To all you FX video card haters!

[chriswhitelaw]

Nvidia lands Doom 3 deal


The GeForce FX line will be the official graphics cards for Activision's upcoming shooter.

A new page on the Nvidia Web site has revealed that the company has struck a deal with the makers of Doom 3.


According to the page, Activision and id Software are now advising that the game be played on machines using GeForce FX graphics cards. "Nvidia is pleased to announce that id Software recommends the GeForce FX family of graphics processing units for DOOM 3," said the post.

Terms of the Doom3/Nvidia deal were not disclosed. The PC version of Doom 3 is due sometime in Q2 2004, with an Xbox version to be released sometime this year

My FX card is like WHOA!

[MadPistol]

same here. I have an FX 5900 card right now, and it will be happy to see this game land on my machine.... If it ever comes out.

[RamonGTP]

All that means is that nVidia gave ID money to recommend their card. Nothing more nothing less. Not saying FX cards suck, although I personally prefer their ATI equivelent. Point being, its a marketing thing.

[Torlok2002]

agreed... this type of marketing banter is targeted for same people who buy intel because "its so much faster than anything else".


Im not bashing intel... I just hate ignorance

[CrazyCrusher]

well ATI did the same with HL2, but not bashing anyone I take Nvidia over ATI and Intel Over AMD, but one more thing comes into affect, I wonder did Carrmack do this because of the ATI employee who leaked there game. what a game both these companys play eh. next card for me hmmm, prolly next Gen Nvidia cards. man its getting close, 2nd QTR less then 31 days away mmmm hope its not shot back again.

[Strawbs]

I'm sure when it's released it will be compared and benchmarked on both ATI and nVidia cards! I can wait.

[Plaster]

As stated previously, all nvidia did was throw some money at id so id will throw up that "nvidia the way it's meant to be played" ad. The same one that shows up in UT2K3 and UT2K4. Odd how the Radeons look and perform better in both games. But hey, kudos to nvidia. The original post in this thread proves that advertising works.

[CrazyCrusher]

Hasn’t ATI did the same with HL2?? And I have played UT2K3 and UT2K4 with Both cards, and there is know noticeable Difference, Plus if you base buying your Cards on benchmarks then you get what you get I guess, me I never!!! Base anything I buy on benchmarks considering Both of the companies ATI and Nvidia Cheated and don’t compare the %'s gained in them cheats they both cheated it don’t matter how much or how little, and just because they Both said they will never do it again dose not mean they arnt.

[dragflameson]

Originally posted by chriswhitelaw
Nvidia lands Doom 3 deal


The GeForce FX line will be the official graphics cards for Activision's upcoming shooter.

A new page on the Nvidia Web site has revealed that the company has struck a deal with the makers of Doom 3.


According to the page, Activision and id Software are now advising that the game be played on machines using GeForce FX graphics cards. "Nvidia is pleased to announce that id Software recommends the GeForce FX family of graphics processing units for DOOM 3," said the post.

Terms of the Doom3/Nvidia deal were not disclosed. The PC version of Doom 3 is due sometime in Q2 2004, with an Xbox version to be released sometime this year

My FX card is like WHOA!

LOL, that doesnt mean a thing to me... Anybody can do that. Now if they made the game only compatable with Nvidia line cards or something like that then it would be something to brag about, which would never happen cuz that would just be stupid ;)

[Bigjakkstaffa]

Originally posted by chriswhitelaw
Nvidia lands Doom 3 deal


The GeForce FX line will be the official graphics cards for Activision's upcoming shooter.

A new page on the Nvidia Web site has revealed that the company has struck a deal with the makers of Doom 3.


According to the page, Activision and id Software are now advising that the game be played on machines using GeForce FX graphics cards. "Nvidia is pleased to announce that id Software recommends the GeForce FX family of graphics processing units for DOOM 3," said the post.

Terms of the Doom3/Nvidia deal were not disclosed. The PC version of Doom 3 is due sometime in Q2 2004, with an Xbox version to be released sometime this year

My FX card is like WHOA!

Seems someone is forgetting that for a long tiem John Carmack panned the capabilities of the FX series, heavily bemoaning the level fo optimisation required to run his engine smoothly under these cards, while singing the praises of Ati's cards.

That was of course until the leak of the Doom 3 Alpha, which came from a source in Ati, after that Carmack did a complete U-Turn and now, apparently, the FX cards are good all of a sudden.

Personally it doesnt bother me either way as Carmack cant ignore the Ati cards given their increased market share and will have to optimise the code path for them in some form, as such both Ati and Nvidia owners will get a game they can play on their hardware, regardless of who gets the bundle.

Plus Ati and Valve are all pally at the moment, which is rather spiffing, because HL2 has totally overshadowed and pushed D3 from the stage and back into the wings for me

--Jakk

[CrazyCrusher]

Originally posted by Bigjakkstaffa
HL2 has totally overshadowed and pushed D3 from the stage and back into the wings for me

--Jakk

Guess we will have to see when the game comes out shand we, but I think that HL2 overshadowing D3 is tiny bit of an over statement.

[Strawbs]

Originally posted by Bigjakkstaffa
HL2 has totally overshadowed and pushed D3 from the stage and back into the wings for me

--Jakk ;)

[causticVapor]

Originally posted by Plaster
But hey, kudos to nvidia. The original post in this thread proves that advertising works.

Yeah some folks are quite naive, aren't they :p

[CrazyCrusher]

ye guess so, given the fact when ATI landed the HL2 deal it was all over for forums then to, amazing when its Nvidia its a bad thing but when ATI do it its a great thing to some lol give me a break.;)

[CrazyCrusher]

Originally posted by Strawbs
;)
:rolleyes:

[chriswhitelaw]

famous quote from B-rad from Malibu's Most Wanted
"don't be hatin"

[RamonGTP]

Apparently people that are taken by marketing gimmics also have bad taste in movies.

[Plaster]

Originally posted by CrazyCrusher
ye guess so, given the fact when ATI landed the HL2 deal it was all over for forums then to, amazing when its Nvidia its a bad thing but when ATI do it its a great thing to some lol give me a break.;)

Never once did I mention ATi and HL2. Got a paranoia streak, do ya? HL2 is a whole different animal. Valve as well as id both said do to poor ps 2.0 implementations on the FX series of cards,substantial time has been spent optimizing code paths to get remotely playable framerates on FX based cards.

My post only addressed the fact that the original poster thought that the "nvidia, the way it's meant to be played" ad at the begining of games means that the game is actually better on nvidia cards. It's a gimmic, an ad. The two companies claiming the FX series struggle with PS 2.0 is not an ad. With the ad in D3 you can expect id to change thier tune, but thats what money does.

[CrazyCrusher]

Originally posted by Plaster
Never once did I mention ATi and HL2. Got a paranoia streak, do ya? HL2 is a whole different animal. Valve as well as id both said do to poor ps 2.0 implementations on the FX series of cards,substantial time has been spent optimizing code paths to get remotely playable framerates on FX based cards.



did I Quote you when I typed my post?? think its you who has the paranoia streak my dear BOY, if you where round when the HL2 Deal was landed maybe you would know what Im talking about, but untill then unless I quote you then im speaking to you or about your post so dont Jump the gun Mr paranoia.

[bob05]

Call me an Nvidia fan boy, I don't care, but as others said ATI did the same thing with Valve. Saying Nvidia payed them off or not doesn't matter, id is now with Nvidia. ATI paid Valve too to give their undying endorsement of HL2. Period.

[Plaster]

Originally posted by CrazyCrusher
did I Quote you when I typed my post?? think its you who has the paranoia streak my dear BOY, if you where round when the HL2 Deal was landed maybe you would know what Im talking about, but untill then unless I quote you then im speaking to you or about your post so dont Jump the gun Mr paranoia.

lol, nope, you didn't quote me. You didn't have to. You replied to my post directly after my post. I mention UT2K3 and 2K4 and you rebutted. After asking if ATi did the same thing with HL2. Paranoia non-existant.

[Strawbs]

I got into one of these "mines better than yours" debates the other day and I still can't get the monkey off my back! I'm staying out of this one.

P.S. My ATi's better than your nVidia! :p

[Plaster]

Originally posted by Strawbs
I got into one of these "mines better than yours" debates the other day and I still can't get the monkey off my back! I'm staying out of this one.

P.S. My ATi's better than your nVidia! :p

lol, I'm not saying mine is better than anyones. I'm just trying to deflate the original poster's baloon by informing him that it's just an ad. nvidia paid id a lot of money to endorse them. Some people seem to think that means they're in league. To a certain extent it does, but not to the extent the fanboys seem to dream it is. Trust me, if Trident offered enough money to id, id would slap a big ole Trident logo on the D3 box and stick a "Trident, the bestest card for this game" logo on the opening ads. ;)

[bob05]

Originally posted by Plaster
Trust me, if Trident offered enough money to id, id would slap a big ole Trident logo on the D3 box and stick a "Trident, the bestest card for this game" logo on the opening ads. ;)

Hear, hear! :p Which is exactly what I am trying to say. Both sides do it, and developers will say anything for money. No need to talk negative about business practices (for both ATI and Nvidia, or any other card maker).

[Plaster]

nope, nothing negative about nvidia paying id for the endorsement. It's good business. If the sheep didn't buy into it they wouldn't do it. Ati put a buttload of money into the Valve endorsement. I don't believe that had anything to do with the FX's poor showing with the initial benches in HL2. At that time nvidia had larger marketshare. To cripple a game for such a huge userbase would be financial suicide. The same kind id would be commiting if they actually crippled D3 on ATi hardware. ;)

[Rugor]

Ok here's what I got from John Carmack's .plan file. Its a bit old, and I'm going from memory but I am sure I have the substance of it.

Doom 3 has different rendering paths based on different levels of hardware feature support. Nvidia cards can run five of them, ATI cards can run three.

At their default settings, the FX5800 (running the NV3x path) was the fastest card for Doom 3 when this entry was made. The Radeon 9700 Pro was slightly slower on the ARB2 path than the FX5800 was on the NV3x path. However, if you ran the FX5800 on the ARB2 path it was half the speed of the 9700 Pro. It's important to note the ARB2 path is NOT an ATI-optimized one, but just the bog-standard OpenGL path.

However, Doom 3 does make extended use of shadows, and Nvidia has some very good shadow hardware in their NV3x cards. Basically, Doom 3 was a lot easier to optimize for Nvidia cards than HL2.

GeForce FX cards are going to be very good for Doom 3, but that may or may not transfer to other games. However, I am sure a 5700 or better will be a really good Doom 3 card. Unfortunately I don't think any amount of optimization will really make the FX5200 better than a mediocre game card.

[CrazyCrusher]

This is to funny, man why cant any post that’s got to do with ATI NVIDIA AMD or Intel be less of a slandering match,

as for you plaster I did not answer your Full Post/Question my dear boy you should read that a little closer as to what I said,

What I did say was in regards to your UT2K3 and UT2K4. Odd how the Radeons look and perform better in both games. etc etc,
And you say ur not playing mine is better, maybe you should read your post again.

as I said to you on that one, I have played both them games with both FX and ATI cards and see know difference, now I don’t think that has anything to do with most of what you said, and your reply to me on that one is paranoia. lol to funny all in good fun :)


Paranoia=A psychotic disorder characterized by delusions of persecution with or without grandeur, often strenuously defended with apparent logic and reason.;)

[CrazyCrusher]

Originally posted by Rugor
Ok here's what I got from John Carmack's .plan file. Its a bit old, and I'm going from memory but I am sure I have the substance of it.

I don't think any amount of optimization will really make the FX5200 better than a mediocre game card.

Rugor if only all the posts could be as good as yours, this would be a much safer threat :) well said.

[Plaster]

Originally posted by CrazyCrusher
What I did say was in regards to your UT2K3 and UT2K4. Odd how the Radeons look and perform better in both games. etc etc,
And you say ur not playing mine is better, maybe you should read your post again.

How is that playing "mine is better"?

http://www.tomshardware.com/graphic/20031229/vga-charts-03.html#unreal_tournament_2003

In each price point the ATi card is either faster or even with the nvidia product. That's saying that mine is better than yours? I don't even know wtf you have and vice versa. What my comment clearly stated is that the "nvidia the way it's meant to be played" intro is nothing more than an ad campaign. All of this was to refute the delusions of grandeur displayed by the original poster. UT was used as an example to back that up. If nvidia is the way it's meant to be played was anything more than an ad then please explain how those lowly ATi products are even within 25% of the nvidia products. Maybe you should read all of my posts in this thread again, Moron.

BTW, Hope you enjoy being on my ignored list. ;)

[BipolarBill]

Um, Doom 3 is an OpenGL game. nVidia's hardware does OpenGL better than ATi's.

[Plaster]

Originally posted by BipolarBill
Um, Doom 3 is an OpenGL game. nVidia's hardware does OpenGL better than ATi's.

ahem.
http://www6.tomshardware.com/graphic/20031229/vga-charts-05.html
;)

[BipolarBill]

Your point?

I said that nVidia did OGL better, not faster.

[MadPistol]

It's true. nvidia benches higher on the equivilant card class (comparing an FX 5900 and a 9700 Pro is a fair trial. a 5900 and a 9800XT is not)

[chriswhitelaw]

ok this post has gone on long enough I didn't mean for it to get this outta hand. if it's a marketing gimmick or some sort of ploy that will change in a few months then so be it. jeez la weez I just got tired of people here downing the FX 5200 try it out before you say something about it if you have not had it and are going by what you read then keep your month shut plain and simple and say nothing didn't your mama's teach you if you ain't got nothing nice to say then don't say it at all.

[Rugor]

It's not just speed-- Nvidia has a lot of OpenGL extensions that make coding OpenGL for their cards a snap.

ATI's OpenGL implementation has come a long way--- but it's still not as good as Nvidia's.

[Plaster]

Originally posted by chriswhitelaw
ok this post has gone on long enough I didn't mean for it to get this outta hand. if it's a marketing gimmick or some sort of ploy that will change in a few months then so be it. jeez la weez I just got tired of people here downing the FX 5200 try it out before you say something about it if you have not had it and are going by what you read then keep your month shut plain and simple and say nothing didn't your mama's teach you if you ain't got nothing nice to say then don't say it at all.

lol, you titled the thread "To all you FX video card haters!". What did you expect. :D

[RamonGTP]

Originally posted by MadPistol
It's true. nvidia benches higher on the equivilant card class (comparing an FX 5900 and a 9700 Pro is a fair trial. a 5900 and a 9800XT is not)

Its not true at all... OpenGL is what nVidia does SLIGHTLY better... Even then not always, as the link that plaster posted shows. But it falls way behind ATI in DX9.

And your comparisons aren't fair either...

5800 Ultra to the 9700Pro
5900 Ultra to the 9800Pro
5950 Ultra to the 9800XT

chriswhitelaw, sorry but the FX5200 is simply a bad card for gaming. No ifs ands or buts. I've never tried it, but I have tried the FX5600 and was very unimpressed, seeing that the 5600 is considerably faster than the 5200 I can justify saying that its not a gamers card by any stretch of the imagination.

[Plaster]

Originally posted by Rugor
It's not just speed-- Nvidia has a lot of OpenGL extensions that make coding OpenGL for their cards a snap.

ATI's OpenGL implementation has come a long way--- but it's still not as good as Nvidia's.

nvidia has a lot of proprietary OGL extensions. nvidia's implementation of OGL has a lot in common with 3dfx's glide.

[chriswhitelaw]

I just got tired of people here downing the FX 5200! I do believe I said this

you go by what you read on the internet or magazines about a card ok so the card is not top of line or it doesn't kick *** like the TI4600 or any ATI 9600 9800 or XT's but to me it's a good card for the money and it does excetly what I want it to do and that's play games

it's your opinion I just cut and paste the article from a repitiable site to see what kind of response I would get and to my typical surprise the people who down FX cards answered without failure

shows how typical you people have come!

[Plaster]

lol, dude, it's just a video card. It's not like they're making fun of you for buying it. Not unless they were part of Triumph the insult comic dog's Star Wars nerds street interviews. ;)

[chriswhitelaw]

sorry but the FX5200 is simply a bad card for gaming. No ifs ands or buts. I've never tried it

see there you go A OPINION! not a fact so what if you tried the 5600 and you THOUGHT, once again a opinion, it was better then the 5200 you guys have a 1 track mind seriously you think it's all about the video card but wait a minute here if memory serves me correctly you have to have a good system to backup that video card so to all the people who've been downing this card must have a weak ATI, AMD system!

[Rugor]

Originally posted by chriswhitelaw
ok this post has gone on long enough I didn't mean for it to get this outta hand. if it's a marketing gimmick or some sort of ploy that will change in a few months then so be it. jeez la weez I just got tired of people here downing the FX 5200 try it out before you say something about it if you have not had it and are going by what you read then keep your month shut plain and simple and say nothing didn't your mama's teach you if you ain't got nothing nice to say then don't say it at all.

One big point with the 5200 is that it's Nvidia's budget card at the bottom of the FX range. It has a slower and weaker core than any other FX card, and also lacks the Intellisample bandwidth saving technology on the higher models. It's a budget card targeted at the budget market. It is not a mainstream gaming card. It was neither designed nor marketed as one.

If the 5200 was really all you needed there would be no reason for Nvidia to produce the 5600/5700/5800/5900/5950 model cards, all of which outperform it. The 5600, which has since been superseded by the 5700 series, was aimed at the Ti4200 market. It had equivalent performance, and a better featureset. In a number of cases the FX5600 was slower than the Ti4200, but it had less of a hit from AA and AF, so using those let it nose ahead of its predecessor. The FX5200 is slower, it was designed to be slower. It's a perfectly functional budget solution but it's not a mainstream gaming card.

If you want the gaming mainstream you're looking at the $150-200 (U$) range. Get too far below that and you're in budget territory.

[RamonGTP]

What you fail to realize is that many of us who dog the FX line arent "anti-nVidia" and infact many owned nVidia cards. Before I made the switch to ATI i was a proud owner of a Ti4400, and before that, a GF2. I had nothing but praise for those cards becuase they were very good cards for their generation. nVidia's FX cards don't live up to the high expectations people have grown accustomed to from previous nVidia products.

Givin all the pro's and con's of the current crop of cards, ATI in my opinion is the superior card manufacturer and that is why I and many others switched. When I'm ready for my next upgrade, i'm not going to blindly choose ATI or nVidia, i'm gonna do my research and see which one I feel is the supriour card, as I did prior to my 9800 Pro purchase.

EDIT:
see there you go A OPINION! not a fact so what if you tried the 5600 and you THOUGHT, once again a opinion, it was better then the 5200 you guys have a 1 track mind seriously you think it's all about the video card but wait a minute here if memory serves me correctly you have to have a good system to backup that video card so to all the people who've been downing this card must have a weak ATI, AMD system!

The FX5600 IS better than the 5200... That is not my opinion, that is a proven fact.

My weak system scores 17500K in 3dmark01 and over 6k in 03... What does yours score? At QUALITY disply settings, not performance.

[Rugor]

I know I've had more Nvidia cards in my machine than ATI. I've not only used them myself but recommended and sold them to others.

However, when the FX series came out I did some research and determined that for this generation, ATI had the superior architecture. On the whole I still think the Gf4Ti series are better than ATI's R2xx and RV2xx series, and will normally recommend those cards.

I don't like some of the things Nvidia did-- but if NV4x cards turn out better than R4xx cards from ATI, my next upgrade will be back to Nvidia. However, if ATI is better I'll stay on the red rather than green side of the aisle.

[dragflameson]

Sorry this is kinda off topic, I cant really say much from experiance because I've never owed a ATI card ever, but what I can say from experiance is:

Nvidia + OpenGL = Mouse lag galore - And I did the research, I'm not the only one with this problem :(

[Bigjakkstaffa]

Ive been having long running problems with Nvidia drivers rendering all things open GL absoloutley pitch black even with brightness adjustments, meaning you have to switch to D3D to make out whats going on, onscreen

--Jakk:t

[Strawbs]

Originally posted by RamonGTP
What you fail to realize is that many of us who dog the FX line arent "anti-nVidia" and infact many owned nVidia cards. ...

Givin all the pro's and con's of the current crop of cards, ATI in my opinion is the superior card manufacturer and that is why I and many others switched. When I'm ready for my next upgrade, i'm not going to blindly choose ATI or nVidia, i'm gonna do my research and see which one I feel is the supriour card, as I did prior to my 9800 Pro purchase. ... Hallelujah! Praise the Lord!

:t

[CrazyCrusher]

Originally posted by Plaster
How is that playing "mine is better"?

http://www.tomshardware.com/graphic/20031229/vga-charts-03.html#unreal_tournament_2003

Moron.

BTW, Hope you enjoy being on my ignored list. ;)

wow look how mature you sound with your childish name calling, poor baby, and you have to put me on ignore list lol, what a baby. well goes to show you, you can give it but your little head cant take it eh. not really a forum for kids and name calling but hey if that makes you feel better slam away my boy:D

[CrazyCrusher]

Originally posted by Bigjakkstaffa
Ive been having long running problems with Nvidia drivers rendering all things open GL absoloutley pitch black even with brightness adjustments, meaning you have to switch to D3D to make out whats going on, onscreen

--Jakk:t

well I would have to agree with you on the driver side of that Jakks, but ATI's drives latly have not been much better. but as far as GL goes I have yet to run into any problems with mine, dont know maybe im lucky.

[Bigjakkstaffa]

Drivers no matter what the manufacturer are a funny beast depending upon your hardware, this is paticularly the case when your using unified driver for a number of products. For example recent Ati drivers have been very good apart from the odd issue introduced with the R9800, similarly over the years as the detonator drivers have grown up, older games have been neglected by them, often to the point where graphics dont render as they were intended to and the OGL issue i have for example, wasnt a problem with the 41.xx drivers.

Its all a simple case of using what works best for you, there is no need to update your drivers just because you can, i have been sat with the Cat 3.7's since they came out, because none of the newer drivers offered me anything until Cat 4.2, which i have now instyalled and am pleased with. On my second machine i upgraded to Forceware 55.03 and rather regret doign it, if that machine were used regularly for gaming i would most certainly go back to the 4x.xx series of drivers because the 5x.xx's have if anyhting, made things worse on that machine. Simialr things go for drivers fo any sort of hardware, no matter what the manufacturer, whenever a driver update fixes something, its almost certain that it will break something else, if you dotn want to run that risk, get a console

--Jakk:t

[chriswhitelaw]

If the 5200 was really all you needed there would be no reason for Nvidia to produce the 5600/5700/5800/5900/5950 model cards

wouldn't that also apply with ATI oh but that's right ATI is better then Nvidia by any standards.

[Bigjakkstaffa]

And the award for over-generalisation of the year goes too....

You cant say that Ati is better than Nvidia or vise versa because it all depends on what your comparing. General consensus is that the FX5200 is a rather **** card for gaming (which, for newer titles, it is). However if your limited to a PCI bus it is (IMO - though there are those who prefer the R9100) just about the best card you can get. Similarly, the 5700 is a faster card tham the 9600XT..when considering DX8 performance, however where DX9 performance is concerned, Ati has a definite upper hand. Similarly, if one was to compare the older Ati cards to their Nvidia competitors, i woudl take the NV every day, for me it is only in the resent years htat Ati have cleaned up their driver act (R8500 upover), that Ati have become a viable option IMO.

You cant say something is better than something else without knowing and considering the criteria upon which you are comparing the two. Just because someone slagged off the maker of your vide card in the context of a certain situation theres no need to get all snotty about it. Indeed to respond in such a snotty and generalised matter would suggest you have no real defense for the criticism being levelled at your card and that in all probability, your dissapointed with it youself, as most peopel who buy something and are happy with it, dont see the need to justify their purchase to others

--Jakk:t

[Rugor]

First, as a writer, my words are my stock in trade, and I don't appreciate being quoted without attribution.

If the 5200 was really all you needed there would be no reason for Nvidia to produce the 5600/5700/5800/5900/5950 model cards

Those were my words originally and I stand by them. Nvidia has made better cards than ATI, and no doubt will again. The FX5200 is certainly a better gaming card than the original Radeon, let alone any of the Rage cards.

However, while the FX5200 is a perfectly serviceable card for what it is, it is not only not the best choice for everyone, and nor is it always the best choice in its price range. Also, very few of us go around recommending the 9200SE to all and sundry, we are generally recommending the 9600 Pro to 9800 Pro depending on price. There's a huge jump from the budget sector to mainstream and performance cards.

I've stated the 5700 and above should be very good in Doom3-- and on the whole better for that game than competing ATI solutions. Whether that makes it a better card for someone depends on what else they play. But no matter how much they recommend GfFX GPUs it's highly unlikely the FX5200 will be a better Doom3 card than the 9600 Pro.

[RamonGTP]

Originally posted by chriswhitelaw
If the 5200 was really all you needed there would be no reason for Nvidia to produce the 5600/5700/5800/5900/5950 model cards

wouldn't that also apply with ATI oh but that's right ATI is better then Nvidia by any standards.

The ony person that said ATI is better than nVidia by any standards is YOU. Like Rugor said, I too would never recommend a 9200SE, or even a 9200 as a gaming card.

[causticVapor]

Marketing really does work. ;)

[Someone Stupid]

I think this was a rather well chosen topic to pick to get the whole vid card forum to reply back to. Nice trolling attempt, very nice. This made news? Games have had paid marketting on them for years, doesn't mean it is an endorsement they would have made for free (in fact I can't think of ONE endorsement on a game that I've seen that was free).

[bob05]

Originally posted by Bigjakkstaffa
.

In my second machine i upgraded to Forceware 55.03 and rather regret doign it, if that machine were used regularly for gaming i would most certainly go back to the 4x.xx series of drivers because the 5x.xx's have if anyhting, made things worse on that machine. Simialr things go for drivers fo any sort of hardware, no matter what the manufacturer, whenever a driver update fixes something, its almost certain that it will break something else, if you dotn want to run that risk, get a console

--Jakk:t

I just stick to WHQL, officially released Nvidia drivers. :t

[Bigjakkstaffa]

My experience is even the WHQL's are much less than perfect nowadays in terms of introducing new issues, the only recent set that ive been fully satisfied with are the 41.09's and theyre getting on for well over a year odl now. In fact ive recently downgraded my drivers to Det 30.82 on the basis of some research ive been doing. eesh, i remember the good ol days of the 23.11's - now there was a driver set :x

--Jakk:t

[causticVapor]

40.72 and then it all went downhill for the 4Ti series :(

[bob05]

Originally posted by causticVapor
40.72 and then it all went downhill for the 4Ti series :(

Geforce 4 Ti is the key word there. The Det. 45's and up was tailored for the Geforce FX series. :t