Cooling idea, see if im crazy

[crossedup]

Okay, been thinking about this for a bit and have possible solution before getting the water cooling going.

Going to be summer soon. My 2 Barton rigs have okay temps right now but in a few months it will be up to 90's here in NC and i want to keep them cool. Starting plans now.

Went to the hardware store to check on some ideas, pic shows preliminary of one idea.

Going to add a pipe on the bottom of that thing and run it through the floor to the underside of the house. Even in the summer its nice and cool down there. The pipe length wont be but 4' or a little less.

Already figured out how to mount a fan on the end. The one i have on there now doesnt push enough air so i will get another one, was just testing the mounting.

Fan on the inside of case in the back, screw part of pipe through a hole in the back of case then elbow fitted ( as shown )and finally pipe added ( not shown, havent bought yet).

Will the extra addition of 30 degree cooler air in the dead of summer probably make any differance?

Should i keep my pipe radius the same, go up or go down? Was thinking keep it the same myself, smaller i wouldnt get enough air to make it worth it. Bigger and it wouldnt be able to pull enough.

Just comments before i try. Point out any flaws. BE NICE. :D

I am going to put air filters on it so no bugs. :D

[Happy Joe]

It ought to help, Mama spider may wish to cohabitate, so the filter is a good idea. I would also do a dry run before cutting the floor as tubing/pipes will sometimes resonate and make a much louder noise than you would expect. If you can get the cooler air directly to the HSF it will be more effective than simply running it into the case.
Just my 2 cents.
Enjoy!

[leprechaun_40]

You may want to go up in pipe diameter. Remember, any bends will effectively double the pipe length as far as pushing air goes. I. E. one 90 deg. bend in a 4 foot pipe will make it act like 8 foot.


Guess you don't plan on moving the unit much do you?

Might want some sort of screen on the lower end also, rodents love small pipes.

30 degrees cooler, now there's a good deal if you can make it work.:t

Good luck with this idea:t

[Vampiel]

That should work.

[crossedup]

Thanks guys, no not really going to move it much Lep. If i do another one will take its place so thats no trouble.

Another thought, if i have enough fans in the case blowing out it creates what, negative pressure? If this is the case then i could almost do away with the fan blowing in off the inlet pipe as the fans all blowing out would pull in enough air anyway, has to come from somewhere and that would be easiest place.

Enough fans blowing out as in 2-80 mm on side, 1 92 mm on top and 1-120mm in back. Think this would be adequate?

[Vampiel]

It would suck it from the pipe (ok maybe I should re-phrase that). I would try it with and without the fan, see which works better. It's hard to say which one would work better, the best way to find out is to try it.

[leprechaun_40]

I'd run it with the fan, the exhuast fans will be pulling air in around the drives, next to the case sides, etc. You'll need something to push that cool air into the machine.:t

[Vampiel]

Im leaning more toward the fan as well, but you can find out for sure by trying both approaches. leprechaun_40 judging from one of your previous posts it sounds like you have some HVAC experience?

[leprechaun_40]

Vampiel, nope, but I have a friend who does:t

[Vampiel]

AH HAH, this kind of gave it away...

"Remember, any bends will effectively double the pipe length as far as pushing air goes. I. E. one 90 deg. bend in a 4 foot pipe will make it act like 8 foot. " <---- BTW this is TRUE crossedup

[crossedup]

You may want to go up in pipe diameter.



Thanks but remember i have to go through the floor with this thing and my wife aint really happy about it as is. My rig is on the floor so i can hide it behind it.

Once i come out of the case with the pipe and turn 90 degrees and go through the floor the pipe shouldnt be but 3 foot or so. The one i have in the pic is 1-1/2" internal diameter. Ill try it with this one first and see what happens, can always make the hole bigger if success is good.

Its going in my rig pictured here (http://www.sysopt.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=158730)
in this thread, the second one, the one with the red fans. Going to figure out exactly where to mount the pipe soon.

Hopefully i can complete work this week end while the wife is out horseback riding. :)

[Johnny Fist]

Would it be possible to add a fan to the end of the pipe thats down in the basement to help blow air into the pipe? That might help also. But to be honest, I'd go with water colling before I drilled a hole in the floor that big just to help keep my computer cool.

[Happy Joe]

I believe that Johnny F. is on the right track... with a pipe that small and the bends you might consider both a fan blowing in at the bottom and one sucking out at the top to help make up for the restriction, bend etc. I have noticed that sanitary fittings usually have a greater bend radius and would probably impead the flow less.
A good scrounger can reduce the cost of water cooling very significantly (to slightly more than the cost of a good (expensive) HSF (or less if you make your own waterblock).
Enjoy!

[crossedup]

You are all right, im afraid, after much thought.

What chance does a small fan like that have at pulling in cool air when there are all those larger fans trying even harder to blow it back out. Seems like a futile effort.

Am going to rethink the idea a bit.

You are right with the water cooling Johnny. Would rather do that but this seemed much cheaper. ( Have $2 in it so far.)

Got any good info links on that Happyjoe? I think that is my next step.

[RamonGTP]

I'd definatly add the fan... Sure creating a vacuum will suck air up, but a fan would help out a lot...

Think of it in terms of cars... You've got naturally asperiated engines that basically are able to intake air by creating a vacuum. Add a turbo or supercharger to force the air into that very same engine and you've got yourself a CONSIDERABLE power boost.

[Vampiel]

Isnt water cooling pretty expensive for any good type of system?

[Johnny Fist]

Yeah, its expensive to buy a kit. Its a little cheaper if you try and DIY it.

[Happy Joe]

Cheap watercooling;
Find a junk car swipe the heater core- free (air conditioning condensers and transmission coolers from cars also work -still free
Check out garage sales frends & aquaintences for a 150 to 300 gallon per minute fountain pump, if all else fails buy one from harbor freight - free to $24 (wait for a sale) (try to get one that will push the greatest head)
about 4 - 6 feet of black plastic tubing, 3/8" minimum ID(1/2" will flow better but is harder to make sharp bends with.) (black helps prevent algae growth) - $3 to $6 at any good hardware store
tupperware sump for the water - free to $4 - kitchen or any supermarket/walmart etc. (can also be made from plumbing parts)
Fan for the heatercore - free if you have an extra - $2 and up at directron (plus shipping)
build a waterblock - $2 to$5 (material and a couple hours of time)
If purchased new up to $50. Search for water cooling and copy a design or make up your own. (don't forget to lap the side that goes against your processor)
Assorted clamps, hose barbs and hardware - $15(new) Can be scrounged off of many automobile engines if you have a friendly junk yard - free to $5.
Springs and plastic bolts with nuts to secure the waterblock to your motherboard $5 at a good hardware store.
During your search (on the internet for watercooling or waterblocks or overclocking etc) you will find references to water wetter to reduce the surface tension and inhibit corrosion. Its availiable at many autimotive stores but it stinks (smells quite bad) if you can afford it, get one of the products sold for overclocking that do not smell as bad.
Always remember to start the pump before you turn on the computor. Try plugging both into a powerstrip with a switch then turn the switch off after you shut the computor down.
If there is enough interest, I could probably knock out a short artical on how to put it all together but a diligent serch of the internet should provide the rest of the needed info...
Enjoy!

[Vampiel]

Hmm.... drilling a hole through the floor sounds easier.:D

[Happy Joe]

Yeah... it might give the water a place to go too.
Enjoy!

[crossedup]

If purchased new up to $50. Search for water cooling and copy a design or make up your own. (don't forget to lap the side that goes against your processor



Copper recommended or is aluminum okay?

Still going to do the floor thing but i want to water cool as well and i dont want to buy a kit. I want to DIY so i understand how it works and what is wrong if it doesnt.

Already have ideas for HS and searching the internet is best option anyway.

[Vampiel]

Originally posted by crossedup
Copper recommended or is aluminum okay?

Still going to do the floor thing but i want to water cool as well and i dont want to buy a kit. I want to DIY so i understand how it works and what is wrong if it doesnt.

Already have ideas for HS and searching the internet is best option anyway.

I would be careful.... watercooling is nice..... BUT you can severly damage your system esp. in a DIY for the first time environment. Just be careful..:D

I cant give you advice on this one... ive never used water cooling.

[crossedup]

As far as DIY, i was thinking more along the lines of the pump, radiator and lines. Was going to buy the first CPU block so I know it would be okay.

If I ever run across a solid chunk of the right material im going to try to fashion my own but until then will buy a pre-made.

Hmm.... drilling a hole through the floor sounds easier.

LOL, with that description, your right. Hard to adequately put words to paper ( or keyboard ). Im going to save the chunk i drill out of the floor so if it doesnt work right i can put it back in somehow.

[Sir William]

Ever think about putting your computer in the basement?:D

If you really want to upgrade your cooling, try a new HS/F. You never mentioned what kind of HS/F you were using to begin with. I'm running my 1700+ (133.7x11**, 1.5v) with stock HS/F and I get about 39°C idle. My room temp is around 70°F-75°F, so it's kinda warm. I built this rig last fall, so I don't know what kind of CPU temps I'll be getting in the summer. I remember seeing my P3 system go up to 50°C last summer (HS only, with a case fan blowing cool air on it). Don't forget that cable clutter can reduce air flow.

Yea, they're noobish comments, but they work!

**Heh, I got a "leet" FSB. CPU-Z says so. Woo!

[stix_kua]

If i were you, instead of destorying your case and you house, I'd spend about the same amount of money and get a better heatsink/fan combination. This idea seems like a bad one because alot of things can go wrong...

just my 2 cents...

[Happy Joe]

Personnally I have made several watercooling systems. All worked OK some were awsome for the time (1 to 2 years ago). I'm currently running a SLK 900 heatsink ducted from the outside of the case and have no plans to try water again. I have found that a good heatsink on air (ducted) works as well or better (but not necessarily quieter) than the watercooling systems that I, and several friends, have put together (including those assembled with high priced comercial parts). It was fun experimenting though.
Remember, the second law of thermo dynamics will prevent either a standard heatsink or watercooling from cooling below the temperature of the ambient air. Of course, if you put the radiator for the watercooler in the cellar/crawlspace/ basement you will be able to get the max. benefit (lowest temps). (You would also have 2 (relatively) small holes instead of one large one)
Enjoy!

[Vampiel]

Im not sure where the second law of thermodynamics states that, but it does make sense. Unless you have an air conditioner.:D They hooked up the AC to the computer, and use liquid nitro.

like this one
http://www.tomshardware.com/cpu/20031230/index.html

[nothing]

I agree with stix_kua.

You could also buy an ar conditioner to the room where the computer is. That would solve the problem.

[Happy Joe]

I'm guessing that Crossedup is looking for an inexpensive solution. I am also not sure of the level of fabrication expertese availiable, so I hesitate to suggest the building of a phase change cooler. I favor the better heatsink and fan idea (with a duct to the outside of the case(lowers CPU temp aprox. 10C)). But ... watercooling (with a basement mounted (heatercore + fan) radiator) would also provide lower temps, at resonable cost, with some risks and smaller holes in the floor.
Enjoy!

[crossedup]

Not looking for inexpensive or expensive ideas really, it was just an experiment on my part. Its a barton 2600 sitting at 45 cpu and 27 sys. Got a 80mm on top blowing out, 2 80mm on side blowing out and a TT HSF on the CPU. Will be adding a 120mm fan on the back soon, the cutout is already there.

Its in the same 10'x12' foot room with a Barton 2500 rig , an xp 2200 rig, a PIII 800 rig, 2 19" crt's and 2 15" crt's. It can stay a good bit warm in here with the window open.

Ducting the HSF to the outside of case might work just as well, will give that a go.

[Johnny Fist]

Originally posted by crossedup
Copper recommended or is aluminum okay?

You're going to want to use copper for the water block as aluminium tends to corrode (sp?).

If you wanted to get really carried away I'd suggest using Beryllium Copper. We use it at work when water cooling areas of injection molds is absolutely critical.

Be carefull when you're working with it as it is toxic!

You can find more info here. (http://www.anchorbronze.com/c17200.htm)

Oh, and even if you don't go with water cooling that Beryllium Copper material would make an excellent heat pipe. That might be an option worth considering also.

[crossedup]

Thanks Johnny, interesting link and idea. Will keep that in mind.

Now if i can just get these 4 computers fixed that showed up in the last day, i can get to mine. Got to pay the bills somehow. :D

[Vampiel]

Hey crossedup, I did a little research on water cooling and think I might have a few good things to think about, check out this thread.

http://www.sysopt.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=159169

[Happy Joe]

Cheap chilled water cooling:
http://www.ocforums.com/showthread.php?threadid=282018
Enjoy!