I'm thinking of upgrading my current system (ASUS A7V133/Athlon 1Ghz) and have settled on the Athlon XP 2500 based on the price point ($134CDN). After reading the articles/benchmarks i'm looking to get some opinions from users.
I'm thinking of staying with the VIA chipset (KT600) as i've heard that there are some issues with the nForce boards - feel free to confirm/deny this tho and offer any recommendations.
I should note that i've used ASUS exclusively over the years (back to my P55T2P4), but i'm open to switching. :)
If anythign VIA chipsets are much more problematic than any other doign the rounds, and as for the nforce 2, though i have been told there are issues, ive never come across any in almost six months of usage.
Thats not to say i dont liek VIA, actually im quite a fan, but when i last checked on the KT600, there wasnt much to impress me
--Jakk:t
causticVapor
08-16-2003, 01:23 AM
VIA - I must admit I haven't had much of a problem with them. Perhaps that's because the boards I dealt with were based on their better chipsets, i.e. the Pro133A, KT266/A, KT133A/266A/333/400. The only one that gave me issues was a Tyan trinity board based on the older Apollo pro chipset. The newer DFI based on the 694x was actually a good performer and I was able to get it running at 166 FSB - no voltage options, but the 733 Cumine didn't seem to have a problem running at 914. I had to bump down the SDRAM speed to HCLK-33 as it wasn't PC166.. but oh well, worked well enough.
By far my best experience with a VIA-based board is with the 8KHA+ based on the KT266/A. Very high memory performance, very good overclockability and almost all hardware-IDE anomalies fixed. While the IDE controller isn't nearly as good as the one on my nForce2, it has a commanding lead over the ones in previous VIA-based boards I had dealt with. Only a few problems though - it doesn't like high PCI bus speeds (above 36MHz). Performance starts to lag around that speed and stuttering becomes very apparent around FSB 160. Whether this is a problem with my particular board or not is up in the air.
All I can say is that it has been up to FSB 195 with no stability problems whatsoever. A low-wattage PSU eventually caused an AGP power trace to burn and the 5v connections in the ATX socket to burn up, but that has been fixed. It looks like a bomb has detonated in there, but still works. I'll post a pic for you all to see - MASSIVE wire rerouting across the board (no pun intented.) And to think, I'm typing this on that board/PSU right now.
Anyway, back to the topic, what about the KT600? Well, there honestly is nothing wrong with it. I find the KT400/KT400A's lack of 200 FSB support somewhat misleading, but that's another story. You see, the real problem is that the KT600, much like the KT333 and KT400/A, is really just an overclocked KT266/A with a few buffers and performance enhancements added here and there, minor modifications dubbed 'faststream64.' I'm all for architectural ramping, but a two-year-old essentially-unchanged chipset design is going to have a hard time competing with a brand-new dual-channel design with twice its theoretical bandwidth and a highly revolutionary branch predictor to boot.
It shows up everywhere - the KT600 northbridge on average can only be clocked to 210, performance is on par with a (god forbid) KT266/A massively overclocked to that level. I know because others have brought KT266a mainboards to that speed, with stratospheric AGP/PCI speeds to boot.
Also, the KT600 still lives with dividers, another sign of being an (I hesitate to say) 'evolved' KT266/A. Almost every single major desktop chipset today offers an AGP/PCI lock; the KT600 does not.
Now for the nForce2. Locked (controllable) AGP, locked PCI, HT interconnect between Northbridge/Southbridge, superior IDE performance, FSB speeds up to 250 on the Ultra400, etc. Superior soundstorm audio while the KT600 lives with the legacy codec. Advanced branch prediction in the northbridge and 2x the theoretical memory bandwidth.
There's only one advantage the KT600 holds over the nForce2: Power consumption and heat. But that is easily remediable (several guides on the web.)
That being said, go with what you think is best, KT600 or nForce2 Ultra 400. The single channel nForce2 400 is looking to be a good buy as well.
Take your pick. ;)
Someone Stupid
08-16-2003, 02:38 AM
The two boards I've seen reviewed weren't for overclocking if that is your goal, the gigabyte and an EPoX. They had the features pretty much, but VIA couldn't realy support it as well as an nforce2 chipset, be it dual channel or SPP. Can't say on the Asus or MSI one's though as I haven't read a review on it. I personally don't like gigabyte's as they come with problems for their price fairly often. So if you do go VIA (I wouldn't), the Asus or MSI would be the one I'd get, but I'd rather an nforce2 by EPoX for sheer overclocking or Asus if you are dying to have SATA and still have some decent overclockability.
uberbunny
08-17-2003, 12:24 AM
I realize that this Mob is not on your list, but I just put together an Athlon XP 2500 (Barton core) with ASUS A7N8X Deluxe Mob and it seems to be rock solid stable. Bear in mind that I did put in quality memory (there evidently have been some issues with memory and this Mob). Price of Mob was about $136 U.S. To give you a better picture I did use a Serail ATA Hd too, but all is well so far. You can also go with the non Deluxe version if you do not want the extras that the Deluxe offers. But so far am more than pleased with the way things are running. To put it in perspective ...so far it ROCKS! Also bear in mind I did not buy this Mob with over clocking in mind, so cannot speak to this part of the board. Hope this helps, and good luck. It is always nice to upgrade to newer and better things. Good luck. :rolleyes:
Bigjakkstaffa
08-17-2003, 12:36 PM
The a7n8x deluxe is okay if you want a feature packed (but sometimes problematic) board with decent/good overclockign capabilities... the Epox however is top of the o/c hill, sime simply awsome FSB's coming out of the v2.0 boards...250Mhz FSB anyone?
--Jakk:t
$1500-P4 gamer
08-18-2003, 12:43 PM
BUT with its ability to unlock multi-s who needs 250fsb? Not me. Look at 2500+. Its hitting 12.5*200=2500mhz with plain 'ole 200fsb. Dont really need higher now cause the cpu will top out way before the mobo will! Unlock the multi-s completely (high sets) and you got nothing holding ya back. And it didnt push your mem either.:t
causticVapor
08-18-2003, 01:28 PM
For Tbreds, FSB's over 200 really help when you start hitting 2.4GHz+.
For Bartons, less so, but it's still a factor.
missiveusa
08-18-2003, 01:32 PM
If you decide on the Asus A7N8X, which is an excellent board, pay the extra $25 and get the Deluxe model if only for the Soundstorm audio. The SATA support might come in handy, too, but the higher price is well worth the sound upgrade alone. A Creative SB Live! will run you $33 alone @ Newegg.
Bigjakkstaffa
08-18-2003, 01:54 PM
Its hitting 12.5*200=2500mhz
10x250=2500Mhz would be nicer though ;)
Yeah, definitley get the Deluxe, not the plain jane version
--Jakk:t
rsfnatik
08-18-2003, 03:34 PM
Wow, this is a great discussion so far. Initially, I was leaning towards the KT600 because i've been using VIA chipsets for so long now, but like I said, i'm open to alternatives. I'm going to do some research into the nForce2 and see what I come up with.
I would like to reiterate that I am *not* interested in how well a board will overclock, i'm more concerned about stability/performance at stock speeds and feature sets.
Caustic: You've made some good points about the architechural differences of the nForce2 over the KT600. You mention that the KT600 is essentially a *tweaked* version of an older chipset and this has been echoed in other reviews/articles i've read. The idea of going with something a little more innovative is appealing.
As I can see the Deluxe offers the dual-channel memory over the other two boards. Onboard peripherals are not much of a concern.
Bigjakkstaffa
08-18-2003, 03:46 PM
If your not overclocking then the A7n8x Deluxe is pretty much the best Nf2 board you can go for
--Jakk:t
causticVapor
08-19-2003, 05:16 PM
A7N8X Deluxe. Make sure it's the 'FSB 400 edition.' Even if you're not overclocking, it'll be good if you want to upgrade to a 400 FSB CPU down the road.
dafanman
08-19-2003, 07:13 PM
Let me stir the pot here,
For stability and mild to moderate overclocking, my reccomendation is the gigbtye 7n400pro, 200 fsb rock stable, extra ide connections, dual bios, sata, soundstorm.
Bigjakkstaffa
08-19-2003, 07:22 PM
Gigabyte...ick, anyways the Epox 8rda+ is quite a lot cheaper, overclocks like no-ones business, soundstorm audio and is as stable as a shed full of horses. Admittedly it lacks SATA but IMO thats no great loss.
As for Ggabyte boards in general, well, i wouldnt buy one
--Jakk:t
rsfnatik
08-20-2003, 12:54 PM
I've been doing some reading and i'm starting to like the sounds of the nForce2 Ultra 400. I'm looking at either the ASUS A7N8X Deluxe ($183)/non-Deluxe ($139). The regular version still uses the Ultra 400 but lacks SATA/dual ethernet/firewire/soundstorm. I'll have to decide if that extra stuff is worth the extra $50.
I'm trying to keep the upgrade under/around $400 after tax... the following puts me over by the exact difference between the Deluxe and non-Deluxe versions of the A7N8X.
I don't know where you found those prices, but they're way too high for the mainboard and cpu. I assume we're talking $US. Have a look at newegg (http://www.newegg.com/app/catalog.asp) for better prices and no sales tax.
rsfnatik
08-21-2003, 03:15 PM
It's at the beginning of the thread... prices are Canadian. :)
spyman
08-21-2003, 08:46 PM
I too have been ichin' for an upgrade and looking in the same direction as you.
I have been looking at the asus A7N8X-X for $115can, A7N8X for $139can or the MSI K7N2-Delta-L for $117can. I don't really care about dual lan or sata or firewire or any other bell and whistles, I just want a board that will last a couple of years before I need to change it. I game and I surf. My pc is just a really expensive ps2 with better graphics and a type writer built in.
I just want my upgrade before HL2 comes out so0 I can experience it the way the developers intended to be seen!
BUT the question of the day "Is this the time to be upgrading?" I heard that the new amd cpu won't work on current motherboards????Any truth to this? Will they be uping the fsp to intel speeds??
Bigjakkstaffa
08-22-2003, 06:18 AM
I just want my upgrade before HL2 comes out so0 I can experience it the way the developers intended to be seen!
In that case you'll want to be gettign a Radeon 9800 Pro in addition to new CPU+Mobo. Also, if you bear in mind that hL is only one-two months away, and your upgrading specifically for it, then now is the time to upgrade.
However for a more overall picture it would be an idea for you to post your system specs here so we can mull it over
--Jakk:t
rsfnatik
08-22-2003, 10:38 AM
spyman: I would suggest going with the ASUS A7N8X Deluxe if you've got the cash or the non-Deluxe version if you're on a budget and don't really care for the extras (tho SATA and FireWire would be nice additions... i've already got NIC's coming out of the walls). While the -X and Delta-L are cheaper, the first is pretty stripped down (lacks the Ultra 400 chipset, etc...) and from the reviews i've read, the latter just falls behind. Feel free to read some reviews on these boards tho.
And do let us know what your current specs are?
Bigjakkstaffa
08-22-2003, 10:58 AM
If you cant afford the a7n8x deluxe or want extreme overclockability then get the Epox 8rda+ v2.0, overclocks like nobodys business, full of excellent onboard features including Soundstom Audio, Firewire, Onboard LAN etc (the only thing it lacks over the a7n8x deluxe is a second LAN header and SATA - which IMO is no great loss) and can be had at a relativley cheap price, $85 i think it was last i looked on an american site
--Jakk:t
gtaylor
08-22-2003, 12:06 PM
dafanman, do you have the GA-7N400Pro? I have been trying to find a few reviews on it but havn't found many, the best being overclockers.nz. Features and sound wise, whadda ya reckon. Despite what the general concensus here is, I am a huge fan of Gigabyte mobo's and I hate the Epox ones. Having gradually replaced the entire network at work with computers built by me, the only ones I have had problems with, and still do, are the 2 epox based computers. I also never get a response from epox tech support when I e-mail them. The gigabyte based computers have been rock solid, stable and problem free out of the box.
Therefore I am really seriously thinking about going for the GA-7N400 Pro, as it's supposed to be really good if you don't O/C, which I won't.
ConfusedAlien
08-22-2003, 01:58 PM
arent the kt600 chipset SLOWER than the nf2 ultras?
im pretty sure...read that at anandtech sometime...:confused: lol
dafanman
08-22-2003, 02:55 PM
gtaylor
Hello, here is my personal take on the 7n400pro.
When I started looking at the nforce2 platform, everything about it demonstrated that it was the best price to value ratio.
I was looking for a nforce2 board to run with my xp1700dut3c, and while I have done some overclocking, im not into having a higher fsb and faster mhz than the next guy, nor do I stress over 3dmark, prime,seti,ut benchmarks, ect... To that end I did want the ability to gain a fatter pipeline out of the board by raising fsb.
I started with the chaintech 7njs, great board when you didnt have to do anything in the bios, suffices to say 3 rma's later it was time for a change.
MY Ideal Board(for my specific purposes)
Nforce2 ultra 400 chipset
The ability to add more Ide storage drives=7n400pro
Beacuse its a nforce2 chipset/bios= gigabytes dual bios
On board audio=soundstorm, no complaints at all
On board nic= never a problem
'The only board offering these features at the time were the gigabyte and dfi lan party
The bonus of this board, for all the reviewers that claimed it would not be a good overclocker, they were Wrong, just yesterday someone at amdmb.com gigabyte forums posted scrns of 225fsb, and to the hardcore overclockers out there that may not be much, but I think its reasonable.
I just updated bios yesterday and can now run this xp1700 @2.3ghz, however I wont , I will continue to run at 200fsb, rock solid stable all day long.
So if youre not intending on overclocking and want an absolutely stable board, I could reccommend this one to you.
Sorry for such a long post, just trying to give you as much info as possible.
I will end by saying that this board has never given me a moments trouble, and if I had to purchase another mb today, I would again get the 7n400 pro.
Right now all I can afford to upgrade is my motherboard, ram, and cpu, with a video card upgrade in the near future. I have $400 canadian saved up to play with. The only online canadian sites I've found to use are www.kingstoncomputerplanet.com, or
www.canadacomputers.com(these 2 are local to me so I'd like to get from them, makes returns much easier) or www.ncix.com, which is on the west coast but I have used them in the past(got my video card and burner from them).
wow 1 more post makes 100
spyman
08-23-2003, 12:28 PM
I don't know why those urls aren't showing up right I try to edit it but anyways they are www.kingstoncomputerplanet.com
www.canadacomputers.com
gtaylor
08-26-2003, 04:58 AM
Cheers dafanman, just the info I was looking for.
Beeblequix
08-26-2003, 11:56 AM
HERE'S (http://www.vr-zone.com/reviews/VIA/KT600/) a good KT600 roundup. Notice the shamingly poor performance of the Asus offering, and the impressive SOYO and MSI boards.
ß
dafanman
08-26-2003, 12:25 PM
gtaylor
You should head over to amdmb.com and nforcershq.com and check out their gigabyte sections. Lotta good info there;)
$1500-P4 gamer
08-26-2003, 03:09 PM
"MY Ideal Board(for my specific purposes)
MY Ideal Board(for my specific purposes)
Nforce2 ultra 400 chipset
The ability to add more Ide storage drives=7n400pro
Beacuse its a nforce2 chipset/bios= gigabytes dual bios
On board audio=soundstorm, no complaints at all
On board nic= never a problem
'The only board offering these features at the time were the gigabyte and dfi lan party"
Nforce2 ultra 400 chipset
A7n8x Deluxe rev. 2.0 has this
The ability to add more Ide storage drives
A7N8X deluxe has two IDE-two SATA raid which run IDE aswell
Thats 4 IDE ch. if wanted= This is the max your gonna find......
Beacuse its a nforce2 chipset/bios= gigabytes dual bios
To quote BPB (hope he dont mind) how are two bad bios's better than one bad one? End quote. Sides the Asus is socketed bios chip. THey are $10 to replace-shipped us and canada. I have link to replacment bios site if you are that worried. They pop out and right back in just like that and no RMA needed! LOL. My deluxe aint dumped the bios once. If giga**** needs two that should tell ya somthing. :rolleyes: DFI I hate-they are the most plain boards you'll fins in my past experience. If they have ANY real features now its due to nf2 having them already there. They arent known for having much bios options and extras thats why I say that. Mine was as bare as a Intel stock mobo when it came to bios settings-not even fsb adjustments!!! Im sure the NF2 has them but again-only cause somone spoon fed them the features. Needless to say they are NOT enthusiest mainboards but more of stable OEM build boards.
On board audio=soundstorm, no complaints at all
Yep-asus deluxe has it too.
On board nic= never a problem
Asus yet again has it-x2 LOL. Duel ethernet with Firewire ethernet too and they all can be bridged for some killer networking power if you need it.
O.K. so that is the only mobo with all the features you wanted huh. did you look hard. J/K!
:t
$1500-P4 gamer
08-26-2003, 03:12 PM
Heres yor safe duel bios feature. Dont help if its flashed too or just bad. And unlike asus and other real nf2 mobo's its not socketed I dont think. So bios chip cant just be replaced for $10!!!!! That is important to me. No soldered bios chips-no thanks. Not even if there is two of them!!!
betaexpert
"DMI problem.....
Hi all. I have a Gigabyte motherboard BX2000+. Several days before, I found a new BIOS (Version Fd) from their website. And then I downloaded it and reflashed by instruction. Everything went very smooth. But it stops when comes to 'Verifying DMI data pool......'. I have tried everything I can such as changed the boot sequence from C: to A:, but the FDD doesn't move anyway. I've tried to make a minimun sys of it (just PSU, motherboard, CPU, memory, FDD, graphic card, KB), but nothing changed. Also, I bought a new battery to replace it. but it just can not pass the 'Verifying' screen. This motherboad has a dual BIOS function, but unfortunately, the backup BIOS has been reflashed to the lastest version. That means I cannot change it back. These two BIOSs are fixed on board, it doesn't like the others which have a socket on board, that you can seperate them easily.
Any suggestions?
PS: P3 700, 512m, 20G HDD.
Thank you.
dafanman
08-26-2003, 11:23 PM
)-| you are really full of yourself arent ya,
Cant stand it when someone else makes a suggestion.
"The ability to add more Ide storage drives
A7N8X deluxe has two IDE-two SATA raid which run IDE aswell
Thats 4 IDE ch. if wanted= This is the max your gonna find......"
Get you facts straight, you look at the giga boards, count up how many ide device can run on it and tell me thats the max!
Sooo glad youve not experienced a corrupted bios, some of us have.
Seems to me that giga has been doing dual bios for awhile, a not specific to nforce2 chipsets!
What you never heard of clearing dmi when flashing?
Go take a bath, you bother me.:t
causticVapor
08-27-2003, 07:42 AM
The gigabyte boards tend to be OK when they do work, and horribly flawed when they don't. The problem with gigabyte is that most of their stuff is marketing fluff with no real merit or net advantage in use. Take all the devices they cram through a slow bus and the components they try to get away with using.
I remember hearing that their DPS was actually utilising nine underpowered MOSFETs that are just as powerful as six normal ones. Go figure. :rolleyes:
elroy
08-27-2003, 01:36 PM
From the articles I've read the KT600 memory performance is comparable to the nForce2 dual channel. While the KT600 only needs a single piece of ram. Also at this time the SATA doesn't provide a significant advantage over ATA133. SATA will be better in the future when the higher speeds come out but not yet.
MickMitani
08-28-2003, 01:24 AM
Just installed a Soltek KT-600RL an hour ago. So far so good. Cost me $78 shipped from Newegg. It boots a lot faster than my KT333 Biostar did (when it bothered to work at all). I'm looking to install a SATA drive in a few months now that the price difference to EIDE is smaller.
causticVapor
08-28-2003, 03:44 PM
Originally posted by elroy
From the articles I've read the KT600 memory performance is comparable to the nForce2 dual channel. While the KT600 only needs a single piece of ram. Also at this time the SATA doesn't provide a significant advantage over ATA133. SATA will be better in the future when the higher speeds come out but not yet.
It's a bit behind. Also, you don't have the locked AGP/PCI and free Audigy 2. The lattermost option should be reason enough alone to go for the nForce2. :cool:
$1500-P4 gamer
08-29-2003, 03:12 PM
Originally posted by dafanman
)-| you are really full of yourself arent ya,
Cant stand it when someone else makes a suggestion.
"The ability to add more Ide storage drives
A7N8X deluxe has two IDE-two SATA raid which run IDE aswell
Thats 4 IDE ch. if wanted= This is the max your gonna find......"
Get you facts straight, you look at the giga boards, count up how many ide device can run on it and tell me thats the max!
Sooo glad youve not experienced a corrupted bios, some of us have.
Seems to me that giga has been doing dual bios for awhile, a not specific to nforce2 chipsets!
What you never heard of clearing dmi when flashing?
Go take a bath, you bother me.:t
Listen here you -SOB. DOnt put words in my mouth. YOU were talking about NF2 and duel bios NOT ME BROTHER> secondly two corrupt bios aint better then one -you say I never had a bad bios. Who said! I just said on this mobo didnt I. Again READ) and dont put words in my mouth again! I have had bad bios. Thats how I know this. 1 socketed bios that can be replaced for a measily $10 is 10000000 times better than a board with two soldered that can be flashed by accident at the same time. Thus making it a $100 mistake not a $10 dollar one. You bother me. I been here longer-why dont you go away....:rolleyes: I dont care if you recomend the guy a tooth brush with a abocus on the handle! You make a statement then when one answers it you make it sound liek they were the on who brought up the subject. You argue with yourself often too?:mad:
"What you never heard of clearing dmi when flashing"
You terd. You should either set bios back to defaults or do the same by reseting cmos with the cmos jumper to clr-power off disconnected from wall. Or remove batt. You dont have to **** with DMI terminologoy cause your reseting the ENTIRE BIOS not just the DMI. That (DMI) will update and change with even one change in bios-but bios isnt at defaults now is it...... Dont try to act smarter than me. Your just making a heel of yourslef doing so. I know much more then you think I do. I can tell ya that.)-|
dafanman
08-29-2003, 03:47 PM
First things first
I dont care how long youv'e been here, or what you know, your'e nobody to me!
I dont care if you like that I reccomended the gigabyte board or not, it was not directed to you anyway.
Since you chose to jump on my reply to someone else and started this problem, why dont you leave!
P.S I notice you did not address how many ide devices can be connected?
Bottom line, I neither care or worry about what you think.
See ya:t
Bigjakkstaffa
08-29-2003, 03:55 PM
Number one, IDE connectivity is not really an issue nowadays because of the cheap cost of Promise IDE Card's/Controllers
Number two, i personally dont liek Gigabyte board and even if i did would find it hard to reccoment them over the A7n8x Deluxe in terms of features and the NF7-S and 8rda+ in terms of overclockability
and thirdly im locking this thread
--Jakk:t
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