Tweaking a system with Barton and PC2100 memory

[coyote]

Yes, until later, I'm stuck with 1gig of PC2100 DDR on my new ASUS A7N8X Deluxe and Barton 2500. (I feel like I just bought a new sportscar, but it's fuel system is governed ... until later.)

Anyway, The board is capable of FSB 333, and the Barton is 333, but the memory is 266. The duel channeling will help a bit I'm sure, and I realize that the bottleneck is still the memory, but I'm not sure I understand the RAMifications completely.

Is it true that the board will only run as fast as the memory (BTW, the memory is Crucial 2X256 DDR and 1X512 DDR)? Will the board clock down on it's own to 266 or will I have to force the issue via BIOS or jumper?

Once that is settled, what ramifications are there running with this config and what would YOU do to tweak it? I'm assuming that I would not be using the full potential of the Barton. Will the Barton run cooler at 266? Hotter? BTW, the Barton is on order. Thanks to all who helped me decide on that.

[DIMfilm]

my adivise is, try to overclock ur memory to 333 DDR ( 166 mhz )
maybe add some cooling to it. I have seen reviews where people clocked the ram. :t

[genesound]

Your best bet here may be running the memory and cpu asynchronously at their default values, then oc each of them in the usual fashion, increasing each a bit at a time until problems occur.

[coyote]

If at first I don't overclock...test everything at their default values, will the board adjust to 266 by itself? I'm not sure the crucial will overclock - not to mention I don't even know how to do it. In otherwords, after I plug everthing in and boot the first time, will the bios take care of all the timings so I'm at least stable?

[JCB]

Run it sync. Async sucks for performance. It should do 166fsb sync. Use your multipliers to overclock it.

[Bigjakkstaffa]

Try and run it at 333(166Mhz), if it wont do it as stock try relaxing the ram timings and maybe upping the vdimm voltage slightly, running the ram at 166Mhz will give quite a performance boost. If it still wont make 333, i would run it asynchronously despite the performance loss, until you can upgrade it. If you find you do need to upgrade then Crucial PC2700 CL2.5 is going for a bargain price ATM and its known to do 200Mhz FSB with minimal tweaking

--Jakk:t

[$1500-P4 gamer]

I have this mobo and cpu- you will LOVE it! Mine is running as a 3200+ for $90 chip thats great! But for not running oclocked these are the EXACT settings

CPU FSB: 166mhz
CPU multi- auto (default) which is 11x. Or manual and then set to 11x
Mem FSB:83% (this will make mem run at 133mhz and the fsb be 166mhz)

Thats it.:t

P.S. Yes duel mem is most helpfull when the fsb is higher then mem speed. Benches show thats when it gains most performance over single ch.

[Terminator]

Have almost identical setup, Barton 2500 and 2 256MB Cas2.5 Crucial PC2100 sticks running dual channelled. Personally I can't get memory chips to go to 166(333) setting no matter what timings I set. Best I could get running cas2.5 was 143MHz without changing the ram voltage. Depends on the ram you have.
If you haven't got new faster ram then like others have said run async or downclock the CPU FSB to 133(266) and run sync.
If you reduce the CPU FSB to 133 then up the multiplier to 12.5X but your chip will only run at 1662 MHz (will show up as a XP2200 on boot).
Personally I run at 2200MHz (11X200MHz) and leave the memory setting on SPD. This is my preference because I never like clocking my memory but you could always change the memory to a % of the CPU FSB and result in a memory speed of about 140(280) which should run fine. You can always change the ram voltage and this might get you a higher memory speed.
Performance wise running async with a 600MHz increase in CPU speed is faster.

T

:t

[JCB]

You guys have to increase the vdimm voltage to your RAM and try some relaxed timings. Sometimes it's not good to go too relaxed, but you just gotta try it w/ the vdimm bumped.

[coyote]

OK, I'm not too comfortable overclocking the ram. From what I understand, the A7N8X is picky about ram and I will be lucky if my crucial even works. I cancelled my order for the Barton until I can feel comfortable with my setup. Now, it is between the XP2400+ and the Barton. Here's my reasoning:

I'm more of a software/OS tweaker, not a hardware tweaker...therefore I am not familiar or at ease with overclocking - especially with memory. Since my machine is crucial (no pun) for work and home, I do not have the luxury of experimention. So, here's my choices and perhaps you can help me come to a good conclusion:

Constraints: No approval to get new memory (darn! :( )
Choices: XP2400+ or Barton 2500

If I get the 2400, then I have a match and stability. If I go to with the Barton without overclocking, then I run at 1.6 for a while or until I upgrade. We are probably talking 1 year before anymore upgrades. Would you clock low with Barton at 1.6ghz or go with a match at 2.0ghz? I know this is disappointing to ya'll, but as I said, I'm more software.

[JCB]

Neither. Even if the ram won't do 166fsb you can raise the multiplier. Doh. C'mon man, no offense, but you need to study up on your mobo. :)

Don't be afraid to experiment. Learn your way around the bios.

[coyote]

Ok, so where is MOBO & overclocking 101 info? ...geared for us who aren't worthy of such a board? :) Also, why neither? It's gotta be one or the other.

[JCB]

There are many amazing things on the internet... One (this is really great) is this thing called Google. It's so cool, ya gotta try it. And another you see at these forums .... is called the search function. Whoa... what will they think of next, eh?:t

[genesound]

:eek:

[justin9376]

why is everyone on about multiplier cant go past 12.5? i have set the multiplier in the bios to 14 on the barton and its working.

[coyote]

OK, I get the message - you don't have a specific site that you thought was particularly informative, so yes, I can search for one. However, what was the answer to the 'neither' ... unless you are saying to go P4 (heh heh)?

[JCB]

I was just saying don't worry about matching the fsb w/ your ram's rating. Crucial is **** GOOD stuff and w/ a little tweaking you should get to 166fsb w/ it easily (or close enough). You can also adjust the multiplier accordingly, along minor voltage adjustments for stablility.

This can be achieved safely and quite easily. The beauty of the nForce2 chipset allows the changing of the fsb w/ out any changes to the other busses.

You have a **** fine mobo, a **** fine cpu and some decent ram. All you need to do it tweak it out and pop a good vid card in it, and you'll be rockin w/ the big dogs. :)

Good luck and good clocking. :t

[coyote]

Did some searches, found some info. Now, do I have this straight?

Assuming I have a Barton, A7N8X Deluxe, Crucial PC2100:
1. Barton will run at 166 initially regardless of ram
2. Memory will run at 133 initially - this is what you mean by running async?
Conclusion= memory is a bottle neck, but CPU will run at stock speed (1.83) ...just throughput is slower thanks to mem speed.

Overclock mem:
1. Leave CPU settings alone (assuming above was correct)
2. Change memory setting to 166. Looking at the manual (have not installed board yet), I would go to the 'Memory Frequency settings' and set the percentage that would yield 166. The way the manual reads, it will display the resulting speed underneath the settings.

Question: Doing the calcs for the percentages, 133X120%=159.6. 133X125%=166.25. Does Sync make it 166 even? Then, is that when I cross my figures to see whether it boots or not? ...and get heat spreaders for the ram?

If this is all there is to this overclocking or my speed issue with Barton w/ PC2100, then this may be a no brainer - assuming the ram can handle a 24.8% increase in speed.

[coyote]

Just wanted to add that if I am able to run the Barton 2500 with the Crucial PC2100 worst case at default settings for both (async = CPU@166, MEM@133) and the board will run that way stable, then it sounds like with the cache increase to 512, that it would be a better choice to go Barton instead of XP2400+. Agree? Disagree? My fear is to be stuck with the wrong processor for my config and/or a system that will not POST.

[RamonGTP]

If you can't get PC2700 memory, then i'd say go for the XP2400+... A 2400+ will run faster than a Barton 2500+ running async.

[$1500-P4 gamer]

Id get the 2500+. runs tons cool and you are ready for later. Run asynch now use dcddr to help make up for it and then dump that mem later on when more mhz is needed and oclock the snott outta the 2500+. THe XP 2400+ stock speed si faster but the 2500+ will overclock so far beyond stock its not even funney. Its will make your jaw drop. Its a no brainer. Get 2500+ now. Upgrade mem later as you will anyhow. Pc2100 is dead. Or should I say dying and at the price dif between 2100 and 2700 your a fool to buy anything less than 2700 in any future purchases. Think about tommorow and less about today. It will save you $ lots later.

Also guys the XP dont gain that much from higher fsb. This is fact. Compair 200fsb 3200+ to 166mhz 3000+ bartons once. Only dif is mhz not bandwidth. Rasie the 3000+ to the 3200+ speed leaving fsb at 166mhz you got the same speed and same chip. 200fsb was only about keeping ground with P4 thats all. Same with 166mhz really. So asynch in the end will be slower but not like some make it sound to be. Little slower as NB latency is increased but the predicition of second mem controler (DCDDR) will help eliviate that latency. This is where DCDDR runs best-asych. Its where it gains the most-anyother time it only adds about 5% to speed. But in asynch more like 15% or so.:t

[coyote]

So, $1500-P4 (or anyone else) - Two questions:

1. Are you saying to run the mem at it's default speed (133) with out changing it?
2. Was I correct with everythng I said two and three notes ago? I want to make sure I understand the concept.

Everyone say's the Barton will run slower with the mem. Will it still POST at it's normal speed (1.83) as XP 2500+, or will it adjust to the ram speed (266)? Async just means that the MEM and FSB are not the same....right?

I also read on another post when 'researching', that someone else had the same scenario as I do. When he overclocked his ram to 333 (I think he meant 166), everyone said that he probably fried his PC2100. Yikes! scarey. Should I be afraid?

[$1500-P4 gamer]

I fyou want a nice safe stable easy build dont oclock the mem right away like that and dont go right for pc2700 spec either. You go in increments of like 5mhz.

But back to point.

You run the cpu at "auto" in bios for multi. You set cpu fsb in bios right under "multi" setting to "166mhz"

Now at mem heading it has 3 types.
"Manual"
"Auto"
"SPD"

Manual lets you set it to oclock or underclock the mem. Dont mess with it till you know what you are doing better. Auto means it will guess your fastest stable timings and mem speed. SPD means it uses a little chip on the actual mem stick to tell the mobo what speed it "should" run at. If you buy mem compat with this mobo "SPD" si your 100% garunteed best timings setting. The mem FSb should be set to 133mhz for pc2100(thats the mem bandwidth by the way) spec.
Follow these steps.
This will result in a stable system all within spec and no chance of oclocking the mem or cpu in anyway. So its safest if thats what you want to know. And the cpu is at 1.84gig its real speed and the mem is also at its real speed.

"1. Are you saying to run the mem at it's default speed (133) with out changing it?"

Yes! Thats called Asynch as in its not in sych with the cpu fsb which is 166mhz. Set mem to "SPD" and 83% of cpu fsb in bios settings. Its in the manual you'll get to so read up BEFORE firing up;)

"2. Was I correct with everythng I said two and three notes ago? I want to make sure I understand the concept.

Everyone say's the Barton will run slower with the mem. Will it still POST at it's normal speed (1.83) as XP 2500+"

Yes!

", or will it adjust to the ram speed (266)? Async just means that the MEM and FSB are not the same....right?"

It will run the mem at 133mhz pc2100specs. DDR is x2 so its really 133mhz x2 as its ddr. I think thats what is confusing you. So yes basically-technically its 266mhz....The XP's fsb is double pumped (two pipes) so it uses the ddr better. IT comes in 133mhz(266)-166mhz(333) and the 3200+ 200mhz(400). P4's are quad pumped. But truth be known the root fsb-the higher the better. THat is to say its better to have a true 200mhz then two pipes at 100mhz each for fsb.


"I also read on another post when 'researching', that someone else had the same scenario as I do. When he overclocked his ram to 333 (I think he meant 166), everyone said that he probably fried his PC2100. Yikes! scarey. Should I be afraid?"

Dont oclock right to that level thats what happend to him and why it fired. Also you have new hardware there-dont oclock it till you even know if it works at stock. Then make sure you KNOW what you are doing-read for a month or so learn about what you will do and kow every step well. Or it will be more of a headache then a thrill! I wouldnt mess with it now. Use the settings I gave ya above and you sure to hav eit boot fisrt time and run windows stable that is if you have all good hardware. If not ya know it isnt the cpu and mem settings.


:t

[coyote]

Awesome. So, just to repeat what you've been saying all along...

The CPU will run at 166, with auto detect setting (btw, i do at least understand the 2XFSB concept...been with AMD since K6III :) )

The mem will also set automatically @ 133 using the SPD setting (also know what that is :) )

Lastly, you are saying that I will be happy with these default speed settings until I decide the system is stable and I am ready to attempt some tweaks. It also sounds like I will benefit from the x-tra cache in the Barton VS the XP2400+, as well as the dcDDR. Cool beans.

The big unknown to me (up until now) was whether I run the speeds independently without 'too much' loss. It sounds like I can until PC2700. By then, maybe 400FSB the next step and I jump to PC3200??? Thanks Much

[Bigjakkstaffa]

I wouldnt bother jumping from PC2700 to PC3200, most decent quality CL2.5 PC2700 can easily do PC3200 speed (400Mhz FSB) either by simply laxing off the timings a little or increasing the Vdimm a notch

--Jakk:t

[coyote]

FYI, just rebought the Barton 2500. Thanks $1500-P4 gamer ... you are the voice of reason and moderation.

[$1500-P4 gamer]

Glad I could help ya decide.:t