Does Intel support AMD? Ask Sony!/Twist/it's a SONY!/Guess who called?/Remedy?/JOKE

[MegalosSkylos]

We purchased SONY Vaio PCV-J150 computer but no hard-copy Manuel. Hard-drive says to go to SONY Support website for "Reference Manual" but none is online for PCV-J150.
Call SONY Support which insists Mobo has Intel chipset and Amd Duron processor. Not possible I say but SONY Tech Computer says itis so according to Tech Support Computer. Call Sony President's Office. Ms. LM insists Intel chipset and Duron CPU. Later get backpeddling phonecall from SONY that reason told this is that Intel somehow secreted its Video and Codec solutions into chipset (actually SIS730S chipset) which boggles the mind. Customer Support has to go to internet sites to figure out what mobo it has in PCV-J150!
Sony tells me to go to AMD to find out if I can replace Duron with Athlon as if AMD job to provide Tech support for Sony computers.
Does Intel support AMD? Ask SONY!

[Emc2]

I don't know if that's true, but hey, if it works out the way SONY says it should you'll get a better processor!

[MegalosSkylos]

Dear EMc2,
I was trying to geta more powerful CPU , that's why I had to go through hours of difficulty with SONY which has apparently taken the position that they don't have to provide info about their computer as "SONY discourages Upgrdes". I heard this all the way up to Presidents office.
If that is the case, in my opinion , they should post yellow cautionary stickers on the two remaing upgrade slots to this effect and a Caution on the front that due to a lack of info, the computer is all but non-upgradeable.
In my opinion, it is deceptive to sell a computer with upgrade slots while refusing to provide adequte information or a proper Manual by any medium to allow their use
And did I mention, they have a fax-back FAQ system which even Customer Support admits is dysfunctional.
On an other occassion , Tech suggested that in the absence of a Manual, I should use the Manual for another SONY computer. This is obfuscation. Thanx for your reply.

[AMDfreak71]

Before you run out and buy a Athlon to put in that sony mack sure that they never put a 185 watt power supply in it like HP does with there 1.2 gig sys and cant figer out why it will not run right

[MegalosSkylos]

Dear AMDfreak71,
That was another question which was notin the SONY non-Manual and which drew the obligatory "I don't w" response from SONY.
The case design makes it necessary to disassemble the rear to see any power sticker.
In my opinion SONY doesn't tell it Techs the 3.3v, 5v, and 12v power etc to preclude any update of its computer. ("SONY discourages the upgrade of its computers"). I also can't believe that in four months nobody was biting their tongues when they told me Intel chipset-supports-AMD CPU". Thanx for the reply.

[MegalosSkylos]

Here is a new twist on problems in ID-ing mobo: Called SONY Tech Support to ask it about VAIO pcv-J150 because hard drive Manual refers upgrade questions to non-existent "Reference Manual" on Web.
Sony says "Polestar'. Who makes polestar. "Don't know',is reply makes Chipset? "Intel". How can Intel be making chipset to support AMD (its arch-competitor) CPU? This goes on for months. Call main office. Told that SONY troubleshooter coudn't get answer from SONY so he goes to Tech sites like this one to try to narrow the field of possible mobo's. Now this is SONY employee!!!
Has anybody tried to use the SONY fax-back system for info, by the way?Five months told SONY mantra:"SONY discourages updates".Still no "Reference Manual". Can SONY upgrade Tech Support? I call Sony Prez office--get respondent who apparently wants to 'win' customer contact rather than resolve issue of why Company doesn't know what mobo it is putting into its VAIO pCV-J150 computer.

[Comage]

Well, amusing as it might seem to me, I feel kinda sorry that you're having such problems.

That's just one of the few reasons why I personally don't like getting a packaged computer. http://www.sysopt.com/forum/smile.gif

[MegalosSkylos]

Thank you for your kind words, Comage, but having gone the store bought route, I feel there shoud be a remedyto this kind of hubris.
Please see my question at the General Tech Forum. Thanx again.

[elroy]

WELCOME TO SYSOPT, FYI- I saw your post regarding your Sony machine in another forum. The rules here forbid posting the same message to more than 1 forum. If you do the moderator will get you. I know you're new and probably weren't aware so I thought I'd mention it. I left a reply to your other post.

[Comage]

Hello again, maybe you might want to go to download.com and download Sisoft Sandra to try to identify your motherbord?

Hope it helps. http://www.sysopt.com/forum/smile.gif

[MegalosSkylos]

UPDATE:
Contacting Intel which is , of course, understandably unaware it is supporting AMD CPU... has CPU of its own.

Perhaps SONY will upgrade its non-support site with the promised Reference Manual and figure out what chipset manufacturer is actually driving the Duron CPU. Poor SIS, workred so hard to build 730S but gets the Rodney Dangerfield "no respect".

Srr my posting about corperative ethics in General Tech forum.

[Psycho Logical]

This whole situation is really not that unusual. If you wanted full tech manuals, you should have avoided any vendor-built system.

You would not get manuals, or detailed PS specs and upgrade info with any system from HP, Compaq, Dell, Gateway, IBM, etc.

For one thing, this is a low-end model, intended for a mass-market audience, sold online and at the "big box" stores.

If you bought it thinking it was a starter system you could expand, tweak, and turn into a powerhouse, you made a mistake.

If you thought you were going to get component-level support, you were wrong. The best you will get is the repair or replacement of defective parts.

Most of these type systems use a motherboard built by second-tier manufacturers on a OEM contract basis, and the board itself is not available for sale at retail. There may never have been a manual.

The whole thing sold new for $500-600, including the Duron, a 30G HD, a CDRW, the bundled software, and whatever else came with it. This includes profit for the manufacturer, distributor, and the retailer. Surely you didn't expect it to have the same features and growth potential, or to perform at the same level as a $2000 system.

[MegalosSkylos]

Dear Psych Logical,

When we purchased the SONY Vaio Pcv J150, I was under no illusion this was anything other than a relatively entry level machine with a nice video/digital software package from a reputable quality manufacturer.

I made the reasonable inference that having two unused PCI slots (out of four), I could instal a basic TNT2 Video card with TV-out as I need to lie down a lot due to spine injury.

Additionally, that I could install a SoundBlaster 5.1 as VaIO was going into LR near streo/TV with 5.1 sound.

Now neither a Vid or sound card require arcane or obscure information. i would have settled for stuff like fan connector for additional cooling, a diagram of the mobo, power supply without having to disassembe etc.

Additionally, I wanted to reserve the option of Athlon once warrenty expired or replacing the system-resource eating PCI winmodem wth hardware/DSP modem or external.

Moreover, WIN 98/ME dual monitor with the onboard AGP and my add-on PCI Vid card didn't seem all that far-fetched.

Remember, SONY represents that it has an online "Reference Manual" on the hard-line "manual" in regard to upgrades! This does not require a reasonable inference--it is there! Only the referenced on-web "Reference Manual" is missing!

I don't feel I was unduly naive in expecting a reputable Company to keep its word. You might say they are "in denial". Certainly, they could have straightened out that Intel business on a Duron computer after four months and this reaching management.

[MegalosSkylos]

Thank you elroy for bringing this to my attention. i appreciate your help you've given me in other forums and also your helpful intent here.

Actually, i was trying to focus on corperative responsiibilty in other posting and more narrowly on mysterious mobo in this one. However, there is a degree of overlap so I can see where you're coming and see your point.

Actually, i was just planning to post a topic about how good this web-site and particularly how well Fingers has struck a balance between candor and courtesy in keeping the postings fluid and productive.

I was a teaching assistant once and i vowed not to let the TA group degenerate into one or two people's private monologues at the expense of others.
Thanks again and I'll hasten to your words.

[Wizzard~Of~Ozz]

The only board that fits SocketA with 512 Mb max is this one.
http://www.anandtech.com/showdoc.html?i=1329

It's a chaintech, does yours have onboard Nvidia TNT2? The only spec that doesn't match is the ATA100/66 spec that sony gives, but that can be an expander card or custom board change. but open your case and see if it's similar.

[MegalosSkylos]

Dear Wizzard~of~Oz,

I went through several possibilities but finally settles on the ASUS A7S-vm which is a microATX board with SIS 730S chipset. The later has the SIS 300 GPU as intergrated "direct AGP" solution. The kind gentleman who called me from SONY in Ft. Myers came to the same conclusion . Being more experienced , he was able to research the usual suspect tech websites to narrow it down.

Note that he had to resort to websurfing because the Company that employs him and assigned him to my complaint to SONY management apparently was unable or unwilling to provide him with reliable tech information. This alone suggests a serious internal problem and given the several months of SONY's Intel-n-AMD position which must have caught somebodies attention there , especially as I tried valiantly to dispel this and get the "true facts" along with some decent Manual given SONY's representation of an on-web "Reference Manual".
At one point I asked if there is some written documentation I might have, I was told there was a "Service Manual" I could buy (!) for $10 plus shipping and referred to Parts. Parts , inturn denied the existence of such a "Service Manual" but later sold it to me for $12.50 including shipping. Largely exploded diagrams of case.

the Sony troubleshooter was responsive and always cordial and recognized that there was a problem in the support for this unit,and seemed to extend himself rather than sonewalling or obfuscating the problems. However, he himself seemed caught in the middle between a customer with ligitimate complaints and --I suspect IMO-- a corperative culture of obfuscation. I also suspect this because I can't believe all those computer-savvy Techs really believed the Intel chipset/AMD CPU info contained in the SONY database.

When no meaningful progress was forthcoming, I contacted the SONY President's Office in NYC. The respondent kept trying to divert the subject to info for third-party add-ons. I kept refocusing her to SONY info for first-part SONY computer.She tried to justify the unjustifiable SONY suggestion I contact AMD to find if the SONY-used mobo in the SONY marketed and sold SONY-computer could support an Athlon with its SONY-revision BIOS and I could find out myself the properties of the Athlon, thank you. Hey, i wasn't asking about what was in the Athlon but what was in the SONY.

"Winning" by diversion IMO is a poor subtitute for resolution by living up to its representations.

Thanks again for the homework and I'll keep you in touch. Perhaps fairer heads--like Mr. TC in Ft. Myers--may still prevail.

[Wizzard~Of~Ozz]

After seeing that one I have to wonder why that didn't come up in a search, but why does it say 1Gb of mem yet your comp has only 512 max.

I love seeing this line.

Support of an additional AGP connector in 4X mode and of a data transfer protocol Fast writes.

Saw it on almost every integrated video boards specs. support of an ADDITIONAL, What do you have to do solder it to the board? Just thought it was humorous.

Ah well, Take care and good luck with your SONY computer. BTW. Did I mention that I Hate store builts, had to work on a friends old Packard Bell, they are so kind as to not list ANY of the hardware so you can get drivers, and it's a net hunting you go.

[MegalosSkylos]

Dear Wizzard~of~Oz,
The Sis 730s reference board (see Anandtech "Will Duron finally be allowed to suceed?" lists an AGP slot but the PCV-J150 eschews this in favor of an additional PCI slot which SONY then won't support. The mega-ram claims are not uncommon for Chipsets but SONY probably wisely limited the mem to two 256mb probably because 512mb SDRAM were not "mainstream" when Comp built.
Anyhow, call Sony Tech and see if they tell you SIS730S or Intel 810. One frustrered SONY Tech who couln't find the promised "Reference Manual" either suggested I rely on the PCV J120 computer Reference Manual online because "they are similar"! Huh? J120 is all-Intel machine.

[MegalosSkylos]

Dear Colleagues,

Remember the ad compaign a couple of decades ago, "It's a SONY" (I know, I'm dating myself).

In my previous post on "Any Remedy for Company Misrepresenting..", here and elsewhere , I receives the suggestion I check with Device Manager to discover the true chipset which SONY maintained for over four months driving the Duron CPU on the VAIO desktop PCV-J150, was an Intel--which I of course questioned right up to the Presidents Office.

Device Manager reveals the USB controller is the SIS 7001 PCI to USB etc. and the Display controller to be the SIS 730S. I had repeatedly informed SONY of the SIS 730S chipset and eventually received confirmation from a Senior Tech and a SONY troubleshooter.

Of course SONY didn't bother to change its database or to post the promised "Reference Manual" on its Website.

One post --and this theme has been repeated-- is that SONY has a "firewall" around itself. Oddly, that was my very feeling when I had to deal with a spokesperson who kept trying to divert attention from its deficiencies (like the missing Reference Manual).

I am contemplating a an internet petition of these "firewall" experiences with SONY.

Is this possible? Any ideas,anybody.

I realize this may seem like a small problem in the larger scale of things. But if something so overt can't be rectified, how can more "gray area" problems be addressed.

I'd like to see the customers win!

Thanks for any suggestions.

[otheos]

My personal experiences with Sony made me a "Sony hater". I avoid Sony like vampires sunlight, in all their branded products (PC/Hi-Fi/Video etc)

[This message has been edited by otheos (edited 09-13-2001).]

[jman01pa]

I am a major fan of Sony. But only with audio/video equipment. Computer hardware with their mark I stay away from.

J http://www.sysopt.com/forum/smile.gif

[Comage]

From my personal experience, I found out that companies which manufacture computer-related products ONLY have far more better quality customer support and online support than companies which manufacture computer-related products and other products (e.g., home appliances, audio/video equipment).

Sony is one of them which I have experienced very poor online support. I own a Sony writer, and they never even put up the firmware updates at their website (they did release one). I had to look around the Internet and download the official firmware update from a personal webspace.

[dopefeedback]

All I can say is that I haven't had least bit of help from the Sony Online so called support when trying to find out how to get my cd-writer to work...I will never buy anything from Sony for my computer again. That's my view of this issue, but that was what you wanted to know right? :)

/Agent Embryo

[MegalosSkylos]

Dear dopefeedback,

Please don't take this the wrong way, but the only thing I want to learn is the truth. I am sure every thing you've posted here is the truth, but the point is;

How do we the customers deal with this kind of treatment? If we can't do anything about it when I can print out the hard drive statement that I go to the SONY support site to "download" a "Reference Manual" that doesn't exist on-line, or anybody can call SONY support on their "telephone us" number and verify that SONY is putting out that the PCV-J150 has an Intel 810 chipset supporting an AMD Duron chipset, when can we win?

You get what you are willing to put up with. I am not willing to put up with this treatment.

I need help to bring this, in my opinion, gross disregard for the customers who help make SONY a great Company.

If anybody has had a good experience with SONY about a computer, they should post the truth. The customer is not always right . But what I picked up on when I called the SONY President's Office is an official Position, in my opinion, that the customer is by definition wrong.

Thank you for your i know sincere help.

[ticktack]

I guess you can't be wrong with an Trinitron Tube. I have an Dell 15"inch using Trinitron Tube and compared to my LG 795ft+ Flatron. It's almost similar in gfx quality....except that there might be some acclaimed damper wires lines found on the wider screen, but not on my smaller 15"incher.

[MegalosSkylos]

Dear ticktack,

I don't deny that SONY has earned --as I believed-- a reputation for premium quality.

That's one of the reasons we purchased the VAIO PCV-J150.

The issue here is failing to provide a viable manual i.e. the "Reference Manual" it promises.

The issue is failing to correct an obvious--blatantly obvious--error in its data base for over five months we've owned it. Many people are aware AMD and Intel are competitors. Aren't their Techs allowed to bring errors to the attention of Supervisors.

The issue is telling me to use the Manual (posted at its Support site) for ANOTHER (PCV-J20) Intel- based computer in lieu of keeping its wordabout the J150 Manual.

The issue is referring me to AMD to provide basic technical support for a SONY computer.

Most of all, the issue is to take the position that a customer complaint to mangement should be won by stonewalling, than resolved by truthsaying.

I am also a person with disabilities, so the lack of the "Reference Manual" falls more harshly on me.

[MegalosSkylos]

After complaint to SONY HQ that I had called SONY HQ to ask , "Who is your Equal Opportunity Officer" and got connected to Tech who responded to question, "What is your position with SONY?" with "I won't get into legal mumbo-jumbo".

Received call from SONY about my long-standing (like five months) request for the System Reference Manual SONY promises and hyperlinks their computer to Support Site where it is, according to SONY, posted.

"A misprint", I'm told. "No Reference Manual"

"A misprint and all these people and five months to figure it out?"

Watch there Support site to see if SONY notes all just a misprint--no "Reference Manual Here!"

"Well get a Reference Manual", I say.
"What's a Reference Manual", asks SONY.
Sony promised it for their VAIO J150 desktp so ought to know. Seemed to know for VAIO J-120.

" It a booklet with info about J-connectors, BIOS settings etc.like the 100 page Reference Manual you have posted for J-120."

Funny, what a difference a day makes!
This is the same SONY that clung to position that J-150 hAS iNTEL CHIPSET SUPPORTING dURON PROCESSOR AFTER it had been bought to their attention--like five months ago!

Stay tuned.

[club_med]

"What's a Reference Manual", asks SONY


Hehe thats a good one.

[MegalosSkylos]

Received emailed PDF from SONY regarding my request for five months of System Reference Manual which VAIO PCV-J150 says is posted on SONY website but is Not There!

"This should be the manual that you are looking for..." SONY email states.

Almost like a sick job PDF says "You can download the System Reference Manaul from the SONY website at

http://www.sony.com/pcsupport "

Apparently SONY is sufficiently aware that it promises to have a Reference Manual on its website that it can email to me the promise!

Is anybody thinking at SONY? Or are they planning to let die the desktop computer division and this is just a preamble?

[Steve R Jones]

I don't get it. The manual you've been wanting for five months was there all along and you cound't find it?

Providing info off the internet is the norm these days. Instead of waiting another five months to mail it you, you can have it today!

[MegalosSkylos]

Dear Steve R Jones:

Please check the referenced Sony Support site to see if there is a "Reference Manual" for SONY PCV J-150 and then we'll talk.

I didn't refer to it as a "joke e-mail" for nuthin'

I've been complaining to SONY about their failure to actually post the "Reference Manual" so in lieu of the Reference Manual they send me the promise. Huh?

[MegalosSkylos]

SONY has e-mailed me "This should me manual that you you are looking for.." with an attached PDF which stated "You can download the System Reference Manual from the SONY Web site at

http://www.sony.com/pcsupport "

I'm I missing something or did SONY just reiterate an empty promise instead of keeping the promise.

Is there a Reference Manual for the PCV-J150 there that only I can't see?

The problem from the beginning, in my opinion, is that SONY does not respect the intelligence of people who purchase their computers.

[jman01pa]

Why is Sony even in the computer business?

J :)

[surrealchereal]

Hey now! You're spoiling all their fun! They want to be like Compaq! They need sheep for customers! now stop that :D

[crazyray]

I own a Sony Digital Studio Series 522 PC. I got it at (what was then) a good price, and it has worked flawlessly. From your experiences with their tech support, it would appear my good luck is especially fortunate.

[surrealchereal]

cr, great avatar.. :)

[MegalosSkylos]

Dear Crazy Ray,

Did the DS 522 come with a System Manual?
Have you upgraded it since?
Was information like J-Connectors settings, BIOS settings available to you during this time for reference?

All I gotton from SONY Tech in response to hardware questions is "SONY discourages upgrades."

I've reviewed the documentation for older machines compared to newer ones. Go to Web site and you'll notice a differrence.

One wonders if SONY intends to stay in desktop end of business or is set to make "orphans" of whoever buys its desktops?

Problem not with the machine per se, but the Company that supports ( "SONY discourages upgrades" ) the machine.

Does the fax-back system for queries work flawlessly? Have you used it?

Please let me know about the documentation you've received with your DS. Thanks for your reply.

[MegalosSkylos]

In the immortal words of Bob Marley.

Do not think it a waste of time, or that you are defeated in advance, when a Company fails to keep its word to you.

Remember, they may even have a strategy of Blowaway of Customers throgh referrals, denials, etc.

Bit when you pursue the matter, you make it easier for the next person to deal with that Company. If you give up, only harder.

You, your relatives, friends, neighbors may be the next person--even if its a Company you yourself would never deal with again.

--------------------------------------------
"For as sure as the Sun will rise..."

As some of you may know from some postings , I have been pursuing the matter with SONY to post the " System Reference Manual" for the VAIO PCV-J150 desktop computer. SONY promised this and did not deliver. I pursued the matter for almost half a year.

--------------------------------------------
"For the Harder they Come..."

Today , I received a phone call that the Document will--finally--be posted where promised--on its Web Support Site.
I graciously thanked SONY and do so publicly.


P.S. Now we can address the issue of why this happened in the first place necessitating hours and hours of effort, and how to remedy that situation.

I thank those of you who supported me through this matter and I respect the right to their opinions of those who felt the struggle was doomed from the beginning.

With credit to the late Bob Marley for his inspirational words, which like most inspirational words, work best with those who know it already!
And THANK YOU SONY.