Anyone using 512MB of RAM with Win98SE?

[Dudster]

Hi all

My Specs:
Win98SE w/ DirectX8
800 MHz T-Bird
ASUS A7V motherboard w/ BIOS ver. 1007 (4.31 Via 4in1s)
Leadtek GeForce3 TD
Sound Blaster Live!
30GB IBM 75GXP ATA100 7200rpm drive (primary connected to Promise controller)
10GB WD ATA66rpm drive (swapfile @512MB minimum and no maximum. Yeah I know but I've got plenty of space http://www.sysopt.com/forum/smile.gif)

I've just ordered another 256MB CAS2 PC133 stick from Crucial.com which will bring me up to 512MB. It was only £30 (with VAT) and I recently read somewhere that the prices might go up again soon. Plus I'll prolly get WinXP eventually and 512MB would really come in handy with that OS.

After reading this Microsoft Knowledge Base article (http://support.microsoft.com/support/kb/articles/Q253/9/12.ASP) , it looks like everything will be fine (any more RAM and I would have to limit the Vcache). I'm also going to try setting the AGP aperture size to 256MB and change my settings in Quake3 to Hunkmegs 255MB, Sound and Zonemegs to 64MB.

Does anyone know of any issues that I should be aware of?

Also, should I set my machine to "Network Server" instead of "Desktop Computer"? What does this setting do and should it already be set to Network Server?

Cheers

Edit: Oh yeah, should I enable the "Conservative Swapfile Usage" option and should that setting already be enabled with 256MB?

[This message has been edited by Dudster (edited 08-25-2001).]

[Bovon]

I just finished putting together a small older SS7 system using a Tyam S1598 board in a dual boot, Win98SE / Win2K and I used 512 mb Crucial PC133 cas2 ram, it worked just fine. I also used some hints from the following link by NDS one of this forums moderators.

Read here for those hints (http://forums.digitalmntsnow.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=50&FORUM_ID=7&CAT_ID=5&Topic_Title=Win98+%2D+Making+Better+Usage+Of+Physi cal+Memory&Forum_Title=Tips%2C+Tricks+%26+Referenc e)

I have my machine set for network server, but left the last one set to desktop computer. That one has been shipped to my daughter in another state.

Hmmmm...the above url coding didn't work...so, here it is again...
http://forums.digitalmntsnow.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=50&FORUM_ID=7&CAT_ID=5&Topic_Title=Win98+%2D+Making+Better+Usage+Of+Physi cal+Memory&Forum_Title=Tips%2C+Tricks+%26+Reference




[This message has been edited by Bovon (edited 08-25-2001).]

[Dudster]

Thanks Bovon http://www.sysopt.com/forum/smile.gif

So I should set Conservative Swapfile Usage to 1 then. I'm still in the dark about the Network Server option. I guess I'll just try it.

Hmmmm...the above url coding didn't work...so, here it is again...
I just copied and pasted the url anyway http://www.sysopt.com/forum/smile.gif Maybe it was because there was a space in the url?

[Fingers]

I've got a Tyan 1854 and a Asus CUSL2-C running 512MB with Win98SE. Windows is managing the swap file, and I disabled the "ConservativeSwapfile" option after upgrading from 256MB. I am running as a "network server" but I don't remember why... http://www.sysopt.com/forum/wink.gif

PS, I initially thought that 512MB wouldn't work in the Tyan because I got BSOD every time I booted, but the problem was solved by skipping DIMM socket 2 and using 1 & 3 ... go figure? LOL

[Bsdboy]

I've got 512,I am running as a network server and I do have Conservative Swapfile Usage enabled.

Bsdboy

[Dudster]

Fingers:
I disabled the "ConservativeSwapfile" option after upgrading from 256MB
http://www.sysopt.com/forum/smile.gif Now I'm confused! Why did you do that (if you can remember http://www.sysopt.com/forum/wink.gif).
Fingers:
the problem was solved by skipping DIMM socket 2 and using 1 & 3
LOL Bizarre. I wouldn't've even thought of trying that.

Bsdboy... http://www.sysopt.com/forum/smile.gif Cheers. It's lookin good for the Network Server option (whatever it does http://www.sysopt.com/forum/biggrin.gif). And apart from being a bit confused by Fingers, so is the Conservativeswapfileusage.

Edit: Oh yeah, I forgot to point out that my PC is primarily for gaming if that makes any difference.

[This message has been edited by Dudster (edited 08-25-2001).]

[DiscoLando]

Just my .02, I ran 98SE with 512meg RAM with no problems for several months. I had no noticable increase in performance when I turned on conservative swapfile usage, however.

[Dudster]

Thanks DiscoLando http://www.sysopt.com/forum/smile.gif
I had no noticable increase in performance when I turned on conservative swapfile usage, however.
Oh well. If I get less of the little pauses when playing games, I'll be happy.

[sharder8]

My son's 400 K6-2, running W98, 512k, server
My daugher's 722 PIII running W98SE, 512k,server
My 800 Athlon, running W98SE, 512, server

All ran smooth, now all are running W2000Pro! Soon all will be running WinXP (Hopefully)!

Harder

[Dudster]

http://www.sysopt.com/forum/smile.gif Thanks sharder8

I think that's a go for Network Server. Did you use the Conservativeswapfileusage option when you used Win98SE?

Fingers... Please tell me why you disabled conservativeswapfile when you upgraded from 256MB http://www.sysopt.com/forum/smile.gif

[Fingers]

Sorry about that Dudster...

"ConservativeSwapfile" was something I tried because I was tired of waiting for the swapfile to finish swapping when I was using 128MB. When I went to 256MB, it didn't seem to make a difference because the swap file wasn't used that much anyway. When I upped the memory to 512MB, I had compatability problem (described above) and disabled "ConservativeSwapfile" because I thought that might be part of the problem.

With 512MB my swapfile is hardly ever used. Right now, my swapfile is at 0KB, and I've been running for 24 hours... can't get much more "conservative" than that http://www.sysopt.com/forum/wink.gif I haven't done extensive testing, but it just appears to me that "ConservativeSwapfile" doesn't have much affect with this much memory.

[Cody]

I can't get WinMe to run with that much ram... hrrrm

[Raydeo Ray]

http://users.aol.com/axcel216/newtip16.htm

The above will take you a fellow who does some pretty interesting registry hacks. I just tried the one regarding Max File Cache(adds more options to file performance). He goes into this "Network Server" business pretty well. Rather fascinating site...Off to www.pcpitstop.com (http://www.pcpitstop.com) to test the hard drive performance.

[Brian48]

My next box, which I'll be building this week, will have 512mb of DDR. I normally dual boot so all that memory comes in handy for Win2k, but for Win98SE, it's really more than I or the OS will ever need. I'd recommend, since you have RAM to spare, that you consider creating a 64mb or 128 RAM drive in addition to all the tweaks you're using. Since you have it, you might as well put it use.

[Dudster]

Fingers... http://www.sysopt.com/forum/smile.gif Thanks for that. It didn't even enter my head the reason could've just been that it wasn't necessary. When I fit the memory, I think I'll leave Conservativeswapfile disabled to start with just to see. Then unless I get perfect performance (i.e. my games never skip), I'll try enabling it.

Cody... I've no idea why you can't get WinME to work with 512MB http://www.sysopt.com/forum/smile.gif Everything seems to suggest that it should work fine. Maybe the reason it didn't work wasn't to do with WinME?

Raydeo Ray... http://www.sysopt.com/forum/smile.gif Thanks, and I've bookmarked that tips site (an excellent explaination of the Network Server option). So the Network Server option really is one of those essential little tweaks. And there are also even higher performing versions of it (available via the registry)! I'll just stick with standard Network Server for now though.

Brian48... http://www.sysopt.com/forum/smile.gif Thanks. I will keep an eye out for any info on RAM drives (though I'm not sure what benfit I would get from having one). Will I really have that RAM to spare? When I'm playing Quake3, it'll have 383MB allocated to it. My Vcache will be unlimited and my AGP aperture will probably be 256MB.

[wyvrn]

I am and report no problems whatsoever. Windows didn't even bother with a swapfile, so I haven't use the cconsservativeswap trick yet.

[Dudster]

Thanks wyvrn http://www.sysopt.com/forum/smile.gif

[jusafan]

I just installed 512MB of Crucial (up from 128MB) and found 98SE actually runs a little slower. Using an FIC VA-503+, AMD K6-2 400, 98SE, cacheman settings (a great little free, postcardware cache manager), things that used to pop up now have a slight delay before appearing. Seems like somewhere long ago that I read you needed to run 98 setup again after installing 512 MB of ram. Anyone else aware of this?

[Dudster]

http://www.sysopt.com/forum/frown.gif Oh dear, I don't like the sound of that. Still, if that's the case but my games are smoother, I'll still be happy http://www.sysopt.com/forum/smile.gif

BTW, what are your settings in Cacheman?

Thanks http://www.sysopt.com/forum/smile.gif

[jusafan]

I'm using the older v3.80 of Cacheman and I believe it's set for Standard System. I tried turning the swap file off (Disable Swap File Usage in Virtual Memory Settings) and setting it to a fixed number (700MB), but nothing seems to improve the situation. I haven't had any problems with the memory(BSOD's, FE's or PF's), but I'm not sure if it's HD or Low Density. It's just noticeable that the system has slight pauses after I pulled the Simple brand memory stick of 128MB of PC100 and stuck in the 512MB. I don't mean hangs or anything like that, just that things takes a few more ticks before opening.

[Dudster]

Ok Thanks http://www.sysopt.com/forum/smile.gif I guess I'll just have to wait and see.

[moebius]

With 512Mb of ram, and 98SE, you might want to play with ramdrives. They're pretty cool. And SUPER FAST.

[Dudster]

http://www.sysopt.com/forum/smile.gif Thanks moebius but what are they good for?

[JayMan]

I here am using 640MB (1 stick of 128 and 1 stick of 512 PC133), with win98se, havent had any probs, iim running as network server and have conservative swap file enabled. Computer is nice n stable even with heaps and heaps of proggy's running it still stays nice n fast. I got 1Ghz tbird on a gigabyte GA-7ZXR mobo with geforce2PRO 64MB DDR card.

Will check out some of those tips above.

JayMan

[Raydeo Ray]

I posted this same question myself about 6months ago after installing 98SE on a new system: the replies seemed to point to 256M as the "sweet spot" for 98SE...Am using a stick of Kingston 128M PC133 with very good results(but still waiting on my rebate since Dec2000!!)Found that I can run this CAS3 stick@ CAS2 @(100M fsb)with no problems. Greatly improved my Sandra memory test scores. Still debating on whether or not I need more memory(or if the computer does...)
BYW: The Registry "hack" referred to in my previous post really worked. "Merging" to the registry was all new to me, so just had to try it(after backing up the reg). Now, File System Performance shows: Medium,Large,Max,and Super."Looks good on paper..." and no problems thus far. My hard drive tests at pcpitstop now up an average of 30%. I think it's time now to get away from this computer and go find a Real job...
Regards,

[moebius]

When you set up a ramdrive, everytime you boot up, your computer partitions part of the ram and makes it look like another partition on your hard drive.
Say out of 512Mb, you set 128Mb as the ramdrive. Now you only have 384Mb of ram. Not to worry 'cos from what i've read, windows98 doesn't use anything over 256Mb efficiently. The 128Mb will appear as another hard drive on your computer; except, it will have a chip icon and it's incredibly fast.
What i did (i have winME now, ramdrives don't work on ME) with the ramdrive was to set up the temporary internet files folder and all the temp folders on the ram drive. You do this by modifying the autoexec.bat file. Because everything in ram is erased when you turn off the computer, this is the ultimate security. Also, i used the ramdrive for unzipping archives and installing from. It's incredibly fast.

[Dudster]

JayMan... http://www.sysopt.com/forum/smile.gif Thanks

Raydeo Ray... http://www.sysopt.com/forum/smile.gif Thanks, if my machine really is slower (including games) with 512MB, I might just take it out and store it till I get WinXP (When memory prices may well be higher).

So unless I'm mistaken, once you've unlocked the extra File System options in the registry, they become selectable from the same place you can select "Desktop Computer" and "Network Server". I do like the sound of that http://www.sysopt.com/forum/biggrin.gif

moebius... http://www.sysopt.com/forum/smile.gif Thanks for that. A RAM drive does sound quite useful then (I couldn't for the life of me think of a use for one). I just might try it.

--------------------------------------------
So, it looks like everything'll be fine but there's a small chance I'll have problems. Either way, I'll post the results.

[Raydeo Ray]

Dudster: Yes, when you go to select your file system performance, you now get a dropdown menu that includes the new options. Naturally, I opted for the "Super Cache"... Very clever,these Americans...
If your memory is 256M sticks, why not just yank one out and see what you get? Or perhaps that Vcache change would be in order?? Regards,

[Dudster]

If your memory is 256M sticks, why not just yank one out and see what you get?
http://www.sysopt.com/forum/smile.gif I'm not quite sure what you mean but I assume you mean try dropping back to 256MB if things don't turn out well. I currently have 1 stick of 256 and will be fitting another when it arrives in a few days.

Yeah good point, If I do have problems with 512MB, it'll probably be worth trying a maxfile cache of 64MB or something.

Cheers

[Brian48]

If you're looking for more info regarding RAM drives, GO HERE (http://home.earthlink.net/~chinmonster/links/index_links.htm) and scroll down to the RAM section. You should be able to find everything you need about it.

[Dudster]

http://www.sysopt.com/forum/smile.gif Thanks Brian48. That's an excellent link.

[JayMan]

I just set up a 256MB ram drive (i've got 640MB ram total, might aswell get some use from it), not exactly sure what i will use it for, but at this stage its got my temp internet files.

JayMan

[Dudster]

http://www.sysopt.com/forum/biggrin.gif It arrived this morning (yesterday was a national holiday so I wasn't expecting it till tomorrow).

I've decided against setting up a RAM drive (for now at least). Every time a game skipped, I'd be thinking "would that've just happened if I didn't have a RAM drive?". If I had 640MB, I'd probably setup a 128MB RAM drive http://www.sysopt.com/forum/smile.gif

No problems so far and I haven't noticed anything running slower (including Windows) so I don't know what to suggest jusafan. I'm guessing your problems are down to your older motherboard or something.

I haven't tried much yet (Conservativeswapfile etc.) but I did quickly try Quake3 which seems a bit smoother (it was already pretty smooth though). I tried 3DMark2000 and 2001 just incase and my scores were identical as the scores I got with 256MB (which is a good thing I think).

I'm gonna try a load of stuff and when I come to some final conclusions, I'll post them http://www.sysopt.com/forum/smile.gif

[Dudster]

http://www.aumha.org/a/memmgmtz.htm

Just found some info on what the ConservativeSwapfileUsage options does. I will definately give this tweak a go http://www.sysopt.com/forum/smile.gif

[Madtripper]

I have recently had trouble installing a 3rd stick of 256 222 from crucial. I can run 512 but when I use the last slot, my graphics card goes off the handle. I have a 900 T-bird oced to 1100 with a Radeon 64ddr all held together by an Abit Kt-7. Any ideas??

[Bsdboy]

See here (http://support.microsoft.com/support/kb/articles/Q253/9/12.ASP?LN=EN-US&SD=gn&FR=0)

Bsdboy

[jusafan]

Still haven't tried pulling out one of the 256 sticks yet. Was hoping to find an answer before I did that. Did upgrade from Cacheman 3.8 to 5.0. Still no help. Max memory for the VA503+ is 512MB. Thought I was doing the right thing!

[Dudster]

jusafan... have you tried disabling Cacheman and letting Windows handle things? I think it's worth a try http://www.sysopt.com/forum/smile.gif

[jusafan]

Nothing to lose!

[jusafan]

System:
FIC VA-503+ w/ AMD K6-2 400Mhz
Maxtor 13GB ATA33 7200RPM (PRI-C,E,F)
Fixed 300MB swap file on F
Maxtor 7GB ATA33 5400RPM (SEC-D,G,H)
Dual Boot Win98SE on C; Win 2K on H
3DFX Voodoo 3 2K 16MB AGP @2X
SB Live! Platinum
Was 128MB PC100 Simple Tech CAS-2 MEM
System ran great!
Installed 512MB (2@256MB) Crucial
Noticeable slowdown on initial app openings, more disk activity.
Opening of Control Panel after reboot: Before = 3 sec.
After = 12 sec.
Pulled one 256 stick out, removed Cacheman, ConservSwap off; minor improvement (10 sec)
Kinda points to the memory, doesn't it?

[cadetstimpy]

Yes limit the swap file unless your disks are fast.

Best thing since HDD are cheap nowadays....get a RAID ATA100 setup going with two drives in RAID O format. This will compliment the larger amount of RAM well. The extra RAM will not always be waiting for disk access (which also causes the Virtual Memory problems - more RAM = larger swap file)

Of course this is a great gaming configuration. If you plan to store critical data then maybe just a single faster HDD to compliment the RAM would be safer.

[jusafan]

Maybe I'll just give the memory to my son and take my old stick of 128MB back! I don't know what I was expecting by maxing out the memory . . . maybe a faster computer?

[MoxManiac]

Are you sure about win98se becoming slower after going up to 512?

I ask, because i went to 512 from 256, and my 3dmark2001 score was not affected (went up 20 points actually :p), and my memory bandwith went up slightly as well according to sisoft sandra benchmarks. I haven't noticed anything else, though I should probably run more tests.

I only paid $37 for my new 256 stick, so it's not like it broke the bank. Gotta love the current RAM prices http://www.sysopt.com/forum/smile.gif http://www.sysopt.com/forum/smile.gif http://www.sysopt.com/forum/smile.gif

[Dudster]

jusafan:
Pulled one 256 stick out, removed Cacheman, ConservSwap off; minor improvement (10 sec)
Did you do all that at the same time or did you test your system after each change?

If you do decide to give up on having 512MB RAM, I'd suggest keeping one of the 256MB sticks in instead of going back to just 128MB http://www.sysopt.com/forum/smile.gif And maybe keep the other handy for if you replace Win98SE with WinXP.

I've just turned ConserativeSwapfileUsage off. It didn't make anything smoother; infact, it seemed to make my games a tiny bit jerkier! I think the next thing I'll try is the Super Network Server option (not the normal Network Server option).

[radio1_mike]

MadTripper:

Try switching around slots for your memory sticks. I have a KT7 too, and whenever I put into the 3dr slot it drops down from 128MB to 64MB. The other 2 slots-- it doesn't.

Anyways, Good Luck!

[The Clank]

moebius, Brian48, JayMan, or anyone else:
I have a machine running Win98SE w/ 512MB RAM. I set up a 256MB RAM Drive- pretty easy- which currently contains my Temp file.
I want to set it up to receive my Temporary Internet files and maybe even Cookies.
How do I do this?

Also, an aside, I am fairly new to the "forums" and want to know what "LOL" means. I've seen it used in several posts and I'm curious.
and How do you set your machine to "Network Server" (where in Windows is this done?)

[mtpros]

Oops double post!

[This message has been edited by mtpros (edited 08-30-2001).]

[mtpros]

LOL=Laughing Out Loud
ROFLMAO=Rolling on the floor laughing my *ss off
BRB=be right back
Just computer geek lingo http://www.sysopt.com/forum/smile.gif

You can set your system to Network server by right clicking My Computer select properties.
In that window choose the performance tab and click the file system button under settings "typical role for this computer" use the drop down menu to change it to Network Server.

[jusafan]

Tried to download Sandra last night, but their server must have been down. When (and if) I hit the "sweet spot", I'll post the results.

[jusafan]

Found a link that may have hit the nail on the head.
http://www.pcguide.com/ref/mbsys/cache/charCacheability-c.html

"If you put more memory in a system than can be cached, the result is a performance decrease".

[jaboo]

I posted similar question a few months back. I have a 1Ghz T-bird running Win 98 SE with 512 MB PC133 CAS2 Micron RAM. And, I must say for Net browsing and MS Word, it dose nothing for speed. However, I do some pretty intensive Excel flies (ex. Pivot tables), Poweerpoint with tons of graphics, and I use MS Picture It to do alot of photo editing. And, that is where I see the greatest increases in speed. And, now I can work on a 10 MB Excel spreadsheet, surf the net, and burn a CD without any slowdowns. Also, next year when MS comes out with Win XP SE (after they get the bugs out....I only like beta testing when I get paid http://www.sysopt.com/forum/smile.gif, I will have the horsepower and RAM to upgrade.

One thing, I changed my system.ini files because Win 98 SE sometimes has problems dealing with 512 MB or greater. Do a performance check on www.pcpitstop.com. (http://www.pcpitstop.com.) Their recommendation how to change system.ini blows away what Micro$oft suggests. And, RAM is dirt freakin cheap. By next year when DDR memory is standard, price of SDRAM 133 will expensive. (try finding cheap EDO RAM for an old board)

[jaboo]

I posted similar question a few months back. I have a 1Ghz T-bird running Win 98 SE with 512 MB PC133 CAS2 Micron RAM. And, I must say for Net browsing and MS Word, it dose nothing for speed. However, I do some pretty intensive Excel flies (ex. Pivot tables), Poweerpoint with tons of graphics, and I use MS Picture It to do alot of photo editing. And, that is where I see the greatest increases in speed. And, now I can work on a 10 MB Excel spreadsheet, surf the net, and burn a CD without any slowdowns. Also, next year when MS comes out with Win XP SE (after they get the bugs out....I only like beta testing when I get paid http://www.sysopt.com/forum/smile.gif, I will have the horsepower and RAM to upgrade.

One thing, I changed my system.ini files because Win 98 SE sometimes has problems dealing with 512 MB or greater. Do a performance check on www.pcpitstop.com. (http://www.pcpitstop.com.) Their recommendation how to change system.ini blows away what Micro$oft suggests. And, RAM is dirt freakin cheap. By next year when DDR memory is standard, price of SDRAM 133 will expensive. (try finding cheap EDO RAM for an old board)

[crunchyriff]

I have 768mb ram in my winME sys, and it works just fine....

[Dudster]

jusafan:
Opening of Control Panel after reboot: Before = 3 sec.
After = 12 sec.
Pulled one 256 stick out, removed Cacheman, ConservSwap off; minor improvement (10 sec)
I missed that on the first read. D'ya mean that it's still slower with only 1 stick of 256MB in? Maybe it has problems with DIMMs bigger than 128MB? Though that would be quite wierd with the ability to use 512MB. Maybe it can only cache upto 128MB? Maybe you should go back to 128MB http://www.sysopt.com/forum/smile.gif
Found a link that may have hit the nail on the head. http://www.pcguide.com/ref/mbsys/cache/charCacheability-c.html
I've just checked out that link and it does sound like your mobo can't cache that much memory (though I don't know of any way you could be sure. Which really sucks). If this is the case then you must've been unlucky; several other people have posted that they use 512MB successfully on Super Socket 7 systems. I've just had a look at the manual for my old Chaintech SS7 mobo and the max amount of memory it can handle is 384MB. I don't know how much it can cache but it was fine with 128MB (which was also the largest size of DIMM it would take).

Edit: jusafan... You could try emailing Crucial Customer Services and see what they've got to say to your problem. The address is crucial.service@micron.com (assuming you're in the US).

[This message has been edited by Dudster (edited 08-31-2001).]

[Dudster]

The Clank... http://www.sysopt.com/forum/smile.gif Hi, here ya go http://www.speedcorp.net/guides/ramdrive/ - tells you how to put your Temp Internet, Cookies and History onto your RAM drive.

[The Clank]

Thanks Dudster,
I've set up IE to cache to my RAM drive.
Now my temp. internet files, cookies, and history goes to my RAM Drive.
It's fun to tweak - it seems to have sped up my internet experience a little (very subjective).
No more having to empty out my cache and cookies to keep Big Brother from tracking me.
I reboot and have a clean slate!

[Dudster]

After testing various settings I've decided on these:

*ConservativeSwapfileUsage=0 (the default setting for Win98SE).
*Typical Role of this Computer=Super Cache (posted on page 1 by Raydeo Ray).
*Swapfile=min 512MB and no maximum.
*Quake3 and Team Arena=HunkMegs 255, Sound and ZoneMegs 64.
*No RAM drive.

Fitting 512MB has definately improved my games a bit (hardly any pauses now, really just the ones when first playing after loading. I'd say about half the amount I got with 256MB).

Thanks for all the posts everyone http://www.sysopt.com/forum/smile.gif Job's a goodun

[This message has been edited by Dudster (edited 09-02-2001).]