthly fee.

battle.net are just a match-making service like WON.net, they do not host the actual games.

[PacNW CE]

Battle net = many users playing one on one
MMORPG = many users simultaneously playing against eachother.

[Vampiel]

Originally posted by richard_cocks
battle.net are just a match-making service like WON.net, they do not host the actual games.

Yes they do.

http://archive.salon.com/tech/feature/2002/04/18/bnetd/

Battle.net's popularity has been one of its great drawbacks. Frequent crashes and slow response times due to a huge crush of players -- especially right after the release of a new game -- can often make Battle.net an unpleasant experience. The technical problems are exacerbated by social malfunctions

PacNW CE you are mistaken also. Diablo2 is basically an MMORPG.
This is what happened when some people tryed to make it so you COULD host your own server.

With bnetd's code anyone could set up their own server for playing Blizzard games, and since the code was open to the general public

They got sued.

[Vampiel]

http://www.insidemacgames.com/news/story.php?ArticleID=2558
Blizzard has released a status update on their servers, noting they have unfortunately been under attack as of late, once again. Both the web site server and the Battle.net system appear to be targeted by the offenders. If your Diablo II net game seems to be lagging more than usual

[NJEnviroguy]

Not true. They like to make you think that, but its just as time consuming as any other big release, but dont think they do not goto sleep at night.

Last time I checked, more resources are dumped in post release MMORPGs than any other genre. I never said they don't get sleep. Why do I have this feeling like you think I'm some idiotic consumer that blindly shells out my money b/c some big-bad greedy corporation says I have to.

I chose to buy the game, I chose to pay the monthly subscription, I chose to play a MMORPG over some shallow fps (even though I play those too), I chose to support this particular industry because I believe they are creating something great here. So, just for clarification, through every stage in the game, it was my choosing, as was everyone else that plays one of those games. There's no one holding a gun to my head saying I have to pay $50 upfront and then $15 a month so I can run around and do whatever the f* I want in a virtual world.


It's called greed and the more people that pay, the more games will start charging, itll leak into 1st person shooters, and every internet game, so just keep paying and soon it will add up to your paying for every internet game out there "b/c they have to update them and maintain the servers".

(if they made it right the first time like theyre supposed to they wouldnt have to fix the bugs)

Whoa....you mean to tell me that in the past 5 years of every type of video game genre out there, the games that come out are exactly perfect, need to bug hunting?! No extensive balance tweaking?! No glitch resolutions?! No change in code to combat hackers?!

Come on now....every game out there is in need of constant upgrading. Video game releases seem more a degree of how much doesn't need correction these days.

And I believe that complex systems, that you would find in a MMORPG do warrant monthly fees. Like I said before, because you don't want to spend money like some of us do on video games is fine. Just don't point the finger at us and say we're the cause of all this so-called "injustice" in the video game industry.

Ask any modder out there if they wouldn't mind making a couple bucks on their work and I guarantee you they would say "yes." Do they do that now?! No, because most modders do it out of love for the game on their own time as a hobby. If I was so good at it and a company wanted to hire me I would be all over that in a heartbeat. Oh, but wait....the company can't afford that because they charge next to nothing for their product.

[richard_cocks]

Originally posted by Vampiel
Yes they do.


For their MMORPGs like diablo2, then sure, it's more than matchmaking, but for starcraft, it's the actual PLAYERS that host the game and thus take most the bandwidth etc.

But diablo2 is back to MMORPGs, which don't really count, but if they're providing free MMORPG servers then good for them, but they will be making a loss from it.

[Vampiel]

NJEnviroguy, I dont think you are some idiotic consumer that blindly shells out my money b/c some big-bad greedy corporation says I have to

If you want to pay a monthly fee b/c they will supposedly make a loss if they dont (yea right, like diablo2 is making a loss) thats fine with me.

I was just pointing out the fact that they DO NOT need to charge a monthly fee to make tons of money on a game. Most people think they do, and that is what I was trying to clarify.

The best example is Diablo2, and no they are not losing money from Diablo2, quit the opposite, and people are still buying the game.

I personally think they should charge something, but not the rate they are charging. $50/year like xbox charges would be more than a fair price.

[richard_cocks]

In the case of everquest, sony online get the subs and sort the servers, that's different to the publishers.

And yes, it's making money off people, but is not unnecessarily greedy.

[germanNiklas]

well comparing diablo2 and WoW, we dont know yet.....

i think WoW is MUCH MUCH MUCH bigger then diablo2 so it maybe needs alot more so they need to charge a bit.....

dont think so really but who knows :confused: :)

[excelscior]

I've always payed $10.00/month on a voluntary basis to play Unreal Tournament Classic. I am now a former UT player ever since playing City of Heroes! However that was the beta version. The retail version coming out in a few days will cost $50.00 and $15.00/month. I will buy it and pay the monthly fee. I have a cable connection so lag times are a thing of the past. However, I have many friends that still have 56K modems. So they are the ones that need the extra boosts to stay in the game. So long as the developers and Admins. keep their end of the bargain and keep the game fun with minimal glitches. I really don't mind paying the fee. MMORPG's really are fun and take alotta your time. Personally they keep me outta bad relationships:D. On the other hand, I don't smoke, drink or do any drugs or have a gambling addiction. So keeping me entertained is dirt cheap! A girlfriend + dates, weekend trips, dinner, gifts=alot more than $15.00/month. So looking at it from my point of view I economize a great deal!!! As for being young or 16 years old. I'm 40 now and I had my first job for 2 years shining shoes at the age of 13 years old. If pc's were around back then, I sure would pay $5.00-$7.00 per to play. As long as it is fun, why not??? After all, isn't that what Hollywood depends on....our movie dollars? That's million of dollars worth of entertainment. I just happen to spend mine on MMORPG's City Of Heroes!!!! Laterz.:t

[germanNiklas]

Originally posted by excelscior
On the other hand, I don't smoke, drink or do any drugs or have a gambling addiction. So keeping me entertained is dirt cheap! A girlfriend + dates, weekend trips, dinner, gifts=alot more than $15.00/month. So looking at it from my point of view I economize a great deal!!! As for being young or 16 years old. I'm 40 now and I had my first job for 2 years shining shoes at the age of 13 years old. If pc's were around back then, I sure would pay $5.00-$7.00 per to play. As long as it is fun, why not??? After all, isn't that what Hollywood depends on....our movie dollars? That's million of dollars worth of entertainment. I just happen to spend mine on MMORPG's City Of Heroes!!!! Laterz.:t

true
oh and i have a job
paper boy :-@ :)

[richard_cocks]

Originally posted by excelscior
I've always payed $10.00/month on a voluntary basis to play Unreal Tournament Classic.

But you can get it for that price as a one off payment :confused: