I just realized this old thing is really an old piece of junk.

[custer]

And I trusted the guy who bought the mobo and cpu for the upgrade from a 486.

This is an old Epox EP-58MVP3C-M with a k6/2-500 cpu.

Come to find out, this AMD piece of junk doesn't have L2 cache, and relies on the mobo's L2. I ran an app on an intel based system [WS440BX with a P3 450 cpu] and the app ran twice as fast as it does on the AMD.

I'll never have another epox/amd combo piece of junk ever.

[Billforce]

How much L-2 is on the MB....I have an old K6-2/500 in my shop with 2 MB cache on a DFI PV MB, 16 MB Voodoo3 Video and it rums EXTREMELY fast for a 500. I run some pretty intense games like Myst Exile111 and it's fast and smooth. Check all of your bios settings. My old 500 AMD benchmarks equal to a 550 P111.

[custer]

512 KB cache. Jumper settings on the board are set for 100Mhz sdram, synchronized with the cpu.

I did a poor man's upgrade from a 350 to a 500 and didn't notice any improvement at all. What bios settings do you suggest looking at?

Ty, I'm about to use this as a square frizbee.

According to aida32, memory read is 164 MB/s
Memory write is 81MB/s.

I did some tweaking in the bios for the memory but it wasn't worth it. 173/83 now.

[Billforce]

I see that the problem is the limited cache onboard (512) is minimal. You will never see the potential of the K6-2 with the low cache. The P 111 had onchip cache, level 1 of 256 or 512, even the Celeron had 128 cache. The limiting factor is the MB for sure.

[stix_kua]

My friend, if you are using old technology like that, I do not see why you are expecting any thing to brag about. Of course then poor man's upgrade has to be done sometime but it doesn't always meant hat you should be expecting god-like performance becuase obvoiusly, it is a "poor man's upgrade" There are other things you could have done to actually get performance....If you spent $200 on newegg.com, you would have been much happier.

[clippmanta]

IMO, you ought not judge the Epox/AMD combo based on very old equipment.......most experienced overclockers and system tweakers on this and other forums prefer that very combo.:t

[ukulele]

I used an "old" Epox/k62 450 setup for over a year a few years back. It was an excellent choice at the time and bargain parts even then. Unfortunately the programs modern systems need to run are evermore demanding both in size and necessary resources. I wish I had it now for a backup but I sold it before it was almost give away prices. As BPB once told me, sometimes you just have to say goodbye to old friends.;)

BTW...Upgrading an old 486 to a top line K62 is an accomplishment in itself and about as fast as you can go with an AT case. Your friend did you right in my book.

[custer]

I wasn't expecting anything miraculous out of this thing. I was comparing technology that came out about the same time. That gateway came out in 1999, about the same time as this old epox. The gateway sports an intel sw440bx board and it has it all over the epox.

The trouble with my friend is that he doesn't do any reading. Anyone with a little common sense can build a computer... we know most of these components won't even install in the wrong slot, or even backwards in the right slot. It's how well they perform and that he didn't know anything about. I seriously doubt the guy knew what cache was. The tech where he bought the board did all the jumper settings for him. He just bought cheap.

Thanks for all the replies. Yes, time to say goodbye to an old friend. It shouldn't have gone past win98se. I have win2k on this and the usb doesn't work anyway.

Now I have to figure out what I can replace this with that will give me a long enuf run that one day I won't look back and see that it was a piece of junk compared to what I could have gotten.

This epox tops out at the 500 [socket 7] I have in it now. I'm replacing the 450 in the intel with an 850 and if it were my board I'd try the 1G slot 1 at 100Mhz that intel made. But the 850 came yesterday.

Anyway, thanks again. :)

[Gokudan]

Not my intention to flame..... but how can you compare a "full" P-III 450 system with a K6-2 500Mhz system with old 486 parts in it?

But...oh well...anyway.... your friend bought what he could and he did it right.....




Good luck with the new enhancement on you other pc :t

[Ammok]

It's like comparing a ten year old Ford with a new Toyota, and i would certainly have a PIII over an AMD K2 any day, but your missing the point, if you wanted a PIII performance why did you not give your upgrade buddy double or treble the money?

Good luck in upgrading your K2, and I hope you like your new Cyrix 1000mhz processor, which will be as about effective as your K2, but it will have big numbers after it.:t

[leprechaun_40]

I'm currently running an "old" Epox board with an AMD K-6 266 on it. It may be old and not have many of the features that a newer, faster, better machine would have, but it gets the job done. In it's day, it was an amazing machine. It would outperform an Intel Pentium 300 quite handily.

I also have a K6-2 running in another machine here, it too was a great machine at one time. But alas, it's time is past.

You'd be suprised however to see howmany 386 and 486 based machines are out there, running as servers and routers, moving your data across the internet. Not to mention being used on a daily basis by many companies.

Don't judge an old machine against todays standards. It's not a fair and even judgment. They have come so far in the past few years that it is quite astounding to those of us who have been around this industry for 20 years or more. Hey, remember the 8086?? I had one, it was an amazing machine, when it was new. Now it's a museum piece if it's still around.

Your friend did what he could with what he had. If he wants more, he's going to have to spend more, it's a simple equation. As with cars, speed and performance is a matter of money. How fast can you afford to go?:t

[Ammok]

I've got intel 486's which still run, shame is I'm now breaking them down for scrap as they are worth more (a few pounds) that way, than as working models. Makes me smile that they all cost £1000 plus in their heyday, I've got forty odd of them, and they are worth just about squat diddly.:)

[Ammok]

PS I can remember wishing so hard I could afford one!!!!

[Magua]

Ive got a 486 set up, gonna try to keep it that way too. Fun having something to run old software, back when floppy disks were floppy :D

[leprechaun_40]

I still have a VESA bus 486 Mobo, a VESA video card to go with it, Trident I believe, and a case even, all I need to make it go would be a floppy and HDD, CD and monitor,,LOL. Yes, I do have an Intel 486 dx4 66 to go with the mobo.

A couple years ago, I got 4 or 5 of these machines from a doctors office that was scrapping them out. Some worked, some didn't. I took them apart and made 2 working machines outa the parts. Gave them away ( yes, free ) to some people who just wanted a computer to get started with. Hell, for that price, they were ecstatic:D

[Ammok]

here, lep, I got 171mb drive sand 545.5 drives in abundance, currently disecting them to get the aluminium and steel out of them.

[custer]

No, no, no. That's not what happened. I trusted this guy to build me a nice system. I didn't put a money cap on it. He knew that within reason, I'd go for the price he wanted. $1200 or so should have gotten better than this thing. Instead it was some hundred or so.... don't remember. That's what I mean by 'trust'. I didn't know how to build myself back then.

What 486 parts in this? The AT case? After his mobo it was new cdrom, new atx power supply, new floppy drives, new nic, new vid card, 2 new hd's, new case fan, new sound card, new modem, new cable modem, new speakers, new monitor, new scuzzy card, new external burner, 400M+ ram. The only junk in it is his mobo.

Yes, ya can't compare a k6/2 with a P3. That's the point. They were both out at about the same time. 99ish. He knew I wanted quality, he should have gone for the intel. He admitted later he never reads, but at that time I didn't know I was getting mush.

[Ammok]

then it's not the amd chip that's at fault, it's the bloke who ripped you off. Take it out of his body or demand your money back. For 1200 dollars you should have had a P4 2.4 or an athlon 2500 type system, state of the art.

If your a girl and he's a bloke I would not invite him round to dinner either, may lose more than your money.

[custer]

His wife died, he's living in another state now. My baseball bat isn't quite that long. :) It was a few hundred for the mobo/amd he got. He wasn't trying to screw anyone.... he just didn't much know what he was doing.

After that I bought the books, did the studying, paid the dues. I taught myself to build. I bought and installed the rest of the parts.

What? custer isn't a masculine nick? [*-deleted word-*]! Gotta think of anudder. :cool:

(*** Polite language only please *** - WSUA (http://www.internet.com/corporate/legal.html) 3. a.)

[custer]

If it weren't for AMD we'd all still be giving up our firstborn for intels. The whole problem is the cache on this mobo. Even with L1 on the AMD, decent L2 on the mobo would have made for MUCH difference.

[Billforce]

Originally posted by leprechaun_40
I still have a VESA bus 486 Mobo, a VESA video card to go with it, Trident I believe, and a case even, all I need to make it go would be a floppy and HDD, CD and monitor,,LOL. Yes, I do have an Intel 486 dx4 66 to go with the mobo.

A couple years ago, I got 4 or 5 of these machines from a doctors office that was scrapping them out. Some worked, some didn't. I took them apart and made 2 working machines outa the parts. Gave them away ( yes, free ) to some people who just wanted a computer to get started with. Hell, for that price, they were ecstatic:D

Good on ya mate! Whenever I have a customer who wants to trade in an old 486 I give them a small (very small) trade and clean them up and donate them to some charity foundation here in Colombia. If I didn't, they wouldn't have any as they can't afford to buy. Monitors are my only hassle as even old ones are expensive to give away.

[Ammok]

I got a problem giving them away too, costs £110 a metric ton to dispose of, but who wants a 13" viewable monitor nowadays? Got some ex-offenders and stroke victims who take an odd 166mhz system from me but even that is difficult.

custer, life is an experience, I got a K2-6-500 still running and it beats the [*-deleted word-*] out of my still running Celeron 700, but my PIII 700 has never let me down and still plays games, but my new Barton 2500 is pure joy and as I am holiday next week I'm giving the Celery away and resurrecting my old Tbird1.4, job's a good un. Put the K2 down to life's little ups and downs and save up for a better machine, intel or amd whatever taakes your fancy.:t

(*** Polite language only please *** - WSUA (http://www.internet.com/corporate/legal.html) 3. a.)

[leprechaun_40]

Billforce, thanks.:t

I managed to get a couple of 14" monitors with these systems. For free, along with a system, people who can't afford a system will take what they can get. They figured it was nice just to have a working computer, with a small monitor. Much better than nothing at all:t

I also enjoyed putting them together. The challenge and experience of making something like that run. I figure I didn't lose anything but gained in knowledge.

[Ammok]

I can't give em away, currently they are cracked and disassembled for the copper bearing components and the glass and housing are shipped to Sheffield for crushing, washing and reprocessing. The plastic goes to landfill after being shredded and the glass is added to concrete mixes, and I pay for the privelidge.:) however, 15" and up go like hot cakes.:D

[custer]

Originally posted by Ammok
custer, life is an experience, I got a K2-6-500 still running and it beats the [*-deleted word-*] out of my still running Celeron 700, but my PIII 700 has never let me down and still plays games, but my new Barton 2500 is pure joy and as I am holiday next week I'm giving the Celery away and resurrecting my old Tbird1.4, job's a good un. Put the K2 down to life's little ups and downs and save up for a better machine, intel or amd whatever taakes your fancy.:t

Thanks Ammok, you, too, Billforce. :)

I'm not at all angry with my friend.... he's still my friend and I wish him all the best, although we've lost touch. I see that my posts were taken that I was angry with him. No, he's treated me fairly.... he just didn't know. I meant that I trusted him to know, not that I trusted him not to cheat me out of some money and he did.

In it's day, this old epox board was a bargain. It has dual input, at or atx power, 3 isa slots, 4 pci slots. It was prolly a good deal to get it off the shelf what with p3's already out.

What could I get in the way of a good intel processor/intel or asus board combo that I would still be relatively happy with 2 years from now? 2G+ processor? I know Epox prolly makes some nice boards now but I just don't want to go down that road again. It's like not being a Cub fan anymore. LOL

[Ammok]

Abit or MSi or ASUS mobo's come highly recommended. IF you want easy to use stability go for a P4 at 2.4ghz, higher if you got dough.

For fun, and I mean lots of fun, get an Nforce2 amd mobo(i don't recommend VIA chipsets plus the N2 Northbridge and Southbridge rock) and a Barton 2500 and overclock the life out of it. Whoopeeeeeeee!!!!! (guess what I got!!!):D :D

[leprechaun_40]

Ammok, yes, old non-working monitors are becoming a disposal problem. What with the lead, arsenic, tin and other toxic materials in them. I read somewhere that some companies are considering an upfront charge on a new monitor for it's eventual return (as a dead one ) for disposal costs. They say ( I don't really trust them ) that they'll recycle and properly dispose of the old one so it doesn't end up in a landfill and contaminate the environment.

As for working older monitors, you are right 15" and up will go fast, the smaller ones, who wants em??:eek: I still have a perfectly good 14" one here, just for emergencys or testing purposes. Most of the time, it's just sitting here collecting dust:)

[Ammok]

I know, good for testing only. Shame really.

[custer]

Thank you, Ammok.

No, I won't have another via chipset. That's what's wrong with this old Epox board. At least as far as the L2 cache and the usb not working.

Abit or MSi or ASUS. And a P4 at 2.4?

No, I don't have much money. Thanks for the money saving tip. :) I knew ASUS had a well respected board. Abit and MSi also? Good.

[Ammok]

Really, Abit, asus, epox and msi are all good makes of boards, and you can pick up real bargains at newegg on most of the. As you are a bit disenchanted with amd, a P4 2.4 is a good choice, although intel is always more the more expensive option. Does have memory bandwith advantages but again at a cost. You would not be disapointed with p4-2.4 I'd bet.:)