Why am I not seeing the performance everyone else is getting?

[ArgonV]

Ok Im sorta pissed... I went out and bought this kick *** system and Im not seeing the HUGE performance boost I should. I went from a P3 500 to an AMD 1.2Ghz.

Heres my current setup:

-AMD 1.2Ghz @ 200 FSB
-256 MB of PC100 SDRAM
-Voodoo5 5500 PCI running the latest Omega drivers and FSAA turned off in d3d and turned to 2x2 in OpenGL and Glide
-ASUS A7V133 MB @ 200 FSB with latest 4in1 driver set
-5.3 Gig Maxator HDD @ 7200 RPM
-15.3 Gig Western Digital HDD @ 7200 RPM
-Sound Blaster Live! X-Gamer sound card with Sidewinder 3d Pro plugged into its gameport
-U.S. Robotics 56K Win INT modem
-6x DvD-ROM drive
-12x CD-ROM drive
-3 1/2 floppy drive
-Serial Cannon CanoScan scanner
-Serial Apollo P-2200 printer
-USB IBM PC Camera
-MS PS2 natural keyboard
-MS PS2 mouse w/wheel

Im running Win98SE with DX 8.0a

I also have 500 min and max virtual memory setting on my 15.3 Gig HDD and the ConservativeSwapFileUsage=1 in my system.ini file under 386Enh

Im not getting that great FPS in Tribes2 (Im running it in D3d at 640x480) or B-172... And performance in other games (WW2 Online, Fighter Squadron, Unreal, Battle of Britain etc..) hasnt improved greatly compaired to my P3 500 setup.

So what is wrong people?!? Whats is slowing my system up??? I dont have hardly anything in startup and everything has cooling. There has to be some catch somewhere. I also have the bare minimun for DOS settings in my Autoexec.bat file and Config.sys file. Could it be my BIOS setup?

Help please!!! Thanks. http://www.sysopt.com/forum/smile.gif

[voogru]

Voodoo5 5500?!

TIP: Take Card Out of System. Throw It For Doggy To Fetch. Buy a Decent video card.

That Video card is Lagging Behind the entire system! and i know Tribes2 is a Resource HOG! you might wanna try getting a better vidoe card for better FPS. at leats a Geforce2 MX or Higher.

Voodoo;s Stink. IMHO

-voogru

[ArgonV]

I have a GeForce2 MX400 64MB AGP laying around.. and I did stick that in. While I got a bit of better performance in Tribes2 and B-172, the visual quality and gamma darkness annoy me greatly. The card is WAY too dark in these games and without FSAA turned on the visual quality is too **** jaggy.

Even with the GeForce2 MX400 in, I couldnt play Tribes2 THAT well. My friend next door running a 1Ghz AMD with a NVIDIA TnT2 32MB card is getting better performance than I am, and Im on a 1.2Ghz AMD CPU!!

The Voodoo5 is a good card... and the visuals with it are great!! Plus it can do Glide. http://www.sysopt.com/forum/wink.gif

I must be getting slowed down from somwhere else...

[ArgonV]

What exactly does that do? I also cant see those entries in the system.ini file..

[This message has been edited by ArgonV (edited 07-01-2001).]

[ArgonV]

Ah I see... Can you copy/paste those entries which you mentioned here from your system.ini file please? http://www.sysopt.com/forum/smile.gif Thanks!

[ArgonV]

Did that and nothing broke! So I assume it worked. http://www.sysopt.com/forum/smile.gif Thanks!

Anyway to tell if it actually does some good?

[DemonKnight]

Was the PC-100 RAM from your old system? you should upgrade it to PC133. and an AGP video card would a good bet as well.

[AndreRIO]

ArgonV
do you have via 4 in 1 (or something similar) installed?
do you have ultra dma enabled?

[ArgonV]

Yes to both questions. http://www.sysopt.com/forum/smile.gif

[eagle1]

Have you tweaked the card to it's fullest?
Do you have v-sync enabled? If you do, disable it.!

You should be getting great performance with that configuration.!

[daveleau]

I don't think a RAM upgrade will bring faster FPS. It appears that the PCI vid is the main bottleneck as the system is a really kicking one. I would try someone elses AGP vid card and see how that works (GeForce, VD 5, or Radeon for AGP). Upgrading form PC100 (8ns) to PC133 (7.5ns) is not going to speed up your system. It may make it more overclockable but that is about it. PC100 will often run at 133fsb.

Good luck
Dave

I want to try out that vcache tweak...thanks

[Dputiger]

While the V5 IS a potential bottleneck in this system, it is not going to bottleneck the games he is playing. Furthermore, there is no performance difference between the AGP and PCI versions of the card.


Now, I'd like to see some benchmarks with and without FSAA turned on. How much of a difference does it make?

[Spanky]

Hi Argon http://www.sysopt.com/forum/smile.gif

With ram being so cheap I would say it wouldn't hurt to drop in another 128-256 megs of ram.

Thats not the bottle neck though.

Really the whole system should be running pretty nice.

I would think it might be something software or setup rather then just a peice of hardware holding it back.

I would say what ya have to do man is get some benchmarking software so you can compare when you change stuff like hardware and just software settings.

Seems like good overall ones are.

3Dmark2001, http://www.madonion.com

and si softsandra, http://www.sisoftware.co.uk/sandra

Try those out and give us some numbers, both also let you compare to systems comparable to yours and sandra gives you tips on improving performance.

[ArgonV]

Thanks guys! I will try the benchmark software ASAP and give you guys some numbers.

About the RAM, I think 256 is PLENTY for this system. Anymore than that at this point is not going to help very much at all, if any!

eagle1, If I turn v-sync off, then wont I see bad "video flipping" and tears in my games?

Dputiger, just to give you an idea of FPS with and without FSAA: In CFS2 with one plane and moderate clouds without FSAA and full blast graphics on everything running at 1024x768 16-bit I get 50-65 (And sometimes even 70) FPS. But when I turn FSAA on the FPS drops to about 20-30.

I may pop that GeForce2 MX400 back in if I start to get really pissed. I wont beable to play Fighter Squadron in all its Glide glory tho... http://www.sysopt.com/forum/frown.gif And that is a flight sim I play ALOT.

[robin801]

where can i get the downloads for via 4n1 drivers? also drivers for the nvidia geforce2mx.


i also added the information about the system,ini vchache. i ran 3dmark2001. i went from a 1890 to 1942. where do i go to see if the v-sync is enabled and the ultra dma?

i also have pny cas2 133 ram but in sis sandra it shows up as 100. where in my bios can i check to see if it has 100 or 133? will changing this make a difference in my system performance?

robin

[This message has been edited by robin801 (edited 07-02-2001).]

[hallam2003]

not my thread, but i have a Q. how do you enabmle ultra dma? is it in the bios?

Hallam

[ArgonV]

Guys, I ran 3Dmark2001 with the default settings (1024x768 32bit with compressed textures, D3d T&L and no FSAA) and my score was 949 3DMarks. Is that good or bad? And if its bad, then what can I do to improve it? (Besides getting another graphics card)

Thanks! http://www.sysopt.com/forum/smile.gif

DMA can be enabled in Windows. Go to System under Control Panel and click on the Device Manager tab. Then scroll down to disk drives and select your hard drive that supports DMA. Then click on properties and check the DMA box. Then click Ok and restart.

Newer faster CD ROM drivers also support DMA (DvD-ROM drives and fast CD-ROM drives above 20x I believe. I know my 12x doesnt support it)

[This message has been edited by ArgonV (edited 07-02-2001).]

[Dputiger]

Argon,

Not necessarily. 3DMark 2001 is optimized both for a hardware T&L unit AND for the GeForce3.

A better benchmark would be for you to d/l 3DMark 2000. See how it performs. That way, also, I'd have a better idea what you should be seeing.

[ArgonV]

Can you post a direct link to that prog? Thanks! http://www.sysopt.com/forum/smile.gif

[DemonKnight]

I got 1054 3dmarks in 3dmark 2000 and I have a amd k6-2 @500 with an ati xpert 2000 32meg AGP 2x card. I'll dl 3d mark 2001 later and check its results to yours. but that does seem very low.. have you tried defraging your hard drive? (couldent hurt)

[Spanky]

Actually 3dmark 2001 is alot harder on systems.

theres a HUGE difference between the numbers you will get from 3dmark 2000

My 3dmark 2000 score was in the 900s, my 3dmark 2001 score was around 380 somthing, ofcourse my system is pretty old and crappy, but it plays most of the games I play at an acceptable level.

Can't wait to upgrade though http://www.sysopt.com/forum/smile.gif




[This message has been edited by Spanky (edited 07-02-2001).]

[Dudster]

For 3DMark2000 http://gamershq.madonion.com/download/

My 3DMark2000 default bench score 4549
My 3DMark2001 default bench score 1672
Quake 3 1.29f timedemo 88fps @ 640x480 max detail

Heres my current setup:

-AMD 800MHz @ 200 FSB
-256 MB of PC133 CAS 2 SDRAM
-Creative Labs AGP Geforce 256 with Creative's drivers based on Nvidia 6.34s
-ASUS A7V MB @ 200 FSB with version 4.29 4in1 driver set
-30Gig IBM HDD @ 7200 RPM
-10Gig Western Digital HDD @ 5400 RPM
-Sound Blaster Live! with Sidewinder Game Pad plugged into its gameport
-56K Win PCI modem
-40x CD-ROM drive
-3 1/2 floppy drive
-IBM PS2 old school keyboard
-MS PS2 mouse w/wheel

Im running Win98SE with DX 8

vcache at default, vsync enabled (though 3Dmark will disable it while running)

I hate jaggies and low resolutions but I hate low frame rates much more. I haven't had any gamma probs on my Geforce but you could adjust yours in the display properties. If you need Glide, you might be able to get a Glide wrapper (emulator) for your Geforce (Creative Labs do one for mine but I've never used it).

Another thing, is there anything sharing your graphics card's IRQ?

EDIT: Unreal would definately suffer if you switched to the Geforce but I'm not sure how much.

[This message has been edited by Dudster (edited 07-02-2001).]

[ArgonV]

Wow! Something is REALLY slowing my system down then... I think I'll pop the GeForce in and test later.

What res are you running in 3DMark2001??

[Dputiger]

Argon,

The GeFOrce's will ALWAYS outperform a Voodoo in 3Dmark2000 and 2001. Both programs are optimized for Hardware T&L--far more than most applications!

Neither are good benchmarks.

[Dputiger]

Argon,

The GeFOrce's will ALWAYS outperform a Voodoo in 3Dmark2000 and 2001. Both programs are optimized for Hardware T&L--far more than most applications!

Neither are good benchmarks. Actually, let me rephrase that. They are both good benchmarks, but must be taken with a grain of salt.

[Dudster]

In 3DMark2001 I'm benching at the default settings so the resolution is 1024x768.

Dputiger is absolutely right about taking the results with a pinch of salt. My 3DMark2000 score with default settings but T&L in software was about 3200. I didn't try a software T&L benchmark in 3DMark2001 but it might still've scored higher than yours (if I get round to trying it, I'll post the results). Quake 3 also uses T&L.

Did you check your IRQs?

[[BR]Magikal]

Have you tried the wicked GL drivers?
I have had great luck with them in all gl games. I usually get around 50-70fps in quake 3 with fsaa2x 16bit color and all game settings to max in 1024x768 resolution.

what are the omega drivers? I have never heard of them. can you give a link?

oh and here is the wicked gl link http://www.wicked3d.com/technology/wickedgl.htm

[ArgonV]

For the OMEGA drivers go here: http://www.omegacorner.com/ and click on 3dfx in the left menu.

For the latest GeForce drivers, go here: http://www.nvidia.com/view.asp?PAGE=windows9x

For the GeForce Tweak utility, go here: http://tweakfiles.com/video/geforcetweakutility.html

For the ASUS 4in1 drivers, go here: http://www.asus.com/products/motherboard/bios.html and select your motherboard type.

[Dputiger]

I've not played CS--could you benchmark the system in Quake3 or UT?

[ArgonV]

Hmmm... still tho, compaired to your score, mine is still pretty damned low. And I even have a "better" system than yours! (AMD 800 compaired to an AMD 1.2Ghz)

The vid card uses IRQ 11 but there are no conflictions. Would is slow it down if there was IRQ sharing with no confliction?

I havent tried the GeFOrce2 MX400 I have yet... I will get around to it tho!!

[Dudster]

I just thought of something. After you do a benchmark on 3DMark2000 or 2001 with the Voodoo, click on the Online Results Browser button in the results window. You'll connect to Madonion.com, create an account and then compare your results to others with identicle specs. At least you'll get an idea of how far you are from the level your machine should be with the Voodoo. If you can, also do a compare with machines the same but with GeForce 2 MXs in software T&L mode. Bear in mind that a lot of other peoples results will be very high for their specs due to overclocking (my machine isn't overclocked). If you're halfway down the "league table", you're doing OK.

It would also be a good idea to spread your net and start a thread in the Gamer HQ forums at www.madonion.com (http://www.madonion.com)

[Dudster]

Yeah, your CPU is a lot quicker than mine but 3DMark seems fairly unaffected by the processor. My score didn't change much when I went from a K6-III to my T-Bird. Grand Prix 3 would probably run quicker on yours (it barely uses 3D acceleration). I have better RAM though and AGP 4X with fast-writes. I'm not being competetive BTW http://www.sysopt.com/forum/biggrin.gif

My vid card also uses IRQ 11 and shares it with ACPI IRQ HOLDER FOR PCI IRQ STEERING (which I think is the only thing the vid card should share an IRQ with, and especially shouldn't share it with your sound card). It doesn't sound like an IRQ problem then unless something else entirely is conflicting with something (I had to disable SB 16 Emulation to get Grand Prix 3 to even load, it was on IRQ 5 along with about 4 other things like modem and USB).

I spose a lot depends on your games, with the games I play, I am without question better off with my GeForce than your Voodoo.

Oh yeah, if you try the GeForce, completely remove the previous card's drivers. I'm not sure on the procedure for removing Voodoo drivers but the correct way of removing GeForce drivers can be found here www.geforcefaq.com (http://www.geforcefaq.com) After installing the drivers for the new card, reinstall Direct X for good measure to.

Good luck, I'm off to bed.

[This message has been edited by Dudster (edited 07-03-2001).]

[ArgonV]

Yeah I do have a 4x AGP slot with fast write... theres just nothing in it, LoL! http://www.sysopt.com/forum/wink.gif

About the score compairisons: Well I did so and mine are REALLY low compaired to others! With almost the EXACT same system! http://www.sysopt.com/forum/frown.gif Something is terribly wrong here... Could it be a bad CPU? I got the OEM version and on boot up it does say its a genuine AMD 1.2Ghz CPU. :confused:

Im going to stick in that GeForce2 MX400 RIGHT now and give it another go around. Ive had my computer on for 48 hours without one reboot and my system rescources are down to 20% Hehehehehe!!!!!!!

[ArgonV]

Well guys I stuck it in... What can I say!!! :eek: I went from 949 to 2,200 something!! http://www.sysopt.com/forum/biggrin.gif I cant believe that card makes THAT much of a difference...

My bad!! Thanks again guys!!!

[Spanky]

Problem is that even a good score in 3dmark doesn't mean you will get great game playing it seems.

It seems like it ups your score just cause you have hardware T&L, but what if the games you play don't use the hardware T&L?

Still though its good for comparing to similar systems.

Have you tried the Sisoft sandra?

Its good for hard drive, ram and CPU tests. Plus it gives you tips http://www.sysopt.com/forum/smile.gif

[ArgonV]

It maybe true that the V5 may beat the GeForce2 MX400 in Quake 3... But the fact is I dont play that game, lol. http://www.sysopt.com/forum/smile.gif I just got the latest drivers and tweaked the heck out of the GeForce2 like I had it before... But its still too **** dark IMO in all games even when I mess with the gamma settings in the Display properties. They need to have individual gamma adjustments for all the differnt types of renderers... http://www.sysopt.com/forum/frown.gif Like the Voodoo 5 has. http://www.sysopt.com/forum/biggrin.gif

[darrelld]

Argon,
I have a Duron 900@1100
30gig WD 5400 RPM
384 MB PC133
Voodoo 3 3000 AGP

My scores on 3d mark 2000 are 3500
Passmark 176
But all those benchmarks don't mean squat.
I've seen and played with the ge-force cards, and while they are faster they have nothing on the Voodoo's. It's a real shame 3dfx is gone now.
The last system this card was in was a k6-2 450,128 ram, 15gb ibm 7200rpm.
This was only a month ago, even in that system it had no trouble playing any game, even the most current ones. In fact, I do play Q3 Arena, and although my benchmarks have gone up, and my FPS in the game have gone up, there is no visual difference.
BTW, If your convinced that Voodoo 5 is a bottleneck in your system, I would gladly take it off your hands.

[ArgonV]

Yeah the Voodoo5 5500 is a nice card indeed... But it has a seriously hard time with Tribes2, B-172 and BoB... http://www.sysopt.com/forum/frown.gif And those are games I play alot!

I think I'll keep my V5 card JUST incase I decide to go back to it... I just may if I run more tests etc with the GeForce2 MX400 and am still not satisfied. Hell I may even just go out and buy a GeForce3 if I get totally fed up! LoL!

[msterzer]

Charmler, were those minfilecache and maxfilecache numbers you gave based on the amount of system memory? If I had 512 MB of PC2100 would those numbers be different? I ask because in an earlier reply of yours, you said to set it to I believe 1/8 and 1/4 of system memory. How do the numbers you gave for min and max relate to the amount of system memory?

[Dputiger]

Argon,

I might be interested in your V5 if you don't want it--let me know.

[doggabone]

RE: System/Disk Cache

If you would like to make your life easier, try this freeware utility from Outertech http://www.outertech.com/ called Cacheman. I found it to be a much easier way to try different cache settings, and the presets seem to cover a wide range of ground.

Even Outertech points out that it won't save every system, but my PIII 500/256 MB Windows 98SE machine is to my perception running smoother, with a little less disk I/O. My RAM monitors show my idle time free RAM at 150 MB (approx.) and it used to be down around 90. You will even find, in the System Properties/Performance tab + File System button, an entry in the drop list for "Cacheman Optimization", allowing you to easily switch to one of the system's presets. My quick fix solution used to be to switch from there to "Network Server" which gave a slightly improved "read-ahead" performance.

It might be worth a try =) and the price is right.

[Dputiger]

Argon,

YOu'll have to trust me on this one. Although your GeForce2 MX will outperform the V5 in 3DMark2001, fire up Quake 3, set it for 1024x768x32, max out the detail settings, and bench that sucker.

Watch the V5 beat the MX.

Kick the resolution up to 1280x1024

Watch the V5 beat the MX.

Bottom line--3DMark performance isn't everything.

[Illegal Alien]

I have virtually the same system as you Argon and games such as Deus Ex fly (i don't have Tribes 2 so can't compare that)

- AMD 1Ghz@1.1
- 256MB RAM
- Voodoo5 5500 AGP running last beta drivers released
- WinME

I run all games with 2X FSAA with no problems. I can garentee you that the Voodoo card isn't the problem in your system. Unfortunaltly i can't tell what is though. As metioned above 3DMARK scores are aload of cr@p as my system only got around 1700 on the 2001 version yet games run very smoothly.

[Dudster]

Whoops, looks like I underestimated the Voodoo5. I'm surprised that it outperforms the GeForce in Quake 3 (a game which can use hardware T&L) though Quake 3 does support Glide. If your machine performs so much worse than other almost identicle machines using the Voodoo (and as expected with the GeForce), I would suspect the Voodoo drivers you were using (I'm practically certain you haven't got a dodgy CPU). Maybe you should try those lastest Betas or the Wicked GL thing.

Maybe Tribes 2 has got problems with the Voodoo (or maybe, with specific Voodoo drivers). Have a look round the Tribes website (same for your other games that are faster with the GeForce).

[ArgonV]

Illegal Alien, even your score is WAY better than mine with the V5. Mine was 900 something and yours was 1700 something... I dont know exactly what IS bogging up my system, but the V5 IS part of the problem.

There IS a problem with Voodoo cards and Tribes2. I play Tribes2 quite alot and with the GeForce2 MX400 I can tell theres a major increase in performance. Same with B-172 and BoB...

I was using the 1.04.00 drivers with the V5. They perform the best and are most compatable.

[E-Z-Eroc]

ArgonV, is your V5 PCI or AGP?

I have T-Bird 1200 @ 1400 256MB PC133 on V5 5500AGP and I can run tribes2 with no problems at all at 1024*768 32bit, let me refraise that very well, even better then my brothers geforce2 GTS can. I have no problems with any of my games running slow 3Dmark2000 4098 , 3Dmark 2001 1978. Something deffinetly sounds wrong with your system, oh my OS is WIN2K.


[This message has been edited by E-Z-Eroc (edited 07-04-2001).]

[ArgonV]

My V5 is PCI, which is probably part of the problem aswell... And Im on Win98SE.

[Overkill[TBP]]

I have just about everything he does aswell, and Tribes 2 and I know theres a problem with FPS, but the newest WickedGL drivers make it a whole lot better. Someone mentioned before to get those, and so do I, and I think you should keep the voodoo5.

I didn't want to buy a new video card just to play one game and get good preforance out of it, now since those drivers came out every server that I played on, I'm a non stop killing machine.

My setup.

1.2ghz TBird @ 1.33ghz
512mb's PC100 SDRAM
Voodoo5 5500 AGP running the latest Omega as well, along with WickedGL and running at 177mhz
Abit KT7A-RAID, latest Via's drivers
30gig Western Digital 5400
10gig Western Digital 7200
Sound Blaster Live Platinum 5.1
24x10x40 TDK CDRW
Kenwood 62x TrueX CDROM

Win ME and DX 8.0a "although I use opengl in Tribes2"

A 1gig swap file "hey why not?"

[Llew]

Hi All,Hi ArgonV,

Well,in my experiance,everything that's been mentioned here so far is on target...I run a PIII-800eb on a Via chipset with a cheapie Chinese knockoff of a GeForce2MX,which is heavily overclocked,and 256M of 133 RAM,with Win98SE...my best average 3DMark2000 was about 4800,and my best 3DMark2001 was 1777.
Just 3 things I think I can add...First,go to your Bios and chek what the AGP Transfer setting<or somthing like that> is at,the standard setting for a GeForce card in AGP 4x is EA...Second,did you do a complete Fdisk and Format on your HDs before you started all this? Nothing like sloppy drives from another system to slow things down...and Thirdly,make sure and completely delete all former drivers from your system when you do all these graphics card changes...it's been my experiance that Win does a terrible job of juggling drivers,even when it's a clean install...try re-installing both your Via 4in1 and your graphics drivers a couple of times to make sure they're locked in,every time you change cards...do the 4in1 first,reboot,if you're using AGP,go to the AGP folder in the Via4in1 folder and apply the AGP OEM registry entry...then do the graphic drivers a couple of times...less than that,and your system could be doing anything,good luck.
Llew

[rschwab]

I think your all missing the boat. The difference between a fast system and a system with fast parts is the BIOS.
This is where your efforts should be directed. The BIOS makes everything work together or not as some of you are finding.
Learn what settings are available and exploit them. Dell/Compaq/Gateway2000, etc don't bother. They just set everyyhing to the middle of the road. Good machine companies like Falcon Northwest & Alienware
use the same parts as the above makers but their machines smoke.Why - BIOS.

[rummings]

First of all you should be seeing great performance with your current setup. After looking at your specs I question what wacko built your system.

I think you need to ask your computer manufactor (builder) the following questions.

1)Why did the use PC100? The standard is PC133 or the new DDR SDRAM.
2)12x CDROM! Did you use componets from your old system?
If you are playing games that take a CD in the drive to play you should replace it with a 32X or above.You also need to check your bios settings. Make sure that your video is shadowed, DMA is enabled L2 is enabled. Both C memory locations should be shadowed.

Download SISOFT Sandra. This has some great trouble shooting and benchmark tools.

[Dputiger]

Actually, BIOS optimizations really might BE the issue here. Can you share your settings for Advanced and Peripherals?

[Dputiger]

Oh yes.

I found some information on Tribes2.

The game no longer natively supports Glide, which means it will run like pure *** on 3Dfx hardware.

There's your Tribes2 problem right there.

[ArgonV]

Ok guys... To answer all the questions:

First off the settings in the BIOS right now are all of what you have metioned! Fastwrite is enabled, system performance is on optimal, video shadow is enabled and DMA is enabled on all my drives except my 12x. L2 cache is also enabled... In Win98SE under System, I also am using both IDE channels instead of the default setting. (For the hard drive controller)

All previous graphics card drivers are gone, (Off the hard drive and in the registry) deleted all the usesless graphics card entries in safe mode, and the 4in1 driver setup has ben ran (again) with AGP in turbo mode. Im also using the GeForce Tweak utility that enables fast writes and AGP 4x for my ASUS VIA chipset board.

What is the AGP OEM registry entry?

rummings, I built my system. The mother board supports PC133 SDRAM, but I used the PC100 SDRAM off of my old system. Why? Because it wont make THAT much of a performance increase if I go to PC133 AND I dont have the money to go out and buy 256MB of PC133 SDRAM. The 12x CD-ROM is also off of my old system. All I use if for is listening to music CDs and to access older CD-ROMS that dont like the fast CD-ROM drives or DvD-ROM drives of today. But I DO have a 6x DvD-ROM drive and that is PLENTY fast enough for installing games and accessing large files off of them.

Yes I know Tribes2 doesnt support Glide anymore. Thats why I bought the GeForce in the first place! to play Tribes2 smoothly. http://www.sysopt.com/forum/smile.gif

[This message has been edited by ArgonV (edited 07-05-2001).]

[Shagnasty]

I'm not much into Gaming...and I don't much
care about Benchmarks...You can tell pretty
much whether you have an improvement just
by running a few Apps...I do use the GeForce
2 MX 32mb and it seems to be pretty good...
I would definitely upgrade the Ram right off
It's cheap and I think it will make some
difference...Also you have 7200rpm HD's, but
are they ATA/100 ? That could make a real
difference...
One last thing...and I'm not exactly sure
what it is...but hit Ctrl/Alt/Del and check
your running Apps for "MMTASK"...I had been
thinking that it was the System Restore
operation for Win ME that was running it on
my system, but I'm not so sure now...It does
allow for Background Multimedia operations...
Anyhow...when it's running on my systme the
speed is cut like in half...Like putting
on the air brakes...End Task and she's right
up to speed again...

[Dudster]

About BIOS settings, I don't know about the Voodoo but with the GeForce, video shadow should be disabled.

I take it that both cards couldn't both be installed together. On my old system I had a Riva TNT in the AGP slot and a Voodoo 2 in a PCI slot. The readme for Outcast said that this could cause problems with the game (I didn't notice any problems).

More info on recommended BIOS settings for your GeForce can be found here www.geforcefaq.com (http://www.geforcefaq.com)

Here's a link to what is apparently an excellent article on BIOS optimisation (I haven't read it yet, I'll have a look now) www.rojakpot.com/Speed_Demonz.htm (http://www.rojakpot.com/Speed_Demonz.htm) Most of my BIOS settings are at default except Fast-writes, Video cache set to uncached, AGP aperture 128MB, primary VGA AGP, Plug & play OS yes and video shadow disabled.

I still doubt those voodoo drivers you were using http://www.sysopt.com/forum/smile.gif

[ArgonV]

Im not running mtask. That is a useless program IMO for a gaming system...

I believe my hard drives are ATA66. Is there anyway to be sure? I still dont have that much money to spend on RAM...

About the video shadow option in the BIOS, well Ive heard different things from everyone! How do I know who to trust? LoL trial and error I guess...

Ive read alot of that GeForce FAQ (Ive had the link for some time now...)

[This message has been edited by ArgonV (edited 07-05-2001).]

[Skinnydaddy]

Also one of the thing that will help is removeing some of the extra hardware off the system. Your system only comes with 15 IRQ's and can be slowed down by the motherboard trying to use IRQ shareing to keep all of hardware running. Please visit link below for more information.
http://www.amd.com/support/faqs/irq.html

Also deleting temp files and running scandisk and defrag will help. If it comes down to it, Fdisk the harddrive and start all over. My current system is:

Intel P3 1g
Asus CUSL2-C motherboard
256mg pc133 SDram
Maxtor 20gig Hdd 7200 UDMA 66
Hp CD-RW 9100+ (Ya I know but it was cheap)
gforce 2 gts 32mg ddr
56k V90 modem
PS2 MS keyboard
USB Intellimouse optic

W98se

System runs great. Never had a single major problem with it. (knock on wood)
Hopefully this helps.

Skinnydaddy

Programming today is a race between software engineers striving to build bigger and better idiot-proof programs, and the Universe trying to produce bigger and better idiots. So far, the Universe is winning." -- Rich Cook




[This message has been edited by Skinnydaddy (edited 07-05-2001).]

[Dudster]

If your hard drives show up as UDMA 4 in the system configuration screen just after the POST, DMA is ticked in the device manager and you enabled DMA when installing the VIA 4 in 1s, I think you can be certain that your drives are running in ATA66 mode. Some hard drive manufacturers have utilities to detect and change the ATA mode (I have one for my Western Digital drive).

I think I got the video shadow disabled for GeForce thing from geforcefaq.com (amongst other places).

I used to have 128MB of generic PC100 CAS 3 RAM in my machine before I got my Micron PC133 CAS 2 stick. I hardly noticed any increase in performance but my previously unstable machine (Quake 3 Team Arena would crash after a few minutes of play) was suddenly rock solid. If you do get a GeForce 3 (as I plan to), be prepared for the possability of it not "getting on" with your RAM.

[ArgonV]

Ben doing system tests... So far everything seems pretty stable. (Surprisingly with all teh **** Ive tweaked) Detonator 12.41 drivers are pretty good ones for my GeForce2 MX400.

Im getting 1766 3d score in 3DMark2001 with VSync turned on, and 2,235 with VSync turned off. Thats WAY better than the V5... But the V5 visual quality is still better than that of a GeForce. I guess you have to make sacrifices somewheres eh? http://www.sysopt.com/forum/wink.gif

Im playing Tribes2 in OpenGL in 800x600 with 32 bit textures and no VSync and Im getting good framerates. (Before on my V5, I had to play it in D3d so the textures wouldnt look corrupted and at 640x480 in 16 bit with some detail turned down) I did tons of tests compairing the GeForce2 MX400 AGP and the Voodoo5 5500 PCI (I did all the V5 tests before all of this mess)

In some games you cant tell any difference hardly (CFS2, Half-Life, Warbirds3, WW2 Online) but in other games (Tribes2, BoB, B172, Homeworld) you can tell that the GeForce performs MUCH better. I just wish I could solve all the dark issues with some games I have...

I still would expect somwhat better performance out of this system tho... Maybe I'll save up and go get me some PC133 SDRAM although I doubt it will make any difference at all.

Dudster, in bootup it say my 20Gig hardrive is in UDMA 4, the 5.3Gig in UDMA 2, the DvD-ROM drive in UDMA 2 and the 12x is in Mode 4. http://www.sysopt.com/forum/smile.gif

[This message has been edited by ArgonV (edited 07-05-2001).]

[Dputiger]

There's something you should honestly know, Argon: Your system is not under-performing as far as I can tell--except that your video card is weak.

Frankly, even your GF2: MX 400 is a weak card these days.

The good news is: You need have no worries about a weak processor. My Duron 700 @ 700, 100 Mhz FSB, gets a score of about 3 K on 3DMark 2001. Here's my system:

Duron 700
100 Mhz FSB
100 Mhz RAM speed
256 meg RAM
GeForce2 Pro

Notice? Yours beats mine in every respect, save the 'Pro.' I guarantee you, that's the bottleneck here.

IF you want to test, do the following:

Head out to Yahoo and search for 'Folding @ Home'

Download the client.

Run the program. On an Athlon 1200, with all things running well, it should take you between 2 minutes at 2 minutes 30 seconds to process a frame. (a frame is a unit of animation)

If this is the case, I can confirm you don't have a processor bottleneck.

For other tests, download SiSoft Sandra and check it out. If you run its benchmarks and see your performance equalizing out with the other systems, you are good to go.

[baatar]

Just a thought. Is there a such setting in your BIOS as PCI Latency? I heard that for PCI video cards this value should be set to somewhat higher than average when playing games.

[ArgonV]

baatar, yes there is that setting, but the GeFOrce2 MX400 is an AGP card. http://www.sysopt.com/forum/smile.gif

[nick t]

D post

[This message has been edited by nick t (edited 07-06-2001).]

[nick t]

just for reference

My System P111 800 (100FSB) Clocked to 125fsb
GeForce2Mx AGP
256Mb Ram
30Gb 7200 IBM HD ATA 66

3DMark2000 score 5068

[Dudster]

in bootup it say my 20Gig hardrive is in UDMA 4, the 5.3Gig in UDMA 2, the DvD-ROM drive in UDMA 2 and the 12x is in Mode 4.

Yep, that all looks as it should be. I think UDMA 2 is 16.6 MB/sec though it could be 33MB/sec. Mode 4 is the fastest non-UDMA mode which sounds right for that CD-ROM drive.

Another thing, getting an ATA100 drive would be a waste of time unless you needed a new drive anyway. It would hardly be any improvement over a 7200rpm ATA66 drive (as long as the drives cache is decent anyway i.e. 2MB). Don't believe me? Look here http://www.sysopt.com/forum/smile.gif www.realworldtech.com/page.cfm?ArticleID=RWT011701000000 (http://www.realworldtech.com/page.cfm?ArticleID=RWT011701000000) And remember, unless your current memory actually gives you instability problems, don't bother upgrading to PC133.

[baatar]

I know that your GeForce is AGP. I was referencing to V5. All your problems, as far as i can judge from your posts, arouse when you put that Voodoo, right?

And what are the numbers on PCI Latency in BIOS? Try different settings (with or without V5) and post your impressions (was that right word ? ... I'm not that good in English).

Good luck.

[baatar]

Oh, and about games being dark with GeForce.
I'd recommend Powerstrip (www.tweakfiles.com/video/powerstrip.html).
Great utility for tweaking video cards. You can have multiple gamma adjastments, for example, and switch between them instantly with one click of a mouse. It even has predefined gamma settings for Voodoo and Geforce family cards. A extremely useful (and not for overcloking only), must have utility.

[ArgonV]

Dudster,
Yes thanks for the advice... I know that upgrading to those items would a waste of money at this point... http://www.sysopt.com/forum/smile.gif

baatar,
Well I really wasnt having problems with the V5 (Except in Tribes2) but I was just getting crappy 3dMark2001 scores and some games were no where near as fast as I would expect them to be with the system I have.

I believe the PCI latency number right now is 32 or 31. Ive changed them some but never noticed any difference...

Is this powerstrip program free?

[Llew]

Hey ArgonV,

I'd have to agree with the guy that posted right after me,earlier...as soon as I finished my post,I couldn't help think it sounds like a BIOS setting thing...chek out the BIOS Optimization Guide over at Speed Demons - http://www.rojakpot.com/Speed_Demonz/BIOS_Guide/BIOS_Guide_Index.htm
...it's a very good guide,and there's alot more settings to tweak than the ones you mention you've already covered...especially take a look at your L2 Cache Latency...I manually control mine,and use either 2 or 3,depending how my system is feeling...latest driver offerings from Via and nVidia have given me the chance to go up to L2 Latency-2,without any noticable data loss in processing.
Another suggestion that came to mind is to simply chek all your machine's internal connectors,cover the basics...make sure everything's firmly attatched and in the right place...I recently changed my factory CPU heatsink/fan for a GoldenOrb cooler,and while I was there,i gently pressed each corner on my naked CPU into it's ceramic home with a finger nuckle,to avoid leaving any grease from my hand...and it may just be psychological,but I could swear the system ran abit smoother afterwards...
...which doesn't surprise me too much,since I had that part of my install originally done by the retailer,and they made alot of other errors...
For the AGP OEM registry entry...just go to your Via4in1 folder,open it...the first thing you should see is another folder marked AGP,open that...and in there is a registry entry marked OEM...double-click it and then answer Yes to having it included in your registry...
If anyone has WinME,there's a seperate AGP registry entry in the AGPME folder...I've never needed it,but you may as well give it a try...
I'm not exactly sure what the entry does,aside from the obvious referance to a standard AGP registry entry...but it's never done my systems harm,and it always smooths and speeds performance abit...if you for any reason don't like it,just reinstall the 4in1.
One last thing that comes to mind,is some incompatibilities I've had with my Via chipset and my plug-in cards...I'd recommend a trip over to Viahardware.com for some added details,thou some of their stuff is way out of date.
I've got a Soyo 7VCA2,with a somewhat hybridized Via chipset on it...Soyo used a different PCI north bridge than Via does for their ApolloProII...but they're essentially the same chipset,except Via says it's ATA-66 compatible,and Soyo says they're ATA-100 compatible...kinda confusing if you ask me...
Anyway the incompatibilities I encountered were,foremost,with my SBLive!Value soundcard,the system kept rejecting it over and over,I actually had to install the latest SB drivers with the card out of it's slot,and then install the card,before the system would settle down...with the new drivers,all was well. This is,as far s I know,an undocumented bug.
For a slightly documented bug,there's the 2nd incompatibility I had,between anything Via,and anything GeForce...my GeForce performance increased as the driver developement from nVidia did...until today,with the D3-V.12.41 being recently released,all questions seem to be answered.
You might want to read up on the Web,on your other internal components,see if you have any incompatibilities between them?
Hope this helps, Llew

[This message has been edited by Llew (edited 07-07-2001).]

[This message has been edited by Llew (edited 07-07-2001).]

[Llew]

Hey again...

If you're really into speeding your system,you can try going to Micron SDRAM,or some other hot manufacturer that makes RAM that regularly performs at CAS-2...95% of SDRAM you can buy today is naturally built to CAS-3...it effects your Cycle Length setting,in BIOS <2 or 3> ...and can be a sweet upgrade,if you're really into FPS...the price on RAM has never been lower,as far as I know...I can get a 256M stick of Micron 133 for $77,this week,even up here in the Great White North...2 months ago the same thing was $160 ;-) Llew

[devrizz]

so let's try a different approach....... like cleaning up the registry. under win98, i use Norton Windoctor (part of norton utilities and /or systemworks), mcafee office, and Regvac, which has has a free trial version. Windoctor searches for moved / deleted files, and will let you choose whether to let windoctor pick the remedy, or let the user pick. I ALWAYS decide myself, cuz, if it can't find the right file, it will look for the same name elsewhere. so don't be lazy. in mcafee office, run the uninstaller, then powerclean (i hope i'm, tellingyou this correctly! -- i doon't have it on my system here to double check) and look for disconnected registry items and also for disconnected desktop items. get rid of 'em!! i use regvac on my system(win2K), can't use the others on win2k. had a computer at the office, was running SOOOOOOO SLOOOOOOW it was unbearable. ran mccafee, deleted the unconnedted registry items, and WOW!! give it a try and let me know!
david

[Spanky]

Argonv, when you built your new system did you format and reinstall windows or just let windows install all the drivers for the new board?

I would get some new HIGH QUALITY ram pc133 if you don't mind overclocking, running a faster front side bus could certainly help, plus if you upgrade to a 266fsb chip in the future you will already have the ram.


One more thought, I thought B17 2, tribes 2 and BOB were all buggy games that didn't really run all that great for ANYONE?

They certainly don't seem like games to test your performance on.

And once again, get Sisoft Sandra and run that.

[Llew]

Sandra is a good thing to have,althou I wish it gave more detail and offered more tips and suggestions...it's also a little inaccutrate here and there,but so is everything on computers.
Another good registry utility is Microsloth's own RegClean...which can be found in the Microsoft Download Center. http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/search.asp ...just tell them what OS you have and what program you'd like to search for downloads for,and it's in there,in fact,there's a RegClean homepage,but I don't have the address handy.
For all the supposed perils and risks of making changes to the Registry,I've used RegClean at least 30 times,and have never had a major bug arise from it...
Ah ha...I do have the RegClean address http://www.regedit.com/ ...tons o'good stuff

[This message has been edited by Llew (edited 07-07-2001).]

[Dudster]

I'm using EasyCleaner 1.5 to clean my registry. I just found a new version of it at www.tweakfiles.com/registry/easycleaner.html (http://www.tweakfiles.com/registry/easycleaner.html) All the other registry tools are there to (RegCleaner looks like a good one).

I run it before every defrag and the only problem I ever encountered was with DirectX 7/7a. It would display a registry key to Windows\System\gchand.dll as unnecessary. I deleted it but DX Diag then said I should reinstall Direct X. From then on I deleted all unnessary reg keys except this one. I now use DirectX 8 and this key no longer appears as invalid.