Microsoft to Change IE Browser

[Mm9004]

Looks to me like Microsoft could be getting upset about all the other challenges to their browser.

Now, I'm not saying that Microsoft does a poor job with their software, far from it (otherwise they wouldn't be number one). What I am saying is that thanks to all kinds of competition, Microsoft now has a greater abition to progress, and make their software better. Someone else thought they could do it better. And Microsoft doesn't like being second best, they simply won't stand for it.

Makes the consumer happy. :D

[neverwhere]

yeah, but now that we have the holes in the current IE patched, how many are going to spring up in the new one?

[Strawbs]

Any software that M$ users connect to the internet with will always have flaws and those flaws will always be exploited ...it's a corporate thing.

IE has the biggest userbase in the world and so is the tastiest target for hackers and such (you can affect more ppl with one program). I haven't use IE for over a year (although I still have it installed as back-up and keep it updated), so I don't have as many security headaches.

Opera (http://www.opera.com/download/) all the way!

[Bluehail]

This is a welcomed change. Now if Microsoft allows you to block/allow select ActiveX controls that would be awesome ex allow only acrobat reader, shockwave.

[sanity]

How gracious of them to update their product, even after having "won the browser wars."

Originally posted by Mm9004
Now, I'm not saying that Microsoft does a poor job with their software, far from it (otherwise they wouldn't be number one).

Sigh. Microsoft does a poor job with much of their software. A lot of this has to do with the politics between their marketing department and their developers/designers, but I won't get into that.
1.) They don't have a pop-up blocker option in IE. This is so simple to implement, and it's been in other browsers for over a year.
2.) Millions of newbies have pop up software that was installed on their computer by Active X. Hello? A protocol that installs things on your computer just because you requested a URL? Idiotic.
3.) IE runs slower than Mozilla or Firebird even though it is "integrated" into the OS. This is absurd.
4.) If you knew anything about MS's software dev division you would not say the quote above. MS's apps division is completely separate from its OS division and is more about marketing than technical superiority.
5.) Regarding only WWW browsers, just try Mozilla Firebird (version .6x, and already it is faster loading/rendering than IE). It is stable except for a few small bugs, and doesn't have many features yet but already I think you will find it to be preferable to IE. And yes, it has a popup blocker and you can block images from any domain you like.

Microsoft has lagged terribly in browser innovation for year(s), but for some reason you are happy when they throw a crumb after year(s) of stagnation, instead of being enraged that they have sat on their asses for so long. But they know they can sit on their asses because most of their users will blindly fire up IE time after time, no matter how much hell Active X raises, no matter, how slow IE renders pages, and no matter how little features IE has, and despite the fact that IE really is one of the least "user-friendly" browsers.

[causticVapor]

All I can say is that IE follows the rules set by the W3C more strictly than any other browser, and this helps the developer tremendously.

Most people just look on the surface and don't see that. Mozilla may be more user-friendly, but it doesn't predictably render pages.

Pop-up blocker? Use ad-aware or the google toolbar. Much more effective than any built-in thing anyway. :p

[sanity]

Originally posted by causticVapor
All I can say is that IE follows the rules set by the W3C more strictly than any other browser, and this helps the developer tremendously.

You are trying to [*-deleted word-*] me off. Your statement is completely backwards. IE makes up its own tags. The scrollbar enhancements are not W3C. And ummm actually for a few months after the CSS standards were published and accepted by all browsers, IE was for a long time the only browser that did not correctly implement the "positioning" styles. And although I personaly think Opera is a bloated piece of [*-deleted word-*] these days, it is still _the_ most standards-compliant browser.

I am not a knee-jerk "anti-Microsoft bigot," and I have no problem giving a nod to their relative acheivments. Defending the "merits" of Internet Explorer is laughable. Haha, I'm laughing at you. The idea that anyone actually believes that IE is the most standards-compliant browser is ... just... well, have you ever met anyone who thinks the CDROM is a coffee-cup holder? It's kind of like that. It's _that_ funny. I bet you swallow all the marketing about their server benchmarks... like how it's the fastest server sw (yes, for static html. Name a large site that serves static html...).

If IE renders "predictably" to you, that just means you're more used to it. After you do nearly ALL of your site testing on IE, suddenly you double-check with another browser, and then you conclude, "omg it works on IE, why doesn't it work on {browser}?" Jesus.

Mozilla renders beautifully. I hope you have used a late version of Mozilla and are not equating Netscape with Mozilla (especially Communicator, as that was a terrible browser).


Most people just look on the surface and don't see that.
So, you are basically implying that you look "under the surface," right? Hoo boy....


Pop-up blocker? Use ad-aware or the google toolbar. Much more effective than any built-in thing anyway. :p
Oh, my bad. So, whatever deficiency IE has, we can just make up for it in whatever way possible. My bad, I thought we were discussing the pros and cons of a browser, but it seems you just want to find a way to annoint IE no matter what problems it has. "Gee, it doesn't do this and this, but that doesn't mean its bad, I'll just make up for it by adding another third party program which I'm not even sure I can trust."
:t

(*** Polite language only please *** - WSUA (http://www.internet.com/corporate/legal.html) 3. a.)

[ichorid]

geez, slow down man

ie may no be the best, but that doesnt make it bad!

... its just that the rest are better.

most of the world uses ie and is very happy with it, as am I



maybe others are better, and maybe one day i might try another browser, but for now im sticking witth ie because its never given me any problems.

stop ranting about and adequate piece of software!:rolleyes:


calm down:x

[sanity]

ichorid, um, why are you on an optimization site?

Just admit you're wrong.

[Strawbs]

Jeebus! and I thought I was the epitomy of anti microsoft resentment. :eek:

Go here (http://****microsoft.com/content/ms-hidden-files.shtml) and rant to your hearts content, you'll be among kindred spirits. :r

you may have to enter the first four letters of the address manually ...it's the swear word beginning with "F" and the sysopt swear filter sometimes edits it out.

[sanity]

I am not anti-microsoft. Read the friggin' post. I provide information. It really is maddening that you fire off such a one-liner after I go to all the trouble to provide backup for my claims, and I make it clear that I am not blindly anti-MS. You are a tool.

[Strawbs]

Okay so you don't like I.E and possibly with good reason, but that doesn't give you the right to jump on anybody that doesn't agree with what you say. Just 'cause you don't like I.E does not mean everybody else has to dislike it too. It's called freedom of choice you [*-deleted word-*]. Why am I not surprised your looking for a girfriend? because you have a dictatorial attitude, is why!

You wanted more than one line, you got it! :mad:

(*** Polite language only please *** - WSUA (http://www.internet.com/corporate/legal.html) 3. a.)

[Mm9004]

5.) Regarding only WWW browsers, just try Mozilla Firebird (version .6x, and already it is faster loading/rendering than IE). It is stable except for a few small bugs, and doesn't have many features yet but already I think you will find it to be preferable to IE. And yes, it has a popup blocker and you can block images from any domain you like.

I'm not an idiot sanity. I used Mozilla Firebird to post the first message.:eek: I just happen to be one of those reasonable people who don't blindly stab at Microsoft because I want everything to be perfect.

Do you know why there are so many holes in microsoft? because no idiot hacker is going to exploit defects in Mozilla, iRider, Netscapes etc., and Opora. IE is the most commonly used browser and therefore the one that most hackers attack. The reason people like you hate it is because it's just the target ALL hackers aim at. Thats why there are so many problems. Chances are Mozilla Firebird (the one I'm using now) has ten times as many holes as IE because they have never had the displeasure of being tested by the net.

The reason IE runs so slow is because it's doing its best to protect you. In the end, who has a better chance of survival?

The greatest Browser on earth going against the whole world wide web... or a meager browser that manages to get by because the greatest browser ever is drawing all the fire?

Mozilla doesn't render even sysopt.com properly.:( If you were paying attention, you would have seen that before you made that post.

[sanity]

oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo oo.

It's tempting. But I won't. I'm done.
I'm done with this site. Enjoy your video games and pop tarts.

I _refuse_ to spit out more facts when I just wasted my time doing so and end up with 3 people calling me a blind bigot. Meanwhile you counter my factual statements with your faithful statements. Anything negative about MS is deemed bigotry and blind hatred. You people are _all_ tools. You _don't_get_it_.

I just loaded this site with Firebird next to IE 5 and firebird actually renders it _better_. DID I MENTION IT'S IN BETA?
You are a [*-deleted word-*] idiot*. Backlash all you want, I'm DONE.

I'm done!

(*** Polite language only please *** - WSUA (http://www.internet.com/corporate/legal.html) 3. a.)

[Strawbs]

Goodbye!

[missiveusa]

Pity the members of whatever forum sanity uses to deposit his pearls of Truth and Wisdom :rolleyes:

[Mm9004]

Does he think I'm an idiot? I'm using it right now in the latest version and it's screwed up.

Somehow, bigotry only works one way for him.

"There is no one more idiotic than the poor soul who does not agree with you."

[Nomad_2002]

Boy, that guy needs to calm down. Anyway back to the idea of the topic, any (calm) thoughts would be appreciated.

[Mm9004]

OK, how's this?

What should Microsoft employ in their new browser? A 'pause loading page' button? I've always wanted one of those because I have a modem.

The reason is I when I try to load mutiple pages in different windows it takes a painstakingly long time. I would rather be able to tap into pages all at once while being able to controll which page loads first. That way, I could read one page while the other is loading without loseing all the progress from the original load.

One thing they do need for sure: tabs.

[Strawbs]

I don't know where I would be without Opera's tabs, I hate the way I.E. fills the taskbar with different windows.

It also needs pop-up and ad blocking as a standard feature, I don't want to have to install third party stuff and have that running in my systray or Googlebar (spyware).

[omendata]

Crikey I always miss the interesting posts.

I have to admit I use all manner of browsers but always come back to ie because it supports some of my most essential add-ons

Google toolbar , Roboform , ie-addons , xenobar etc

I used to be a Netscape only guy but it became really slow and turgid after navigator...

Sad to say it but IE does follow w3c standards and most sites are deisgned and tested round it and netscape.

We have many browsers to choose from enigma , phoenix , opera , neoplanet - i guess its just what works best for you.

[pandaz3]

I was using Netscape like most people till MS Come out with IE..... the original wasn't as good as Netscape. IE II was a big fix as was III but I switched with II, I just thoust MS was responding faster. I've tried about 4 versions of Opera ... No Thanks. I'd love something better than IE, just haven't found it. I do agree with Mr. Ranter though... MS does not follow rules or standards, they think they set them.

[Hierodule]

I'm using Firebird too... and I don't see Firebird rendering SysOpt as hideously as Mm9004 mentioned here... I don't know about what goes on beneath the hood, true, but looking at SysOpt with both Firebird and IE, I can see no significant rendering differences (only that the spacing between the top banner and the page's body is not the same)... they both look just as good to me... or just as bad (depending on whether you are of the "glass half-full" or "glass half-empty" type). :)

Apart from a few bugs (which one would expect from a beta), I wouldn't be surprised if Firebird becomes my browser of choice. Heck, I can even stop Flash animations from loading (and select ONLY those I want to see with a click of the mouse), which is a blessing since I am on dial-up...

No MS-bahsing-mentality here... I've used IE on a daily basis for years until last week. If MS can come up with something better, I'll switch back... maybe :)

[FrnchDp]

Dag nabit.. I missed the whole "sanity" episode.. speaking of which, he seems to have serious issues.. Glad he took em somewhere else..

Back to topic.. I've used IE forever.. that said, I've tried Moz and opera and I have to say I enjoy the tab feature the most. I hope M$ decides to implement that in their next version.

I have no trouble with Moz and Opera most of the time.. but then I run into a site that just wont render properly or wont open all the way.. And so i turn back to IE and as my favs are mostly stored there, I end up surfing with IE..

i too am looking for something better, but I seem to have to give up certain features if I switch browsers. Fancy mentioned MyIE, and I still have to try that out..

On the subject of M$'s compliance with the rules and regulation, let's not fool ourselves, they're in court all the time with some judge telling them to abide by the rules, not make them as they go along.. But, what are you gonna do.. as long as somebody keeps an eye on them....


:t

[Mm9004]

When you're as powerful as MS, you do set alot of rules. Not all.

As for the Moz deal: It probably renders better on other PCs. The rason I complain is as I type this, it resides a space that would fill the screen on 800x600 pixels. But on 1024x768 It centers it in the middel of the screen and doesn't re-size it like MSIE.

Moz Re-sizes alot of things but not all. And since nearly all web pages today are made with MSIE in mind, it's not as easy to write a browser that will render pages perfectly because you find yourself trying really hard to conform to MSIEs way of doing things.

I guess I ought to download Firebird 0.7. That could take care of the problems. If not, I'll submit a bug report.

But right now, Advertisements are over-laping the Sysopt URLs.

[Strawbs]

I installed Norton Internet Security 2004 today and all of the top banners and ads have gone.

The site looks like it did when I got here 2 years ago ...clean. :)

[Mm9004]

:D

[causticVapor]

Based on my experience, IE has followed what I wanted it to do, while other browsers have screwed up. Sorry.

I have seen this change for the better, but the latest builds of Netscape and Mozilla STILL do not render things the way I want them to without me having to improvise and compensate. I know many other developers who agree.

I do not think IE is the most intuitive browser, it is far from it. However, it still follows the W3C the closest. Anybody who disagrees doesn't have a clue as to what they're talking about - look in the W3C docs for yourselves!

As far as useability, Mozilla outstrips IE and other browsers. But it still suffers from the Netscape "disease."

[Strawbs]

I read somewhere the other day that AOL has stopped developement of Netscape.

:t

[pandaz3]

I did too, I think they want to sell

[Strawbs]

I don't think they bought it to sell it on again, I reckon they will scrap it.

[groupie]

i feel sorry for sanity. it kinda looked like he was giving facts and everyone else was making stuff up. i opened this in both IE and netscape and it was centred in both, so if it was stretched in that dudes IE then i think that wasnt supposed to happen.

"I have seen this change for the better, but the latest builds of Netscape and Mozilla STILL do not render things the way I want them to without me having to improvise and compensate. I know many other developers who agree."
i know none. i write html, look in both browsers, and 9 / 10 if theres a problem its in IE. particularly for JS.
i would love for this to not be the case - tell me how?

and please direct me to these W3C docs that IE complies by. microsoft pretty much have a policy of being proprietary - it is good business. i've honestly never heard anyone say that IE was the most standards compliant browser before. if u can back it up, im really interested.

[Strawbs]

I read a piece just last week that claimed M$ is using a non-standard html protocol in IE to transmit encoded user data back to base, Data that does not show in DOS sessions because it's hidden with non-standard file extensions, that is one of the reasons I don't use IE as my main browser ...It's not because I can find fault with the way it renders web pages, I can't personally. I just don't trust anybody with my personal info. :p

If anyone is interested to read it I can search the link out and have it posted here by tomorrow.

:t

[1Chris]

"IE runs slower than Mozilla or Firebird even though it is "integrated" into the OS. This is absurd."

IE runs niticable faster then Firebird on my machine. I'm using Win 98 with a Althon 1700XP. 512mb DDR RAM.

I used to be Anti-microsoft. I decided to look at everything form a balanced, non biased look. It was kind of hard to admit at first, but in my experence, Microsoft has the best Software. That's ONE reason why there number 1.

[pandaz3]

Microsoft..So easy to bash...So hard to beat!

[Strawbs]

I was PM'd and asked if I could post the link. :cool:

http://www.hevanet.com/peace/microsoft.htm.

You need to scroll down the page 'til you see: "Often there is other hidden operation, no notification, and/or insufficient or no explanation."...The piece about the 4 new protocols is not far below this, roughly a quarter the way down, maybe less, but the page is interesting non-the-less.

There was another page detailing the issues of deleting web history, but I can't find it just now, I've been on the sauce and it's late. I'm going to bed. G, night.

:t

[omendata]

New firebird must need a good processor and more memory to beat IE

Just installed it on an old p300 192mb ram and firebird is sooooo slow

Ill stick with IE6