Water coolers, how many of you are running one? and some thoughts.

[Spanky]

Water coolers came up in my case fan thread.

One of the biggest worries about a water cooler is leaks, shorts and all that.

I have seen on the web an article about a guy who immersed his whole computer in a bath of cooled mineral oil, it doesn't conduct electricity I guess.

I don't know the thermal properties of that stuff but couldn't you put that in your cooling system and then at least if you had a leak it wouldn't be damaging stuff? Although it would be harder to clean up.


So how many of you guys are running a water cooler? and have you ever had a leak?


Some of the newer stuff thats not HUGE and bulky and ugly is looking really cool, and I could actually see water cooling going mainstream someday. All this cooling inside modern fast machines (and I'm not talking overclocked crazy machines) is starting to get crazy and noisy.

Right now a good system is going to have something like 6 fans in it, thats alot of noise.

I'm counting the PSU fan, 2 case fans, one drawing in and one pushing out, the CPU fan, the VID card fan and the north bridge fan.

Course the water cooling lines running to all that would be fun to route too LOL, I have found the newer water coolers are using smaller tubes though, instead of those crazy lawn garden sized hoses some people have used LOL.


Hmm, someday, water cooling conduits built right into the board, APG-H2O will include a water connection.

Same with the chipset and CPU.

Ah woudln't that be the day, and how hard would it be to add a water cooling jacket to hard drives? since they are already milled out of aluminum.

I can dream can't I?

http://www.sysopt.com/forum/smile.gif

[Szech]

(Raises hand) Me! I took machine shop last quarter for the sole reason of building my own water cooling system. Of course, my motherboard is shot right now http://www.sysopt.com/forum/frown.gif, so it's just kicking it.

I had a leak in my fittings when I first put my system together. I changed the hose fittings, and it was fine.

I'm not worried about leaks springing up while it is running because it's a low pressure system, I used good sealants and I clamped all the tubes to their fittings.

This guy did that (pump non-conductive oil instead of water): http://www.overclockers.com/Tips187/ . Of course, he's cooling his power supply, so he needs a non-conductive liquid.

Lawn garden sized hoses? I'm using 1/2" ID hoses thank you very much http://www.sysopt.com/forum/smile.gif. Koolance ( www.koolance.com (http://www.koolance.com) ) uses 1/4". Koolance systems are not designed to be overclocked. I guess mine is overkill, but it's better than overheating =P.

BTW, chipset and hard drive water cooling is already a reality. Check out that koolance link if you haven't seen it before. The hard drive is surounded in hallowed out aluminum, and water flows through it. Neato!

[This message has been edited by Szech (edited 07-05-2001).]

[hai]

Too much investment for too less gain.

Besides leaking, you need take into account the risk when the pump motor stops function or the water circulation gets stopped for other reasons. That will definitely kill the cpu and motherboard.

Maintainence can be a pain. Weekly water changing? I bet you have to check monthly for leaking and erosion as well.

[Spanky]

I really don't think its too much trouble, It might be right now, but like I said once it became an industry standard it would be normal to hook up your hoses instead of fans.

Besides I REALLY HATE the sound of the fans spinning.

And why would you have to change the water weekly? Ya don't do that in your car do ya?

Szech That hard drive thing does sound cool.

BTW I was reading the review of the new SIS 735? chipset for duron/athlons and it doesn't need any cooling, not even a heatsink.

[RayH]

When you are dealing with LIQUID cooling, you are dealing with potential leaks and condensation. The air can contain abnormal amounts of liquid.

I can tell you from expierence in industrial (whole manufacturing facilities) heating/cooling such is considered the BLACK ART of mechanical engineering. It is a specialty.

People do it successfully all the time. But many have had to do a lot of trial and error. Which means they have replaced their chips more than once!

[Szech]

Yes there are potential problems with water cooling: Leaks, pump failure, fan failure. Whether or not these are worth the gain is on the individual. I like not having any Delta screamers in my computer. I like having temps under 44C in So Cal summer heat. Or at least I did when my motherboard was working http://www.sysopt.com/forum/smile.gif. Paycheck comes on the 15th. My mother's computer just died last week during the heat wave some of the other SoCal`ers can tell you about. I checked it out and sure enough, the processor gave out. Liquid is a much more efficient medium for cooling, and I doubt it would have fried if I had water cooled it.

Since I have some time until I get my computer up again, I started building another water block last week. I'm going to make one of these http://www.overclockers.com/tips315 in the unlikely case that my pump fails. I finished the block yesterday (three pass 1/2" hallowed copper with brass plugs), and if I have time later today, I'll put the hose fittings on. That's one less problem.

And like I said before, I'm not worried about leaks. It is low pressure, the hoses are clamped to their fittings, and I sealed every joint. A hose isn't going to burst when there's only a few psi in the loop.

[Ruahrc]

Well I just built a WC system but haven't gotten the radiator fan in the mail yet so I can't say how good it works. I sealed it about a week or so ago and ran it for about 72 straight hours right after, no leaks. I've been running it on and off lately, with no leaks or anything.

Everybody talks about that one guy who submerged his computer into a vat of mineral oil, I saw the article myself a long time ago, but does anybody know where to find it again?

Thanks

Ruahrc

[scotter]

I've been water cooling off and on for over a year.
If you take all the normal precations then it's as safe as air cooling.
I do not get temps much better/lower than I can get with a really good heatsink fan, but thats not why I water cool.
I do it for the stability of the temps even with the best heatsink fan your going to see a 5 to 10/c diff between idle and 100% usage with water I see no more that a 2/c diff plus I can run my chip at higher voltages and higher speeds and keep almost the same temps as stock voltage and speed.

not going to do that with even the best heatsink fan http://www.sysopt.com/forum/smile.gif

One other resion to water cool is sound if you do it right you can have a virtualy Quite silent computer http://www.sysopt.com/forum/smile.gif

anyway there are some realy nice water cooling kits on the markit now so why not have fun couse that most of what water cooling is about having fun customizing your system

almost forgot the best resion of all to water cool http://www.sysopt.com/forum/smile.gif when your friends come over and see your system and go **** what the Heck is that http://www.sysopt.com/forum/smile.gif


[This message has been edited by scotter (edited 07-06-2001).]

[Ruahrc]

About the noise level of a watercooled system....

I was thinking, wouldn't a watercooled system actually be louder than an air cooled system?

In some cases, it would, wouldn't it? Take for example the cooling device for an air cooled CPU. A heatsink, which is silent, and a fan (depending on what model fan you have) which is in most cases pretty quiet unless you own a 7000rpm fan or something.

Now with a WC system you're replacing the silent heatsink with a water pump, this is actually virtually silent and I find the noise kinda soothing when I tested it out. But the fan on the CPU gets replaced with (in mine and most cases) a 120mm case fan blowing on a radiator. Now I ordered a Panaflo L1A 120mm fan to be nice and quiet (and hope that it will be) but aren't most 120mm fans louder than CPU fans?

Then, if you want an ideal WC setup, you want lots of intake fans in order to keep the positive pressure inside your PC case (this is assuming that your radiator fan is blowing air from inside the case out) to equalize the big 120mm fan blowing air out. This means adding all your case fans back in again.... resulting in more noise.

Granted, extreme air-cooled setups with Swiftech MC42's and more holes for case fans than swiss cheese are definately louder than WC, but in my case I'm afraid the thing will actually be louder than my old setup. (Which in all honesty wasn't that loud because it wasn't really extreme. Plus my 5400rpm hard drive actually contributed more noise to the thing more than any other component. That issue has been thus fixed with a shiny new and much quieter 7200rpm drive.) My new setup now consists of 1 80mm Panaflo sucking air in, 1 120mm Panaflo blowing air out, and the Enermax's Dual fans. If the Panaflo fan is loud the total noise of my system will probably be higher than my old setup (CPU fan, moderately quiet, 2x 80mm fans, 1x 92mm fan, 1x PS fan, all generic and pretty quiet)

Honestly though the fan FINALLY (YAY) gets here on Monday so I'll have to plug it all in and see what comes of it. No arguing the temps I'm going (hoping?) to get though.

Just some food for thought.

Ruahrc

[scotter]

that panaflo should be very Quiet just make sure you do not place it right against your rad your want at least a small shroud and a inch or 2 of clearance
most peeps are running them at less than 12 volts down around the 7 volt mark to make them run really silent and are still getting good air movment from them and plenty of cooling power.
if you have not yet check out HARPOCP's forum / overclocking and cooling
the best forum on the web for watercooling info

[CMonster]

It all depends on the design. Personally I have used both and prefer air whenever possible.

<IMG SRC="http://www.dslextreme.com/users/cmonster3/h2cool.jpg" border=0>

[Ruahrc]

CMonster- I remember that pic! Soon I will have one of my own to add to the collection...... can't wait. (Fan will most likely arrive Monday, if not then Tuesday)

Just had to say that

Ruahrc