Case cooling question...

[Brangwen]

Fellow Comp-Dudes & Dudettes:

Like most Athlon (Thunderbird) owners, my biggest concern and most time consuming endeavor is keeping my system cool under load. Especially as ambient temps begin to rise.

I have a 1.33 GHz Socket A (running @ 1.5 but no voltage/temp increase) on an Iwill board. I'm using a Taisol (copper insert HS) with a 32 CFM fan from a FOP32.

These are situated in a 17.5" tall ATX case, with a 80mm intake fan (lower front - average CFM) and 60mm exhaust fan upper rear (<u>must</u> <u>be</u> below average CFM at 60mm!).

My 300W PSU (with its own exhaust fan of course) sits next to above mentioned 60mm case exhaust fan port.

I run a 7200rpm IBM HDD, Plextor CDRW, Creative CDROM.

My video is a Creative GeForce GTS (32MB) with a little "toy" fan on it and a slot exhaust fan beneath it.

I run 512 MB PC133 SDRAM.

Now, to the heart of the matter. If my air conditioner is on in my computer "room," my CPU "idles" around 27C (85F) and the system stays around 20C (70F). (I'm guessing at the exact C to F conversions, but you get the rough idea.) Now, if the temp in the room is 75-78F like now, my CPU is running at 35C (95F) and the system is at 28C (86F). If I run under heavy load (D.Net or Gaming) my CPU runs at 53C (127F) and system at 31C without air conditioning on.

I am seriously questioning my case cooling configuration. I looked at so-called "Tornado" cases at 3DCool (http://www.3DCool.com) and observed that their boxes have dual fans blowing into one side of the boxes, with one or two 40+ CFM rear exhaust fans. I'm thinking of following their example and installing one or two intake fans into one side of my case to spill air over the mobo, vidcard, etc. Also I'd cut a larger exhaust port in the rear of my case to exhaust more than what my puny 60mm fan is accomplishing.

Any ideas or input about side intake fans?

Interesting to note 3DCool takes the position that:

Anyone selling a case with a top fan never tested for airflow. Top fans disrupt airflow and increase temperatures. You never want a top fan under any scenario! This surprised me, as heat rises, of course...

Thanks for your comments before I begin drilling fan holes!

Brangwen http://www.sysopt.com/forum/wink.gif

[Bovon]

Bro Brangwen,

Air flo engineering is way out of my ball park, and I dare say most of the 'dudes and dudettes' here at the forum. I have ideas as well as anyone else, but when it comes down to chopping holes in the tower that are somewhat irreversable in cosmetic content, you just gotta let your conscious be your guide.

I think that maybe two larger, but lower rpm front and rear case fans (80 - 90 mm VS 60 mm) would be better. Using the rounded cables to the drives not only improve appearance, but improve airflow.

Here is what I have bought, and the reasons why...you do as you please.

After reading as much as I could find and asorb, I decided on the Antec SOHO SX 1030 (1040 FULL tower would have been better) I will have two 80 mm intake fans in front, two 80 mmb fans in the rear (standard case configuration) I will use rounded cables to the drives (I do think these will be of much value with airflow) I will have one 120 mm fan side-case mounted blowing in directly on the cpu fan and heatsink, (possibly even with a small duct directing the intake air directly into the HSF assy) and either one 120 mm or one 90 mm side case fan near the top of the case behind the drives exausting..

I will have quick disconnects in the wireing to the side mounted fans, as well as a switch for these fans to turn on or off as necessary for tests or removal,ect. I may have a separate 12 volt dc supply for the extra fans, ect.

I know some of the case airflow purests will take issue maybe with my thoughts on this, but I don't believe the airflow will be interrupted enough to cause any problems.

It is my opinion that dead or hot-air spots are not as prevalient as some would have us believe...if we have more than enough airflow in and out of the case, I think the dead spots will dissappear by them selves.

All of this airflo in and out of the case, filtering may be very important...all of the air exchange possible isn't any good, if we choke up the internal sinks with dust.

[Kuasimodem]

If you can, you should try to replace that 60mm exhaust fan with an 80 or 92mm. Replace the power supply fan with a high flow 80mm. And replace the front intake fan with high flow unit. Some good names are Sunon, CoolerMaster, Panaflow, Delta (loud ones). Also think about putting a slot fan near your vid card if you have an open slot that it will fit in, this will take a lot of the heat produced by the video card directly out of the case.

I'm running 3 CoolerMaster 80mm fans (1 intake and 2 exhaust, one in the PS) and one Antec slot fan (42cfm, real quiet) in my Antec tall mid-tower case (KS282+). With my Super Orb cooler on the 900 T-bird, I get idle temps of 83-87 degrees F at idle and it maxes out at 115 degrees.

The one change that I am making is I'm building a water cooling setup in a full tower case, using Danger Den (http://www.dangerden.com) water blocks (cpu, vid and northbridge) and radiator. I'm hoping to keep the processor within 10 degrees of ambient room temps under full load.

[Brangwen]

Thx for your responses. As an aside, I'm presently using rounded cables, even a rounded FDD cable. In addition, I have a slot fan below my vidcard, exhausting out. But the way the systems are configured, heat from the vidcard rises directly to the air supply that's being blown onto the CPU/HS! Foolish design, it seems to me. I will ponder your ideas and suggestions and await more.

Brangwen http://www.sysopt.com/forum/wink.gif

[Axel]

Is removing the case completely an option for you?

You make no mention of thermal paste - do you have thermal paste between the heat sink and the CPU?

One thing you can try is taking a drill to the widest flat area of the case - drill lots of holes - then take an air conditioner filter and cover the holes with the filter - you might even build a frame to hold it there - Then add several high capacity fans to the top of the case after having added holes there and have them drawing air out of the case - out through the top - like a chimney.

Thing is - it will probably sound like you have an air-craft carrier in that room....

Another thing you can look for is several PCI slot fans and place a fan inbetween every PCI device drawing air out of the case - Make sure you don't crowd your PCI devices together and definitely give your video card room & air. After the processor - that's usually your next hot spot in many cases.

[Brangwen]

Thx, Axel. In fact, in lieu of the Artic Silver II that I usually use, I'm using a stock thermal pad rated by Taisol for my chip. I was leary about using it, but my temps in the Spring seemed great so I left it on. I may change that.

Going without a case is not an option.

I'm thinking of either modifying my mid-tower with larger front intake and larger rear exhaust fans and placing intake fan(s) on the side to blow air over the VidCard and motherboard, or replacing the mid-size tower with full size with aforementioned fan placement to guarantee plenty of room and flowing air between my components. It makes sense to me that one needs cool system air to provide reasonably cool air to the heatsink fan, and then to the CPU.

I'm thinking pretty much along the lines of Bro Bovon as far as fan cable disconnects and placement.

Brangwen http://www.sysopt.com/forum/wink.gif


[This message has been edited by Brangwen (edited 06-19-2001).]

[Axel]

One thing you mentioned -

I hate that the AGP slot is almost always placed so the video chip pre-heats the air blowing over the processor heat sink - makes almost no sense except that the circuit distance from the CPU to the video processor is minimized increasing performance.

You might get some plexi-glass and build a chimney/fume hood over the video card to channel this hot air away and pump it directly to a high speed exhaust fan - That will probably drop you well away from the 53C you mentioned.

[daveleau]

I have a nice guy here at work that has a drill press. I got a 3inch circular attatchment for a drill and drill two holes in the side of my case across from the CPU and the AGP slot. I mounted two good cfm rated 80mm fans and mounted them over the holes and saw a whopping 5-7 C difference in case temps. I was VERY happy. I would recommend it.

Dave

[nunyadam]

my full tower sit's about an inch off my desk . so i cut a hole for a 120mm intake fan in the bottom of the case. I would'nt recommend this if your case sit's on the floor (atleast not without a filter!)
Up top there is another 120mm exhaust in the unused drive bay's. The top rear has a 92mm exhaust. In the middle of the back next to the processor is a 40mm exhaust pulling air out of the dead zone caused by the power supply.
I also have a old 486 fan on my 3d card.
Almost forgot to mention the fop-32 on the processor.
The Nidec 120mm (92cfm)fan in the bottom really moves th air through the system (I can disconnect the little 40mm and it keep's spinning!)
If I do as planned and move the other 120mm to the rear position my case will look like a stock case.

I think the first thing you should do is get rid of that pad ,and use the arctic silver. 53c makes me nervous. As my system sit's it top's out at about 48c full load (it's alway's at full load crack'in rc5)

I you like a stock looking case(stealth mode) you might consider hiding that fan in the bottom of the case.

nunya

[This message has been edited by nunyadam (edited 06-19-2001).]

[Brangwen]

Great ideas! I'm pondering and will post back! Thx!

Brangwen http://www.sysopt.com/forum/wink.gif