Illegal to use a firewall?

[Eric Legge]

Hi all,

I've heard that many states in the US are seeking to make having a firewall installed illegal because interests involved in preventing piracy want to be able to access systems without hinderance to check for pirated material.

If it's true, are there any interesting developments in this story?

Because if this lunacy becomes law in the US, it won't be long before the same happens in the UK.

Eric,
http://www.legge40.freeserve.co.uk/BuyerBeware.htm

[Sterling_Aug]

They will have to rip my firewall/proxy from my cold dead fingers!!!

[Jgedeon]

Interesting reading.

http://www.freedom-to-tinker.com/superdmca.html

[AllGamer]

it's totally crazy if they do that

that can also means a Hacker and DOS attack heaven

and if that's true the FBI and IRS computers will be easy targets

not to mention free tax for everybody :r

:t

[bassman]

Originally posted by AllGamer
and if that's true the FBI and IRS computers will be easy targets :t
Well, probably it'll only be illegal for "home users" - the big fish will be enabled to keep using it (of course, we, simple people, don't need such a sophisticated thing; what's to protect from?). And maybe the next move will to remove locks from everybody's doors (except for government members and institutions, of course) so no one can conseal if they're recording soundtracks from the TV or something like that...

[Eric Legge]

Everyone should just ignore the law.

The courts won't be able to handle the number of cases, and the prisons won't be able to accommodate all of those who refuse to pay fines.

Because that kind of ban is a serious invasion of an individual's privacy in my book!

Eric,
http://www.legge40.freeserve.co.uk/BuyerBeware.htm

[omendata]

The INTERNET was built for freedom
itll never work for one - how will it be enforced
what about proxies etc
How many of the governments acts on internet legislation have really worked so far???
The hack/crack community will always have a fix
Look at DVD , mobile phones , wep
- secure ha

Keep yer hair on Eric , yer safe...

[cdroman]

Originally posted by Eric Legge
Hi all,

I've heard that many states in the US are seeking to make having a firewall installed illegal because interests involved in preventing piracy want to be able to access systems without hinderance to check for pirated material.

If it's true, are there any interesting developments in this story?

Because if this lunacy becomes law in the US, it won't be long before the same happens in the UK.

Eric,
http://www.legge40.freeserve.co.uk/BuyerBeware.htm

Check for pirated material?
They should know that virtually every home pc has some on it and leave it at that and save themselves the time and money. The people that make these rules have no concept of what goes on. It's also illegal to make copies of software and hack/crack software and we know that stopped everyone from doing it.)-|

[rick42]

a) this makes as much sense as removing seat belts from cars.
b) I have my own privacy.
c) I don't want to give up my machine to hackers.

[cwin]

If that law passes, no doubt you'd have some sneaky government employee looking at peoples personal documents and claming he was searching for pirated materials.

Most serious PC users will have some cracked software on their PC, but they normally have it on there for a good reason. Example - a student who needs to do an IT project at home, such as, building a website, but dream weaver costs $80. What will he do:

a) Go out and buy the software - add even more to his debts just for one measly project.

b)Download a cracked version and use it, just for that project.

I know somebody it happend to they already had the leagal software, but if they didn't they would have had to buy or crack it.
:D :confused: :mad: :cool:

[gjimene2]

I'll Second Sterlin. It will be a cold day in hell before they take my firewall off. And even then, I will be back in my thrown in hell to bring them down to an infinite torture.

[Nightblade]

Ha I find that very amusing, just how and the hell are they supposed to tell if you re using one?!?

A properly configured one, makes your computer virtually invisible

and being a former police ofc. I can't think of one extremely bored copper thats going to enforce this, but that doesn't rule out the FBI.

This will never happen, especially after the latest out of the courts on the BS of the digital copyright **** that the music industry and MPAA is whining about.

[gjimene2]

yep, plus you can have a spare hard drive with linux on it for the current system in storage, then when they want to investigate your pc, just put the current drive away and pop in the linux one and hide the other one really good. :D

[AllGamer]

if that really happens, i'll rather go back to the good old BBS :D :x

or easily setup multiple linux networks, in VM or whatever

and lose them in the jungle of VM inside VM inside VM inside VM and....

well you know the mirror effect :D :x

:t

[cwin]

Just think... there will be a new breed of software. Fakers! When somebody tries to access your pc, rather than listing the REAL contents of the drive, it lists FAKE contents of the drive, they will look just like a WinOS exept, no illegal stuff, no music, no craCKZ, NO WAREZ. And they will never know:t

[bahama llama]

I just wonder how they would find you? I have zonealarm pro and when I had a problem with Adelphia(my isp) they couldn't even find me and they knew my address and all my info! I doubt that the government could do much better, and anyway there is no way the government can beat the hacker community. If microsoft with all there money and knowledge can't keep people from hacking windows, how much better will the government fare?
:r :eek: Don.

[rick42]

and lose them in the jungle of VM inside VM inside VM inside VM and....


and who knows which mirror is the real mirror or the real image? Or was that another matrix?

[CrazyCrusher]

for one thing if there so worried about this pirate thing, why dont they just make a freckin software to shut down Kazaa and all the others, nope thats not good enough for them, they want in on our HDD's, hell know. And I would have to agree with you to dude, they would have to kill me b4 they make me take out my firewall, are they going to fix my credit when some fool steals my SS# and files BR on it, or give me the money back when a hacker gets my bank account details, or are the thinking that the bank is going to do that. thats why I dont think it will pass, banks would have to be worried to big time, not only us.

[almhuss]

I've read the bills listed in the Electronic Frontier Foundation website listed in the thread. They all seem to deal with theft of cable TV signals, and making use of a pirate descrambler illegal.

It is doubtful that the states could pass laws regarding the content of the internet, or prohibit the use of firewalls. The so-called "dormant" commerce clause (U.S. Const. Art. I, Sec. 8) reserves the right to regulate interstate commerce instrumentalities to the federal government. At least one case, out of the U.S. District Court for the Southern District of New York, has ruled that way. (I have the citation in the office, and can post it later if people ask for it.)

So, while I realize that no man's life or property is safe while the legislature is in session, I think the rumor of pending legislation to ban firewalls is an urban myth.:)

[bushmaster]

How they know your on-line is they see a large data stream happily marching off into your computer. They know by the size and signature of the datastream what your downloading. How does the data know how to get to our PC or router ?, easy the IP address provided us by our ISP's. You might think Oh I'll use a proxy. They can still follow it.
Wether you like it or not if the powers that be want in they are coming in. If your worried about your personal data, encrypt it and keep the key on seperate media. If your worried about getting popped for pirated software or commercially recorded music, don't have any on your machine, and don't download any.
You might think "well everybody downloads cracked warez". No everybody doesn't download "warez". You can look at it this way. Would you steal your neighbors newspaper from them just because you don't wan't to pay or it ?. People say "that's not the same thing because I wouldn't steal from my neighbor, I'm stealing from a big company that overcharges for their software to begin with". Yes this is true they do tend to charge alot for their software, and in part it's to cover for the amount that gets pirated, and your neighbor has to pay the higher cost because of your pirating.

So in short, don't pirate, encrypt your sensitive data, and the powers that be won't give a rats **** if you are running a hardware/software firewall cause your not using it to hide anything nefarious.

Me personally ?, I gave up the illusion of privacy on the internet years ago. Somebody want's in bad enough and are savy enough do get in, guess what ?, they're in already.

[cdroman]

Yeah if they want in they will get there. You just make it as inconvenient as you can, so they skip you and move to easier targets. Most anonymous proxies still show your address right along behind the anonymous address and you are not as anonymous as you think.

[Eric Legge]

I've heard that it's possible to log on directly to the Internet (without using an ISP), so how do you do it, and would that be a way of being less visible?

You would still need an IP address, but you wouldn't have an ISP logging your every move.

Bill Gates isn't the richest man in the world for nothing. If Microsoft were charging a fair price for software, he would be a lot less rich.

He's that rich because of Microsoft not having any competition for Windows and other software, such as MS Office.

Eric,
http://www.legge40.freeserve.co.uk/BuyerBeware.htm

[AllGamer]

the only way to be more or less "invisible"

is to hack into the sprint network, or UUNET (MCI)

but still, they are an "isp" of an sort, all cable/dsl, and 56k ISP has to go through them, either of them.

so if you want a "direct" connection, i'll be through them

unless you can hack direct into a Gov line, or up a Sat link

and well i can't go into details as of how, cuz i don't wanna get banned ;)

:D:t

[omendata]

Oh there are other ways of logging on directly but all are illegal but think extenders and telephone exchanges and you'd be on the right track.

[GJGJR12]

Everyone should just ignore the law.

CAN I GET AN AMEN!?!?!?

lol

[Slade54]

Just ignore that law?

That is the stupidest thing ever. And that is the very reason people even try to get laws like these passed. Because they know ppl will complain, but few will actually get up and fight it.

Just ignoring it HELPS them.

What we really need to do is start a petition saying we do not want this passed.

How many ppl are registered at this site? 35k give or take? Plus all the other tech forums?

We can easily brake the 100k signature if we get several tech sites to cooperate together, and pull a petition together.

The people high up on the hierarchy of this website, is it possible? If so, i suggest we all start some emailing. At this site and others.

[omendata]

Fraid Slade is right - I used to ignore the law too until I got busted by a certain banking institution - My fault for being careless but Ive learned the lesson.....If you are going to ignore the law make sure you have a plan!!!

Petitions etc are the best way but does anyone really believe in the law these days , right and justice seem to be a bygone age.

Seems like we are just sliding nice and easy into Big Brother 1994 style and their aint a lot we can do cos lets face it the vast majority of the public are selfish , lazy , dumb asses , noone can be bothered and revolution is an outmoded concept to most.

[Strawbs]

...and any ***** sticking it's nose where it don't belong deserves a good ***** whooping!

I'm sure there is already some form of virtual shotgun out there that blows the virtual face off any virtual body that pokes their virtual head around the virtual door, It's just a case of finding it.

:t

[omendata]

Some people like a good ***** WHOPPING!!!

Nudge nudge wink wink
:-@

[GrowingSlowly]

Seems to me that hacking someones computer would be the illegal act. Having a firewall is like having a deadbolt on your front door.

On a side note. Do any of the free firewalls out there actually do an adaquate job???

[GJGJR12]

i tihnk some of you are blowing this out of proportion. think about when they were about to shut napster down. "the world changed forever" NO! there is always ways around everything as i am sure most of you know:x

[Slade54]

The free version of Zonealarm is pretty good for most peoples needs.

And GJGJR12, like i said before, that is a stupid way to handle things. That only helps them get things done the way they want it to.

[GJGJR12]

i don;t understand how that is?

[Slade54]

Not doing anything, and just ignoring it thinking that it will all work itself out helps them because no one opposes anything that they do.

That means they can do anything they want. And by time you finally realize that your screwed, its too late.

[GJGJR12]

i see your point, and if someone was to come up with a petition i;d be glad to give it a go, but i have never seen people power outweigh anything large liek that

[Slade54]

It takes a large amount of people, but it does have an effect.

[genesound]

It'll never happen... It'd be like a law forcing you to keep your house unlocked with all your property prominately displayed just on the off chance you might have a stolen dvd in there. Even if it got through congress, the courts would laugh. Besides there's no firewall like an on-off switch and they sure can't make you stay online :eek:

[cwin]

They couldn't take zonealarm off of me! My internet connection litarally wont work without it:D

[Slade54]

crazier stupider laws have been passed. And with less savvy lawers then what the RIAA and the MPAA have. I wouldnt just dismiss it.

Ill check into getting a petition started sometime later today.

Need to email lots of people first.

[Jgedeon]

Originally posted by GrowingSlowly
Seems to me that hacking someones computer would be the illegal act. Having a firewall is like having a deadbolt on your front door.

On a side note. Do any of the free firewalls out there actually do an adaquate job???

In the US it is an illegal act. Most doors in the US do have deadbolts. So all networks should have firewalls.

As for free firewalls I like Smoothwalls versions.

[AllGamer]

for FREE firewalls i suggest the LINUX ROUTER PROJECT http://leaf.sourceforge.net/

:t

[Paco103]

I'm just waiting for the day that we have a "Virtual" Boston Tea Party. They're are already people that have severely crippled the primary internet DNS servers for a short period of time - and the day I see in the news that all of hollywood's or any other gov or corp branches that are pushing this kind of BS nonsense around, when I see that all of those computers have been knocked out. . . .then real tea party in my field!!! BYOB/BYOT.

They can take me to court and ruin my future in the computer industry - but I got my license and can easily go back to driving a truck! No way are they getting the key to my back door, nor will I leave it open!

[Jgedeon]

Originally posted by Paco103
They can take me to court and ruin my future in the computer industry - but I got my license and can easily go back to driving a truck! No way are they getting the key to my back door, nor will I leave it open!

Truck it up!!!!!