Getting Started...

[cmclaugh]

First off, If this is in the wrong place I appologize, this forum seemed to be the most general and most appropriate place for this post.

I am looking to build a new PC early this september when I go back out to school. This will be my first homebuilt PC, and although I am fairly competent with computers, I am by no means an expert. I would like to build a fairly nice computer that will be able to run all the new, top of the line games. Something my old laptop won't do. I would say $3000 would be my price cap, I would prefer lower, but would like not to go too much higher then that. I am playing Star Wars Galaxies right now, and plan on buying Everquest 2 when it releases. I want to be able to play both games with all options to the max.

Right now I am fairly familiar with different graphics cards, Intel chips, etc., however my knowledge of different motherboards and other components are nearly non-existant.

I am looking for good websites, forums, or published mags/books that will help me get started. These forums seem to have a ton of good information on them, and I will continue to read as much as I can. I need to find out which components are best for what I need, and where to get them at the cheapest prices. Any starter information would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks

[nothing]

Let the Athlon vs Intel discussion begin :rolleyes:

With that amount of money to spend, I would get all the new stuff that came out like the P4 3.2ghz, ATI Radeon 9800 Pro, Audigy 2, a GOOD surround system, big hd, lots of RAM, I would have to study a little about the motherboard.

[MJCfromCT]

3000 is your price cap? lets see...

Asus A7N8X Deluxe Mobo
AMD Athlon XP 3000+
1.5 GB PC 3200
GFX 5900 Ultra
any HDD w/8mb cache
19" Flat CRT Monitor (Viewsonic, the ultrabrite ones)
CD-RW
DVD+RW

...you'll be able to play all your games with the settings to the max...all at the same time :)

www.newegg.com
www.tigerdirect.com (don't hound be, i like the site!)
www.pricegrabber.com

you can price that all out on those sites, you should def. fall short of 3K

[MJCfromCT]

...forgot some things :)

Thermaltake Xaser Series III Case
Any Keyboard/Mouse/floppy drive you want
Soundblaster Audigy, although I don't have a problem with onboard audio

Motherboard: 120
CPU: 250ish
GPU: 500
RAM: 250ish
HDD: 100-250 (how big do you want to go?)
Case: 150
Keyboard/Mouse/Floppy: 100 total
Audio Card: 150 (not totally sure on this)
Monitor: 250-300
200 bucks to modd the whole thing
CD-RW Drive: 100
DVD+RW Drive: 200
Total: $2570

That'd be one heck of a computer :)

[cmclaugh]

Thanks for the responces, Im going to lay out everything I need then order it all once I get out to school at the end of this month. What is the general thoughts on the processors, Intel or AMD? I know AMD tends to be less expensive and from what I see it performs just as well.

$3000 was just a ballpark cap, would like to spend as little as possible and still get a top of the line machine. There are lots of other expences at school ;)

How much cheaper is building your own computer compared to buying a dell or alienware or something? I would definately like to build my own at somepoint, however if the savings are marginal I would probably just order a computer and build one at some other point, building one seems like a fairly large time commitment. I know the major companies get major discounts for buying in bulk. I will sit down tonite or tommorow and customize a computer at dell.com, then go to newegg.com and see how much I would spend there.

Anyways the big questions I still have are Intel vs. AMD, ATI vs Nvidia, motherboard, and a good (preferably nice looking) case.

Lastly, sorry for being an Idiot, but I was looking around on Nvidias web page and saw the Nforce 2, claiming that with a nice Geforce card it would make an awsome gaming machine. Is the Nforce 2 a processor like Intel and AMD.

-Cash

[herosrest]

I'll leave your Nforce 2 question for those with experience of the mobo - l can't decide an answer on it yet.

I suggest that before u get to deeply into the peripherals, u should research Mobo makers and AMD\Intel chipsets and progress from there.

It helps enormously. Really. :D

[BipolarBill]

Some general advice:

Figure out what is the best and get the next model down. You can save a lot of bux that way. Always check the price spread on the top two models of anything.

The one thing that you may not want to compromise on is the video card. All others can be in the 90th percentile. ;)

[Greg Harper]

Tell him BpB. You can build alot better unit for less cash than you can ever buy.:)

[Yoshi]

with $3000 and since you building in Sep, Athlon 64.

And no the Nforce 2 is not a processor, it is a chipset which runs AMD processors. It is built onto motherboards

[dajogejr]

I would agree with MJC, with the exception of two things:
AMD Barton 2500+. It runs great stock, overclocks fantastic (if you're into that) and very...very cheap.

Looks like about 260 US $ for the 3000 (newegg.com) and only 87 US$ for the 2500.

Spend that extra money and get either the Radeon 9800 Pro or GeForce FX5900. I'd lean ATI's way...but either will be fine.

Oh, and 1 GB of PC3200 memory is more than enough...get two sticks of 512, and place them in the according slots of the Mobo (for dual channel, either 1 and 3 or 2 and 3) to take advantage of the extra bandwith...

The Raptor Hard Drive form Western Digital sure is nice, and fast...but you're paying good money for only 36 GB of storage. 3G's is a lot to spend on a system, you could probably build a great system for about half that.

You didn't mention if you are going to be able to salvage any parts from an old PC, i.e. hard drives, CD ROMs, etc. Cost saver there, too.

OH, and welcome to SysOpts...

[MJCfromCT]

i agree that a 2500+ and 1 gig of ram is more than enough...i guess i was posting a wish list of what i'd want in a machine lol, but yes a 2500+ and 1 gig of ram is plenty :)

[dajogejr]

aww...heck, If we're posting wish lists...

I'll take the first two or three 64 bit AMD CPUs off the line...

And the Asus that will support it...

Throw in the ATI Radeon 10000 (although...they may rename it...10000 is a little hard to fit on the box...:)

[tking]

Not to thread hijack or anything (but it seems a bit aimless so I will anyway) ... what would you run on your new 64 bit AMD cpus? 32 bit OSs and a bunch of 32 bit apps?

My understanding was that a 64 bit system running 32 bit apps actually takes a performance hit and doesn't do as well as a comparible 32 bit machine that is inherently optimized for it.

Is this true or have I been reading the wrong stuff?

[cmclaugh]

I really don't have a whole lot of parts to salvage, right now I use a laptop thats really just ment for word processing, email, and internet. I have a microsoft explorer mouse, I may or may not have a decent keyboard kicking around, but thats about it. I am probably buying a new monitor, I have a few old ones I could take, but they arent very nice. I will probably get a 17-19in flat panel. Oh yea, and I plan on using the sony speakers I bought for my laptop, and also hook up to my Panasonic stero system so I won't be buying new speakers.

So far I plan on going with a AMD processor, I may hold out for the new 64bit one...any ideas on what it will cost? I don't want to delay a month to find out it costs $1000 bucks or something like that. I couldnt find any figures on projected cost. Will the 64bit processor even add to a machines performance ... even without a 64bit OS?

Will probably get an Asus A7N8X Nforce2 400ultra chipset, and an ATI Radeon video card (most people here seem to favor ATI over Nvidia). How much of a difference is the 9800 from the 9800pro? Or either of those chips over the slightly older model. The prices seem to jump alot from the 96/9700 to the 9800 models. Also, what is the 'all in wonder' models?

Looking at around 1gb pc3200 ram. Might throw in a third 512 stick. Any suggestions for a nice, good looking case? I would like a plexiglass window, doubt I will put in any flashing lights, but I would like to see the guts. Audigy 2 Sound Card. DVD +-R +-RW/CD-R CD-RW burner, with a second DVD drive.

I can't wait to start ordering the parts. I am pretty confident I can put it together alright, but I have no clue what to do with software. I have a copy of Windows XP Pro I can use, and office XP, but I have never booted a machine with 0 software installed. I would think I need some sort of boot disc, but no idea (turning it on for the first time will just bring me into the BIOS right?). Atleast my desktop wont be cluttered with real audio and AOL free trial offers when I boot up for the first time, unlike with a dell :)

-Cash

[dajogejr]

Not sure what you've been reading...but there is a 32 bit and a 64 bit windows XP.

but...as far as apps...not sure what would happen...

[dajogejr]

First things first...I wouldn't wait for the 64 bit, especially for school.
NO idea how stable or compatible they'll be, and I'd hate to be doing a term paper, etc. just to have it crash.

Second...ATI cards. And I'm gathering this from pretty much what I've read here. (I have a 8 month old Ge Force 4 Ti 4200 w/ 128MB DDR) Works for now...till that ATI drops a bit.

9500 was a good card, 9600 was sort of a dudd. 9700 Pro is about all you'll probably ever need for quite some time. But, if you're the "gotta have the latest and greatest" type, 9800 Pro. There is no other, especially a 256MB DDR version. You'll pay dearly for it. I would say on a student budget, find a built by ATI Radeon 9700 Pro, and you'll live happily ever after.

I'd save the extra 100 bucks or so for that 3rd stick of RAM, and invest it in that flat panel, a 17 or 19 are pricey!!

The rest will be a learning experience, but you'll be happy you did.
For a bare hard drive...you just set the BIOS to boot off the XP Pro CD. (On an Asus, once you see the splash screen, press the delete key several times. It'll go into BIOS)
It'll go through all the motions, just PAY ATTENTION to all the questions and prompts.

I like my partitions formatted with NTFS, most around here would probably say FAT32. You pick your own there!

If you're going to get a DVD and CD Burner...save a few bucks, and for the second optical drive, just get a fast CD ROM.

Good luck...you'll learn more building your own...and you'll appreciate it much more too.

[BipolarBill]

Originally posted by cmclaugh
I have never booted a machine with 0 software installed. I would think I need some sort of boot disc, but no idea (turning it on for the first time will just bring me into the BIOS right?).Just go into BIOS, set the CDROM for the second boot device and boot from the XP CD. You'll know what to do!

[cmclaugh]

I'm still trying to figure out what ati's 'all in wonder' packages are. The cheapest I can find a 9800 pro is 299.99, at best buy (shouldnt that be more expensive then newegg.com and other online dealers?) ... the 9700 all in wonder is 399.99 at best buy, whats with the price difference?

Also, how do AMD product titles compare to Intels product titles? My understanding is that a p4 3.2gzh 800fsb is comprable to the Athlon XP 3200. Even though the athlon 3200 says 2.2gzh, and 400fsb, are they roughly the same? Except the p4 lists as $192 *EDIT* *more * at newegg?

Thanks for all the help guys

[BipolarBill]

The All in Wonder includes all sorts of video features that you may not want or need including TV, a DVD player application, video-in and video editing software. It even has a remote control! That stuff ain't free. You probably don't need it.

AMD is pretty much the same as Intel all around.

[genesound]

Hmmm, if you're going to school to play games then fine.

If it was me, knowing what I know now (just turned 50), I'd spend $2k on a good laptop, and build a decent game 'puter with the leftovers. Get a good education now, retire early and play games later. :t

[tking]

Genesound,

You're a wise old man of the mountain... but the truth you speak sounds like static to young ears! ;)

A good laptop for school and a nice AMD Nforce system to goof around with occassionally.

Now *thats* some good advice for students.

[Greg Harper]

My God Genesound, I didn't know people lived that long in Texas.:D

[genesound]

OMG, i look around, they're droppin like flies :D

Good fossil record, though :eek: :t

[genesound]

Originally posted by tking
...A good laptop for school and a nice AMD Nforce system to goof around with occassionally...Now *thats* some good advice for students. Yeah, well I guess we all like to recommend our pet systems, it's basically what I have :D

[tasty danish]

cmclaugh, im in the process of building a new comp just like what you are wanting to do, i personally am on the intel side of the fence (no flaming please!:x ) and i just wanted to share with you what i have gathered.
i personally would go with an intel 2.4c processor: these overclock the best. make sure you go with the c version (aka 800fsb) as these have... an 800fsb and hyperthreading and overclock just as high as a 3.06 (3.5ghz on stock volt/ cooling) and they cost $150 as opposed to $300.
mate that sucker to either an asus p4p800 delux or p4c800.
with that much money to spend, i would get a radeon 9800 256mb gpu (ebay has em for 300-350)
with fsb speeds that high on your processor you need some faster ram than pc3200. you will hear alot of opinons on this, i personally am going with ocz el ddr466 (pc3700).
get a zalman cnps7000 fan for that cpu.
i am getting a superalien x case (500w psu, pre-modded case, 6 80mm case fans: $150)
for harddrives i would go with the 36gb 10k-rpm western digital harddrive, maybe 2 if you need it.
price watch has great prices on optical drives: get this: a 54/32/54cdrw drive for $43 and a 48/16dvd drive for $30.
as far as the monitor goes i would get a sony trinitron flatscreen 24" GDM-W900 crt (yes its a $1500 monitor, but if you play your cards staight on ebay you can find one for 500 or less). it'll definately keep up with all your games but its a crt so it's huge. if you need an lcd for space reasons, get at least a 19" or maybe with your budget a 21". ebay is the key for monitors as you can get them easily for 1/3 of the price in a store.

using ebay and pricewatch i am building this system for under $2000. good luck.

[Yoshi]

The ATI 9700 Alll In Wonder for 400, you can find an ATI 9800 all in wonder for 385

[genesound]

(no flaming please!:x )No flames for intels here! Still say a serious student needs a really good laptop, though :t

[tasty danish]

need a decent laptop for school??? im trying to sell a dell latitude cpx. anyone interested contact me.

[genesound]

No offence, but I'm thinkin sumpin more like a 2GHz Toshiba that will be viable for several years ;)

[tasty danish]

yeah but mines under 500 bucks.... and shut up!!! i need to get rid of it!:p

[genesound]

I don't blame ya for that one, but a student just starting out prolly has more money now than in a couple o' years. :p

I just love my toshiba 1.7GHz, wishin I could afford the new one, but that's gonna have to wait another year ;)

[genesound]

Originally posted by tasty danish
yeah but mines under 500 bucks.... and shut up!!! i need to get rid of it!:p Hey, what are the specs? Gotta link?

edit - Link (http://www.sysopt.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&postid=955125#post955125) :cool:

Looks ok, good luck dude!

[tasty danish]

go to user to user selling forum (dont wanna post in the wrong;) )
its the thread called 500mhz laptop. it aint bad for an old piece, played counterstrike pretty well at 800/600 (could do better with some more memory).

http://www.sysopt.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=143857

[Yoshi]

Ok here is a good site for laptops Mtech.com

I agree, a student will be better off with a laptop then a desktop.

[tking]

Originally posted by genesound
I just love my toshiba 1.7GHz, wishin I could afford the new one

I DREAM of having a 1.7Ghz Toshi! My trusty old Toshi (a P2-366) is packed with all the memory it can handle and still runs like a dream, but I'd love a new one!

I suspect our "student" has access to a great deal of capital at the moment (a $3000 DYI comp?!?!?). Everyone went with the DYI thing because this is Sysopt, but once you're in school and money's tight, wouldn't a warranty be better than a couple of more frames per second?

I'm thinking buy a decent system from a reputable builder, get the longest warranty you can get your mits on and stay away from the leading edge unless you can really afford it (and continue to afford it).

The last thing you want is smoke coming out of some overclocked Frankenmachine at 2am when you've got a paper worth 50% of your final mark due in seven hours...

... and get a nice Toshi laptop, they'll never let you down!

[Greg Harper]

All right, that's enough. You know what's wrong with you tking------you're suffering from---

A SEVERE ATTACK OF COMMON SENSE !!!!!!

No room for that here so stop it.

Just had to throw that in. I'm in total agreement. Looks like there are those here who are putting offspring through school.:D

[tking]

Originally posted by Greg Harper
Looks like there are those here who are putting offspring through school.:D

I sense you never enjoyed the boon of a pre-paid education.

I too share your disgruntled, I had to put my own **** @$$ through school and I never got to buy no dream system point of view!

...but I wish I didn't!!!

[genesound]

I DREAM of having a 1.7Ghz Toshi! My trusty old Toshi (a P2-366) is packed with all the memory it can handle and still runs like a dream, but I'd love a new one! I could actually use another one. Yes, this thing is awesome :D You know what's wrong with you tking------you're suffering from--- A SEVERE ATTACK OF COMMON SENSE !!!!!! LOL :D I too share your disgruntled, I had to put my own **** @$$ through school and I never got to buy no dream system point of view! Aint it the truth :t

[cmclaugh]

I am definately not going for a new laptop. I know a lot of people say to go with a laptop over a desktop for school...for me, it was completely worthless. I plugged my laptop in like a desktop, and don't think I ever took it out of its place until I came home from school.

I will have two computers after building the new one, since I have no plans on what to do with this one here. I will probably sell it if I can find a buyer. No need to have 2 comps, if my new one can run top end games, something tells me it should be ok with microsoft word.

Heres what I use now: Gateway Solo...

-Intel Celeron 1200mzh
-382MB Ram (came with 128)
-Intel 300M Graphics Controler .. Intel 82830M chip (no clue what kind of graphics card this is. I know it sucks though)
-ESS Allegro sound card
Thats all I know

It will boot up most of my games, but I can't play them with the lag/choppyness...plus I cant stand playing 800/600. I don't even play games all that much, maybe 4-5 hours a week, but I like to be able to. This last year I didn't play anything because of my computer, and I prefer computer games over watching TV. I know there are games I can play on this comp, howerver I prefer online games (which tend to be very PC demanding) mostly to keep in touch with a few of my old friends that also play.

I worked alot all summer, and have enough to buy a nice machine to take me through my next 3 years. I know after I graduate I wont have anything to put towards a new machine. I am pretty smart with my money, I dont buy alot of small stuff, and even after buying a comp I will have more then enough to get me through the expenses of the year.

Definately going for a new one this year :t

[cmclaugh]

Ok, heres what I have so far...

Motherboard:
Asus A7N8X nforce2 -- $119.99 Newegg

Processor:
AMD Athlon XP 2800, 3000, or 3200 -- $177.00, $262.00, or $454.00 respectively at Newegg

Graphics Card:
ATI Radeon 9800 Pro 128MB -- $364.00 Newegg

Sound Card:
Creative Labs Sound Blaster Audigy 2 Platnium -- $167.00 Newegg

Case:
Thermaltake Xaser III V2420A ATX -- $275.00 Accupc
Thermaltake Xaser III V2000A ATX -- $175.00 Accupc

Memory 3 sticks of...:
OCZ 512 PC3200 -- Accupc $116.00
OCZ 512 PC3500 -- Accupc $149.00
Corsair 512 PC3200 -- Accupc $128.18
Corsair 512 PC3500 -- Accupc $175.00

Now I need a few suggestions.

-For the extreme price differences in the three processors I listed how much of a difference is there? Right now I am leaning towards the 3000.

-The only Radeon 9800 pro 256MB I could find was in an all in wonder package, does anyone a retailer with the regular retail version? (By the way, everything I will be getting will be retail, not OEM)

-The only difference between the two Xaser III models listed, as far as I could tell, is that the 2420 had a 420watt powersource included. Would it be cheaper to get the model without the powersource and install my own (is it difficult?). Also, I think the fans are included with this (correct?) will any additional cooling be needed? This is my favorite so far, but open to suggestions on other towers.

-The memory was just a quick look at ram prices. I couldnt find any PC3700. Any opinions on the different manufactuers, or on how much difference there is between the PC3200, PC3500, and PC370?

-I am getting all retail versions of the equipment listed, will there be any mounts or cables I will need to purchase seperately?

-I have a microsoft explorer optical mouse, looking at a logitech wireless keyboard, I see most people review them highly.

-Any reason I need a modem, at school I just use ethernet, havent dialed up to anything in 3 years.

-All I need for cable,T1,etc. would be a network card, (correct?), any suggestions on network cards?

-Still on the fence between a CRT and LCD monitor. Any favorites?

-My speaker situation is all set.

-I am definately putting in a DVD player and CD-R CD-RW. I have seen that Plextor usualy gets good reviews. I may replace the CD-R CD-RW with an all format DVD/CD burner. I have never used Plextor but have heard it is good. Any suggestions?

-What will I need to do to have a USB2.0 and Firewire connestions. Is all part of the motherboard?

-I think I will get an OEM version of Windows XP Pro, $133.00 seems pretty good at accupc.


Am I overlooking any other components? I would like to have every piece planned before I start ordering. I know I will spend $100-$200 on little things, but I don't want to overlook anything big.

With whats listed above I am between $1450 (cheapest processor and cheapest ram) and $1900 (best processor and most expensive ram)


Thanks

[tasty danish]

dude!!! look on pricewatch.com!!! and ebay.com. you can find radeon 9800's and pc3700ram out the wazoo. also, the processor seems a little expensive. the pentium 2.4c on pricewatch is 160. and the asus mobo to fit that on is 120. you can get even cheaper on ebay. and about the soundcard: do you do alot of professional music type stuff? otherwise i cannot justify spending that much on a soundcard when you can get a soundblaster audigy for 60.

[BipolarBill]

cmclaugh - do you really think that anyone will read all of that and respond to each question? Limit your questions to 2 or less and number them.

I don't know where you're shopping, but it's expensive and they don't have much. Try Newegg.com.

If you think that installing a power supply is hard, you need to do more research on your own and save space on the forums. All of this info is out there. Use Google.

[tking]

Originally posted by BipolarBill
cmclaugh - do you really think that anyone will read all of that

You know how it is Bill, some people just like ITIMIZING things, you know? Making lists? It's fun (for some people)...

CM, if you're getting an A7N8X, get the deluxe one, it comes with...

Dual LAN : Integrated 3Com® and NVIDIA® LAN controllers

More than you'll ever need as far as networking goes.

If you're determined to go the all-the-eggs-in-one-basket route and build only one super machine (I'd build two 90th percentile machines and get myself a KVM switch personally, I'm a fan of redundency), I'd suggest getting a switchable hard drive bay and a couple of hard drives, so you can switch easily in case of problems. Like I said, I'm a fan of redundency.

I guess what Genesound, myself and others are commenting on is that you're making this sound like a toy rather than a tool. If it's a toy you're going the right route, if it's a mission critical tool that will get you through school, then a rethink might be in order.

Whatever you get, I'm sure it'll blow your socks off and you'll have a great time playing with it.

[BipolarBill]

PC3700:

[cmclaugh]

I apologize for asking so many questions, that was a long list. I just have 0 experience building my own computer and have tons of questions. Ill cut down, sorry.

[shurka]

I've read by accident this topic and want to make some notes.
1) about CPU - the price on Barton 3200 is so big because this is a top model. It has very little difference from 3000. Take OEM model and good CPU cooler (like Thermaltake Volcano 7+...11)
2) It's better not to use old powersource. Newer CPU's require 300+ Wt power.
3) All mounts/cables must come with motherboard (Retail) and case.
4) If network card isn't integrated into motherboard, take 3COM 905B-TX.
5) Plextor is the best. I like TEAC too.
6) USB 2.0 is on the motherboard. Firewire can be found on Audigy

[Greg Harper]

Be wary of anything you buy off of ebay. There are some good deals there but you need to check an double check the source to make sure you get what you order and not a knock off with no warrenty.
There are better prices on alot of the stuff you mentioned so look around. The link BpB gave is a good start and pricewatch and pricegrabber.com also have many good reliable sources.
Take your time and have fun.
:D

[dajogejr]

I guess I'm very confused...

On one hand, you'd like to build a 3000 dollar dream system, but in the next breath...you want to save money (which we all can very easily appreciate!)

I think you can easily save money in two arenas (at least)

CPU...don't spend the extra money on the upper end Barton CPUs, when a 2500+ will do just fine for about half the money of the next step up...the 2800.

Second...I'm not sure why you seem to be stuck on 3 sticks of 512MB RAM.

2X512 will be more than enough...PC3200 or better if you like.

1GB of RAM paired with that 9800 Pro will run just about anything you can throw at it...and then some.

Don't get me wrong...if you were hell bent on just blowing money...go for it...but, I can appreciate wanting to save money and not going way overboard... That board, great choice by the way, will support more RAM and a faster processor...don't think you will need it, nor will it be cost effective. You can always buy more stuff...though.

Oh, and if you want top quality and little worries, stay away from Ebay..stick with NewEgg or Google gear...

And stick to at least a 350W PSU..400 would be better. That 9800 sucks a lot of juice...as will that case with all the fans.

the A7N8X Deluxe has dual onboard LAN, and firewire support via a PCI filler...no need for extra stuff. That mobo has everything but the kitchen sink in the retail box.

Part of building your first PC from scratch is cost effectiveness versus performance...by going with the 90% rule (sometimes just a bit lower) you will realize that the somtimes 2 or 3 steps below the fastest and best is really enough...especially when the top of the line drops in price so quickly...


Sorry bout the long winded post...(but after that laundry list...had to
;) ;) ;)