XP sp1 a mistake.....

[rangeral]

Thats just peachy, ironically I have a dialup so I didn't try to d/l it.

http://www.pcworld.com/news/article/0,aid,111177,00.asp

saying it hurts performance and don't plan on fixing it, short article.

But then should anybody be surprised at this Bill of goods.

[cbh]

Which one is it? There are so many things on that page.

:confused:

[stix_kua]

Originally posted by cbh
Which one is it? There are so many things on that page.

:confused:

It's about WIndows XP Service Pack 1.

[KraZy_SkitZy]

SP1 has been a wasted download for me, I'm not a fan of it, maybe SP2 will be better :t

[Billforce]

I have heard and read so many horror stories about SP1 that I downloaded it but have never installed it yet... My XP Pro works flawlessly, why would I need the service pack?

[NDD]

Originally posted by Billforce
... My XP Pro works flawlessly, why would I need the service pack?
My man :cool: :t

[DocEvi1]

I installed SP1 and don't have any troubles, without out I had a few bugs.

That article is referring to patches installed AFTER SP1.

Stefan

[bblqj78]

SP1....who cares.

I Installed last week cos my new modem drivers demanded it....my XP was running good before hand and had a number of problems with software after.......

Yep....waste of time..

Avoid it if possible....!

:cool:

[Swordfish]

XP runs fine without SP1....the article talks about patches as well as slow down due to general SP1 installation.

Most do experience slowdowns with their systems..its a fact.But it really doesn't matter much, once you uninstall SP1.

[2penguins]

Here's one really nasty problem with SP1......The Nvidia drivers included can give you some real grief.....I have had to reboot in safe mode to get pass the dead screen after an install......

It's fine after you update the drivers....

[jmatt]

Programs Run Slower After You Install Windows XP SP-1
The information in this article applies to:
Microsoft Windows XP Professional SP1
Microsoft Windows XP Home Edition SP1

http://www.windows-help.net/WindowsXP/xp-sp1-bug.html
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;815411

Fixes speed problems in XPsp1 ( boot & program loading )
http://www.iebeta.net/files/Q815411_WXP_SP2_x86_ENU.exe
http://www.warp2search.net/download.php?op=viewdownload&cid=9
http://winxp.bink.nu/

Patch slows down XP
http://forums.zdnet.com/group/zd.Computer.Newbies/community/community.tpt/@thread@39018@F@1@D-,D@ALL/@article@mark@39018?EXP=ALL&VWM=&ROS=&OC=75
MS03-013: Buffer Overrun in Windows Kernel Message Handling Could Lead to Elevated Privileges
http://www.ntbugtraq.com/default.asp?pid=36&sid=1&A2=ind0304&L=ntbugtraq&F=P&S=&P=2839
Experts warn not to apply Microsoft patch
Microsoft has pulled the 811493 security patch. PC World Article.

[sm8000]

Did MS re-release 811493 after fixing it? Thought they did. Anyways the fixed fix will be in the next service pack.

[rangeral]

Well I lost a cluster yesterday on this rma'd WD drive and xp which happens to be on it went into a truncating frenzy on bootup of around 900mg suppose it could have been worse but XP handled it pretty well lost a few reg entries but nothing a reinstall couldn't fix luckily preferences didn't even have to be reset just a connection back to the reg, restores not working so I'll have to play around with that.

So with an original 1yr old instal plus couple of minor virus fixes I wonder how it would have acted had sp1 been in there.:eek:

[bushmaster]

My question is if you are using a mobo with the Nforce2 chipset, which fix's and patches do you then run to be able to utilize stuff like the Nforce memory controllers.

[mpacey]

Originally posted by Billforce
I have heard and read so many horror stories about SP1 that I downloaded it but have never installed it yet... My XP Pro works flawlessly, why would I need the service pack?

Exactly.

I have not downloaded anything from Microsoft for XP, and it works fine.

There is a security patch that I did download from GRC, and I would recomend it.

The details and download are available here:

http://grc.com/default.htm

[Picard]

Originally posted by Billforce
I have heard and read so many horror stories about SP1 that I downloaded it but have never installed it yet... My XP Pro works flawlessly, why would I need the service pack?


http://support.microsoft.com/support/ServicePacks/Windows/XP/SP1FixList.asp


To sum up, better security, reliability, and stability.


The only horror stories I have heard are from people who've f'd up their oprating sytem with spyware and trojan's.

[mpacey]

Originally posted by Picard



http://support.microsoft.com/support/ServicePacks/Windows/XP/SP1FixList.asp


To sum up, better security, reliability, and stability.


The only horror stories I have heard are from people who've f'd up their oprating sytem with spyware and trojan's.

I do not trust Microsoft's explanations when it comes to updates such as "Service Packs".

In most cases, it just gives their servers more control over one's O/S.

I believe currently they have 19 methods whereby they can influence one's XP O/S.

[Billforce]

Originally posted by Picard



http://support.microsoft.com/support/ServicePacks/Windows/XP/SP1FixList.asp


To sum up, better security, reliability, and stability.


The only horror stories I have heard are from people who've f'd up their oprating sytem with spyware and trojan's.

HOW can you improve on 100%, stability and reliability and security is caveat emptor!:t

[Picard]

Originally posted by Billforce


HOW can you improve on 100%, stability and reliability and security is caveat emptor!:t

You are joking, right?

[Picard]

Originally posted by mpacey


I do not trust Microsoft's explanations when it comes to updates such as "Service Packs".

In most cases, it just gives their servers more control over one's O/S.

I believe currently they have 19 methods whereby they can influence one's XP O/S.

Might we be a wee bit paranoid? You know, there are drugs available to treat that.

[fishybawb]

I believe currently they have 19 methods whereby they can influence one's XP O/S.

Care to "enlighten" us?

[cdroman]

I've got it installed along with all security updates and don't have any problems. I don't use the video drivers from the update site though.

[rangeral]

I think the best service paks were for office 97 around 20mg worth, I'll throw in the sp's for nt4 and IE 5.01 these went pretty goodly.

[kevrob1]

Initially I installed service pack 1 from a cd and all went smoothly. I have since had to reformat and I installed SP1 right after the reformat and all is well. There has been no loss of performance for me. I think that unfortunately there are compatibility issues with certain hardware and software and it seems a crapshoot as to who will be affected. Unfair that is...:(

[mpacey]

Originally posted by fishybawb


Care to "enlighten" us?

I printed a copy from the Site that detailed this info.

I can not find it right now.

I will try, but right now I am watching the Blue Jays game.

Anyone that does a little research (maybe through Google) will discover what I am talking about.

This is not paranoia.

Automatic Updates and the messages about a newer version of MSN Messenger and WMP are just some examples of how Microsoft's servers have a great deal of control over anyone connected to the Internet

[Slade54]

Hmmm....but when you think about it, this is actualy a first for MS.

Before, some of their orginal products were pretty shaddy, and full of bugs and holes, and it took a few months for them to get patched up, and running smoothly.

Now we have the opposite. People complaing that the patched up work is messing up the orginal.

Some food for thought.

[RamonGTP]

Isn't SP1 required for USB 2.0 support?

[Slade54]

No, thats a hardware thing. No special software required.

And if it was, that would be really screwed up.

[cbh]

In other words, we protect ourselves from illegal intruders but we protect ourselves from Microsoft intruders.

Right?

:eek:

[omendata]

Yep - everything Microsoft touches turns to dog doo.
Install service pack 1 at your peril - it buggers everything up.

I installed it on a test machine and not only the machine buggered up but it shrunk my willy a couple of inches ....
now the girls will have to be satisified with only 10 inches,,,,
**** microsoft.....and I cant uninstall!!!!!
double ****.,...
:D

[mpacey]

Originally posted by cbh
In other words, we protect ourselves from illegal intruders but we protect ourselves from Microsoft intruders.

Right?

:eek:

Yes, one should protect oneself from both.

Do simple things like disabling "automatic update."

[bushmaster]

On my last install of XP pro, I did a streamlined install using sp1a. I've neutered all of the MS callhomeware, and to date have had no problems at all.
Some of the things to stay clear of is the latest version of WMP, because it locks itself into your system, and even if you do manage to "uninstall" it by rolling back your system using system restore, you'll end up with all sorts of small traces of it and possibly an unstable system.
Besides I refuse to have system restore eating up system resources and space on my hard drives.

Also if your using an Nforce2 mobo w/o SP1 and you think it runs great, try it with SP1 in a streamlined install and you'll see a difference.

[Comage]

So what's the conclusion? To install or not to install?

[Aarmenaa]

I dunno-I have SP1 installed, and it seems to work just fine, but I installed SP1 right after the OS went in. Then again, my system is comprised mainly of older hardware, so MS has had some time to get it right with my stuff.

-aarmenaa

system spec:
MSI K7T Pro 2 (KT133 chipset)
AMD Thunderbird 1000
GeForce 2 MX 400
512 MB PC 133 SDR SDRAM
Promise Ultra 100 IDE Controller
Maxtor 30 GB 7200 RPM ATA 100
Maxtor 40 GB 5400 RPM ATA 100
IBM Deskstar 30 GB 7200 RPM ATA 100

[cwin]

I dont have the mentioned probs, but in my case XPSP1 came with the PC and on the disc that came with it - i dont know where to get a non SP1 disc - everywhere that sells them is SP1 now.

[Strawbs]

Originally posted by mpacey


I do not trust Microsoft's explanations when it comes to updates such as "Service Packs".

In most cases, it just gives their servers more control over one's O/S.

I believe currently they have 19 methods whereby they can influence one's XP O/S. That's the punchline right there! trouble is, my copy of XP has SP1 on the disk so i have no choice in the matter. If you remove or disable the spyware, it cries out for re-activation. :mad:

[Bigjakkstaffa]

I've only ever installed it on two systems, but never had a problem with it on either occasion

--Jakk:t

[Strawbs]

I don't have any problems with the running of the system, but this activation cr*p is really starting to get on my tit.

I've only activated online once and the second time (after a rebuild) it tells me I've activated too many times and I need to call them. One week after that, with no hardware changes made, Just a clean out of "spyware" entries, it says I have 3 days to activate and I have to call them again (too many activations). If it happens again, I'm going to download the "D O" edition, use my new key and a crack (which doesn't work with SP1). I have had enough. :mad:

[Dracas]

Never really had a problem with Windows XP SP1, but I bought the SP1 CD itself, rather than just downloading the 'update'. Updates are peculiar things, and sometimes like to update issues that don't need updating. Such is the case with SP1, but the SP1 CD is all neatly packed and tweaked at MS, before shipping - meaning they likely twiddled their thumbs away making sure it was a working OS with SP1 installed before packing it up in CABs on the CD and shipping it.

Same system, regular XP and using the SP1 Update from windowsupdate was a recipe for disaster, just to offer contrast. The cd version works fine, in comparison.

Weee!

Sorry. Haven't slept lately. )-|

[mpacey]

Originally posted by fishybawb


Care to "enlighten" us?

O.K., here is some enlightenment.

It took me awhile to find this Site again because lately I have not been well organized.

Anyway, I would like everyone to read this, and tell me what you think. (I mentioned 19 methods that Microsoft can control one's PC, but apparently it is only 16)

There is a lot of information; it took 24 pages to print it:

http://www.hevanet.com/peace/microsoft.htm

[mpacey]

Originally posted by Picard


Might we be a wee bit paranoid? You know, there are drugs available to treat that.

I do not believe it is appropriate to make personal comments within this forum.

If you need some information to understand what I am talking about, all you have to do is to go to this Site:

http://www.hevanet.com/peace/microsoft.htm

[omendata]

Take it easy - he was just injecting a bit of humour just proving that computer geeks have a sense of humour too!!!!

Hes obviously not an X-Files fan - "Trust no one"
Its a good rule of thumb!!!

Good article though.

[Comage]

Okay, so is SP1 a worthwhile installation, or should we wait for SP2?

[ngc457]

Anyone who thinks XP updates and service packs degrade performace or screws up things in any way shape or form is an idiot.

[Comage]

You can't really say for sure. Even those who say that it increases performance can't say for sure too. ;)

[2penguins]

Anyone who thinks XP updates and service packs degrade performace or screws up things in any way shape or form is an idiot.


jeez....now that's the sort of thing a TROLL would post....:rolleyes:

[omendata]

You obviously havent seen some of the security issues SP6 created with NTV4.

[mireland]

Originally posted by ngc457
Anyone who thinks XP updates and service packs degrade performace or screws up things in any way shape or form is an idiot.


Why it's the Microsoft/Bill Gates biggest fan again. I remember you.long time no see. :rolleyes:

[bushmaster]

Not to worry. NGC457 is a wintroll. Long time no see Shawn G.

[Comage]

Originally posted by Comage
Okay, so is SP1 a worthwhile installation, or should we wait for SP2?

Erm.. so can anybody answer my question? :(

[Billforce]

Originally posted by ngc457
Anyone who thinks XP updates and service packs degrade performace or screws up things in any way shape or form is an idiot.

And the POPE isn´t Polish?
The Titanic was a LITTLE accident?
One size fits all.
The check is in the mail.
I´m only going to have one drink.
Why, I´ve never done that before.

I would like to introduce you to about 4 million idiots then!

[mireland]

Originally posted by Comage


Erm.. so can anybody answer my question? :(

Well I don't think there is a straight answer..reading through this thread it seems everyone has had different results from one extreme to another...God don't you just LOVE Microshaft..er Microsoft.:eek:

[Aarmenaa]

Anyone who thinks XP updates and service packs degrade performace or screws up things in any way shape or form is an idiot.
And I suppose Microsoft is incapable of making mistakes. Bluescreens never happen, illegal operations are just a conspiricy, and there's no such thing as Linux, either.:rolleyes:

[mireland]

Originally posted by Aarmenaa

And I suppose Microsoft is incapable of making mistakes. Bluescreens never happen, illegal operations are just a conspiricy, and there's no such thing as Linux, either.:rolleyes:

oh God, Don't get him started on Linux again...:(

[omendata]

I take it NGC is the proverbial Little boy with the wooden spoon then?

Dont do it - SP1 is a nightmare - It might be running ok now - but you install an extra bit or try to use something in the future you've not used before and thats when the trouble starts - Ive heard outlook express has problems and it slows various stuff down - Apart from the obvious fact that it was deisgned to screw the pirates who knows what spyware it has installed?

Better to err on the side of caution - if your system is running ok then why fv%& with it?
:eek:

[Dracas]

Can I make a 'stupid' but absolutely true statement?

A computer is only as smart as its user.

Honestly, in all my years of computing - my system hasn't screwed up once, no matter what OS I was using - unless I was screwing with something I shouldn't have been, or did something stupid, like delete half the windows registry (intentionally, to see if Win98 could rebuild it, and surprise! it did...to a point....not pointy enough...ohwell, I reinstalled after that) hehe

Also, it may be a moot point, but if you buy components based on a reputation of durability (as apposed to extreme or other similar catch words), you might be surprised how long and well your system will run.

Its all a matter of the user and what they do to keep their systems clean, linux or MS, its all a bunch of stupid people pointing fingers because they don't know the first meaning of the word 'routine maintenance' (as shown by the pile of clothes in the laundry).

Computers are like cars, take care of them and they'll keep on humming. Doesn't matter what type of car it is, or what type of computer or OS

Get over yerselves people.

[omendata]

And your point is?

A bit illogical - if you buy a car and it isnt designed properly - I believe you yanks had problems with tyres on certain make of vehicle - you could still look after it well but it could still kill you.

The same applies to computers - as an ex machine code programmer I can tell you that several million lines of code contains more bugs than a CIA convention and is impossible to test 100% - Built in fallibility - impossible to remove! And as for adding and tweaking on bits and bobs to try and fix problems can just multiply them!!!

Most ordinary users are "computer challenged"

Just a thought!!!

[Dracas]

Yanks, I like that. ;)

Generally speaking, if I buy a car and the tires are **** quality, you can pretty much tell by looking or researching the tire brand, and you replace them.

As far as software goes, its the same way - if you have something that isn't working properly, you find the right driver, patch, or tweak and it does fine. If you stick to standards, then you won't have a problem.

Now if you toss it up like a fruit salad and theres no standard or quality in the components used, thats where you'll start seeing most of the problems with the software.

Windows isn't what I'd call '**** programming', its actually very good programming, stolen from multiple other sources, converged into one diety :p

Even linux has its issues (to the untrained, as well as some professionals) since theres no immediate standard (but grounds for improvement) it can be just as frustrating as using Windows. OS/2 Had the same issues, last I used it.

Ah the joys of the software world. But a fact remains fact, most of what a computer does is directly related to the user.

Sorta like the leading cause of death is life, its pretty straightforward :t

[omendata]

Nobody new about the tire situation until it was too late as far as I know.

Whats wrong with the word "Yanks" - Its an affectionate term for Americans - You may not be flavour of the month with the English but the Scots support you!!! Then again most of you lot are descended from us anyway BRO'

I never said it was **** programming but sticking bits and bobs together from various resources doesnt exactly follow top down development or minimize bugs does it? Although I have to say programming skills are not what they were - In my day programming computer games in machine code on a system with 16k you had to fit a pint intoi a quart pot - that led to invention, more rigorous testing suites - data compression algorithms , collage theorem , compressed table sprite routines , parallax scrolling etc Them were the days - Why do you think a Word processor that used to fit on half a floppy nows sits on a footprint of several megabytes - If you analyze it its actually quite laughable really!

You point is valid on the hardware side of things - you always pay for whats you get but with softWARE THATS AN ENTIRE DIFFERENT ISSUE - Microsoft have always tried to snafu other systems - Look at poor old Sun , Lotus Smartsuite , Netscape - Emminently better software than microsofts effort at one time. Why do you think a security patch is issued every other week?

[cbh]

Originally posted by mpacey


Yes, one should protect oneself from both.

Do simple things like disabling "automatic update."

I've done that! When I was using Win98 SE, I always put my OS on automatic update mode and it irritated me very often. Now I'm using WinXP Pro and I'll never put it to automatic update mode.

:t

[Strawbs]

Originally posted by Comage
Okay, so is SP1 a worthwhile installation, or should we wait for SP2? my advice would be to skip xp updates and install the security fixes you can find at places like grc.com (http://grc.com/intro.htm), and remove "Messenger" if you don't use it by using a product like XP Anti-Spy (http://www.xpantispy.de/).

:t

[cbh]

Originally posted by Strawbs
my advice would be to skip xp updates and install the security fixes you can find at places like grc.com (http://grc.com/intro.htm), and remove "Messenger" if you don't use it by using a product like XP Anti-Spy (http://www.xpantispy.de/).

:t

But can it stop the hackers??

:(

[muchmark]

SP1 is necessary for some people my friend has a Pinnacle Video Editing card and require SP1 to get it working, for me the only problem i noticed is it messed up Outlook Express and had to get another patch to fix that.

[rangeral]

IE and OE is your big hole in the sky, it should have been kept separate from windows to cutoff the tie in to a point, to me its not that important to be able to type a url in the windows explorer address bar or need to get to the net from within windows when it doesn't take any longer to open the browser.

If you allow IE thru your firewall you pretty much opened the door to windows as well.

98's sp wasn't too bad if I recall rite.

[Strawbs]

Originally posted by cbh


But can it stop the hackers??

:( There is lots of anti-hacking advice\tools and security fixes at Gibson Research Corporation, click the link I provided in my previous post and start researching.

:t

[Bigjakkstaffa]

But can it stop the hackers??

Nope, and nothing ever will, if a hacker REALLY wants to be into your system he/she will be no matter what you throw at him/her

--Jakk:t

[sm8000]

Wouldn't it be prudent to simply set a Restore Point, install SP1, and revert to that point if you find you need to?

[Slade54]

Hmm.....now doesnt that make sense.

Sounds like a plan, unless of course SP1 decides to burn all the bridges back to a normal XP. I wouldnt be surprised if that happened.

Throw it on a spare HD/Partition rather then using the restore feature i think would be smartest.

[sm8000]

My dad's Dell laptop has SP1 installed and System Restore works just fine. So it shouldn't be a problem unless it has been revised as such.

[Slade54]

Im not saying its gonna screw up the system restore.

Im saying it may change the last state of the system restore.

[Someone Stupid]

I d/led SP1 for pro and it caused some problems, which is why I stayed with 2000 for so long. A friend who used to own a computer shop had a bunch of free copies that only he could use (or give away, marked not for resale) that had XP with SP1 on it. I don't know what's different, but it seems to be a diffferent creature, one that I'll now run. Runs great IF you get SP1 with windows, ran horribly for me without it.

[Strawbs]

Originally posted by sm8000
Wouldn't it be prudent to simply set a Restore Point, install SP1, and revert to that point if you find you need to? from what i've read in other posts\forums... SP1 deletes restore points made prior to installation to stop pirates reverting to former setups, I believe it also writes an entry to the MBR for good measure, so if it screws your system it stays screwed unless you have seperate boot manager software (Linux\Acronis\Maxblast, etc.). :r

[Slade54]

Thats why i said keep the restore point on a seperate HD/partition, cuz SP1 i wouldnt be surprised would do thing like that.

I understand the need to stop pirates, but come on, there is also a point of excessive force.