What kind of job should a newbie MSCE with no experience look for? Wage/Salary exp?

[plucky duck]

I'm thinking....

What kind of job can I possibly aim for if I had a MSCE designation with absolutely no experience and what is a realistic salary/wage expectation?

I'm on my way to becoming a MSCE soon. I live up in Canada and plan on moving to the USA (Las Vegas). Plan on getting a full time job if I can. If not I will do partial studies in a CCNA program and do some part time work. Have relatives there, so shelter is not a problem.

Anybody live in Vegas that can recommend me a good technical college?

I'm also looking into a company that is willing to hire internationally and grant work visas. Looking for a way to get a permanent USA citizenship. Not sure the best way to go about it. Not sure how I'd get taxed if I work too, since I am a Canadian.

Any info. or links to where I can learn more is much appreciated. Thx in advance.

Plucky

[plucky duck]

Anybody?

[daveleau]

In our area (depends on your area), you'd be a shoe-in for a help desk job ($25- 35K), but that's about all you'd get. It is fairly easy to see a paper MCSE if you know what to ask. May differ elsewhere and depends on how your interviewing skills are and how knowledgable the interviewer is but...

Dave

As for visas, I would try to get on with a college or university. They often have loads of international employees and will be able to accomodate you rather easily. And there will be plenty to tell you how to get a green card. There is a lottery that GIVES a green card to random applicants every year. One of the people in our department got it 4-5 years ago. (I work in a university where we have a French Canadian, a Frenchman, and a Spanish guy.)

Good luck!
Dave

[This message has been edited by daveleau (edited 07-02-2001).]

[blubomber]

If you are planning on Vegas, you might try looking into ITT Technical Institute. www.itt-tech.edu (http://www.itt-tech.edu) They have a campus in Henderson, which is right next to Vegas, but i am not sure if they have an MCSE course there. ITT is a good tech school and they have a pretty good reputation in the tech industry. Sorry i cant really help you with your other questions. Hope this has helped you some. Good luck.

[Undeadlord]

I hate those radio commercials that say ..

"Get your MCSE and make 60K right off the bat"

What a joke .. Experiece counts for alot. No disrespect Plucky, alteast you didn't come in here whining about why you couldn't find a 60K a year job with your MCSE.


Undeadlord

[Dokeman]

Certifications are pretty much worthless to a certain extent. I mean, everyone down here has em. The best thing you or anyone can do to get a better, higher paying job is get some experience! experience! experience! Thats pretty much all that matters.. Bottom Line. if you have every certification and apply for a job against someone with no certification but 10 years experience. The guy with the experience will get the job hands down!

[plucky duck]

That's pretty much my same take on it. Yes experience is weighted much over certifications. Certifications may mean you know how to do it, but experience shows that you've already done it.

If I were an employer, I'd make the very same decision.

Are there other entry-level jobs one can try for besides help desk?

Thx.
Plucky

[DemonKnight]

You could marry into citizen ship. (If you marry a US citizen you become one, but then you have imigration serives breathing down your neck and all.)

[smokin1]

Hey plucky..I took a part time job I really don't need with my ISP..admin the network..helpdesk..etc..I have a full time job..but wanted some related experience..the pay is around 25 an hour..CDN..not that much..but the experience is worth a lot.
http://www.sysopt.com/forum/smile.gif

[dragonB]

It's agreed that paper MSCE's or whatever don't get much respect.
I suggest just take a help desk or any kind of job you can find, without worrying about the money. Then after a year or two, with some experience under your belt, look for something more permanent and with better salary.
dragonB

[plucky duck]

Yeah, I don't really care about the money at this point. Its the experience that I'm lacking and wanting to build up. So I guess I should at least take a year or two of help desk before trying to move or do something too drastic.

For those who are in help desk, what do you guys actually do? What kind of people call in? Is it like technical support? Heard about it, but not too indepth so please do refresh my memory http://www.sysopt.com/forum/wink.gif

smokin1, you work for a big name ISP? Cause I don't think our local ISPs can afford that much to hire a person.

I'm thinking just MSCE won't probably get me very far and can't depend on it for the rest of my life as technology is constantly changing. Are MSCE's in a position where they'd have to go along with technology and upgrade themselves once every so often so as not to be outdated?

From what I hear, many companies are still running on NT, some even on Windows 3.11 (no joke) so my W2K MSCE will prolly last me 6-7yrs or is that being too optimistic? Hope Windows XP doesn't get wide acceptance and integration too soon in businesses otherwise I'd be outdated by the time I graduate, hehe.

Plucky

[daveleau]

There are smaller grandfather tests that will keep you up to date (at least there was for 2000) and honestly, MS doesn't change their stuff TOO much. You won't be outdated.

[Steve R Jones]

Help Desk = Tech Support

It actually takes as much "people skills" as is does tech skills. You can know everything there is to know about computers...but if you can't get the person on the other end of the line to listen to you, your stuck.

But, it is a great On The Job Training situation.

[wyvrn]

Helpdesk is more customer service than technical in most cases. Be careful here, if you stay on one too long you run the risk of being pidgeonholed. I speak from experience. I am in a CCNA program and desparately trying to get off of the phones but I think it is going to take an act of God, or me bumping into the right person at the right time. My sup. here at work does not seem to want to help me move off of it.

[smokin1]

Yeah Plucky..it's a big name company. I just work part time for the experience..and people skills are the name of the game. I have been moved in to more interesting stuff such as troubleshooting their network. I had initially offered to work for free, so the supervisor doesn't look at me as a threat..LOL

[Gomer]

Hey Plucky... I don't even know what an MSCE is or whatnot.. Just posting to say it's nice seeing you back around... it's been awhile hasn't it?

[prexaspes]

Well, up here in the Adirondack mountains, certifications aren't abundant. Nor are computer people. I've been working on computers for a few years. Professionally for the last two. I've even got some clients in the NYC area. Help desk? Ya mean I'd have to do one of those jobs before I could be professional professional? Right now it's a side thing that I make a week's wages on a weekend with. It keeps me, my friends, and my family supplied with good hardware. Enough so that I can honestly say I'm still mad that 3dfx went out of business.

Some tips -
If you can graphically represent a problem to a customer, do it!
Let them think they are smart and the stuff your showing them is some big secret that took you years to discover, if they want to pretend they are computer people.
Always back up their data before you touch anything.
Let them apply service packs and updates, unless you've been specifically asked to do it.
Learn NT 3.51. Many businessess still use it because it is extremely stable.
Don't put Q3A on their harddrive, even if for testing purposes.
Back up their data before you even look at their computer.
Work nights and weekends. Nobody needs the computer then.
Did I say backup?

These are just a few things that come to mind due to recent events. Don't ask. Everything worked out alright.

[kva19]

2 guys that I know did their MCSE in the last year in LA, both are Canadians. They did the 2 week bootcamp thing.

Both got jobs in the Silicon Valley within 2 weeks.

Both have 0 experience and I mean 0. One guy got a job paying 75k and has since become very experienced, proved himself even more and has had many bonuses and raises. The second guy got his first job at 85k, quit after 2 months and then went to a 95k job. Both are in small companies

So it is very true you can make good money with very little or next to none. Now the valley has changed a bit, layoffs and all. Still a lot of jobs around, just changing hands out of the big boys. Yeah it is expensive here but your salary usually compensates for it.

[plucky duck]

Thanks for the tips prexaspes, I'll keep that in mind http://www.sysopt.com/forum/smile.gif

That's nice to know Daveleau http://www.sysopt.com/forum/smile.gif

Hey Gomer, how's it going? Yeah its been a while. Not here as frequent as I used to be. But no worries, I'll come back and visit once in a while http://www.sysopt.com/forum/smile.gif This site has a place in my mind no other forums can replace http://www.sysopt.com/forum/smile.gif I've learned quite a lot from this place and still am learning.

kva19, some people have all the luck in the world eh. But sitting on the couch and waiting for luck is no way to go about doing business.

Plucky

[plucky duck]

doh! double bogey :P

Plucky

[This message has been edited by plucky duck (edited 07-04-2001).]

[DeWitt]

Good question...I wonder what a person with on the job training without the formal Cert's can get out there..

[plucky duck]

Probably just a wee bit over minimal wage I'd assume.

Our school has an internship program where they hook us up with employers and we get evaluated over a 2 month/week work period. That's a good start. How much we'd get paid for it I really don't know though. Starting wage for help desk is $8.50Cnd up here, moving up to $9.50Cdn in a months time.

Help desk I think is a good start to help you develop your *thinking/troubleshooting skills*, develop a sense of self confidence, and work up your communication skills.

Plucky

[thxmanu]

I have to throw in my 2 cents now.
kva19 - when did these two guys get their jobs? I just want to say that the pickin's are mighty slim today!!
DeWitt & plucky - I've been doing system administration and desktop support for the last 4 years, with a high school edu., no certs, no formal training making $50-60k.
My advice to you (if you care at all) build as many computers as you can. Take in all of your friend's and family's hammered, glitching and dying machines and work on them, fix them. How I got my first desktop support job, I got my foot in the door ( I basically dazzled them with verbal troubleshooting abilities ) then when I got inside, I figured out how to fix their stuff and proved I had skills. Well, getting long winded, sorry. Good luck man.

[zantark7]

I have found that in some parts of the contry that you need paper to get a job and they could care less what you really know....until i found NCR...and they pay for your papers =D

[John Prophet]

You guys are depressing me...talking about MCSE's having probs finding a job...Im only halfway to my A+ cert!!

[cadkenn]

Plucky, my ex was interested in moving to the States...
She found out all you have to do is get hired by a company south of the border! They file the papers and when you start, you provide proof of employment to customs to get a maximum 2 year work visa. You must leave if you quit however...or if you're there more than a year you can apply for your green card! No need for the lottery if coming from CA. The hiring company must prove to customs that they posted the job throughout the US (easy with the web) and that you are the most qualified for the job!

Later...whew

[techgrl21]

Hi there. I just wanted to mention that I as a fellow Canadian, I would suggest that you get on with a corporation that has a Canadian and American prescense.( I know that is spelled wrong).
I am in the middle of getting my IT & Systems Mgmt. diploma, and got an awesome summer job with a large company in their IT dept. If you are going to be looking at a help desk position, try to get one where your calls are coming in from within the company. I cannot begin to tell you the experience I have gotten from fixing co-workers' workstations (mostly by merely plugging in the power bar).
Another bonus to this job is that they want me after graduation next spring, and with offices all over N.A, I have the chance to transfer to different locations.
Good Luck!!

[edwelly]

I have just passed my Win2000 Prof test and have scheduled to take the Server test this month. I had a little; I mean a little bit of experience when I started my job as a Help Desk Level 1-2 Support. It is a great job because you get to learn how to see what complete idiots think (i.e. you mean I have a right mouse button?). These people are so grateful when you solve their problems. I had no certs but started in the mid $30k's. Hopefully within a year, I should have my MCSE and CCNA and should be able to land a job making $50k - $60k. In Kentucky, where I live, the job market is tight. There are so many consulting firms out their taking up the jobs as projects. This is why you want your certs. The consulting firms only want certified people. That way they can sell the jobs. Employers do want experience but they also want those paper diplomas. Good luck with your testing. I hope you great a great job. Hopes this helps...

[hallam2003]

hey, guys, just been following the thread a little; have a few questions. can someone give me some info on the MCSE? from what i've heard, it's a long hard road, as well as costly. can someone give me an idea on this? I'm still in high school, and i don't plan on starting for my MCSE any time soon. I will have my CCNA by the time i get out though. i suppose i could work on my MCSE a little, but i live in the middle on nowhere, so it might be though to find somewhere to offer it. so, i guess i want some opinions about the MCSE. how hard is it? how long would it take? how much does it cost? and what was that about a bootcamp thing?


Hallam

[edwelly]

hallam2003: you asked about the cost. Well here in Louisville, KY, the 7 classes, all the MOC (Microsoft Official Curriculum), 7 vouchers for each test and the CCNA stuff cost me in access of $10,500.00. That’s a lot of money on the assumption that you will get a high paying job. I don’t regret that amount of money because I have several friends that have went to college and spent $30,000 for 4 years and still couldn’t make the kind of money that I could. But rest assured certification is only 1/3. Experience is 1/3 and attitude is the other 1/3. If you have an interview don’t act you know everything, be honest, tell them you don’t know much but you REALLY want to learn. Employer don’t want a know it all, they want someone who wants to learn. Those guys are the ones who spend the late nights on computer forums, spend time reading about new stuff and get excited about their job. The biggest problem with people getting into the IT field is that WE feel like the IT filed owes us something. It doesn’t. You have to earn your good paying job. Granted there are those few who fall into a great paying job first try, but it’s people like me who have to help them with their problems and their issues. My biggest desire for getting my MCSE is that I want to travel and be a consultant. My future boss is going to want me to have that certification to help substantiate the $150.00 an hour. Hope this helps.

[wyvrn]

Bootcamps prepare you to pass the test. I don't think that they adequately cover the material so that you could administer a Windows NT/2K network though. I would tend to stay away from them because I know some of my employers in the past will refuse to hire someone who got their training there and does not have equivalent experience.

I self studied for my MCP's because I was told I needed them to land a basic job. That has worked so far, and they were not that hard to pass. However, the complexity of my little home network does not match the complexity of networks in todays companies, so my knowledge is still on the neophyte level. What I am trying to say is, don't worry as much about the cert as you do experience. Experience always wins. Don't listen to recruiters who harvest paper MCSE's and send them to companies for interviews, because most of them get spit back out by the hiring company. Start somewhere doing basic admin support, and once you have done that for awhile worry about getting your MCSE (experience will make the tests a LOT easier than studying a cram book, believe me).

Anywho that is my advice. MCSE does not guarantee anything other than getting your foot in the door, but in a lot of places you can do that without much of anything as long as you are willing to put up with temporary low pay/position for the future return of a good position and salary.