Al-Jazeera TV broadcasting US POW interviews.

[Bill in SD, CA]

In direct violation of the Geneva convention, Iraqi TV has interviewed wounded American POWs for propaganda purposes. Even to the point of forcing one injured American to raise his head to answer questions.

Also showed footage of what was purportedly bodies of dead US servicemen and women in a morgue.

:( :( :(

Prayers to them!

Bill

edit

Pentagon saying bodies appear to have been executed. FOX refusing to air.

[cbh]

WHAT? US POWs? I thought there is nobody caught by the Iraqis. My local news agencies don't report any icnident on US POWs.

:confused:

[excelscior]

I'm here in California. Channel 34 a spanish network broadcast the entire scene including the dead soldiers faces. Only televised it once in the morning around 7am. 6 hours later that same channel was blaming Arab TV for being so disrespectful to the families of the dead for running it all day! What hipocrits:eek: !!!! I'm sure someone in goverment called that network and told them NOT to run that anylonger! Or they would be no better than their Arab counterparts. Shame on you channel 34 and your lousy jounalist for being 2 faced and greedy:mad: Hope your channel loses revenue for being disrespectful to all the families and friends of those you flaunted on your network:mad:!!!!!!! Next time be more respectful to our fallen comrades:(

[SlightlyDementd]

Sad, very sad...May they find eternal peace.

"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing."
Edmund Burke (1729–1797), Irish philosopher, statesman.

-SD-:( :( :(

[bushmaster]

Possibly the ones who were executed are the lucky ones. During the last conflict the Iraqi's were torturing and raping both the female and male POW's.

[Spardan]

Interesting that the Geneva convention is brought up now it suits... not much mention of it before the war started... strange...

[Bigjakkstaffa]

ALthouhg the US is rather selective with certain Geneva Protocols, the treatment of these prisoners in such a way is unnaceptable, having said that given what we know about Iraq, it was not to be unexpected either sadly :(

--Jakk:t

[Bill in SD, CA]

Originally posted by Spardan
Interesting that the Geneva convention is brought up now it suits... not much mention of it before the war started... strange...

HUH!!??

[wallie_x]

Lt. Worf on Star Trek TNG used to curse the Romulans and say, " They are without honor!" I think I'm beginning to feel and understand what he might have been trying to express. As I watch this war unfold, I can honestly say that nowhere in the world is such cowardice and slimy low life underhandedness exemplified as in the Middle East.
(And that’s putting it mildly)

[Optimus Prime]

Originally posted by wallie_x
Lt. Worf on Star Trek TNG used to curse the Romulans and say, " They are without honor!" I think I'm beginning to feel and understand what he might have been trying to express. As I watch this war unfold, I can honestly say that nowhere in the world is such cowardice and slimy low life underhandedness exemplified as in the Middle East.
(And that’s putting it mildly)

I agree... I was sickened at the Iraqi's for what they did to those POW's, and to our journalist.

[2penguins]

Ok, it's time for you bunch of Anti-war, Anti- American wankers to put up or shut up.

Where has the US, UK or Australia violated the Geneva convention?

OK Arseoles, put up or shut the hell up....:mad:

[vitto]

ok so what about those afghani warriors locked up in some camp on an island without any rights whatsoever?
HAHAHAHA! got ya!
:-@ :r

[2penguins]

Nope, they are not POWs. They don't have the protection of the US Consititution either because they are not US citizens or actually inside the US. Call it a technical dirty trick if you want, but they they have no protections under the Geneva convention.


Try again.:rolleyes:

[cbh]

How come the news agencies can film all the Iraqi POWs before the US POWs are captured? I don't understand. The Iraqi government doesn't complain about the filming of their POWs. How come the US complains when their POWs are filmed? Weird!

:confused:

[2penguins]

Filming POWs isn't nessesarly wrong, but parading prioners in front of a camera in a humilitaing fashion is serously wrong.

[strat1]

Originally posted by Spardan
Interesting that the Geneva convention is brought up now it suits... not much mention of it before the war started... strange... Not sure how you were trying to enlighten us with your pontification, can you explain what you meant? Are you defending the Iraqi soldiers? Shooting POWs in the head from a foot away is not listed in the Geneva Convention as the correct way to treat POWs. Beating them and them showing them on World TV in that situation is wrong.
Not letting the Red Cross in to see them is wrong too!

PS, Warf was such a bad *****- thanks for bringing up that quote because it was right on target! Honor and war do go hand/in hand! The Iraqi Army are Cowards, The coalition Forces should now shoot first and ask questions later!

Incase you want the Truth about the Geneva Convention relative to the Treatment of Prisoners of War (http://193.194.138.190/html/menu3/b/91.htm)

[vitto]

war/honour is as far away from eachother as
you and your brain! That's also alot of american patriotic bull****..god i get tired of it.

[rubdfsh2?]

I see it this way.

Eventually, the Iraqi government will get what they desire.

That being massive civilian casualties. The coalition forces have played nice and limited damage to the civilian facilities and populace.

If the coalition starts taking more POWs and losses, I feel the targets will become less scrutinized.

[strat1]

Originally posted by vitto
war/honour is as far away from eachother as
you and your brain! That's also alot of american patriotic bull****..god i get tired of it.

If you misunderstood what I meant, I may not have been clear.
There are rules to war- to not follow them is a dishonorable!
You live in Finland huh, I heard that is a nice place to visit

That's also alot of american patriotic bull That was an ignorant statement, but that’s nothing new.
It is usually the US/UK/AUS vs. the jealous world.


PS – The Argument is always in the US Wrong , Not the ATROSITIES that Saddam and IRAQI Soldiers are committing-

Finland huh, :r :r :r :D

[2penguins]

You may not like it, but Americans really are proud to be Americans!:-@

I see you are from Finland

You have my deepest sympathies.. :t

[vitto]

Yes, I know americans are proud,
perhaps too proud to be able to be critical?
I don't know, but I'm sure that the americans that live in europe doesn't share the same entusiasm to go to war as the ones that live in usa.
So I guess the propagandamachinery is quite big over there.

well, we should postpone all these discussions till the war's been finished. then we can discuss who was right and who was wrong.
as for your condolences, keep them for yourselves! you might need them yet!


:cool:

[Bill in SD, CA]

Originally posted by cbh
How come the news agencies can film all the Iraqi POWs before the US POWs are captured? I don't understand. The Iraqi government doesn't complain about the filming of their POWs. How come the US complains when their POWs are filmed? Weird!

:confused:

HUGE DIFFERENCE!!

How many wounded Iraqi soldiers have you seen being forced to conduct TV interviews? How many dead Iraqis have you seen U.S. troops propping up and "pose" with on TV?

Filming a surrender is a lot different than the "pulling the wings of off a fly" methods employed by Iraq.

Bill

[strat1]

Originally posted by vitto
Yes, I know Americans are proud, perhaps too proud to be able to be critical? Thats Like me saying all people from Finland like to eat Cheese and are Lazy…
I know that is not true, nor would I ever say that cause it is Ignorant! [i]but I'm sure that the Americans that live in europe doesn't share the same entusiasm to go to war as the ones that live in USA [/B]
How in God's name could you make a statement like that.
Why not just tell us what you think instead of guessing what Europeans or Americans think. It is useless.

oh yea, How do you get the holes in the Swiss Cheese?:x :x

[Optimus Prime]

Air bubbles aren't they.

Strat1... Don't act like the stereotypical american, please.

Finland is in scandanavia, next to Norway and Sweden.

Switzerland is next to austria and germany.

Swiss = Switzerland

How is eating cheese a Finnish trait?

[strat1]

Originally posted by strat1
Thats Like me saying all people from Finland like to eat Cheese and are Lazy… I know that is not true, nor would I ever say that cause it is Ignorant!

Optimus Prime, don't act like a moron! look what I wrote

nor would I ever say that cause it is Ignorant!
GET IT-


Thanks for the Geography lesson, helpful!

[jmichna]

Originally posted by vitto
war/honour is as far away from eachother as
you and your brain! That's also alot of american patriotic bull****..god i get tired of it. vitto,
Here's an interesting thread for you, in the event you missed it:

http://www.sysopt.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=133747

[jmichna]

Originally posted by vitto
war/honour is as far away from eachother as
you and your brain! That's also alot of american patriotic bull****..god i get tired of it. Here is Finland's WWII timeline, exerpted to focus on the political aspects:

Warning, long post - Part I of Three Parts:
December
30 Nov 1939 Soviet Army attacks Finland on all fronts with army....

1 Dec 1939 Puppet government installed by Stalin in Terijoki... this 'Democratic Government of Finland' has no support in Finland.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
January
29 Jan 1940 Molotov says that Soviet Union is ready to discuss peace.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
February
12 Feb 1940 Finnish government receives terms of peace from Soviet government.

29 Feb 1940 Finnish government decides to start peace talks after a vote of 17-3.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
March
6 Mar 1940 Soviets agree to start talks, delegation under prime minister Ryti heads for Moscow.

13 Mar 1940 Peace signed at night in Moscow. Firing ceases on all fronts at 11:00. Troops begin to retreat to new borders. About 21000 Finnish servicemen were killed or missing in the Winter War.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The Uneasy Peace 13th March 1940 - 25th June 1941
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Finland lost in the Winter War Carelia and Salla regions and rented Hanko to the Soviet Union for 50 years. 420000 inhabitants left their homes and had to be resettled into the remaining part of the Finland. Severe peace terms were a hard blow and the nation was bitter towards Soviet Union. There was all the time a threat of a renewed attack by the Soviet Union. Armed forces were kept at high levels of readiness and had more men than normally in peacetime. Army consisted of 12 brigades and special units (cavalry , tank battalion, etc) at this time. Finland tried to seek protection from the Germany, because France and Britain were defeated in the summer of 1940. Hitler was more willing to deal with Finns than earlier, since he decided in August 1940 to get the Soviet Union done in the next summer and he tried to get allies. There was a secret draft in Finland in order to get volunteers for a Finnish SS-battalion. Battalion was formed and it was part of the 5th SS-Panzergrenadierdivision 'Wiking'. Also Hitler refused to let the Soviets to deal finally with Finland, when Molotov asked Hitler's opinion on that matter in November 1940. Finns granted also a permission for German troops to traverse through the Finnish territory to the occupied Northern Norway. Finland mobilised her army on the 17th June in anticipation of German attack on Soviet Union or Soviet a attack on Finland. But 22th June when Germans attacked, Finland declared neutrality, though German planes had refueled in Finnish airbases when they returned from bombing Leningrad and German troops were ready to attack Murmansk in the Arctic. Russians bombed many towns on 25th June , and president Ryti stated that Finland is at war again. Finland's aims of the war were to get back areas lost in the Winter War and to get good positions to negotiate peace if Germans can't destroy the Soviet Union. Finns never considered themselves as Germany's allies, but as a co-belligerent waging own war with our goals.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The Continuation War 25th June 1941 - 4th September 1944
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1941
25 Jun 1941 Soviet air force bombs Finnish towns. President Ryti declares that Finland is at war again to defend herself.

29 Jun 1941 Local Finnish attacks along the border begin. German Gebirgskorps Norwegen (2nd & 3rd Gebirgsdivisions) with Finnish Independent Detachment Petsamo under German AOK Norwegen start an offensive against Murmansk.

30 Jun 1941 Mannerheim establishes Carelian Army (Karjalan Armeija, KarA) to organise offensive in the northern Carelia. The Army has 2 Corps, the VI and VII and Group O, which are composed of 5 divisions, 2 jaeger brigades and a cavalry brigade. Army has also one German division , 163rd, in reserve.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1 Jul 1941 German XXXVI Corps (169th, SS Nord and Finnish 6th Divisions) start to attack in the Salla sector aiming to cut Murmansk railroad. III Corps crosses border in Uhtua sector.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
19 Sep 1941 German 169th and Finnish 6th Divisions take defensive positions in Verma River. Idea of cutting the Murmansk railroad in Kandalaksha sector is given up.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
8 Nov 1941 Germans take Tikhvin south of Finnish positions along Svir. Finns make no attempt to achieve contact with Germans since it would have meant surrender of Leningrad.

11 Nov 1941 Attack in Kestenga is halted by secret order of Finnish GHQ, because it is consired not wise to irritate Western allies by cutting the Murmansk railroad.

22 Nov 1941 Stalin presents a plan to the British to pull the Finland out of the war. British gave Finland two weeks time to cease offensive operations or Britain will declare war on Finland.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
6 Dec 1941 Britain and Canada declare war on Finland. Russian start attacking Germans near Moscow ending German offensive.

8 Dec 1941 4th Division takes defensive positions alogn southern part of Maaselkä Isthmus. Good defensive positions have been reached on all directions and Marshal Mannerheim & president Ryti decide not to continue attack towards White Sea, because it has become politically unwise, since it has become probable that Germans will lose the war and the US has threatened to declare war if Finns cut the supply of Lend and Lease equipment by taking Archangelsk.

1942
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
24 Apr 1942 An attack by three divisions is launched in Kestenga by the enemy against Fenno-German forces of Division J and SS-Division Nord.

25 Apr 1942 Finnish counterattacks destroy last Russian units in Svir.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
5 May 1942 German 163th Division leaves Svir front and joins the German troops in Lapland.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
4 Jun 1942 Marshal Mannerheim's 75th birthday. Hitler visits Finland.... Finnish army, which normally doesn't allow any alcohol to be used in service (unlike other armies of WWII), offers drinks to men. Mannerheim is promoted to the rank of Marshal of Finland. He is the only officer in the Finnish Defense Forces who has ever been promoted to this rank.

22 Jun 1942 Italian detachment of torpedo boats arrives to Lake Ladoga.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
4 Jul 1942 Germans troops take over the front in Kestenga.

19 Jul 1942 Finnish artillery destroys tunnel that enemy (Allies) has been digging under the Finnish trenches at Svir.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
15 Aug 1942 Italian torpedo boats sink Russian gunboat.

18 Aug 1942 Remnants of 1st Partisan Brigade cross the frontline at Jolmajärvi. Only 120 partisans make it back to their own side.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
6 Sep 1942 Patrol Boat 13 sinks an enemy (Allied) submarine.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
12 Oct 1942 Patrol boats sink an enemy submarine.

21 Oct 1942 Enemy (Allied) submarine S-7 is sunk, this time by Finnish submarine Vesihiisi.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
5 Nov 1942 Submarine Vetehinen rams Shtsh-305. Russian submarine sinks.

6 Nov 1942 8 Jewish refugees, who don't have citizenship of any country and are accused of spying, are given to Germans. These are the only Jews that are surrendered to Germans by Finns.

18 Nov 1942 Three Finnish motor torpedo boats sink enemy (Allied) gunboat Krasnoye Znamya.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
12 Dec 1942 HQ supply department reports that average 464 Finnish servicemen were killed per day in 1941 and 59 in 1942.

[jmichna]

1943
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
18 Jan 1943 Russians put an end to the siege of Leningrad.

31 Jan 1943 Germans surrender in Stalingrad. Finnish leadership is now sure that Germany will lose the war and starts to think how to make peace with Allies.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
15 Feb 1943 Marshal Mannerheim states for the first time openly that he won't order any offensive operations anymore. Earlier he had promised to attack after Germans have taken Leningrad. Germans have been putting hard pressure to Finnish leadership throughout the 1942 to cut the Lend and Lease supply route. USA has on the other hand threatened to declare war if Finns try to stop Lend and Lease shipments. Ryti is elected for the president of the republic for the second term.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
13 Mar 1943 Finland receives first Messerschmitt Bf-109-G2 fighters.

20 Mar 1943 United States offers to act as an agent between Soviet Union and Finland in preparing the peace.

24 Mar 1943 Molotov gives to the US government the terms of peace with Finland. They include borders of 1940, war against Germany and reparations. US government doesn't transmit terms to Finns, because it considers terms too harsh.

26 Mar 1943 Foreign Minister Ramsay tells to German Foreign Minister Ribbentrop about plans for peace. Ribbentrop gets furious.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
10 Apr 1943 Plans for peace are abandoned. German position is still too strong to make a separate peace. Public opinion in Finland would never accept peace terms that Soviets had proposed.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1 Jun 1943 Finnish SS-bataillon returns to Finland and is disbanded.

5 Jul 1943 Last German major offensive of the Eastern Front in Kursk begins.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
3 Sep 1943 Italy surrenders.

21 Sep 1943 Swedish Stockholms Tidningen publishes an article received from London which states that Soviet terms of peace to Finland are: 1) driving the Germans out of the country, b) replacing the present government with a more democratic one (Finnish government was democratic at the time, "democratic" means government with Communists) c) territorial claims.

28 Sep 1943 Hitler gives General Order #50 which includes plans Tanne Ost and Tanne West, the taking of Aland and Suursaari if Finland makes a separate peace.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
14 Oct 1943 General Jodl from OKW says that Finland has no other choice but continue fighting or get destroyed.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
3 Nov 1943 London says that Finland is an Axis power and the principle of unconditional surrender applies also to Finland.

10 Nov 1943 Ambassador Litvinov says in Moscow that the principle of unconditional surrender does not include Finland.

29 Nov 1943 Finland leaves an offer for peace based on borders of 1939. Soviet Union doesn't want to discuss the peace on these terms.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1 Dec 1943 Finland is discussed on the last day of the conference in Teheran. Stalin says that although Finland have committed as cruel acts against Russians as Germans, she deserves to be taken into account, since she had fought so bravely for her independence.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1944
14 Jan 1944 Soviet armies finally lift the siege of Leningrad. Finnish front in the Carelian Isthmus is exposed for an attack.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
6 Feb 1944 Mannerheim says to the president Ryti that it is very important to make peace now. First large scale bombing attack on Helsinki begins on the night. 103 killed, 350 bombs hit the center of town and 2500 hit the countryside. Five enemy bombers shot down. Purpose of attacks is to make Finland ready for peace.

26 Feb 1944 Last and largest attack on Helsinki. Over 1000 flights are reported. 18 killed, 350 bombs hit the center of the city and nearly 10000 hit the countryside. 12 bombers shot down. Finnish AA-forces using modern German radars, German-made 88mm guns and decoy fires have saved Helsinki from the fate of the German cities.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1 Mar 1944 Soviets publicly announce the terms for peace.

26 Mar 1944 Delegates Paasikivi and Enckell fly to Moscow, where Molotov gives them exact peace proposals.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
11 Apr 1944 Finland receives first modern AT-weaponry from Germany, 1700 Panzerfausts and 300 Panzerschrecks.

14 Apr 1944 Finnish government decides not to accept peace terms.

18 Apr 1944 Hitler bans export of arms to Finland, because Finland had tried to negotiate peace.

28 Apr 1944 Stalin signs the order to carry out the 4th strategic attack of 1944 against Finland.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
3 May 1944 Commander of the Leningrad Front, General Meretskov has finished a plan of attack against Finland.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
7th Jun 1944 The 21st Army is ready for attack in Carelian Isthmus. Date is set to 9th June.

Static phase of the Continuation War is over.

16 Jun 1944 Germany begins to deliver modern weapons.

17 Jun 1944 Order is given to retreat to 'VKT'-line. German Luftwaffe detachment Kuhlmey (70 planes, Fw-190 and Ju-87) arrives to Finland. 6th Division is ordered to move to the Isthmus. Finnish forces leave Svir in secrecy.

19 Jun 1944 Mannerheim asks additional help from Germany. 20th Brigade takes up defensive positions in Viborg. German planes from Detachment Kuhlmey take part in action over Finland for the first time and bring down 24 enemy planes.

21 Jun 1944 Finland asks terms for peace via Sweden. Enemy attack by 7th Army in Svir sector begins. First German weapon shipments arrive to Finland.

22 Jun 1944 Soviet Union replies that only unconditional surrender is accepted.

26 Jun 1944 President Ryti makes an agreement with Ribbentrop, in which he declares that he will not start negotiating peace without acceptance from Germany.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
12 Jul 1944 Soviet Union informs the Swedish that it is willing to discuss peace with Finland.

31 Jul 1944 President Ryti resigns so that peace negotiations may be started. Marshal Mannerheim is nominated as new president by the Eduskunta (parliament).

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
20 Aug 1944 Hitler gives Oak Leaf of the Knight's Cross of the Iron Cross to the Mannerheim.

29 Aug 1944 Soviets inform that they will receive Finnish delegation.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1 Sep 1944 Mannerheim sends a letter to Stalin, in which he proposes an armistice to end bloodshedding.

2 Sep 1944 Eduskunta accepts armistice terms with votes 108-45. Diplomatic relations with Germany are cut, and all Germans troops are required to withdraw by the 15th September, or they will be interned and given to Soviet Union as POW's

3 Sep 1944 Mannerheim orders 6th Division and 15th Brigade to be moved to Northern Finland. Hitler orders to start Operation Birke, the evacuation of 20. Gebirgsarmee from Finland to Norway.

4 Sep 1944 Stalin accepts armistice. Finnish GHQ issues order to cease fire at 7:00. Soviets continue to fire all the day using some 19500 artillery shells. 20 Finnish servicemen are killed. Finnish fighters shoot down one enemy bomber. German Sturmgeschütz-Brigade 303 leaves Finland. GHQ orders the evacuation of Finland north of 68th latitude.

5 Sep 1944 All arms are silent by 7:00. The Continuation War is over.

[jmichna]

The Lapland War (15th) September 1944 - 27th April 1945
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
7 Sep 1944 Finnish peace delegation arrives to Moscow.

8 Sep 1944 First German troops start to retreat in Kestenga sector.

14 Sep 1944 Finnish delegation starts negotiations on interim peace. Germans lay mines in the Gulf of Finland.

18 Sep 1944 Germans and Finns make an agreement concerning how Germans will leave Finland. This prevents all battles until October.

19 Sep 1944 Interim peace is signed in Moscow. Troops begin to withdraw to borders of 1940. Other terms include reparations for the sum of U$ 300 million, demobilization of armed forces and allowing the Communist Party to operate in Finland. Final peace is signed in 1947 in Paris.

22 Sep 1944 First members of Allied Control Commission arrive in Helsinki. Soviets take Tallinn, the capital of Estonia.

28 Sep 1944 First actual battle between Finns and the Wehrmacht in Pudasjärvi.

29 Sep 1944 Last Finnish troops leave Soviet Union. Porkkala area is given to Russians.

30 Sep 1944 Soviets demand active war against Germans.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
2 Oct 1944 Germans counterattack in Tornio and battle rages for four days, then Germans leave. Foreign correspondents and Swedish civilians watch the battle on the other side of the River Tornionjoki in neutral Sweden.

3 Oct 1944 Hitler issues order that 20. Gebirgsarmee will evacuate Finland and retreat to Norway.

7 Oct 1944 15th Brigade and Detachment P take town of Kemi. Finns find a German liqueur storage, and attack is halted until storage is empty. Soviets launch a major attack in Petsamo and take nickel mines, which have been the main reason for keeping the strong German army in the northern Finland. Mines were producing 80 % of nickel required by German war industries.

9 Oct 1944 11th Division begins advance along Swedish border.

10 Oct 1944 Town of Rovaniemi, the capital of Lapland, is completely destroyed by Germans.

13 Oct 1944 Germans issue the order to destroy everything in Lapland.

16 Oct 1944 Finns reach the ruins of Rovaniemi.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1 Nov 1944 Demobilization of army to peacetime levels begins according to the terms of the interim peace. This begins to hamper the action against Germans.

6 Nov 1944 Advance in north-west Finland stops in front of strong German defense line. No real attacks can be attempted since unit stregths are decreasing rapidly because of the demobilization. Soon only 1st Division is pushing the Germans to Norway. Combat value of the the division is low and it waits until Germans leave voluntarily.

12 Nov 1944 Sales of alcohol is banned in Finland until 6th December, so that the demobilized soldiers can't make trouble.

14 Nov 1944 Central Council of Finnish Jews issues a statement that freedom and rights of the Finnish Jews have not been violated in any way during the war. 352 Jews fought in the Continuation War and 23 were killed in action.

18 Nov 1944 Germans leave the northernmost tip of Finland.

22 Nov 1944 Soviets return first batch of POW's.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
5 Dec 1944 Demobilization is complete, the army, navy and airforce combined strength is 37000 men (it's even now approximately of same size). Largest army in the history of Finland is history now.

31 Dec 1944 Mannerheim gives up the command of Finnish defense forces.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1945

6 Jan 1945 National dance-ban is lifted. It has been illegal to dance during the wartime.

10 Jan 1945 German 7. Gebirgsdivision retreats from it's positions in Lätäseno. Only a very small portion of Finland is still in German hands.

12 Jan 1945 General Heinrichs is appointed to the post of the commander of Finnish defense forces.

25 Apr 1945 Last Germans withdraw to Norway. Two infantrymen are killed in the last clash of the Second World War in Finland.

27 Apr 1945 Last shots are fired in the Finnish territory.

28 Apr 1945 Commander of the III Corps, General Siilasvuo reports that the mission of Puolustusvoimat is complete. Second World War is over for Finland.

Info from : http://personal.inet.fi/private/hovi.pages/sa-int/hist.html

[Bigjakkstaffa]

Talking of atrocities, out in Basra theres been a popular uprising by the iraqi people, who have been promptly fired upon by the Iraqi military.. nice :eek:

--Jakk:t

[SlightlyDementd]

vitto,
I find it simply amazing how you have managed to take this thread describing the abhorrent behavior used against American P.O.W's and turn it into an anti-Americanism rant.
The execution and public exploitation of those American P.O.W's transcends all political/religious beliefs. It's about humanity and the lack of consideration thereof by a regime that has total disregard for human life.Originally posted by vitto war/Honor is as far away from eachother as
you and your brain! That's also alot of american patriotic bull****..god i get tired of it. To criticize American patriotism in the same thread that we express our grief and outrage over the treatment/death and mutilation of our brave young men and women is not only ignorant it's disrespectful.

Regardless of your insensitive remarks, I still respect your right of freedom of speech. However, may I suggest that you start another thread which would be a more appropriate place to spew your Anti-Americanism philosophy. Which btw is evident in the majority of your posts.

-SD-

[vitto]

"To criticize American patriotism in the same thread that we express our grief and outrage over the treatment/death and mutilation of our brave young men and women is not only ignorant it's disrespectful."

okokok. I guess I've made my stand clear now anyway.
I apologize to everyone i've offended in that process!
perhaps that was unneccessary.
:t