What do you reckon it the best card to buy at the moment to play online multiplaying games and serious single players (don't forget that Doom 3 is coming out this year so it needs to handle it!)
Nvidia or ATI chipset?
9800Pro or 5900XT???
I had a 9800Pro (faulty being sent back) and wondering what's the best card to get in that price range......
:confused:
Vitalka
03-29-2004, 03:05 PM
I need a new video card too, but i'm waiting till all the serious games come out; like Doom3 or Half Life 2. Do the same. Wait.
Bigjakkstaffa
03-29-2004, 03:21 PM
Radeon 9800 Pro at the moment without spending silly money on the uber-top end (but not much faster) 9800XT
--Jakk:t
Vampiel
03-29-2004, 03:36 PM
9800pro if you have to have it now, but as Vitalka suggested I would wait a little while, NVIDIA is going to release their next cards soon and they are supposedly going to blow away anything out now. I would just get another 9800pro if you are going to get it now. I recommend the MADE BY ATI cards not the powered by ati cards.
Dark Sonic
03-29-2004, 06:46 PM
Stick with the 9800 Pro. The 9800 XT is just an overclocked version.
AllGamer
03-29-2004, 06:52 PM
9800 Pro :t
the 9800 XT is too over priced :(
_Mystical_Night
03-29-2004, 10:07 PM
ATI Radeon 9800 Pro OEM's can be purchased for as low as $200
DozerLYP
03-30-2004, 12:06 AM
Originally posted by Vampiel
9800pro if you have to have it now, but as Vitalka suggested I would wait a little while, NVIDIA is going to release their next cards soon and they are supposedly going to blow away anything out now. I would just get another 9800pro if you are going to get it now. I recommend the MADE BY ATI cards not the powered by ati cards.
do you know when they are suppose to release that new NVIDIA, or do you have a link for it?
i'm not a big fan of ATI
all i need to finish this PC i'm building is Crosair twinx 1024m pc3200 and the video card, and i'm about to get GeForce FX 5950 ultra.:r
Yoshi
03-30-2004, 01:25 AM
Well I heard April 12
DozerLYP
03-30-2004, 01:40 AM
and what it is called?
Direct1
03-30-2004, 01:56 AM
9800Pro or 5900XT???
Be careful with the naming of the cards.
XT for ATI card = top of the line.
XT for nVidia cards = not top of the line. Their 5900 out-performs the 5900XT in most benchmarks.
SE = Stinks for both companies.
The ATI 9800 Pro beats the 5900 and 5900XT in every test (except Quake and X2).
so Vampiel you're saying that i should get a cheap video card for now and wait till NVIDIA releast it's new card, i could do that but i realy need to know when and what they are calling it, so i can look it up or someone as a link to it will be nice. :D
neverwhere
03-30-2004, 12:07 PM
nCrapia just plain stinks. I would (and still will) buy an ATI card over them any day. Just stick with the 9800 Pro since the XT is, as has been stated before, not that great of an improvement over the pro to justify its price.
Doraemon
03-30-2004, 12:24 PM
Originally posted by DozerLYP
so Vampiel you're saying that i should get a cheap video card for now and wait till NVIDIA releast it's new card, i could do that but i realy need to know when and what they are calling it, so i can look it up or someone as a link to it will be nice. :D
9800Pro is a rave review card (apart from mine - RMA'd as overheating), Advisable to buy the Arctic VGA Silencer Cooler for it?
mobo57
03-30-2004, 02:04 PM
Absolutly buy the Arctic Cooler Silencer. Best cooler for that card. I put one on my 9800 pro couple weeks ago. Went from being able to oc 410 at 750 to 450 at 760. Great addition, quiet at both speeds, and great price.
The first release of the new cards are all gonna be the low end cards. And the upper end cards are not going to be that much better then the 9800 pro or xt, and much more expensive. Many of the features of these new cards won't be utilized by much of the exhisting and games coming out in the near term.
I'd go the pro and wait a year or so for second or third generation of PCI express cards are out. THen you might see a significant increase in performance for your $$.
Doraemon
03-30-2004, 02:15 PM
Originally posted by mobo57
Absolutly buy the Arctic Cooler Silencer. Best cooler for that card. I put one on my 9800 pro couple weeks ago. Went from being able to oc 410 at 750 to 450 at 760. Great addition, quiet at both speeds, and great price.
The first release of the new cards are all gonna be the low end cards. And the upper end cards are not going to be that much better then the 9800 pro or xt, and much more expensive. Many of the features of these new cards won't be utilized by much of the exhisting and games coming out in the near term.
I'd go the pro and wait a year or so for second or third generation of PCI express cards are out. THen you might see a significant increase in performance for your $$.
Thanks for your post. I was thinking of waiting for the next batch of Nvidia cards but they will always be something new round the corner so one can't just sit back so will ask for a return 9800Pro.
mobo57
03-30-2004, 02:39 PM
And get the Arctic Cooler.... I put a thermal sensor on the back of my card. Stock cooler temps were 65c idle to 85 c + when oc'd and running 3d mark, sometimes spiking to 90c!
Now when oc'd at 450 and in 3d mark, temps are NEVER above 60c. The best 24$ I ever spent. I think ATI should make it standard equipment on their cards.
Vampiel
03-30-2004, 02:45 PM
April 13th is supposed to be the release date. Keep in mind that when a card first comes out it can cost $300-$400. Although the current cards will come down in price as well. Here are some links for ATI and NVIDIA's roadmap....
http://www.3dchipset.com/#979 (scroll down and it has a link to both roadmaps)
A little information about the new cards...
http://www.elitebastards.com/page.php?pageid=4040&head=1&comments=1
This is what NVIDIA had to say about their new card.
if we’re not a lot more than 2 times faster I’m going to be very disappointed
mobo57
03-30-2004, 03:31 PM
I think somebody is going to be very disappointed! But marketing shirts are always saying things they later forget. Even with core at 500 and memory at 1000, and additional pipelines, I can't believe that they will get even 30% more out of the agp version. As to 300 to 400$ for new releases, the 9800 xt was selling out here initially for 479$, today at 379$. At the same time the pro version was at 219$. I bought my pro when it first came out at 449$. With the new memory chips in these cards, I'd think that when they come out it will be in the 450 to 550$ range.
Bottom line is that the reason for PCI express and video is that AGP is getting to max ability (among other things pci related). In a year, a 16X pci express card will probably be 2 to 3x the speed of a 9800 pro.
I say get a pro at 200$, save the 300$, wait a year and get a AMD FX53 for 250$, PCI express mobo for 130$, and blow the rest on the best card then. Maybe then you'll see a double in your fps.
And finally, the Pro on a decent system, delivers great graphics and frame rates, even under the most demanding games. Like paying a bundle to buy a 64 bit cpu right now, why If you don't have to? There are no games now and none coming out soon that will be able to take full advantage of these new cards. And when they do, those cards will probably cost half of what they will at first release.
Disclaimer: all projected prices are WAG's.
Vampiel
03-30-2004, 03:48 PM
Originally posted by mobo57
There are no games now and none coming out soon that will be able to take full advantage of these new cards.
Disclaimer: all projected prices are WAG's.
I was only reminding them of how much a new video card costs, sometimes they are not over $400 and sometimes they are $580 so ok lemme re-do my est. of new cards $300-$600 price range. Also the current prices for cards will go down, so if you wait 2 weeks and buy a 9800pro youll prob. save $30-$40.
Also you jumped the gun a little on the quoted above statement. Far Cry supports 64-bit and trust me, it will use every ounce of your video card and CPU and take advantage of anything your video card can shell out.
It laggs on my card a bit sometimes and I have an fx5900, 2600+ XP. I dont even have all the details turned up and AA off. Im sure DOOM3 and many near future realeases will follow suit.
Bigjakkstaffa
03-30-2004, 04:05 PM
I dont think Far Cry's quite as hefty as your makign out, yes there are extensiosn in there for 64-bit CPU's and it looks like it will be taking use of some PS3.0 elements, however, im currently playing it at high deatail, low AF and no AA on my R9800 Pro and im easily hitting over 85FPS in some areas, with no slowdown whatsoever (*oading times are a bit dog mind you, but im blaming that on my HDD atm). Indeed, i was expecting the new DX9 titles such as Far Cry, Doom3 and HL2 to absoloutley slaughter the performance of the first generation of DX9 hardware cards (even the R9800/FX5900U), however if Far Cry is setting a trend, then i dont think we'll have much to worry about until DX9.1 or similar
--Jakk:t
mobo57
03-30-2004, 04:07 PM
Far Cry supports 64-bit
On what os? Got to have a 64 bit os to run in that mode. Release date for Win XP 64? That means a 64 bit cpu, mobo, etc. Unless he has one of those, ain't gonna happen. Unless Linux?
ATI and NVIDIA allready have drivers released for it.
Also Bigjakkstaffa run the game in 1024x768 32-bit AA on high and everything at very high details and look how nice it looks and how slow it will run.:D
mobo57
03-30-2004, 04:57 PM
http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/...ads/upgrade.asp
Unless you have a 64 bit system, don't mean nothing as you can't run it. I am assuming he don't. And I agree with Bigjakk.
Lesson One:
Video card manu's work with game developers.
Lesson Two:
visa versa.
Lesson Three:
Both are in business to make a profit.
Lesson Four:
Both want you to buy their newest product, regardless of the level of increased benefits over the last generation.
Lessor Five:
See lesson three.
Up to a year ago I bought all the latest and most up to date hardware (IP attorney, computer hardware and computer geek). Now, I watch and wait. Lot of stuff happening out there now. It's going to take a while for all the dust to settle.
In the mean time, my system, 3200 XP, 1 gig Corsair C2Pt 3200, and 9800 Pro, has yet to be brought to it's knees by any game. And yes, it is behind the times, at least according to ATI, Nvidia, AMD, Intel, and whoever else wants me to buy their product.
But guess what.... It kicks A**!
Bigjakkstaffa
03-30-2004, 05:06 PM
Originally posted by Vampiel
http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/64bit/downloads/upgrade.asp
Also Bigjakkstaffa run the game in 1024x768 32-bit AA on high and everything at very high details and look how nice it looks and how slow it will run.:D
Thats what i am doing, c'ept for the AA. From what ive read, when pushing the limits of detail its additional memory and CPU cycles that help Far Cry out the most rather than the probelm being the graphics cards being pushed to their limits, indeed, i sare say that for some time yet we will see that games are still not ready to take push the performance limits and strain the current crop of high end cards, nevermind tomorrows.
--Jakk:t
Doraemon
03-30-2004, 05:09 PM
Originally posted by mobo57
And get the Arctic Cooler.... I put a thermal sensor on the back of my card. Stock cooler temps were 65c idle to 85 c + when oc'd and running 3d mark, sometimes spiking to 90c!
Now when oc'd at 450 and in 3d mark, temps are NEVER above 60c. The best 24$ I ever spent. I think ATI should make it standard equipment on their cards.
I agree with you that ATI bring out a card where they over heat so they should provide a better cooler heat sink with the card. Shame on ATI!!!
Vampiel
03-30-2004, 05:16 PM
I never buy top of the line. mobo57 if your system is behind the times, mine must be a dinasour. I was only giving recommendations and prices, I wasnt trying to say buy top of the line, I was only giving information for Doraemon to decide what is best to do. If Doraemon waits 2 weeks then maybe buy the better card, or get the 9800pro for maybe 30-40bux cheaper. Or spend a little more and get it now.
Doraemon
03-30-2004, 05:18 PM
Originally posted by Bigjakkstaffa
Thats what i am doing, c'ept for the AA. From what ive read, when pushing the limits of detail its additional memory and CPU cycles that help Far Cry out the most rather than the probelm being the graphics cards being pushed to their limits, indeed, i sare say that for some time yet we will see that games are still not ready to take push the performance limits and strain the current crop of high end cards, nevermind tomorrows.
--Jakk:t
Yeah the next gen cards will blow away the current one's out there, that's life huh! But the price will be too expensive for me to buy and the current good 128meg cards are adequate for todays games - I reckon they will still run Doom3 with no problems.
SO - Do you reckon the best card at the mo is to replace my **** 9800Pro card with a replacement and slap it in a arctic cooler???
Also what 9800Pro 128mb is the best one to get? Powercolour? Sapphire - So it needs to say powered by ATI or made by ATI or something? How do I know that? Most just say powered by ATI!
ARGH!!!
Doraemon
03-30-2004, 05:20 PM
Originally posted by Vampiel
I never buy top of the line. mobo57 if your system is behind the times, mine must be a dinasour. I was only giving recommendations and prices, I wasnt trying to say buy top of the line, I was only giving information for Doraemon to decide what is best to do.
And I respect your comments :t
You have been a gr8 help, as well as others but I just need a decision to help me as it sounds as tho u know ur stuff and I hope to be as good as you guys when I jump into the world of work!!! PLease?? See my post before this one...
Vampiel
03-30-2004, 05:21 PM
Get the MADE BY ATI cards. They are made by ATI and usually are better. Although recently more man. have started making ATI cards and I havent really kept up which is supposed to be the best, but it's always a good bet to get the made by ati card.
When it says powered by ATI that means another man. like powercolor made it and not ATI.
The 9800pro would be the best to get.
Doraemon
03-30-2004, 05:23 PM
Originally posted by Vampiel
Get the MADE BY ATI cards. They are made by ATI and usually are better. Although recently more man. have started making ATI cards and I havent really kept up which is supposed to be the best, but it's always a good bet to get the made by ati card.
When it says powered by ATI that means another man. like powercolor made it and not ATI.
The 9800pro would be the best to get.
Thanks Vampiel - Do you know any which are "Made By ATi Cards?" I will look at getting one when the new cards are release in april as that is only a couple of weeks away and hopefully the 9800pro should come down then :)
Im sure the price will drop when the new ones are released.
That;s gr8 - Thanks - Nice card - will find a UK dealer online to purchase from. But as you all said (thanks to all) I shall wait till the new cards are out so this 9800Pro will come down in price in a couple of weeks (will hang on to the refund when my 9800pro is back in stock at the dealers) :)
Doraemon
03-30-2004, 05:37 PM
Originally posted by mobo57
Whew!!!
Agree with Vampiel as to the card to buy. 9800 Pro, Arctic Cooler, 2 pints Guiness Stout. U B Fine!
:p
Pants.....
No serious - I can't afford the new game cards when they come out soon so I will have to stick with what i can afford - cost me alot to build my new games PC so dont have the funds for the next gen cards.
BTW - Save the drink for when I am old enuff lol.....
:-@
Vampiel
03-30-2004, 05:47 PM
I think another good recommendation would be that buying the bleeding edge top of the line computer parts is a waste of money. Always wait at least a couple of months after something comes out before buying it, the price will drop dramatically in that time period. The AMD64's are starting to become reasonably priced but thats another subject.:D
DozerLYP
03-30-2004, 11:56 PM
ye but i have AMD 64 FX51 and i want to be able to play FarCry on best with FX on, and AA on this is the reason i'm building this Super PC. and i realy don't like ATI. i had nothing but problem with them and i will not give them any of my money. but ready to pay top price for the new Nvidia as soon it comes out. :r
bblqj78
03-31-2004, 05:00 AM
Doraemon
U'll get a Saphire 9800pro and an arctic cooler below from overclockers.co.uk for about £170 inclduing delivery.....not bad at all! The Saphire are basically identical to the BB ATI's
Built By ATI's cant be bought in Europe, stick with Sapphire though and you should be fine, afterall, they make most of the 'Built By ATi' cards nowadays anyhows
--Jakk:t
Rabbitrunner51
03-31-2004, 09:38 AM
WELL...AFTER READING ALL THESE POSTS....iT SURE LOOKS LIKE AN ATI POST AND NOT VERY OBJECTIVE ON BOTH SIDES....
YOU PEOPLE SURE LOVE YOUR ATI PRODUCTS ....THATS EVIDENT..
I READ TWICE, AT LEAST, IN THIS POST...WHERE THE GENTLEMAN SAID HE DIDN'T LIKE ATI CARDS.....AND NO ONE..BOTHERED TO ADDRESS THIS ....
IF I HAD WANTED ONE OF THESE CARDS..I WOULD HAVE BOUGHT IT.....BUT I HAVE BEEN VERY HAPPY WITH NVIDIA. PRODUCTS
iF YOU WERE TO READ ALL THE MANY POSTS ON THE SUBJECT OF VIDEO CARDS...I WOULD GUESS THAT THERE WERE MORE ISSUES WITH ATI CARDS THAN NVIDIA.....(SET ASIDE PERFORMANCE)
BOTH CARDS ARE GOOD CARDS....IN THEIR OWN RIGHT....
JUST TELL HIM TO BUY EITHER THE 9800 PRO OR THE FX 5950..AS YOU CAN GET BOTH TOP END CARDS FOR AROUND
$200.00..AND THEY ARE BOTH ALMOST IDENTICAL IN THE BENCHMARKS......
EITHER OF THESE WOULD BE JUST FINE FOR PRESENT AND FUTURE GAMING...AND NOT BREAK THE BANK....
FOR A 64 BIT SYSTEM I WOULD WAIT LIKE YOU SAID FOR THE NEXT GENRATION OF CARDS.......
Bigjakkstaffa
03-31-2004, 10:02 AM
He asked for our opinion on which was the best card for serious gaming, not best two cards, as such, the best card for gaming is IMO (and a hefty portion, if not the majority of the hardcore gaming world) the r9800 Pro, so chill.
If he had asked for the two best cards i would have said both the FX5950 and the 9800 Pro, however, he didnt, so i offered the better of those two choices (again IMO). As for not likign Ati products, so what, just because someones had a bad experience with a certain manufacturer in the past doesnt mean they shouldnt necessarily try them again, heck, all the Ati cards i used prior to my 9800 Pro gave me nothing but trouble, i still didnt let that or any other silly little prejudice get in the way of me buying the best card around though when i went looking.
As for Ati cards being more toublesome, matter of opinion, but by and large yes, however this usually comes in the form of driver introduced problems, and as ive long stated, newest drivers doesnt mean best, you should always check the Readme's and wait a few days to see what the word is on a driver release before touching them (i went 3.7-4.2-4.3 and wouldnt advise anyone with an R9800 Pro to touch 3.8-3.10). On a sidenote i could also make a comment about how Nvidias drivers have given me nothing but neck-ache since the introduction of the 40.xx drivers back in 2002.
I dont hold anythign against Nvidia cards (heck ive got more of them in the house ATM than any other make), however at present, for hardcore gaming if i were to choose one card (which i believe is what the poster asked) i would go with the R9800 Pro, even if i had been unlucky enough to experience troubles with Ati in the past (which i have...massive troubles)
--Jakk:t
Bigjakkstaffa
03-31-2004, 10:06 AM
BTW Doraemon, whats up with your existing 9800 Pro, if its a mechanical fault and is still under warranty i woudl see about having it exchanged/refunded
--Jakk:t
Direct1
03-31-2004, 10:46 AM
JUST TELL HIM TO BUY EITHER THE 9800 PRO OR THE FX 5950..AS YOU CAN GET BOTH TOP END CARDS FOR AROUND
Where can you buy an FX5950 for $200? Also, fix your keyboard.
mobo57
03-31-2004, 10:57 AM
One warning on the Arctic Cooler. Last night I was in the middle of a project when a loud buzzing noise started to come from my case. Did a crash shut down and opened the box. I have a video capture card directly under where the A-C sits. THe label on the Cooler had come off and got sucked into the A-C's fan. Took a few minutes to get all of it out. Everything ok though now.
Doraemon
03-31-2004, 11:41 AM
:eek:
It seems that I have started a mini war whoops! he he - Only my 2nd thread (apart from my bro using my account and posting some **** on another thread!) and seems that I have stirred some disagreements between some of you - sorry...
It does seem that the vast majority do like the ATI I kinda got that part myself!
Obvioulsy there are pros/cons of various cards and I have heard more people say that the ATI's are the best but then again I have heard more people have problems with ATI Drivers. Nvidia drivers (i have heard!) are alot easier to work with.
Mobo57 - If I get the Artic Cooler I will take the stickey off but it gets sucked into the fan
Bigjakkstaffa - My rma'd Sapphire 9800Pro was over heating in my PC and would only work with a house fan blasting on to it which is a bit pathetic so I can only assume it was a messed up card. I have asked for a refund so I can hold back for a bit (yeah I know I said I was gonna replace it for an identical str8 away but heh) to see how super kewl these new cards are gonna be in April. Then the 9800Pro will be hopefully cheaper. Yupe true I did ask for people's opions so I can try and take all your knowledge on board so I can learn more (what to work in IT as a job - yipee)
DozerLYP - The 9800Pro can handle FarCry with AA and AS on as I have seen it at a mates house and was "sweet" But I have learnt more now from you about Nvidia cards thanks.
bblqj78 - I did have the Sapphire 9800Pro (without the artic) from overclockers. Overclockers tech support (which weren't the friendlist guys in the world) said the Powercolor card was slightly better than the Sapphire. How it is I don't know. Would be nice to buy a "built by ATI" as Vampiel recommended - Does anyone know why the BB ATI can't be bought in the UK? ALways the way America get the kewl stuff (cheap CD's DvD's) and UK get's ripped off...
Rabbitrunner51 - Thanks for your comments. There doesn't seem to much between the cards as you said.
How many times can I thank people? Anyone else like a thankyou?
:t
he he
Bigjakkstaffa
03-31-2004, 12:02 PM
BBA's dont get sold at all in Europe, probably because ATi dont have any plants in the region (but dont quote me on that), just one of those things i suppose.
As for your old card, definitley sounds like you've got a dud card there from the manufacturer, happens every now and then no matter what the maufacturer (unless its Philips - all their kit is rubbish :p) and is just one of those spots of bad luck that cant really be avoided, but your definitley well within your rights to seek some sort of refund/replacment from the retailer/maunfacturer, so you may well yet get a free solution to your situation.
As for OCUK's tech support, im afraid theyre like that, like Lord Lucan to get hold of and about as friendly as a bulldog with the piles, but bear with them and you should get soem sort of comeback, if not, threaten em with consumers advice etc. And theyre talking rubbish about the Powercolour, though not bad, they are generally seen as one of the poorer quality manufacturers of ATi cards.
As such i always reccomend Sapphire as, apart from the the cooler, your getting BBA quality components, as Sapphire manufacturer the bulk of BBA cards on Ati's behalf
--Jakk:t
Doraemon
03-31-2004, 12:27 PM
"BBA's dont get sold at all in Europe," Boo, hiss, :(
Philips - My Uncle has a DVD recorder and that screwed up... Won;t read pre recordeds now...
Hmmmm, will prb stick to sapphire then. will wait on the refund and see when the cards come down in price (I know I keep repeting myself.)
Can you advise that the dif between the normal and the Rev 3 is the same but just the Rev 3 fits the older cards and the normal one £8.17 will fit a sapphire 9800pro?
What ya think of the Zalman heatpipe system and the optional fan. further down the page? Bit of a mutha or going over board?
Wish OCUK tech guys were as helpful as u guys, it's like they have a "GOD" like status up their own butss all the time when talking with them!
Bigjakkstaffa
03-31-2004, 12:35 PM
Im not really into custom coolign vid cards, but bear in mind the Zalman heat pipe solutiosn are meant to be alternatives to using fans, for those wanting totally silent system's, rather than as an extreme cooling measure. If keeping things chilly is what your aiming for, i woudlnt bother with one.
As for Philips, absoloutley rubbish, had a couple of their CDRW Drives' go belly up on me, heir CD Media is useless and my Philips Stereo which is admittedly knockign on 10-Years old now, has been to the repair shop more often than i care to remember
--Jakk:t
mobo57
03-31-2004, 12:52 PM
The rev 3 cooler is what I have. The difference is that on the first version you have to remove the mounting plate on your card and install one provided with the cooler. Rev 3 you do not do this. It comes with a grill that contains the power switch you mount in the pci opening thru which the card exhausts the warm air. Even on the high setting, my case fans and cpu hsf drowns the card out. It is very quiet and effecient.
Doraemon
03-31-2004, 01:04 PM
Originally posted by mobo57
The rev 3 cooler is what I have. The difference is that on the first version you have to remove the mounting plate on your card and install one provided with the cooler. Rev 3 you do not do this. It comes with a grill that contains the power switch you mount in the pci opening thru which the card exhausts the warm air. Even on the high setting, my case fans and cpu hsf drowns the card out. It is very quiet and effecient.
Ok, I think I am being thick here; :D
The rev3 you don;t have to take your fan off the card and the Rev 3 comes with a fan so you are running two?
The normal 1st version you take the mounting plate off put the cooler plate on the card and then put the card fan on it again?
mobo57
03-31-2004, 01:19 PM
No, you do have to remove the stock fan to mount the cooler. It is the metal mounting bracket on the video card that is used to mount the card in the case, you used to have to remove and install the new one. With rev 3 the only modifications needed on most cards is to remove the fan and mount the new cooler. Very simple, took me all of about 3 minutes to do the complete job.
Page 4 in this review explains what you used to have to do. Rev 3 coolers don't have this plate anymore. It's just a simple grill with the switch attached that goes into the open slot in front of the exhaust port on the cooler.
http://www.spodesabode.com/content/article/vgasilencer/1
Vampiel
03-31-2004, 02:07 PM
Sorry Doraemon, I did not know you were in the UK, nor did I know they do not sell made by ATI in Europe. Well now I know.:D
Doraemon
03-31-2004, 04:46 PM
Oh jes. I read it and it will void the warranty...... Why can't they make a bloody card which you don't need to put these coolers on? FFS!! So on the new version you throw the fan away on the 9800pro and use the one with the artic cooler?
Why the heck does OCUK sell these VGA coolers as they know it will void the warranty and they can stick 2 fingers up at the people who want to return their cards!!
Doraemon
03-31-2004, 04:51 PM
Originally posted by Vampiel
Sorry Doraemon, I did not know you were in the UK, nor did I know they do not sell made by ATI in Europe. Well now I know.:D
Yupe I live in **** UK...... and yupe we don't get the made by ATI's (now I know from an earlier post.)
****!!
Nothing is simple huh! Just want my bloody PC to play online games - how much more of a simple request can that be? I even get the star wars galaxies support staff telling me I have bought a worthless game for £24.99 as I can;t take it back to the store as I have been using my 30 days free credit and they won't let my serial number be sold on as the game is too boring for me. W****rs!
Soz havin a real crappy night. Need an agony aunt :eek:
mobo57
03-31-2004, 04:51 PM
Arctic Cooler does not make any physical mods to your card. Just keep the oem hsf. If the card goes, clean it up, install the orignal hsf, same color of goo, return. I know, it works. :D
Bigjakkstaffa
03-31-2004, 05:18 PM
What Mobo says, what you dont tell them, they won't find out ;)
--Jakk:t
mobo57
03-31-2004, 05:52 PM
Yup, works on just about everything. :D
Rabbitrunner51
03-31-2004, 07:00 PM
Just a word of apology for sounding like a nag or something....I believe everyone has a right to their opinions...and maybe I should have listened between the lines....
Alot of you people are from the UK...and it seems like I just butted in..sorry about that!
I have an inherent nature to be fair....and I just wanted another unbiased reply to pop up somewhere..which it didn't....
Someday..if I ever ever would be the case.....I might try an ATI card myself to see what all the talking is aboutf...instead of alot of tech talk and hearsay...is notr like owning one and seeing for oneself....
I read these posts....even not addressed to me to learn about things and peoples opnions and some good facts.....
Jakl...its obvious that you are a decent and well meaning person...with some good overall advice and knowledge
So be it! And the graphic wars loom on>....and on.. and on......
:cool:
mobo57
03-31-2004, 07:23 PM
Uh, yea....the Full Sail kicked in......
I guess it goes to say that those who have used the cards can voice an opinion. I am not trashing Nvidia. My ti 4200 was probably one of the best cards I ever bought for the price. Even my old Gfs 440 was a good card. But when I got the 5200, well I can't describe my feelings, except to say that was the WORST card I ever bought.
Yes I have to say I have not tried the 59** series. And I don't see too many people pushing their 59** cards here. Reason being????
I have to admit I went straight to the 9800 Pro (ATI). But I have to say it has been the best da** card I have ever had, short of the dated TI. In games, real life, and of course benchmarking, it is like that old timex commercial, takes a licking and keeps on ticking.
Bottom line is, all the people pushing the 9800 pro and have one, and there is a reason for that, love this card. It is a GREAT vid card, a true hall of fame member, not some also ran like the Mets, Blazers or, for you UK'rs, Manchester United.
Vampiel
03-31-2004, 09:43 PM
Actually I have a fx5900 b/c the 9800 was about $100 more when I bought it.
DozerLYP
03-31-2004, 11:08 PM
Originally posted by Vampiel
Actually I have a fx5900 b/c the 9800 was about $100 more when I bought it.
and is still is. :rolleyes:
Direct1
04-01-2004, 01:00 AM
Am I missing something here? Can you show a link to where you can buy a FX5900 (non SE or XT) for $116 USD? That would be $100 cheaper than the 9800 Pro.
SAPPHIRE ATI RADEON 9800PRO Video Card, 128MB DDR, 256-bit, DVI/TV-Out, 8X AGP -RETAIL (http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=14-102-281&depa=0) = $216 USD shipped.
Cheapest FX5900 I could find...
GAINWARD FX POWERPACK! FX 5900 128MB RETAIL (http://www.gameve.com/gve/store/productdetails.aspx?sku=VC-GAIN-FX5900) = $225 USD shipped.
Rabbitrunner51
04-01-2004, 01:28 AM
Vanpiel...how do you like it.....? I have the same card and it is a good overall card....and in some benchmark tests it is a bit above the 9800....
Seriously..I wouldn't mind trying the 9800 or the Pro model just to see for myself what all the buzz is about.....and if I would have any issues at all....
I wonder why ATI cards are so much more??? Sometimes the newer kid on the block has to sell for more to keep up ..as thats a basic marketing..finantial thing...
Very soon I am going to try and overclock this card some and learn how to use the Riva tuner ..... to see what it will do..
I guess from all reports that were sucessfull that you can change th ebios in this card(5900 ) to operate and be just like the 5950.....
Generally ..I have had no problems with this card playing any top end games and the AA and AF work fine..
Come on now....what are you getting for $4-500.00 ??
Get real.....just wait for the new cards with 64 bit capability...
For those people who have money to throw down the drain..go for it.....seems more like an ego thing than anything trully outperforming and practical.....
Doraemon
04-01-2004, 11:32 AM
Originally posted by mobo57
for you UK'rs, Manchester United.
They are ****! But that footie conversation is for a different site forum :rolleyes:
I have noticed that this american site stars out the word danm (swoop the m and n around!) although it doesn't star out bloody or ****!! Strange huh?
Obviously not graphics card related!
Doraemon
04-01-2004, 11:35 AM
Originally posted by Direct1
Am I missing something here? Can you show a link to where you can buy a FX5900 (non SE or XT) for $116 USD? That would be $100 cheaper than the 9800 Pro.
SAPPHIRE ATI RADEON 9800PRO Video Card, 128MB DDR, 256-bit, DVI/TV-Out, 8X AGP -RETAIL (http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=14-102-281&depa=0) = $216 USD shipped.
Cheapest FX5900 I could find...
GAINWARD FX POWERPACK! FX 5900 128MB RETAIL (http://www.gameve.com/gve/store/productdetails.aspx?sku=VC-GAIN-FX5900) = $225 USD shipped.
That is alot cheaper then the UK prices - 9800 Pro US - $216 - UK £116.00 - but the cheapest I have found this card in the UK is £151.00 - why are they alot cheaper in the US and a rip off in the UK and I don't belive its because they have to ship them over from anhter country thats a big difference.
Doraemon
04-01-2004, 11:37 AM
Originally posted by Rabbitrunner51
wait for the new cards with 64 bit capability...
For those people who have money to throw down the drain..go for it.....seems more like an ego thing than anything trully outperforming and practical.....
Can't afford it, had to save up for the 9800Pro for £151.00 ($280.00) but since they bring out the new cards soon (as you guys have been saying) the 9800 pro will be cheapr for me to buy - yipee :)
Bigjakkstaffa
04-01-2004, 11:42 AM
£150 for a 9800 Pro is still money very well spent for the performance your getting.
And i agree anyone spending over 250 quid on a graphics card wants a slap round the lug-hole, i got my R9800 for £220 quid at a time when the R9800 Pro was going for £350-£400 and modded it up to 9800 Pro with a little know how and a BIOS flash, hundred quid saved and the fastest card going (at the time).
If you cant get some sort fo replacment or rebate from OCUK, firstly, get someone onto them, maybe they'll buck up their ideas then, secondly, wait for the next Nvidia card and see what it does to the 9800 Pro's price, the 9800 Pro is definitley still worth a monkey and a half, but if you can get it a little cheaper in a few weeks time, you wont complain will you ;)
--Jakk:t
Doraemon
04-01-2004, 11:47 AM
Originally posted by Bigjakkstaffa
If you cant get some sort fo replacment or rebate from OCUK, firstly, get someone onto them, maybe they'll buck up their ideas then, secondly, wait for the next Nvidia card and see what it does to the 9800 Pro's price, the 9800 Pro is definitley still worth a monkey and a half, but if you can get it a little cheaper in a few weeks time, you wont complain will you ;)
--Jakk:t [/B]
Your filling me with confidcene with OCUK - are they going to screw me over then? Get someone onto them like the school bully yea? lol:p
Yupe saving money = another GC game
Bigjakkstaffa
04-01-2004, 11:56 AM
Theyre service is great, up until the point you need to get back to them, then it gets a little bit difficult. I would email them, give em a week to repond and then email em again, give it two or three days, then again and so on until you get a response or to the fortnight mark, then try ringing them, but dont be put off by any BS. If they still aint having none and your within your rights to ask for a refund/return with, get in touch consumer advice and see what they can do for you
I personally still buy from OCUK, but im very cautious in my approach to them, i tend not to buy really big things there
--Jakk:t
bblqj78
04-01-2004, 03:56 PM
Overclockers.co.uk
has got a BB ATI 9800pro now for £126....wow thats CHEAP!!!!!
Wow, im amazed they actually have it in stock, they go like hot cakes and the stock arrival times are usually up to a month due to the fact OCUK have to get em brought in from America.
Excellent price, excellent quality, looks a good buy
--Jakk:t
Doraemon
04-02-2004, 04:17 AM
I called over clockers last night and they said that it can take around 10 working days for the card to be tested before a refund will be aloud (although they said they would not charge me anyways) so they are talkin sh1t. do you think i shld go ahed and get this one then? Isit better then the sapphire 9800pro i just sent back? are OCUK likely to send me anothr one bnut then i would have to the made by ATI and the sapphire?
thnks
:rolleyes:
Rabbitrunner51
04-02-2004, 05:57 AM
I really didn't know you brits had to spend so much more for things over there...
If a card costs around $220.00 here..how much would it cost over there in US money or the equivilent???
Jak.seems to be talking alot of sense and it sounds like he knows a little bit of what he is talking about....
I do not think that buying the Gainworld one is such a great idea..as their reputation is not up to some of the others.....
If you bought some card in the UK...is it made ithe UK( or europe ), or are they shipped there from the US or elseware ..and sold with the taxes added on??
Pricing of things is something I have alot of fun with and just might go searching tonight to find out what the best deals are here..and let you know...... jolly good then....cherio!
Doraemon
04-02-2004, 08:51 AM
Originally posted by Rabbitrunner51
If a card costs around $220.00 here..how much would it cost over there in US money or the equivilent???
If you bought some card in the UK...is it made ithe UK( or europe ), or are they shipped there from the US or elseware ..and sold with the taxes added on??
Pricing of things is something I have alot of fun with and just might go searching tonight to find out what the best deals are here..and let you know...... jolly good then....cherio!
WHo is gainworld?
Doin a conversion of £220.00 is £119.84 If that is the prce of the 9800 over there then UK price suxs. We dont add tax as its alredyt on the price. Dunno if shiped from whjere ever it is from but I am going on what teh others say that this is a made buy and shipped from US.
jolly good then and cherio?
Ta Ta For Now my good man.... As if we talk like that! :p
Notice how many good movies have enlish actors as the main bad guy, you guys just love our accents he he :)
Someone gonna tell me abhout my previous post bout OCUK and the sapphire comparision to the MB ATI card they are selling?
Bloody good show ole boy....
Bigjakkstaffa
04-02-2004, 10:28 AM
Rabbit means Gainward
Send your existing card back to OCUK, the dealy for testing is standard with returned items of any type to any company, they wont just take your word for these things you know. If its a mechanical fault and their testing verifies this you should get a replacment for free or a refund.
If i were you i would wait to see if you can get some sort of free solution to this situation before spending any money on a brand spanking new card
As for the differences between the BBA and Sapphire, theres only one, the cooler. Other than that theyre more or less identical in terms of build quality, if i were you i would just go with whichever is cheaper
--Jakk:t
Doraemon
04-02-2004, 12:07 PM
Originally posted by Bigjakkstaffa
Rabbit means Gainward
Send your existing card back to OCUK, the dealy for testing is standard with returned items of any type to any company, they wont just take your word for these things you know. If its a mechanical fault and their testing verifies this you should get a replacment for free or a refund.
If i were you i would wait to see if you can get some sort of free solution to this situation before spending any money on a brand spanking new card
As for the differences between the BBA and Sapphire, theres only one, the cooler. Other than that theyre more or less identical in terms of build quality, if i were you i would just go with whichever is cheaper
--Jakk:t
Issue is that they might turn around and say there is nothing wrong with it (although from their **** phone attitude it wouldn't surprise me) and charge me for it but why would anyone give them a card back and say it is faulty and then not be as they know they check the cards. Also they said it would take 7-10 days and by that time the cards that are on ofer (which are BB ATI) would have sold out. bugger!!
Bigjakkstaffa
04-02-2004, 12:40 PM
I would still send it back, even if they do feed you a line and say its not their problem, there is still a large chance you can get the card replaced totally free of charge, which to me is much better than spending a hundred quid plus on a new card (even if it is on offer) in addition to however much you spent on the now knackered card
--Jakk:t
Doraemon
04-02-2004, 03:45 PM
Originally posted by Bigjakkstaffa
I would still send it back, even if they do feed you a line and say its not their problem, there is still a large chance you can get the card replaced totally free of charge, which to me is much better than spending a hundred quid plus on a new card (even if it is on offer) in addition to however much you spent on the now knackered card
--Jakk:t
Well they got the card the other day so will wait till they contact me next week (so they said) so will let you know in 2005!!
Rabbitrunner51
04-02-2004, 06:32 PM
There you go..good advice.....I would make them do good by it..first
I ,myself am very ademant about things like that....nobody likes to spend their hard earned money for ****.....
Computer parts and hardware are like anything else...sometimes you get a bad one.
I checked on the Sapphire Raedon 9800 Pro...at NewEgg.com and they had several at a cost of about $216.00 on up to $280.00....
The reviews on this card were 98% five star
I did notice one thing I wanted to see ..and that is that the open GL is 2.0..which is lower than the Nvidia cards of the same equivilency......Nvidia's are at 3.5 and 4.0
This probably doesn't mean too much in the function of the card for any average user...unless there are specific games that require it....
The cards by Gainward were rated OK too and yes the only real differnce is the cooler or fan attachment...ect...
mobo57
04-02-2004, 08:44 PM
When I rma'd my card, took 5 days to have the replacement. But that was ATI, Toronto. Still........
Doraemon
04-19-2004, 02:07 PM
OMG. I finally got a reply from Over clockers. They said they would refund the money on the graphics card. So there was a porblem with it after all. They said they refunded on friday but has not shown up yet. the price has not come down yet. are the new ati cards out now? Is the 9800XT Ultimate 256MB a new card?
Vampiel
04-19-2004, 02:54 PM
If they said they will refund it on friday then it usually take around 5 business days for the refund to show up. BTW the new video cards will be out by next month. There are allready some reviews on the new NVIDIA, but no word on the new ATI yet.
Here's a review on the new NVIDIA that should hit store shelves in a few weeks.
Just take a look at the benchmarks and the conclusion.:eek: No doubt this card will be around $500 though.
Doraemon
04-19-2004, 03:43 PM
Originally posted by Vampiel
Just take a look at the benchmarks and the conclusion.:eek: No doubt this card will be around $500 though.
Yea but then the current cards will come down in price :)
Excellent
mobo57
04-19-2004, 04:36 PM
I'd still go with the 9800 pro. Can find it for about $200-+, where as the 9800 XT 256 meg is around $400. Performance wise, the pro is up there with the xt, slap on a $20 Arctic Cooler Siliencer and with a little oc'ing it can hold it's own. Though I always seem to have to get the newest tech, this time I am staying on the sidelines till probably the end of the year before I do any major upgrades. Too much happening and too much new tech coming out. Gonna be a lot of bugs and changes to work through. Right now my 9800 pro with my AMD 3200 still rocks most anything out there. You can also bet that 6800 will go from $500 to about $300 by years end as Nvidia and ATI go head to head in releasing the next level cards, including PCI express.
Check this review:
http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.html?i=1890&p=1
Rabbitrunner51
04-19-2004, 07:23 PM
Its the 6800 Ultra that is $500.00 ...
The regular 6800 is going to be about $299.00 or so..........:t
mobo57
04-19-2004, 08:07 PM
can't find reviews on the ultra vs non-ultra card. But given past performance from Nvidia, the non-ultra is probably gonna be a dog compared to the ultra. Given past performance diferentials on the Nvidia cards, I'd wager it probably compares with the 9800 xt or so, or could be the next generation comparison of the FX 5200... A real bowser.
cheeseman
04-19-2004, 08:40 PM
is my geforce 5600 fx ultra 128meg in my dell 8200 good fro games i think runs pretty
and is also my geforce 5200 128 ultra good for games
mobo57
04-19-2004, 09:53 PM
IMO the 5600 is ok, but I had the 5200. No comparison to the 9800 pro, or a lot of cards. It was a real dog. So bad I went back to my Ti card until I got my 9800. Sorry, but It just did not perform that good. Here, we are talking about the 6800, hopefully, and acorrding to the reviews, lightyears above the 5200. If not, Nvidia is going to be history.
Bigjakkstaffa
04-20-2004, 11:40 AM
Yup, the 5600 is passable for gaming, but the 5200 in all forms is a budget card really, for those on hardware/monetary bottlenecked systems or who do little/no serious gaming
--Jakk:t
Doraemon
04-20-2004, 11:45 AM
Ooooooooooo Bigjakkstaffa got a lush new avatar - very nice :t
Bigjakkstaffa
04-20-2004, 11:47 AM
Animated .gif for the Overseer's album, "Wreckage".
See, i was right to tell you to keep badgering OCUK for a refund ;).
As for the 9800 Pro ultimate, no its not a new card, its basically the 256mb 9800 Pro with a new fangles passive cooling solution on it (no noise, but often higher temperatures) If you ask me your better off just buying a regular 9800 Pro and then picking up a VGA Arctic Silencer Cooler for a tenner if you must have customised cooling, much cheaper.
--Jakk:t
Doraemon
04-20-2004, 12:09 PM
Will do but will wait for the price of the 9800pro to come down now. OCUK are **** tho, their customer support is about as good as a squashed hedgehog (and even the hedgehog would have a use afterwards, i.e. a dinner for a scavenger lol)
JediOfDarkness
04-20-2004, 11:53 PM
Hey, has anyone heard about an official release date of the GeForce 6800? I'm building a new computer, and I'm thinking about putting a Radeon 9800 Pro in it, but after seeing the specs of the GeForce 6800, it's making me think. I know that the new PCI slots are suppose to be coming out soon with speeds of 16x, and they say that graphics cards utilizing this new technology will have amazing speeds, so I wonder, is it worth paying $200+ more for the GeForce 6800 when it comes out? Or would it be better to buy the Radeon 9800 Pro now and wait for the new cards? I hardly ever run games on a higher resolution than 1024x768, and looking at the benchmarks the GeForce 6800 doesn't out-preform the Radeon 9800 XT by much on the low resolutions, it's on the high resolutions that it kicks but. So I don't even know if the GeForce 6800 is even right for me. What do you guys think?
See ya,
--Johnny
Vampiel
04-21-2004, 12:15 AM
I wouldnt pay an extra $200 for the 6800. For now the 9800pro would be the way to go as far as a value purchase would go.
JediOfDarkness
04-21-2004, 12:26 AM
Alright, I'm probably gonna go with the 128mb card, because I've seen that it ourpreforms the 256mb R9800 Pro in most benchmarks. Go figure..
One other thing, I've heard you all talking about this Artic Cooler quite a bit. What I want to know is, how do you overclock a GPU in the first place? I know how to overclock a CPU, and I've got mine OC'd right now. I'm probably gonna go ahead and buy that Artic Cooler, as I'm buying fans for everything else in my new system, want to keep it nice and cool.
Oh, and can you guys recommend some good fans? I want one good one for the CPU (Athlon64 3200) and 2 for the case (preferably blue neon glow) and the case I'm buying is coming with a case fan default. So a total of three case fans. I'm getting a 480 watt power supply, so I don't think power will be a problem, but if you think it woud be a better idea to spend a little more to get a better one, I can do that.
The CPU fan that I found that looked good to me was a Thermaltake Venus 12 CPU fan, any good, total **** or something out there that's better?
See ya,
--Johnny
JediOfDarkness
04-21-2004, 12:43 AM
Sorry, I guess that's getting a little too far off topic..
It really depends on how much noise you want to put up with. Im not sure about that specific model, but I know that the thermaltake fans are usually very loud running. The best one would be th Swiftech MCX462+ but it's a little pricey, around $50 (plus you have to find a fan to put on it). A cheaper alternative would be the Vantec VA4-C7040 around $20.
So if you want to spend over $50 get the Swiftech MCX462+, that will give you pretty much the BEST money can buy. But if you dont really want to spend that much the Vantec VA4-C7040 is still a very good alternative.
The 9800pro is oc'd through software. I dont personally have that card so I will let those who do answer what is the best software to use to oc it.
A 480w PSU should be suffiecient. Just make sure you get a good name brand like Thermaltake, Antec, Enermax, or Sparkle to name a few.
Direct1
04-21-2004, 01:05 AM
The Thermaltake Venus 12 looks like a pretty good fan for a nice price. I like the Thermalright Copper Heatsink for both Intel and AMD, Model "SLK948U" -RETAIL (http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=35-109-114&depa=0) too because you can put a 90mm fan on it. Either should do well for you.
Good luck! :D
JediOfDarkness
04-21-2004, 07:37 PM
I've been looking into how to overclocking graphics cards and I've just overclocked my GeForce 5200 Ultra to 320/370 and it runs great in all the games I have without it glitching. What I was wondering, how much can you overclock a Radeon 9800 Pro? I'm planning on getting a Arctic Cooler VGA Silencer, so I'm guessing that will improve overclock speeds even more. The Radeon 9800 Pro comes set at 380/680, so how far do you think someone could take it? If I could get it overclocked high enough, I wouldn't really have a need to get the GeForce 6800 (475/1200?) or the Radeon X800XT (500/950?).
See ya,
--Johnny
mobo57
04-21-2004, 07:42 PM
With the Arctic Cooler I have my ATI 9800 Pro oc'd at 452/756, clear and no artifacts at all. Still say, these next gen cards, wait 6 to 9 months, these are first offerings.
Doraemon
04-26-2004, 03:22 PM
After 8 days the OCUK said they have refunded it still has not shown up on my Dad's CC. They emailed today to say that a refund has been issued so they lied last week. Then the refund is less the what was paid for the gfx card. Just thought I would let you all know just how rubbish and bunch of liars OCUK are.
:(
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