//flex table opened by JP

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Dracas
06-20-2003, 12:11 AM
Has anyone else noticed this lately? How just about every major memory manufacturer has been selling 'overmarked' memory that really doesn't "stack up" to its specifications?

For instance, memory modules labeled for PC3200 but only run stably at PC2700 speeds, or Modules rated for 2-2-2-5T timings but only work (boot) if set to 2-3-3-5T, there has even been a report (multiple that I've heard) of Corsairs high-end memory rated for 2-2-2-5T having to be set at 2-4-4-10T just to function correctly.

But notice, you only find these mass errors in the "High Performance" arena. A cheap stick of Crucial seems to work every time, doesn't it? But Crucial always sells a bit 'under the buck' with flavors like PC2100/PC2700. Why?

I have my suspicions that (currently) the memory industry is undergoing a kind of gridlock stasis where the technology makes it sanely to PC2700, then anything over that seems to be a roll of the dice because they have to 'hand pick' chips capable of reaching the so called "high performance rating".

However, I doubt its as clear as that. Memory chip makers sell chips to Module manufacturers in "batches", if the module maker sees that a few of the memory chips from this 'batch' works at a higher speed then they thought, they take the entire 'batch' and run them as high performance PC3200/PC3500/PC3700, saying that they have 'hand picked' the chips being used; when in reality they only labeled a 'batch' that had a few good tests.

That said, not every chip in that batch is going to perform well, this is most apparent in PC3700 Memory Modules, where the memory modules are run at 466MHz FSB, but you have to use CAS3.0, and a slower command rate to get them there - sometimes, even if you do, they still won't work correctly. They need to use the higher CAS to force that 'potential batch of PC2700 chips" up to PC3700, try to run some PC3700 DDR SDRAM at CAS2.0 or 2.5 and it won't work. The same tactic is used in PC3200 and PC3500 modules, but is less noticeable the closer you get to the standard PC2700. Less stress on the chips, basically.

Why? There hasn't been any real 'break-throughs' in Memory chip manufacturing, the one exception is 3.3ns BGA ram, which actually does perform better more often then not, so long as its not being forced up the scale like traditional DIP memory chips. So now we're stretching it a bit, we're pulling out the speeds of our old PC2100/PC2700 Memory chip batches like Taffee, and relabeling them. But the effects of doing that are unfortuneate and apparent, even just browsing through the reviews on Newegg.com

This was never a problem until now, hence why I have my suspicions that the above is true, its open for debate, so feel free to comment, its a personal 'thought' on the matter, but maybe it would be better just to aim low, you might get better performance for your buck (when it comes to memory anyhow)

Happy Posting :t

BipolarBill
06-20-2003, 12:36 AM
Just tell me what's the BEST! Don't bother me with FACTS! Tell me what to BUY!

The above is pure satire. Please don't respond.

:D

Someone Stupid
06-20-2003, 12:36 AM
I have a gig of Corsair 3200, and I had gotten it when 3200 and 3500 were the top speeds and Corsair had only just released the 3500 modules (as I remembered they costed to much for to little gain). The two sticks I'm using not only are running in dual channel (even though they aren't matched), but are running at 2-2-5 at CAS 2 on stock vdimm, can't get them much higher unless I vmod my board as the chipsets voltage is an issue with overclocks on the EPoX fairly badly. Have gotten other XMS up rather easily from lower speeds.

You'll always have to drop latencies. With 3500 and 3700 though I just don't think the chips have come far enough to really market the yields.. but without selling the yields, that raises research cost as it is no longer somewhat offset with the sales of the research. I look at buying anything over 3200 as iffy anytime just because that is the edge of performance for memory, and one little screw up and your pc doesn't boot or you get random crashes. Never had Corsair do me wrong, have had a real bad experience with several sticks of Giel, so I'm never using them again. Also have had good experiences with Kingston.

If they sell sticks that don't perform, they should have to replace them. Most high end manufacturers do.

NDD
06-20-2003, 03:09 AM
Nice research Dracas, however, you seem to forget one thing.
Everything has its limits.
That's why DDRII is coming :t

Dracas
06-20-2003, 08:04 PM
Yeah, I know, but it should be stickied or something as a "Cavet Emptor"(buyer beware) so people know what they're really getting into when it comes to buying the current (available) types of ram

Whens DDR2 due out, anyhow?

NDD
06-22-2003, 12:51 PM
Q4 2004, as far as I know ...