M$ Longhorn in 2004

[dragflameson]

What do you all think about Microsofts new operating system named Longhorn?

Personaly I can't wait! I get to fool around on the beta version soon also! My friends father knows a Microsoft salesman so I'll get to go over there and try it out after they get their hands on it!


For those of you who haven't heard anything yet:

Friday, November 29, 2002

Next Microsoft operating system will be radical change from XP

By DAN RICHMAN
SEATTLE POST-INTELLIGENCER REPORTER

Windows XP has been on the market for a year now, so naturally everyone is clamoring for details on the next version of the world's most popular operating system -- or so Microsoft Corp. hopes.

Details are dribbling out, but Microsoft won't say a word on the record, declining to comment for this story. Analysts and software developers haven't been briefed, either.

But here's what has leaked out so far.

The next version of the world's most popular desktop operating system, code-named "Longhorn," is due out in test form next year and in final form in 2004. It will have a new look and feel, very different from Windows XP's. Its guts will also be radically different from Windows XP's, because they're based on XML -- extensible markup language, the emerging lingua franca of the Internet. And it will be the first version that won't function fully without new hardware.

"With the possible exception of Windows NT, which was a change from the ground up, this could be the biggest change ever" to Windows, said Giga analyst Rob Enderle.

Observers believe that Longhorn will:


Create a new file system that replaces FAT, FAT32 (an acronym for File Allocation Table) and even the newer NTFS (the Windows NT file system), the most modern ways of storing data in Windows. To make life easier for computer users, it will simplify locating data by using the file name or content, regardless of whether data is contained in a spreadsheet, a word-processing document or an e-mail. After-market products do this now, but they impose a performance penalty.

Enderle said the new file system will also function efficiently with hard drives holding at least one terabyte of data. That's 1,000 gigabytes, or well over 1,000 compressed movies, or more than 700,000 novels the size of "War and Peace." Such drives are expected to hit the market by 2004.

Creating such a file system is an extraordinarily difficult task, one that has been attempted for years by database companies, including Microsoft, but that has never reached fruition.

The guts of the new file system are being engineered mainly in conjunction with "Yukon," Microsoft's code name for the next version of its SQL Server relational database management system.

But a beta version of Yukon isn't due out until mid-2003, which makes some onlookers wonder how the file-systems team in the Windows division can get started on adapting that technology for more general-purpose use.

"Evidence they're making some progress would be a professional developers' conference explaining it, so developers can know what they need to know to use it," said Michael Cherry, an analyst with Directions on Microsoft in Kirkland. "I don't even see a date scheduled for one."

Even if such a file system can be achieved, it would have to be thoroughly tested before use, as converting data to the new system would be necessary -- but could destroy the data.


Present a single, unified way of interacting with programs. Microsoft doesn't think computer users should have to use one program to read and write a word-processing file, another to use a spreadsheet, and a third to correspond via e-mail. Rather, the company thinks, a single program should handle it all.

Obviously this means a thorough overhaul of not just Windows but also the Office software suite, Chief Executive Steve Ballmer has confirmed in published computer-industry reports

However attractive and effective such a new interface might be, the company may be overestimating users' willingness to change their habits, some analysts say.

Once it's understood where certain tasks must be performed, many users are content to go there, even if the set-up is -- as computer geeks would say -- sub-optimal. Whether users will be willing to learn a new way of using their computers just because it's "better" is open to question.

Not to mention the expense of installing new software, says Cherry.

"There will have to be compelling reasons" to install the new operating system, because "it costs corporations a fortune to roll it out," he said.


Include enhanced security. Longhorn will be the first operating system designed for use with PCI Express, the motherboard design that will succeed the PCI standard currently in force, Enderle said. In addition to providing a performance boost of up to eight times current speeds, the new design is required to harness the increased security features of Longhorn, which Enderle said are embodied in Microsoft's "Palladium"-branded trustworthy-computing initiative.

"Neither Linux nor Unix ties the operating system to hardware," he said.

"This could bring a higher level of security than anything we've ever seen. It will almost completely prevent the platform from being compromised."

To those "facts" about Longhorn, add the hopes of other analysts. Ideally, Longhorn will "fundamentally integrate" audio, video and images in a "visually stunning" manner, much like the Mac's OS X, said Tim Bajarin, president of the Campbell, Calif., research firm Creative Strategies Inc.

It should also be able to synchronize the multiple PCs, personal digital assistants and computer-equipped cell phones -- Microsoft calls them SmartPhones -- many people will own, Bajarin said.

But getting Longhorn out the door at Microsoft could be a challenge. The company is struggling to get .Net Server -- the first server version of Windows XP -- shipped. It also has service packs for Windows 2000 and Windows XP to produce on an ongoing basis. And a new operating system takes at least 20 months, sometimes 40 months, Cherry said.

"I'd like to see Microsoft act like the operating-system leader it is, not promising scores of new features or letting rumors fly but stepping forward and saying, 'We will have X, Y and Z features and not A, B and C,' " he said.

"That would be leadership, especially when so many people are dependent on you."

P-I reporter Dan Richman can be reached at 206-448-8032 or danrichman@seattlepi.com


http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/business/97709_longhorn29.shtml


Drag

[d3sTrUcT0r]

Hmm.. this version of windows, no matter how many improvements it carries, also presents microsoft and other companys the opportunity to control, what YOU do, with YOUR computer. Preventing you from running programs, only allowing you to open specified file types.. the whole hog.

[Bigjakkstaffa]

the world's most popular operating system

I dont really think popular is the word, do you?

:p;)

--Jakk:t

[Johnny Fist]

Originally posted by d3sTrUcT0r
Hmm.. this version of windows, no matter how many improvements it carries, also presents microsoft and other companys the opportunity to control, what YOU do, with YOUR computer. Preventing you from running programs, only allowing you to open specified file types.. the whole hog.

People said that about XP, too. Give it about three months before it comes out and someone out there will have hacked and exploited the OS all to hell and back before it even hits the shelves. Remember Microsoft's failed attempt at preventing pirating XP by forcing you to activate it over the phone? Or how about the way they dropped the ball again thinking that even if you did have a pirated copy of XP you couldn't instal SP1? What a joke. Just remember, for every one person who figures out a way to build a better mouse trap, there are half a dozen mice who figure out how to get out of it.

[bushmaster]

Yeah it's a whole new file system for Microsoft. Longhorn is going to be a shell run on top of Linux. Thats why Bill G is trying to do away with open source OS's. Make them all illegal and not let anybody make their own PC's. hahahahahahaha.

[herosrest]

Longhorn is in trouble - it will be so secure (from the ground up) that not even BG will be able to log in. :p :p

But really - The OS will probably cost more than the kit it runs on. Thats nice. :r :r

[dragflameson]

Well it doesn't seem like you guys are too excited over Longhorn LoL. I just like to try all the new stuff out, especially before it's out, that's why I get excited :)

Drag

[herosrest]

I wish M$ luck with this latest endevour - not that it's really needed.
If it's it's mandatory on each new pc it can't really fail.
However - the nexy expensive IT cockup here in UK will really fuel the debate for choice of OS.

There is an incedible opportunity at the moment for a simple boring cheap and easy new OS. If someone cracks that nut - they can have my vote and pennies.

I will never under stand why Intel and via etc - don't build the OS into the cpu where it belongs. Not an M$ or Linux type monster but a simple OS - a little added valuefor them and a way to use Hyperthreading effectively. Still business is business.

[dragflameson]

Originally posted by herosrest
I wish M$ luck with this latest endevour - not that it's really needed.


LINUX will take over Microsoft one day probably anyways... who cares, I don't!

I just take things as they are thrown at me. If somethings going to happen then it's going to happen. Sometimes there isn't anything you can do about it anyways.


Drag

[Bigjakkstaffa]

LINUX will take over Microsoft one day probably anyways...

Needs to get itself a decent API for gaming similar to Direct X in universality before it can do that though :(

--Jakk:t

[dragflameson]

Yeah I know... one of these days :)

I would say Linux is making great progress if thats what there trying to do with Mandrake. Not too long back all Linux was was just a bunch of command lines, what average user would want to deal with that? Now Mandrake has nice GUI's, ect. It is a cool change from Windows also :)


Drag

[CrimZon]

Sounds alot like MS said about WinXP.

and Win ME...

and Win98se...

and Win98...

and Win95.

I'm done with Windows. I'm about done with their products. Too many times does MS claim the same things. The system doesn't really improve much, and the requirements to do simple functions are outlandish. My DX2/66 with MSDOS 6.22 spins circles around the 300Mhz w/ XP Pro at work. Programs I wrote on a Tandy under 10 Mhz in a 64KB RAM environment typically require about 400 Mhz or better with 64 MB RAM on today's platforms. (I'm sure many old-schoolers here have even better stories).

I hope they really DO radically change the OS though. Complete change. No compatibility. Let the ba$tards dig themselves into a hole.

All I need is an OS that lets me get things done. Something efficent... linux. Something very stable... linux. And now, Wine (Win-compatible API for Linux), supports many, many Win applications: now I have compatibility.

My Linux CDs should come in today (I hope) and well as my new dvd-drive.:D

[dragflameson]

CrimZon,
What are you getting, Red Hat?

Drag

[EdIt] BTW, you forgot Win95 B :)

[CrimZon]

Xandros Linux.

Having problems getting my Linksys WPC11 v3 wireless PCMCIA card working. Sound doesn't work either.

Havent ever used UNIX/Linux before. Hope to be over the hump of the steep learning curve soon.

Heck, Id prbly STILL use my Tandy TRS-80 CoCo2 if the magnetic shielding on the RF part hadn't gone out!:rolleyes:

[Sterling_Aug]

Longhorn/.Net Server 2003/Sever 2003 or whatever it is called by the time it is released for sale this year is a very steady. full featured OS. I have it currently running on a 1.1 GHz HP laptop with 624 MB RAM and the OS is configured to run Active Directory on my internal domain. MS expects it to be released for Manufacture April 24, 2003 without any more versions of beta developed.

[dragflameson]

Originally posted by Sterling_Aug
Longhorn/.Net Server 2003/Sever 2003 or whatever it is called by the time it is released for sale this year is a very steady. full featured OS. I have it currently running on a 1.1 GHz HP laptop with 624 MB RAM and the OS is configured to run Active Directory on my internal domain. MS expects it to be released for Manufacture April 24, 2003 without any more versions of beta developed.
Thats Microsoft Server 2003 thats coming out inApr. of 2003, Longhorn is coming out in 2004 sometime from my understanding.

Drag

[Sterling_Aug]

My mistake..........

[dragflameson]

NP ;)

[Slade54]

Search Palladium on google, and see all the sites you get bashing it. And thats why their next OS is gonna fail, and i hope they lose ALOT of money. Thatll teach them that just because the MS logo is on it doesnt mean ppl will buy it. Then maybe they will release better software, and stop trying to force ppl into things they dont want.

Of course, another reason it should fail is because the article stated that it will only run on longhorn enabled hardware. If there isnt enough hardware supporting it, then forget about OEMs picking it up, which in turns means forget about the masses buying it. Though MS will prolly just set really high prices on all the other OSes and set a low one on longhorn, forcing them to pick up longhorn.
We seriously needed a judge on the anti-trust case to actually have done something about their monopoly. If they broke up the rockerfeller monopoly, why wont they break up the MS one?

But by 2004, linux will more then likely have stepped up a few notches, and be a much larger competitor.

All-in-all, i think its more MS BS, and i dont care for updating software just because its the "newest and best". Im running win98se probably as stable as anyone running winxp. You just have to know how to tame the beast.

[Rugor]

Longhorn as it is currently proposed will have serious problems. But this shouldn't suprise anyone.

James P Hogan wrote a novel about 20 years ago called Voyage From Yesteryear and I see some of the elements of that novel coming out in society today. The problem is that our current economic paradigm doesn't work properly when dealing with digital information.

Traditional economics is based on the principle that when you sell something, you actually lose it. It is an exchange of one thing for another, and when the deal is done, neither side has what they started out with. It's an "economics of scarcity," where things are limited and finite. Now let's look at a company that sells their software via internet download. When they sell it, they send off a digital copy of the data, but they still have their original. They haven't lost or given up anything. Selling the data has given them a gain without a corresponding loss to offset. Meanwhile the customer, who now has that software, that data, can use the program and has that gain.

The total economic value of the system has increased. It's no longer a closed finite system but an open, infinite one.

That's the direction we are moving.

I deliberately chose to use the download model for this example because under current schemes you aren't paying for the CD's or packaging but only for the software license. Distribution is all part of the seller's overhead. It's not a perfectly free ride for the seller/creator, they still have overheads, but the fact remains that fore the first time it is now possible to have your cake and sell it too.

We're going to have a real mess until the economic system catches up with this paradigm.

Longhorn is a step backwards towards trying to force us back into the old paradigm through the use of something that could not exist without the new.

[BargainBin]

Tantalizing stuff.

Is MS throwing down the gauntlet and DARING the geeks to flee to Linux?

If I stay with MS, I'm going to skip ME, 2K, and XP and jump from 98SE to the next, heck I just got off 95B yesterday!

They better change the name if they have any marketing savvy... What do you guys think?

Longhorn sounds like a dinosaur that got long in the tooth!

[killer_teddy]

I think it's just codenameed longhorn when released I'm sure they will have dreamt up a much worse name.

[cdroman]

Quote from CrimZon;

"All I need is an OS that lets me get things done. Something efficent... linux. Something very stable... linux. And now, Wine (Win-compatible API for Linux), supports many, many Win applications: now I have compatibility."

Quote from CrimZon;

"Xandros Linux.

Having problems getting my Linksys WPC11 v3 wireless PCMCIA card working. Sound doesn't work either.

Havent ever used UNIX/Linux before. Hope to be over the hump of the steep learning curve soon.

Heck, Id prbly STILL use my Tandy TRS-80 CoCo2 if the magnetic shielding on the RF part hadn't gone out!"

I think all the win OS's you mentioned have more compatability than the one you are going to?

[CrimZon]

Whoo hoo!

Got Linux up and running great now. Figured out the problem I was having with my network card and all is peachey keen now.

Actually, when it comes to the compatibility issue, I have many programs that simply cannot run in XP (problems with the NT environment).

Also, on drawback I've had on my CDs is that most of the advancements made in Wine (a Windows-equivalent application layer in Linux) is that well, most of the biggest advances were made just this past December, and my CDs were pressed in October, so my software is horribly out of date (at least in the Linux world :p).

Whats more, I was told that MS Office compatibility was near total. I opened my MS Word and Excel files with no problems and zero loss-of-formatting with OpenOffice.org . So heck, If I can open and save those files for people that use MS Office, then I don't even need MSOffice anymore!

I am not sure if the system is ready for the average PC user to switch over just yet, but it is certainly getting close. My installation jwas just as easy, no, even easier than installing Windows.

I am VERY happy I switched over. I do not have NEARLY the number of problems I had with Windows.

[ngc457]

Linux doesn't have a prayer. GO MICROSOFT YOU ARE THE BEST. BILL I LOVE YOU AND MICROSOFT SO MUCH I WILL SUCK YOUR BIG HAIRY TOE.

[Rugor]

I like Linux.

I've used both it and Windows fairly extensively and find each platform has its strengths and weaknesses.

One thing I very much like about Linux is the underlying philosophy behind the Open Source Movement. Microsoft is moving more and more towards tying our computers to theirs, through required and often hidden connections. A Linux box is still all mine, but Bill Gates wants to own a piece of every Windows computer.

I use Linux joyously, and Windows grudgingly. When using Linux I never go "I wish I could do this under Windows," but there are programs I run in Windows I would rather use Linux for.

I use Windows because I must. I don't have a choice if I want to run modern games. As this attitude becomes more and more widespread, MS will have more and more difficulty selling the total upgrade that Longhorn will require.

"Why should I put more money into a computer so that someone I don't trust can have even more control of it whether I want them to or not?"

[Logan[TeamX]]

People don't want to have to buy all-new hardware in addition to an all-new OS in ored to support a gag order from Microsoft and a consortium of developers. People are not in a dictatorship (unless you're reading this in Iraq or Cuba), and do not need to be treated like children. The efforts of a miniscule number of hackerws and warez dealers are condemning the entire world's population to a life on gray drabbery.

If my Microsoft Certs didn't have such a meaningful effect on my job and paycheque, I'd tear them up. I'm embarassed to say that I'm a MCP.

Even Windows XP didn't bother me as much as the Palladium project. I can live with Activation. I can't live with a dictatorship.

You there, buy a new computer to support the Palladium project. Buy our new OS, Longhorn, so we can tell you what to run, what you can open, and what you can do. We'll be in Redmond, ready to push the big button on you if you so much as open a peer-to-peer client.

Disgusting.

That's my 2 cents.

Logan

[Rugor]

It's times like these that I am very glad I live on the other side of Puget Sound from Redmond. It turns the sound into a protective moat.

[BargainBin]

Does Windows XP run on FAT32 or NTFS?

I've noticed one big difference with Windows and Linux installations, and am finding I prefer Linux.

With Windows, I take all of my PCI cards out of the computer for for a fresh install, that way it might get mainboard drivers in 3 or 4 restarts. With Linux it is the opposite, I make sure I've got every piece of hardware I want in the computer before I install.

That alone, is a big difference.

[ngc457]

With Windows when I do a clean install I have all devices hooked up. Windows detects most devices but some it doesn't. You just download the nice pretty driver from the manufactures web site and the happy happy device works. With Linux you have to hunt all over hill and dale for a driver that some snot nosed geek write that only suports a fraction of the features. That isn't the worse part. You many have to recompile your kernel.

[dragflameson]

ngc457,

Does your name stand for The National Golf Center?


Drag

[Flotilla]

Originally posted by BargainBin
Does Windows XP run on FAT32 or NTFS?

I've noticed one big difference with Windows and Linux installations, and am finding I prefer Linux.

With Windows, I take all of my PCI cards out of the computer for for a fresh install, that way it might get mainboard drivers in 3 or 4 restarts. With Linux it is the opposite, I make sure I've got every piece of hardware I want in the computer before I install.

That alone, is a big difference.


It installs as NTFS (at least came pre-loaded on my pc like that) but you can change it to FAT32, so both work (you can change it over without damaging your data with partition magic 8.0)

[Strawbs]

Originally posted by dragflameson
...However attractive and effective such a new interface might be, the company may be overestimating users' willingness to change their habits, some analysts say. ...

Drag I'm with the Analysts on this, where did M$ ever get the idea that PPL will continue to follow them blindly where ever they lead?

Intel made the same mistake when it shifted to Slot CPU's in an attempt to copy protect the processor market and accidently left the door open for AMD! I can see the same thing happening with M$/Linux and I won't be sorry. I will not be forced to upgrade my hardware because Bill says I should! left without a choice but to upgrade, I would rather give the money to someone else in protest.

In this case I will cut my nose to spite Micro$haft!! :cool:

[dragflameson]

Originally posted by Strawbs
I'm with the Analysts on this, where did M$ ever get the idea that PPL will continue to follow them blindly where ever they lead?

Intel made the same mistake when it shifted to Slot CPU's in an attempt to copy protect the processor market and accidently left the door open for AMD! I can see the same thing happening with M$/Linux and I won't be sorry. I will not be forced to upgrade my hardware because Bill says I should! left without a choice but to upgrade, I would rather give the money to someone else in protest.

In this case I will cut my nose to spite Micro$haft!! :cool:
Strawbs,

I was reading that a lot of consumers might actually be able to see right through MS and not upgrade or even go with some other OS.

At first I was kind of glad to hear about Longhorn, but now the more I read about it the more I don't know about this whole thing, especially with all these security issues with Palladium and what not. I don't really know what to think right now about software in late 2004 or 2005. :(


Drag

[scrubby]

M$ has enough money and I have Mandrake 9.0, he can keep his new OS. Made the switch to Linux 4 weeks ago and I'm not sorry in the least. As with any new OS there is a learning curve, that's where the manuals come into play. Outlook express went south and wouldn't get my email right after I installed 9.0, needless to say I have not been back to fix it, nor do I intend to. I may just pull that hard drive out and wipe M$ off of it. I don't need it anymore. I have a friend who works for a rather large company in Austin. They use Linux and M$, two weeks ago the CEO threatened to fire anyone who sent in a request for new M$ software that required a license fee to M$. He is tired of paying those fees and told his people to get ready to switch everything to Linux. He generally pays for about 800 lic. fees every year to Billy Boy. A penny saved is a penny earned.

[dragflameson]

Ok, Windows XP was suposed to work wonders with Athlon XP chips.

Now Microsoft Longhorn is suposed to have extensive support for the AMD 64 (Hammer) family of CPUs. What exactly does this mean?


Thanks,
Drag

[dragflameson]

And one other thing...

Longhorn is also suposed to offer improvements to graphics subsystem that exploits 3D graphics to substantially improve the display of both text and graphics.

Is this ture? Will it make any differences at all, or no?


Thanks,
Drag

[Jimstep]

There's always something bigger and better on the horizon...

[Slade54]

Ok, WindowsXP and AthlongXP just happen to have the same name, it means absolutely nothing. They are not connected in any way but appearence. The only way they may be connected is AMD decided to tag on XP so ppl would THINK that is was better with WindowsXP then Intel, basicly a martketing gimick.

And i would assume Longhorn would have 64bit AMD support, but that doesnt matter cuz a 64bit WindowsXP ver is supposed to be coming out, and there are also linux versions you can get that have 64bit support.

And yes, Longhorn is suppposed to have an actual 3D graphical interface. This is basicly another marketing thing (IMO) where they can make it look really nice, with tons of eye candy, than have the OEMs sell inferior computers that cant handle it. (like the ones today selling XP with only 128mb ram and a cheap @$$ graphics cards, or integrated for that matter)

[genesound]

This could be a boone for Mac as well as Linux.

[dragflameson]

Ahhh I don't know what to think anymore now. I am almost done building another computer for my room now which I will dual boot with Windows 2000 Pro and Mandrake, this way I can start getting used to Linux.


Drag