Are MP3's here to stay?????????

[loki515]

I allways seem to get into this discusion with a friend of mine.He dosen't think that MP3's will be here to stay.His argument is,"I was told that when I bought a laser Disc player." I tried to convince him that the two are not alike. I would like to get some imput on this subject so I can print this out and settle this once and for all.Is there a better wau to compress music? Is it practicale? Do you think it's here to stay?

[Mungla]

Until the new MP3 format comes out, yes it is here to stay. M$ is plain crazy if they think the public will switch over to their WMA format. M$ has said that WMA has better quality, but do you remember VHS vs. Beta? Exactly, VHS was easy to use and less expensive. MP3 has very lax security options, if any at all, while M$ has said that WMA can have copyright protection.

[ragtop]

Music formats have changed over the years from grooved wax cylinders to vinyl LP's to WAV files on CD to MP3's (not to mention tapes - reel to reel, 8 track, cassette, etc.) Then you have mono sound, stereo sound, surround sound......

Music technology will continue to change, MP3's will only be around until something better takes their place.

[deltaf508]

But there will always be a way to convert your MP3 file over to the next best format http://www.sysopt.com/forum/smile.gif

Gary

[Canon]

Actually there is another music format that is supposibly better than Mp3. It's called VQF.
You can go to their site, www.vqf.com (http://www.vqf.com) to see what it's all about.

[loki515]

The Beta vs. Vhs is allways my buddy's argument.I just think it is here to stay for a long while kinda like the cassette player.I bet people thought that wouldn't be here long but look it's still hereut on it's way out.OH well thanks for your input hopefully will get more .......SIC.....

[daveleau]

As we know it today, no it will not be around, but some form of it will be around until something alot better comes out. MP3 will not have the shortlived tenure of the laser disk though. That rivals Beta and Divx as being the most shortlived technology. http://www.sysopt.com/forum/smile.gif MP3 music will be here in DLable format in one way or another for years to come.

WinXP is trying to stop that though and trying to ween us away from MP3 towards their media player formats. All this means is one more reason to not take the Experience (WinXP)...

Dave

[SiteCharts.com]

Your info about WinXP is outdated and wrong...

[club_med]

To SiteCharts.com:

If you would like to be an active and helpful member of our Sysopt community then you should refrain from posting such comments, simply to tell someone that their knowledge is wrong is not very valid or legitimate, only when you post an alternative will your comments become helpful and valid.

Now to turn back to the topic, if one takes it literally then mp3’s are not here to stay, what I mean is that in future, whether near or far there will be evolved generations of mp3 type files and technologies, they might not be called mp3, but they will all be based and have evolved from this technology.

I think mp3 type technology will become much more refined, allowing us to further reduce the size of music files and increase their original quality.

cm.

[loki515]

The reason I am asking is do I want to invest in a big money MP3 player?Do i want a DVD player that will play MP3's? Do i want a car stero that will except MP3"s ? I don't know who your comment was to but this is for personnal knowldge for me and others who might have the sam e?
,,............SIC>.........

Nevermind I see who now...Sorry


[This message has been edited by loki515 (edited 04-20-2001).]

[SiteCharts.com]

Well I just don't like people bad mouthing something/someone they don't know.
And he DOESN'T KNOW!
How about flaming him about posting something that "is wrong is not very valid or legitimate" and helpful.
I'm a beta-tester, I KNOW! WinXP behaves JUST LIKE Win2K concerning mp3s (legal and illegal)! So I correct him.
What is there more to say??
And what is wrong with THAT?

I mean, what's up with you?
Are you part of a gang that beats up and flames junior members when they tell one of you that you are wrong?
Next time he might tell someone that their CPU doesn't need cooling ;-)
But, hey, he is always right! And if you correct him some other gang member starts acting up.

[This message has been edited by SiteCharts.com (edited 04-20-2001).]

[mudoggy]

And receiving the award for "Member Overreacting in Thread".... it'.... SiteCharts.com!

Seriously, though, settle down. He was merely pointing out that to lay down a comment like "You are wrong" or "you data is old/irrelavent", you need to justify why you think so, and back it up with knowledge or opinion of your own, and your basis for that opinion. Preferably in the same post. It would have been totally different if you had put the two posts together so people would have a frame of reference in order to judge your offhand comment.

That's how constructive debate and learning takes place, which is what this board is all about.

Also, how you say (type) things makes a difference as well. How did you feel when you read the first line of my post? Compare that to reading the rest of it, which I tried to compose in a logical and objective manner.

IMO, I think he would have jumped on your comment regardless of who you aiming it towards, so I don't think you were singled out for commenting on daveleau's post. I could be wrong, but that's my gut feeling.

Anyway, welcome to the board (a fine welcome it was, eh? hahaha), and I hope you get a lot out of it as I have. http://www.sysopt.com/forum/smile.gif

[club_med]

I mean, what's up with you?
Are you part of a gang that beats up and flames junior members when they tell one of you that you are wrong?
Next time he might tell someone that their CPU doesn't need cooling ;-)
But, hey, he is always right! And if you correct him some other gang member starts acting up.

Sitecharts.com what are you going on about ?, you are new here and i have pointed out to you something that will make your life here easy and enjoyable.

I am giving you helpful advice, we here at Sysopt don't just say someone else is wrong without saying why we think it or know it, we always say why, we give alternatives and/or explanations.

Since you are new here you obviously cannot know that beforehand.

Flaming is something completely different.

Enjoy your stay at Sysopt.
cm.

P.s. We do not flame members for not knowing something either.

[loki515]

Hey do you think we can get back on the subject please.I weant to know if it's worth buying ?...SIC...

[DanU]

ANY new standard needs a certain critical mass of users before it becomes widely accepted. The MP3 format has certainly reached that point. Just look at the incredible popularity of Napster. And look at all the products that are capable of playing MP3 files. Practically everyone with a computer uses MP3 files.

I think your friend is worried about locking himself into a physical format, like buying a Beta VCR or a Sony MiniDisc. But the MP3 format isn't tied to any physical format. Any number of devices can use MP3s. You can store them on hard drives, tapes, optical disks, non-volatile RAM, etc. You can decode an MP3 using practically any processor, be it a Pentium, K6-x, G3, Alpha, Hitachi SH-x, StrongARM, etc.

I recently bought a RioVolt, a CD/MP3/WMA player. I just LOVE being able to play 10 hours of music from a single CDR. That's the point, right? As long as you are happy with your purchase, who cares what anyone else thinks. I don't need the extra stress in my life trying to convince a techno-skeptic about the advantages of a better technology. I'll just sit back and listen to my music for the next 10 hours while your friend fumbles with about 20 CDs or cassette tapes.

[BBA]

I would really like to see WMA become more popular...or maybe not. WMA is a higher fidelity format than MP3 ( same old VHS vs Beta again ) and it's freely ripped and recorded to CD audio by the Windows mediaplayer even. ( but you still have to install the crappy Easy CD Creator software to get that function in MP7, but that can be had with any cdrw drive you buy. )

I do think there are much better compression formats out...like the codecs used for MP4 recording...man...the custom codec my buddy is making from the MPEG4 codec... a steady 200K/sec datastream from a cable modem plays realtime DVD quality video and audio....( I saw it myself while drooling with my jaw on the floor.)

[Mungla]

BBA, from my encoding experience with Divx (MPEG-4), most generally people use MP3 compression for the audio side of the feed. VBR (variable bit-rate) MP3s have very similar quality, but can be reduced in size, compared to a normal MP3, drastically.

[Futants]

I must put my 2 cents in also. I just got into the sceen of CDR/RW. I was devistated to find out how bad MP3's sound! I was ranting and raving to a buddy of mine until he told me to calm down. Why is it that people buy MP3 players? The soud quality of that format is on average 9 times less! A normal CD file for a 5 Min song is 50 megs and an MP3 is 5 megs. Although I have to admit it does sound pretty good on most stereos, my Sony 5.1 channel home system brings out it's flaws. Now I only burn CD to CD, to keep as much quality as I can.
As to is this here to stay i would say not top long. Especially if everyone goes and gets those players!

[This message has been edited by Futants (edited 04-21-2001).]

[RayH]

If you "came up" in music BEFORE stereo and with vinyls...you'd undestand why some of us are satisified with MP3!

While some quest for the "perfect tone," maybe this analogy will help: In an interview, the late Baron Phillipe de Rothschild (the wine magnate) said the best bottle of wine he ever had was a very inexpensive bottle he shared on a lake with his first love. He said, quite often, what makes something great is the surrounding!

I can guarantee you that the remastered recordings of Jimi Hendrix and Eric Clapton are "better" than the live performances I saw them at, in their first US tours, over 33 years ago!

[club_med]

Just bought the lastest issue of Popular Science (http://www.popsci.com) and they have an article about the new generation of Mp3, its called Mp3Pro and will be half the size of Mp3.

Mp3Pro can give you music at 46kbps with the same music quality as 128kbps Mp3's.

Mp3Pro will be readable from old mp3 players too.

I wasnt able to find the article on their site yet and im not sure its on there.

Quite interesting though,
cm.

[ragtop]

loki:
Doesn't look like you'll get a definitive answer to your question. MP3 will be around for a few years (you'll surely be able to convert any new technology over to MP3 format for quite a while)

So, if you really want that big $$$ MP3 player, then go for it - just realize that it will probably become obsolete in a few years, just like a typical piece of computer hardware.

Hey, I have a neighbor that just spent $7000 on the latest state of the art high definition TV. That will be obsolete in a few years too, but thats what he wanted - so good for him!!

[daveleau]

sitecharts.com
I am interested in seeing documented info about M$'s decision to reverse their MP3 stance. A link would be useful. I cannot find my link but it was on the register. I am not refuting what you have said. I have been known to be wrong. I would never tell anyone to not cool their cpu though. http://www.sysopt.com/forum/wink.gif

I think what club_med (thanks man) was trying to do was very nice and int he spirit of the forums. Bluntness in front of the public can offend many (not me) and is not really in the spirit of the forum (be nice and otehrs will be nice to you).

Good luck with your web business
Dave

Here's the link: http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/4/18276.html

Your info must be very new cus this was put out on the 20th. Thanks go to BBA for the link. ( http://www.sysopt.com/forum/Forum1/HTML/012695.html)

NOTHING TO SEE HERE!!!
[This message has been edited by Bill Gates (edited 04-25-2001).]

[This message has been edited by daveleau (edited 04-25-2001).]

[SiteCharts.com]

One of the new features of Windows XP is the new Windows Media Player 8.
And it already has been at the center of high contoversy and speculations. Rumors are flying wild on the internet and in computer magazines. It is supposed to only play legal mp3s. Others heared that it will play all mp3 files but because Microsoft want to push it's own WMA technlogy they will only be played back in a very bad quality.
As soon as we had our copy of Windows XP installed we came to the heart of the matter: all can rest easy. Windows Media Player 8 is still able to play back all mp3 files and there was absolutely no difference in sound quality between Windows XP and Windows 2000 or Windows 9x. And other players like Winamp will do too!
The source of all these rumors was probably that Windows Media Player 8 requires a mp3 plug-in to encode or rip CD audio (or WAV files) into mp3 format.
For testing purposes Microsoft included this plug-in in the Windows XP Beta but it was limited to 56 kbps rips.
(56 kbps is way to low to encode an audio CD properly even in medium quality)
But the limit isn't programmed into the plug-in but it is set in the Windows Registry.

Encode high-quality MP3s with Windows Media Player 8

Start the Registry Editor (run: regedit) and go to the following key:
HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE \ SOFTWARE \ Microsoft \ MediaPlayer \ Settings \ MP3Encoding

Here, you'll see the values "LowRate" and "LowRateSample", that limit Windows Media Player 8 to the single 56 Kbps sample rate. To add better encoding options, add the following keys (New => DWORD):
"LowRate" = 0000dac0 (DWORD)
"MediumRate" = 0000fa00 (DWORD)
"MediumHighRate" = 0001f400 (DWORD)
"HighRate" = 0002ee00 (DWORD)
Now you can start Windows Media Player 8 (without restarting your computer) and under Tools, then Options, then Copy Music, you will find the four encoding choices for MP3 you added above: 56 Kbps, 64 Kbps, 128 Kbps, and 192 Kbps.
And now you can rip, encode and play mp3s to your hearts desire in different qualities.

Courtesy SiteCharts.com

I hope this helps...
BTW: I would appreciate it if you have any other WinXP tips, tweaks, experiences.

[timmmey]

Hey loki515,

When u first started this dusscission u said that you wanted to know because u and your friend keep having a argument. but then u switch to saying should i buy mp3 devices. hehe pleaze dont get mad im not trying to be rude.

[daveleau]

Thanks sitecharts http://www.sysopt.com/forum/smile.gif
Dave

[loki515]

Timmy that is the reason of the srgument is he's was saying don't go spend money on this stuff he didn't think it was going to be around. Thanks for the direction fellas has been some very good input...SIC...

[BTPGravity]

I see that some of u here r die hard *nix follower.
This thread is about 'Are MP3's here to stay?' not 'What Microsoft goin' to do with MP3'.
*nix may be good but the follower **** people off.
Not to forget *nix developer is trying to imitate Windows -> GUI interface, just like what Microsoft has been accused of.

[radio1_mike]

I agree with RayH.

I am perfectly fine with MP3s, the way they are right now. I grew listening to albums and buying 45s. CDs came out when I was in high school.

128b/sec encoding sounds fine to my ears.

I never even understand people who hear differences, and insist on 192 or even 320 encoding- why even bother. Don't waste disk space, just play the CD through Windows.

I tried WMAs last month, M$ says their 64 bit sounds like a 128 MP3. It does not. Way too much artifacting, even for my tired ears.

MP3Pro does look interesting, though.

So, what is the deal with XP and MP3s, anyways?

[jad1097]

This is cool. (http://www.athome.compaq.com/showroom/static/iPAq/music_center.asp)

Now about MS & XP.

States eye new MS antitrust action (http://www.zdnet.com/zdnn/stories/news/0,4586,2778871,00.html?chkpt=zdhpnews01)

Windows XP: Hold the MP3? (http://www.zdnet.com/zdnn/stories/news/0,4586,5092608,00.html)

Windows XP: Brave new OS? (http://www.zdnet.com/zdnn/specialreport/0,12737,6020324,00.html)

Windows XP ("Whistler") FAQ (http://www.winsupersite.com/faq/whistler.asp)

[doggabone]

No-one has mentioned the Ogg Vorbis project. I encode and rip to it - it sounds just as good to my ears, possibly a little richer in the lower mids. I use it in part to support the effort, and if (I forget the company name) comes through on their intention to charge for use of the codec, I don't want to have that price built into my software/hardware. I'm not saying it's better, I'm saying I like it. Actually, I expected to see some comments about it here already - seemed a natural fit.
http://www.ogg-vorbis.com/about.asp


Ogg Vorbis is a completely open, patent-free, professional audio encoding format, with streaming technology with all the benefits of Open Source.

The Ogg Vorbis format is intended for unrestricted private and public, non-profit and commercial use. There are no bitstream royalties and the reference software, including full source, is free forever. The encoders, decoders, plug-ins, and tools, which you can find here and at vorbis.com are under the GPL (GNU Public License) and the libraries are under the business-friendly LGPL (Lesser/Library GNU Public License).

Ogg Vorbis does not compromise quality for freedom. Its stunning quality is coupled with aggressive features like fast bitrate scaling, surround channels, and fast sample-granularity seek and decode. The development libraries offer full encoding, decoding, and streaming capability for Windows, Linux/*BSD, Solaris, MacOS, and BeOS.

Please download the tools and plugins in order to try Ogg Vorbis out for yourself. Developers and technology partners may wish to visit the Ogg Vorbis developer's section for source, documentation, and access to the Ogg developer community.



Some say it will replace MP3's. I say something will - but not for quite some time. As has been pointed out, it has the general market saturation to stay in place for quite some time.

[PrimalX]

to loki515:

It's all depends on what u need, if u have a large collection of mp3s and u like listening to music on the go, then the answer would be YES. I recently bought a RioVolt - mp3 cd player - and it's been rocking my socks since then... hmm.. like 3 weeks so far.

Who cares about mp3's here to stay or not, just worry about the present. Like it or not, I think mp3's gonna stay for a while, so is your investment in the mp3 player. @ least it will last for like 2+ years.

[whatsit_version204]

Another method of compression that I think will become more popular is losslesscompression such as FLAC flac.sourceforge.net/ (http://flac.sourceforge.net/) . Here no quality is lost and all those with golden ears can swap music like the rest of us. This will be possible with improvements in encoder quality and increased network bandwidth.

RE weather to buy a hardware MP3 player. Some of the better units have upgradeable flash memory anyway to handle new formats as they appear.

[8megs1]

Customer Demand and money usually calls the shots.What do you say?I say I keep hearing MP3 all the time.Younger people like it, and they buy most of the records.
I think it's worthwhile to consider buying an MP3 Gizmo, but I personaly don't own one.
Life is short and Music is a big part of it.Enjoy technology while you can, nothing lasts forever.

[bhess]

Make the purchase. Even if something new comes out there will be a way to encode it to mp3 again.

[RayH]

As long as you have MP3s and what to play them on, what's the problem? I still have vinyls and a turntable!