Maybe you'll think this is appropriate, maybe you won't. But when the U.S. tells the world what it can and can't talk about, you definately have something new to worry about.
The U.S. is considering a Bill that would make it illegal and punishable to have any drug related information or links on the internet (or U.S. based servers at least.)
News on Wired
www.wired.com/news/news/politics/story/21152.html (http://www.wired.com/news/news/politics/story/21152.html)
Like I said, you may not think this is appropriate, so Administrators, if you feel it is neccessary, just close or delete this thread. I'll take no offence.
[This message has been edited by Dominus (edited 08-07-99).]
KillerBug
08-07-1999, 04:05 PM
Drug related like buying, or drug related like studdies?
Dominus
08-07-1999, 05:52 PM
Drug buying/selling was always illegal over then net (obviously) now any drug related information, research, paraphenailia, etc, will also be illegal.
And I thought Americans were supposed to have free speech.
chuckiechan
08-07-1999, 06:54 PM
If you think of the net as a telephone no laws are broken by talk. When you ship it, or receive it, you have committed a crime if it is a listed, controlled substance requiring a licence or perscription.
So you are still free to talk & think. (I think)
Dominus
08-07-1999, 07:46 PM
As of yet, you're still free to talk, read & link to drug related material, but the link i posted tells of an American bill that seeks to make it otherwise.
socalgal
08-07-1999, 09:26 PM
Dianne Feinstein has chapped my hide for a long time. Well, at least the L.A. D.A. dropped their case against Mitnick!
KillerBug
08-07-1999, 10:36 PM
well, I guess they will take down http://www.dare.com ! America, the land of fre-speach, as long as what you want to talk about is not resticted under law, and you have at least $1,000,000 to your name (you could at least buy a TV add).
BBA
08-07-1999, 11:04 PM
I don't want to sound biased or something, but when both a Democrat and Republican combine to limit constitutional freedoms, it must be a bad culture they are in.
Nothin personal socalgal, but if this is the quality of leadership in Cali, it needs to fall off the map already!
You can come stay over in Fl, but you'd have to change your name. http://www.sysopt.com/forum/smile.gif
What's the big deal? Many rights are long gone, but that one isn't even worth mentioning. Folks that can't live without drugs, should REALLY consider suicide as a way to "deal" with life. Christ!!...Next they'll be wanting to make murder illegal!! Then, what will the addicts and drug dealers do in their spare time??
Now, let the bashing begin...........
BBA
08-08-1999, 11:40 AM
magk9, Did you go to school?... ever?...
Gordon
08-08-1999, 02:06 PM
Big Brother is trying, and succeeding, in removing your U.S. Constitutional rights, by using things like this.
Examples:
Constitutional, we are allowed to own guns, yet the government is using the school gun shootings, as well as crime, as an excuse to remove ALL guns, and thus take that right away. Problem is, the only ones ending up with guns in the end, with that idea, would be the government and the the very criminals that they used as an excuse to remove the guns. Just remember, Government is above the law, criminals don't care about the law, with the normal honest citizen, abiding by the law. In other words, the honest citizen wouldn't have a gun to protect themselves from either the government or the criminal, which many believe, including myself, are one in the same.
Another, using illegal drugs as an excuse, a person is suppose to be considered innoscent until proven guilty in a U.S. court of law. Yet we have Search and Seizure laws that allow government to take our property on the spot without a court trial, ONLY on the assumption that you MIGHT be involved in drugs. Police can take your property and money on the spot. Airlines are instructed to notify the police if they see that you have any large amount of money in your wallet, when you pruchase a ticket. At which time, they can and do take it, just on the assumtion that you MIGHT be a drug dealer. What if you don't believe in using credit cards, and you are going on vacation? I have heard it happen. You have to go to court, at your cost, to prove yourselve innocent. Not many can afford it, thus the government wins and gets to keep that property and money. They can use it as a propaganda ploy in order to prove to everyone that there is a lot more drug crime than really exists, in order to gain more power.
Another, again using drugs as an excuse, banks have had to notify the government if a client puts in $10,000 or more into their accounts, again thinking your involved in drugs. Now, with a new thing called KNOW YOUR CUSTOMER, banks have to keep a profile of their customers, such that, any unusual transaction has to be reported. In other words, if I normally, say deposit $100 a week into my account, if I should suddenly increase that amount, the bank has to notify the government.
Now we have our freedom of speech being jepodized, again drugs being an excuse.
These are just a few examples, that I know of, who knows what other violations of the U.S. Constitution is being violated by our so called government. People better wake up, especially in reference to the treath of Socialism growing in the U.S.. Everyone here expects the government to solve our personal problems, and with that, a resulting ever increasing size and presence, as well as cost, of governement.
Wake up America.
Ygor
08-08-1999, 02:08 PM
High school civics (when I went) taught that with each freedom comes a responsibility. You don't shout "Fire" in a crowded theatre just because you have freedom of speech.
There is also a "pendulum theory" in history that may apply here. Back in the 60's, drugs were everywhere. Now in the 90's, they are still around, but much less accepted than then.
Personally, I am much more concerned about a law that would prevent other abuses of/on the internet than this one. Back when I had GNN for internet access I had to wade thru many many sites that found a way to be listed first in the list one got. Openly child porn sites, racist sites, hate sites... what most people would consider sick sites.
The service I have now makes those sites rather hard to get to I think. (haven't looked) Perhaps it's just easier to word the law that Feinstein is backing?
Dominus, thanks for pointing this out. There is much to be concerned about here.
seti
08-08-1999, 03:34 PM
Oh Canada! haha
Gordon
08-08-1999, 04:10 PM
Canada is in worst shape than the US. Look at the taxes you guys spend, as well as, less rights than we have here, though that is changing. Your government is a socialist one, while ours is moving that way. Isn't socialism a form of communism, that supposidely failed? Government telling you what to do and what not to do. This idea of a world order isn't helping things any. It is making things even worse.
magk9
08-08-1999, 04:17 PM
Hey BBA!! Shur I went to skool..grajiated thee sixt grade.. don't you remember?? You sat right behind me and ALWAYS copied MY answers!!
It's apparent that most of you are very idealistic and young......in 20 years you won't even care what the crazy politicians do, resistance is futile!!
skywalker[TSG]
08-08-1999, 04:43 PM
insane in the membrane insane in the brain LOL i think this is well exuse my language ****ING CRASY
GB
08-08-1999, 04:50 PM
.
[This message has been edited by GB (edited 08-19-99).]
Dominus
08-08-1999, 06:47 PM
Gordon, I don't quite follow you on that "Evil Canadian Communist" bit.
For 4 years in a row, we've been voted the number one country in the world by the United Nations Human Development Report. We are also the second wealthiest, next to Austrailia. The US isn't even amoung the top ten wealthiest.
And because guns are not an ordained right here, our crime rate is 1/4th that of the US (per 100,000 people).
But I digress from this semi-patriotic rant, though I am quite patiently and excitedly awaiting a further and in-depth definition of "Socialism" & "Communism" from your perspective.
And remember everybody! "Blame Canada!"
Joel Kleppinger
08-08-1999, 07:17 PM
I prefer to take a bit different perspective on the US and Cananda. By virtue of having a very close uncle who was born and raised in Cananda and is still a Canadian citizen with his parents still living near Toronto, I get to hear a lot from both sides.
The fact of the matter is that Canada and the US just aren't that different. However, Canada IS more socialist in nature, especially when considering Canadian health care which is subsidized by the government. There are people there that wait months or even a year or more just to get a heart surgery or something like that because it's all a socialized health care system. Many Canadians close to the border, especially the more well off ones, will cross over the border to get health care from US doctors because they can get it much quicker.
The sad part is that a lot of the US congressmen are trying to do the same thing to us here. That health care bill that came up a few years ago was pretty similar in nature to what the Canadians already have. Thankfully, it was knocked down, but it'll be back - hopefully to be knocked down again.
The US's biggest problem as a nation is that we depend on the government and government services too much. We think we get a free ride on some of their stuff we don't have to pay for. But has no one noticed what your current income tax is?
It's not like a private business where if you don't like them, you can simply take your business next door. We're stuck unless we choose to move outside their jurisdiction. It's either move or overthrow - and neither of those options are real great.
When will government stop trying to meddle in our lives? The more we let them, the more they'll try to pry deeper and deeper. It won't stop until we as a people realize we don't need the government for all the things we get from them "for free." We pay more because of their bureaucracy than we ever would if we just paid free enterprise to do it. I only hope we realize it before the government has too big a grip on us.
Gordon
08-08-1999, 09:58 PM
The single biggest problem with a national health program is that it is run by government. It is a 100% guarantee that it will fail due to government mismanagement. Right from the start, you will have government appointee's made up of political friends and even mistresses, like in the case with Clinton. One of the biggest problems with government is the lack of skilled people, especially people trained in management. Unlike private business, no one ever gets fired for screwing up in government, they simply are just reassigned. Government agencies have an open purse when it comes to spending, and as long as they do, they WILL spend. Government doesn't have to show any profit like private industry.
As for Canada, I have nothing against them, except maybe with the French Canadians perhaps. I live in the upper Northwest, next to BC. My grandmother was Canadian, my landlord is, and a good number of my neighbors are. I get along with them find.
If anyone is considered evil in this world, it is the US. Though I find it amazing of all the immigrants that still come and stay.
I'll admit, our government sticks it's nose in everyone's business, which I wish we wouldn't. In the end we ALWAYS get blamed. But push come to shove, we are ALWAYS there to help people, though people seem to forget mighty fast. Remember, the US is made up of EVERY nationality in the world, though our core is still British, which I hope is never lost.
As for Socialism vs. Communism. The Democratic party, or Leftist, are without question socialist. They believe in BIG government, out there to run everyone lives. They believe in total 100% control of our lives by these polical appointees in Washington. That the rich, which is anyone that works for a living, should pay and support those that don't work. They even believe in having a national system where everyone's salary is put into a central bank, then that money is distributed evenly to everone, regardless whether they work or not. Now that is communism. There certainly wouldn't be much incentive to work, much less do any overtime. Eventually the system would have to fail. It is only logical. In the US, the Leftist's are always putting down the rich, who in most cases, worked hard and EARNED there money, only to be expected to share their money with those who are either not as successful, or are down and out LAZY.
BBA
08-08-1999, 10:58 PM
Hate to say it, but I can see every point Gordan made!
Our Gov't is definitely too big for our own good, only the military is getting too small for the same!
BBA
CMonster
08-09-1999, 12:52 AM
It sure does seem like America is headed down the totalitarian road;
http://www.peyote.net/welcome.html
http://www.peyote.net/welcome.html
http://www.peyote.net/welcome.html
Check out this guy's strugles.
Dominus
08-09-1999, 12:57 AM
I don't give a **** about drug information part of this. Basically I'm indifferent about that. It's just that the U.S. gov't is taking away your free speech with this law. How long will it be until the more conservative states outlaw information on the internet about homosexuality? Or non-Christian religions? Or how long will it be until anti-U.S. opinions are illegal over the net? Or political criticism?
Basically what this bill says is that you have free speech; but *only* on what They say you can have it on.
"All animals are equal, but some are more equal than others"
- George Orwell
[This message has been edited by Dominus (edited 08-08-99).]
socalgal
08-09-1999, 08:06 AM
The tricklings of government quietly, consistently, erode our freedoms.
Have "The People" been lulled into such a false sense of security that we soon will be looking up from the bottom of the chasm due to complacency and apathy?
"And they were led like sheep to the slaughter..."
Gordon, while I think you make valid points about guns laws and search & seizure, I still believe that the USA is the greatest country in the world. All evils considered (for one example, Serbs vs. ethnic Albanians), we are lucky to be here. I just hope America wakes up in time.
U-96
08-09-1999, 08:58 AM
Some great sage wrote something along the lines of (I paraphrase):
It is the irony of democracy that the electorate are empowered to vote themselves out of the very rights their forebears fought for.
I believe the comment was in regard to the Weimar Republic and the rise of Hitler's Third Reich...
U-96
Gordon
08-10-1999, 02:40 AM
Socalgal, the problem is, WILL America wake up in time. Things seem to be moving towards the worst. Man never seems to learn from his past mistakes. As an example, the recent incident in Serbia, I was scared of it breaking into another world war. Clinton needed something to divert attention from his personal problems, as well as, his paranoid idea of leaving a legacy for himself in history. I think he has already done that, though not with what he wanted to be remembered with. You also have Yelsan and the Russian economy being in bad shape, it would of been a perfect excuse for him to divert attention from it and him, with a war. Hitler did a similar thing, causing World War II.
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