Are you a PIRATE???

[araaraara]

Since making illegal copies and downloading software is pirating, you can call me Captain Redbeard! I have tons of warez and gamez on my computer! I got a 6.4 gig drive to store them on! I have like almost 2 gigs right now, all downloaded with a 56k modem and a free isp! I am a BIG Napster supporter.
Does anyone else out there in sysopt land do the same thing?

[bdog]

NO. Pirating is stealing. Sysopt members are not a bunch of thieves.

[Loveless]

can you honestly say ALL your is bought and licensed to you?

sometimes, people can not afford photoshop that cost 600 dollar, few hundred goes here and there for the software we're dying to use.

I ain't rich, are you?
(I have 2.78gb)

[CMonster]

"...sometimes, people can not afford photoshop that cost 600 dollar, few hundred goes here and there for the software we're dying to use.
I ain't rich, are you?

Using Mandrake Linux 96% of the time now, which can be downloaded for free along with many great software packages, but I paid for the Deluxe edition.

[club_med]

Well if you consider downloading music from Napster illegal then count me in, im a pirate too http://www.sysopt.com/forum/smile.gif.

cm.

[araaraara]

Maybe I should mention that I have a few large apps, which is why so much space is used. Most of the things I have are games.

[wyvrn]

Since making illegal copies and downloading software is pirating, you can call me Captain Redbeard! I have tons of warez and gamez on my computer!

Congratulations! You have admitted to being a thief.

I got a 6.4 gig drive to store them on! I have like almost 2 gigs right now, all downloaded with a 56k modem and a free isp!

Nope all mine are real baby http://www.sysopt.com/forum/smile.gif

I am a BIG Napster supporter.
Does anyone else out there in sysopt land do the same thing?

I am sure they do but you are the only one brave enough (or stupid) to start a thread about it.

[This message has been edited by wyvrn (edited 04-05-2001).]

[Hellmund]

I use Napster but I don't consider myself a pirate, I don't d/l Metallica, just Foo fighters,Emimen and other such artists who endorse file-sharing. I don't endorse the warez as it's due to people doing exactly that which is why retail games are soo expensive.D/l warez is stealin not pirating though unless your selling those warez on C.D's.

[djurom]

Well, I've never considered myself as thief but when I think better I am! Every single byte on my system is pirated including my OS, games,...but on my "buisness setup" at work I have completely all registered.

[bdog]

Well, I can't afford a brand new truck right now or a Humvee so I guess the next one I see I will go steal. What kind of twisted logic is that?

I would not have a lot of the software that I have if it was not for our University's licsensing agreements. I know it is expensive but look at all the work that goes into it. It is worth it IMHO.

[krusty the klown]

Hmmm.... threads about the 'Jolly Roger' tend to be closed fairly smartish!

[wyvrn]

I don't buy a piece of software unless I intend to use it. A lot of times you can find a demo version and that should give you enough time to decide whether you like it. I am not one to load a bazillion programs on my computer just because they are available, so pirating really is not a big deal. Also, I have not upgraded from Office 97 yet because I do not need Office2k features. I see no reason to steal it because I do not feel the need to constantly upgrade but instead get a good life from each program I buy.

I know people that have to upgrade to the latest everything when it comes out, like Win2k and Office 2k, but since they cannot afford it they end up burning copies from friends. And of course they refuse to use free or cheaper alternatives because they are not mainstream and it is "below" them. Such hypocracy.

[DanU]

Using commercial software that you haven't purchased is outright theft. But what if you've purchased software and then install it on multiple computers? Say a guy buys Office2000 and installs it on both his and his wife's computer? That's piracy too. I'm sure many people with multiple computers are guilty of this, myself included. I just can't see myself buying one copy of Windows, Office, etc... for every computer when not every computer is in use simultaneously.

[zskillz]

i think it would be wise if I plead the 5th on this one.

-Z

http://www.sysopt.com/forum/wink.gif

[bdunn]

Actuall I'm not sure. I work for a university and as such am allowed to purchase academic software licences. When we were upgraded to office 2000, at the office, I bought one for home so I can work with the same software in both places and move documents back and forth.

[djurom]

Recently on some on portals in my country there was voting about pirating and the results were: 73% use pirated software so I'm not so affraid about that stuff.

[RataToo]

odnt care either way...if i want sumthing ill take it either way asap. If the money comes along first kewl, if a friend can hook me up ..kewl...if theres a hack or a crack...kewl...if its on sale...kewl....yadda yadda

[Barney]

I have an eyepatch, peg leg and a hook for a hand... <IMG SRC="http://server2044.virtualave.net/r0nald/ubb/biggrin.gif" border=0>

[jeffpapier]

HEY ALL YOU MEMBERWHINEYS ON YOUR HIGH HORSE
You know you can't own software, you only get to own a "licence" to use it with all the restrictions on its use. All that with no guarantee for it to work and no warranty to repair its faults.

[LuckyTech]

Ok let me throw this one out there..
If you get full version software or pirated software and try it out first before you decide to buy it,is that still stealing or is it like taking a car for a test drive ?

[Bob The Great]

Most programs have demo's, light versions, or trial type software that allow you to test the program out before you buy it.

Pirating software is stealing from everyone including yourself. You end up paying more for software because of pirating. Plus other people that might not have ever done an illegal copy will have to pay the price! Because the company will have to cover it's losses by rasing the price on their product.

So my opinion, is that it is wrong. I can go without Photoshop 10 zillion. Instead I'll use a program I can afford. And save my self, and someone else a bit of money!

[smokin1]

Am I a pirate?
in a word..no..
if you like it..buy it. Do I try a program before I buy..absolutely. If you can't afford it..well..too bad for you. That's life. You can live without it...
http://www.sysopt.com/forum/wink.gif

[Ed_S]

I'm not going to agree with wholesale pirating like some have said here, but...

I'll admit, I've "borrowed" software occasionally, or loaned it. Mostly long ago, but still...
Probably most of us have done that at one time or another. Most often I wound up buying the next version of it, though. Now, everything's legal, though.



[This message has been edited by Ed_S (edited 04-07-2001).]

[jak]

i think that bought software usually runs better anyways. i pirated win 98 and it was so screwed up, bought me and works likea charm
jak this is only one example i have many others

[This message has been edited by jak (edited 04-06-2001).]

[samwichse]

I suppose then from all the responses that I am the only boy scout here.

[SoopaStar]

While I don't agree with pirating...I kinda look at it from a slightly different point of view. Lets take the ever popular microsoft for example. They charge consumers $90 for an upgrade and $190 for a full version of their 9x/Me operating system. While at the same time, they sell the same software as an OEM version to Dell or another company for pennies on the dollar. Do I consider it stealing if I buy a copy of Windows 98/2000 and install it on m 3 computers? No. If they were worried about costs, then they wouldn't cut OEM's a huge deal on theirs. If I do it to three PC's then they are out $180-200+ or so. However, thru their own discounting means for the OEM software, they loose oodles more.
Microsoft chooses to loose money.

Lets turn this to the attention of the new Windows XP registration. With Windows XP, your computer produces a code instead of one coming with the book/CD case. This code is based on your computer's hardware configuration. While they haven't worked the bugs out entirely...what happens if you upgrade the ram, replace the mobo/CPU or install a new harddrive? Well, you will veyr likely have to re-register the product.
Also, the registration feature on Office XP. Similar story, but you can buy a registration for 1 year 2 years..or whatever. Make sense? To them yes. To me? HELL no.
Even the beta testers have been crying foult o MS to change their ways. I think this will give an opportune chance for anothor OS to really come forward. Hopefully Linux can buckle down and get the bugs outa USB and work with getting installation of software/hardware easier by the time XP takes off. I know if I get a headache from the OS...there is **** good chance of me switching over.
As for the subject at hand...pir8ing? Maybe. Sometimes. If I like it I buy it. EZ Cd creator 5? bought it. Eudora Pro 5? bought it. C&C2? bought it. Winzip...yeah...i even bought that. The way I look at the matter: if I use it for 2 weeks and it becomes an application I use alot..then obviously its good enough for me to buy it. Next I am going to buy PaintShop Pro. I love that one.

Paul C.

[SoopaStar]

Oh...and openly admitting yer a pirate on a forum that is corporately owned...dumb move buddy. See that little message in the bottom right-hand corner? It says "IP Logged". Yup its a record. Your ISP has them too. they can match em up.


Paul

[blind to truth]

I see nothing wrong with software 'pirating'. The way I see it, when the software is compiled, the person who get's the money for selling it is the company, let's say..Microsoft or Adobe, not Paul Narayanan, or Bob Bobson. And besides, as long as you put that software to good use, than why not? I mean, im a kick *** programmer and computer designer, you think I paid $600 for VB or Photoshop? lol, I don't have money falling out of my ***. Anyway the point is...I forgot, but what im trying to say is: what ever floats your boat. Feel like pirating software? good for you. Feel like flashing your Visa around at Compusa? good for you. And someone reffered to pirating to shoplifting, were it raises prices, which is untrue. When you take something from Walmart, you take the only single physical item. Pirating is just making a copy of that item.

And Paul, I don't think Microsoft is going to go after some guy for saying he pirated something on a ubb. My IP is 172.138.102.96

[This message has been edited by blind to truth (edited 04-06-2001).]

[club_med]

*

[DanU]

AVAST ye theivin' scum! Put away yer ill gotten booty. http://www.sysopt.com/forum/smile.gif

[ArnoldLLerch]

I want some booty!

"I mean, im a kick *** programmer and computer designer, you think I paid $600 for VB or Photoshop? lol, I don't have money falling out of my ***."

Hey, I work in a computer recycling plant, rebuild computers from used parts, don't know squat about programming and guess what, I've got money falling out of my ****. How come a "kick ***" programmer doesn't have any money for programs? I paid $100 for OEM Win98SE, $149 for my office suite, $39.95 for my Black Ice, $300 for my Adobe Photoshop, I've got a car, truck and a van that I gave my girlfriend for a birthday present (Chrysler Town and Country), I'm fat (225 lbs), own my home and got good clothes.

Wassup up with this stealing stuff?

[This message has been edited by ArnoldLLerch (edited 04-07-2001).]

[allanfromscotland]

i can't believe how niave some people on this message board are.

do you really think micro$oft would cut the price of its software if it sold more licences???

and anyway, if a person can't afford windoze, he will buy a pirate copy. if he doesn't have the pirate copy, he wouldn't have windoze. so microsoft looses _what_ exactly?

i think you'll find that people that can atually afford the legit software will buy it...usually for the documentation, a better quality cd that won't scratch as soon as a flake of dust lands on it, and the guaruntee that when they get home the cd won't be blank.

the only reason i don't have any pirate software is i find free open source software to be just as good, and usually, much better than the commercial alternatives.

[This message has been edited by allanfromscotland (edited 04-07-2001).]

[blind to truth]

I don't have money because I don't have a job, and I don't charge people for my programs, never will.

[Lordy]

Have you ever considered that once they crack down on piracy, they have a full Monopoly on you. So, even if piracy did stop, it gives the companies an insentive to make the prices of them higher. Of course, it may go lower. But still, they do have to pay their lawyers for all the busting that they did. So, I don't really think It'll help much. Personally I don't really care.

[ArnoldLLerch]

Okay, so if you don't charge people for your programs, what programs do you have that people would want? Put your programs up against Bill Gates' and let me see which one I want to put in my computer. In other words, "put yer program where yer mouth is runnin." And what kinda **** is that, "if people want windoze and can't afford it they'll use pirate software." Kinda puts all of us on the level of thieves and I resent that. If I can't afford something, I do without. Anything else is theft.

[This message has been edited by ArnoldLLerch (edited 04-07-2001).]

[Sixpac]

R R matey....

I thinks... he's walks the plank!

Rrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr.....

[linux_nutt]

For all who think they are not pirates of some form, consider this - do you have 2 computers. If so, you need to buy 2 registered copies of each program that you buy.

[Sixpac]

Its really sooo easy...

just read the copyright instructions that come with the product. If you don't have them then go to the manufacturers website and read it there.

Unfortunately, the law is THE law. Wrong or right. Its the law.

If you don't agree then argue it. You may have to go to court but thats the price.

I don't agree with most of it but I have no choice since I don't want to spend the time in litagation.

[ragtop]

I think the software companies deserve to get a fair price for the software they produce, but it doesn't look like a little piracy has hurt Microsoft too badly.

Look at MS Office for example. It has become the standard that virtually everyone uses. Would it be nearly as popular if every person paid the full $300 price tag for every computer they installed it on??

It will be interesting to see what happens with the next generation of anti-piracy protection that MS is coming out with. It sure seems like that will give a boost to competing products like Linux in the OS department, StarOffice and WordPerfect in business productivity, etc.

In the long run that might be a bad thing for Microsoft and a good thing for the rest of us.

[Mykex]

Call me a looser I have all legit paid for or came with something I bought programs. I dont have photoshop but I do have photodeluxe 2.0. I dont have Office2000 but I do have MSWorks 97. All my programs are old but I get by with what I have. I even have 2 HDDs and DSL great pirate setup but I dont use it. One of these days I have to get Linux on one but they dont support Voodoo5500's so until I change that Im stuck.

[spidey_joe80@hotmail.com]

yup

[Wilan Wong]

I own all Adobe products, Macromedia Products and have almost all Microsoft Operating Systems, I have 3D graphics programs (Maya + 3DsMax4) also got DVD programs and MS office programs and other fancy small programs, all of them are.. err... http://www.sysopt.com/forum/smile.gif You can answer that yourself!

[Andy_L]

If no one pirated MS software, it would cost the same, Bill would just be a lot richer. I did have a pirated copy of ME, Im so glad i didnt pay for it, and no i dont have it anymore....

[Creator666]

I don’t really see the point of this thread but I’ll answer anyway…
Never paid directly for any major OS or app I use.
The truth is when I DID buy any software, I regretted it.
It’s useless to pay for something with such a short life cycle…* like most software are.

*xept if u r to make money out of it.



[This message has been edited by Creator666 (edited 04-08-2001).]

[chuckiechan]

I will only say this:

If the only way to get windows 3.1 was to buy it, then a Linux-style os would have come out sooner and have been much more successful.
Remember, Win 3.1 didn't even have a serial number to enter, and in case you were a little dense you were told you could make copies, (but not share them)..Duh! They easily could just have easily demanded that no copies be made, and if you did then damned you to a life of BSOD's and crashes!

[ilcavero]

some body said: "THATS the LAW"
well LAW can come and wipe my pirate ***.
do you think that if people bought original copies of win95 it would suck so hard????
of course not, microsoft knows that nobody buys original software and thats the reason they dont care if it runs or not. thats also the reason win2000 its good, cause corporation dont buy pirated software.

[Cygnus-X1]

Oh yea, and what about resold software???
I was at an EB store and they sell used software!! I imagine that after burning a copy of the software you can take the original there where they will purchase it from ya, for far less than it cost you and they will resell it! For far more than you paid ( but who cares you still have your copy! )
Is this corporate piracy??? greed??
The software companies loses cause someone will buy a "used" original instead of the actual one. The store makes a profit on that
cept the publisher!
I can't believe that is allowed.

Comments anyone?

[Ed_S]

I buy used software if it's available. Can't see where that's similar to piracy at all!
The actual, physical disk, instructions. and package are the property of the purchaser to do with as he pleases as long as it's only INSTALLED on one computer at a time!
I see very few current version packages available used, so I feel that most of it comes from folks that have upgraded.

AS I understand the next gen of MS's protection schemes, on-line registration is required. OS will be licensed to you, for one specific machine. Can't be sold to another person, nor used on another machine. So, what if you change machines? You can't keep the OS, and the new owner can't use it either!! Now THAT'S robbery!!

=====

thats also the reason win2000 its good, cause corporation dont buy pirated software.

Yeah. Right. They don't buy it, they do it themselves! Buy one official copy, CD-R's passed out to every manager, install it on every machine in sight!
And even today, MANY work machines do NOT have modems, so you would have to physically check the numbers to know it's the same software.

[This message has been edited by Ed_S (edited 04-08-2001).]

[Cygnus-X1]

Its similiar because the publisher does not make a profit whatsoever and loses a potential profit, that potential profit in the long run could help fund for the next cool sequel and or upgrade!

argghhhh! http://www.sysopt.com/forum/smile.gif

[This message has been edited by Cygnus-X1 (edited 04-08-2001).]

[Ed_S]

Still can't see similarity. Piracy is theft, pure & simple. Used software is just that, used merchandise. Same as a car, or anything else. It's worth X new, and Y used. X-Y= the value of usage during ownership. Simple.

And the publisher (manufacturer) DOES get something out of it, assuming the 1st owner now buys the new version. Again, same as anything else. If I couldn't sell my old one, I can't afford the new one, therefore would not buy it. Sale lost by manufacturer.

To me, merchandise is merchandise. Car, house - or software. The principles are the same, regardless of the price.

[Savant]

I suppose technically I have pirated software, in that I have had the same copy of an O/S installed on two computers, but not while they were both in operating condition lol I suppose I've also used "warez" in the form of no-cd cracks to games I already own (no I don't give the CD's away, I just hate switching them)

so if that makes me a pirate so be it, but I don't see as it counts, and as to not being able to afford it, thats why we use a Linux server...

[SysOpt]

so if that makes me a pirate so be it, but I don't see as it counts, and as to not being able to afford it, thats why we use a Linux server...

Don't see as it counts since you can't afford it??? So should I be able to walk up to my local Gulfstream aircraft dealer and demand a $15 Million Gulfstream V jet, saying that "it's not stealing, it doesn't count because I can't afford it!"? NOT

Companies must be paid for the software they create. It isn't up to you to determine what an acceptable price is or whether or not they're "making too much money". If you want the software, pay for it. If you use it and don't pay, it may come back to bite you in the ***.

Even if it doesn't come back to bite you - it is your SOCIAL OBLIGATION. If you don't want to work for the rest of your life for free, and you don't want people to get away with theft of your property, uphold the law. If you can't afford the software, then you can't have it. There are a lot of things I want but can't have. I wouldn't steal just because it's easy, I would choose not to steal because it is wrong.

-Scott

[This message has been edited by SysOpt (edited 04-09-2001).]

[krusty the klown]

I have to disagree with the comment that MS Office would cost $70... for firstly the reason (previously stated) that the software companies would just be a lot richer and secondly, when the software companies quote figures like that, they are assuming that the number pirated would have been sold had they not have been pirated.

How stupid! Do they really think that someone who downloads MS Office from a warez site, or borrows the disk off a m8 would have said "OK if you won't lend me the disk, I'll go and spend $300+ in the shop"? That particular illegal copy would not have been a lost sale to MS, that person borrowing the CD is not causing MS to lose out on a $300 sale... because if they could not get an illegal copy of Office, they would have resorted to open source, or something like Star Office.

Fake copies of software sold as legit @ the full price of legit software do deprive the software company of that sale - a user has every intention of paying for legit software and is unwittingly gives the cost of the software to people that have made the copy for a few $.

It's not exactly the same principle... but has a lot of similarities to AMD/Intel strongly objecting to the overclocking, rebadging and resale of their products vs. private overclocking. In the first instance, their product is being misrepresented and they are losing out on the sale of a fast, expensive CPU. In the second instance, it's your CPU and if you fry it, tough and besides, why overclock? To get more performance for nothing. If I take a P3 700 and overclock it to 933, has Intel lost on the sale of a P3 933?? No, because I wouldn't have spent the extra money in the first place!

[Hellmund]

I think Scott touched on a good point with upholding the law.
What if everyone started ignoring the law. How would you like if someone stole your computer. Are you saying that if they couldn't afford a computer then it was alright for them to steal yours? I could really use Corel Linux for uni but you know what?, it's $180 here and I can't afford to spend that much on one software package, so you know what I do? put aside $20-$50 each fortnight and soon I'll buy it.Oh and maybe you should ask one of the older members how much they use to pay for games before piracy became so prominent.I'll tell u know it wasn't the $49.95 you see new games for on EB right now. Maybe you ought to re-evaluate where you coming from?
[color=ff0000]Hellmund./color]

[wyvrn]

I wouldn't steal just because it's easy, I would choose not to steal because it is wrong.

I agree. Why is it that software pirates cannot face the fact that they are breaking the law? And do not try to use the Robin Hood principle with me. It is not justifiable to rob from the rich and give to the poor. The same people would use the same rationale to steal cars if they could. "Well Joe Blo who owns that Porsche makes more than me, so it is ok to steal from him because he can afford another one..."

You do not have a fundamental right to Adobe Photoshop. If you cannot afford it, then you probably do not use it for your profession, do not need it, and can find a suitable alternative that is either free or within your budget to do what you need it to do. You are pirating because it is easy, and yes, the chances of being caught are low. But that does not make it morally right or even lawful.

Go ahead and try to convince me otherwise if you think you have a legitimate reason.

[Savant]

I was referring to using cracks to not use the CD's for stuff I DID buy as not counting, and in response to the not being able to afford stuff bit, that thats why we use a linux server, microsoft junk is too expensive for us, but still we don't pirate it, they lose our business altogether

You just slightly misinterpreted what I said is all http://www.sysopt.com/forum/wink.gif

[This message has been edited by Savant (edited 04-10-2001).]

[krusty the klown]

Oh and maybe you should ask one of the older members how much they use to pay for games before piracy became so prominent.I'll tell u know it wasn't the $49.95 you see new games for on EB right now

PSX games WERE that price BEFORE piracy... when they first came out, there were no pirate copies available.

And what of cartridge games? No pirate copies seen at car boot sales there... are they $20? Certainly not where I come from!

[This message has been edited by krusty the klown (edited 04-10-2001).]

[Hellmund]

PSX is pretty recent actually Krusty, I was referring more to something like the OLD apples,286's and on.Also the reason cartridges on things like the N64 are so high is because everyone was buying Play Stations and getting chips. Sony made their money selling the playstation units not the games.Nintendo had to make money so they raised the price, are you going to argue that the N64 wasn't a superior product to the play station.Yet I bet Sony did sell a hell of a lot more units then Nintendo did.
<FONT COLOR="ffff00">Hellmund</FONT c>

[krusty the klown]

Err... no, I ain't going to argue that the 32 bit console is better than the 64 bit http://www.sysopt.com/forum/biggrin.gif

I'm not sure about the marketing strategy of the PSX in other countries, but in the UK, Sony practically started giving the console away. They initially retailed at around £300 (~$430). Then they were ~ £200, then the price was dropped to under £100 including one controller. IMHO, they were not making much money on that. I reckon they figured on increasing the ownership of the consoles so more games and peripherals would sell. A lot of peeps owning consoles = a lot of demand for games & peripherals, whereas if a small number of consoles are owned, your profits level off as the current owners have enough peripherals and are only buying a relatively small number of games. Decent PSX games were and still are around the £30-£40 mark here. This has not changed in the ?6 years that the PSX has been out. PS2 games (as yet uncopyable) are retailing at £50!!!

I remember buying Turrican for a Commodore 64. Excellent game - absolutely massive! Cost £10 (~$14.50) 12 years ago. ****, that was a lot of money then to me!!

[SoopaStar]

Its similiar because the publisher does not make a profit whatsoever and loses a potential profit, that potential profit in the long run could help fund for the next cool sequel and or upgrade!
Its not similar. Its the same idea as buying a used card. If I buy a 2001 Toyota Celica GS-T from my buddy becuase he doesn't want it anymore instead of buying it from the dealer...that's not stealing.
Also, if you know anything about econmics, reselling an item also doesn't count towards the nations GDP because the physical unit was already paid for once, therefore it has been 'counted'.

Paul

[Kuasimodem]

I have 3 computers running Win98se. I got a copy of a clean install disk from a friend. And then went out and purchased online 3 licenses.

I have freeware, and shareware on my puter, along with licensed full versions. Used to kidNapster music, but I deleted those music files and didn't reinstall kidNapster when I built this machine.

[BUMTY]

Hey Guys i just wonder if old (araaraara)
is a snoop of some kind, and is just trying to get trusting people to admit to stealing software - and then POW a knock on the door from those jolly nice fellows in blue (policemen) - or (trading standards) as it would be in the UK.

NO of course not no one could be that sneaky
could they - hehe. any way i have not got any pirated gear at all HONEST

[mondayz]

I'll wager MS claims a huge tax write off due to losses from pirating.
Now if I am not a pirate, then they are profiting illegally at my expense.
So is it wrong to steal from a pirate when he has stolen from you first?

[This message has been edited by mondayz (edited 04-14-2001).]

[duffer101]

Well if all you pirates think its ok, how about you post your credit card numbers, calling card numbers and bank account numbers. I don't have enough money and I'll only take a little.

[whiskieman]

no! i am not a pirate!"!!! http://www.sysopt.com/forum/frown.gif

but i use winXP beta 2 and Office XP,, http://www.sysopt.com/forum/smile.gif

[surrealchereal]

I think the software companies deserve to get a fair price for the software they produce, but it doesn't look like a little piracy has hurt Microsoft too badly.
Look at MS Office for example. It has become the standard that virtually everyone uses. Would it be nearly as popular if every person paid the full $300 price tag for every computer they installed it on??

ABSOLUTELY RIGHT!! You have hit it!
Instead of how much is this hurting MS, How much has Piracy HELPED MICROSOFT PROFIT.
I know my office would never have gone with MS Office if it wasn't the standard today for documents. Think about it, how often do you ever get a document in the email that isn't *.doc? The company I work for actually tried to instal Word Perfect as our word processing software, what a joke, we went nuts unable to open 98% of the correspondence we received.

I think it's about time some of the software Gates worked so hard on making the industry standard by "GIVING" it away to the OEM market, insuring a captive audience, should become public domain.

[This message has been edited by surrealchereal (edited 04-14-2001).]

[surrealchereal]

You know the other thing I am surprised no one has mentioned is a software return policy. You Try It, You Hate It, You Loose.
We seem to have some very rigid opinions on the software 10 commandments that are developing.
But we can't leave this one out
If thou shall purchase software misrepresented or incompatible with the buyers expectations. Thu shall stuff it. (cause we got our money)IP





[This message has been edited by surrealchereal (edited 04-14-2001).]

[Cygnus-X1]

Cars are not akin to software!
I can't "burn" a copy of my vehicle or some other commodity then sell the other one!
http://www.sysopt.com/forum/smile.gif

[Deanna_L]

I do NOT like pirating software due to the repercusions it could have on the software development in the future. I have worked with some software that was extremely hard to configure, only because the manufacturer was afraid it would be copied and pirated. This software usually defeated it's own purpose by their safeguards. One program used a single software key, meaning it could only be installed on a single computer. It would be impossible to copy the key, or to install the software without the key. And...if you accidently lost the software key, such as your computer crashes and you loose it before you transfer it back...then all you can do is call the manufacturer and wait for them to send an authorized key to you. I have had to configure and use this type of software...and I do not want that to be the fate of others in the future. By being responsible, and not pirating software, I feel we are making it a lot easier on all of us.

[This message has been edited by Deanna_L (edited 04-17-2001).]

[socalgal]

So should I be able to walk up to my local Gulfstream aircraft dealer and demand a $15 Million Gulfstream V jet...

Scott, if you do, you'd better pick me up at VNY! http://www.sysopt.com/forum/wink.gif

[araaraara]

Hey Guys i just wonder if old (araaraara)
is a snoop of some kind, and is just trying to get trusting people to admit to stealing software - and then POW a knock on the door from those jolly nice fellows in blue (policemen) - or (trading standards) as it would be in the UK.

How did you know!


I think that consumers should be allowed to say how much they are willing to pay for a piece of software. After all, they're the ones paying for it.
Not everything on my computers are "stolen". I paid for win98se, office 97, and some games.

[foopex]

as far as theft of intellectual property, right or wrong is trivial. the fact is, the owners of most of that material do not want you to use it without paying for it. Their reasoning matters not, because they are backed by federal law. ultimately, when applied to computer software at least, this theft goes unnoticed. it is simply a 'don't ask, don't tell' situation.

[Ed_S]

Araaraara, I think you've hit on the best way to control the price of software, or ANY product, really!

consumers should be allowed to say how much they are willing to pay for a piece of software

We already do!
If it just rots on the shelf, what do they do? Lower the price until it sells!

If you don't like the price DON'T BUY IT!! And encourage others to do likewise!

Why do you think they drop the price on the stuff in the "dump bins"? Because there's a new version? Because they're feeling kindhearted? H#LL NO!!
It's because it quit selling at $35, so it went on sale for $25. Still didn't go, so they try $12..$8..$5..$2...Two for $5...
Until they're all gone!

NEVER, EVER buy the stuff until it's dropped to a reasonable figure!! But don't steal it via piracy!!

If you really feel a game is worth $20, WHY would you pay $50????
I ask kids that question & they look at me like I'm stupid - "Well, that's the price!! Of course!!"
Don't they teach simple economics anymore?? Ever heard of "supply and demand" principles??

It's the same as it's always been on all products. They charge the maximum people are willing to pay. Controlling it is sooo simple if we ALL just say NO!!

Ed

[This message has been edited by Ed_S (edited 04-15-2001).]

[surrealchereal]

http://www.sysopt.com/forum/smile.gif Cars are not akin to software!
I can't "burn" a copy of my vehicle or some other commodity then sell the other one! http://www.sysopt.com/forum/smile.gif
Does that mean you disagree with every thing I said, ? http://www.sysopt.com/forum/wink.gif




[This message has been edited by surrealchereal (edited 04-16-2001).]

[BUMTY]

hi there araaraara
i think you are perfectly correct in saying the consumer should decide the price of software,

The UK is the RIP OFF capital of the world
and we get screwed but good, a prime example is cars - we are forced to pay up to 50% more for cars than in the rest of Europe, and that includes cars that are made in the UK. its the same with software and every other item over here - FOOD, CLOTHING, PETROL, every thing. which is ok for buisness's but just listen to buisness's scream fowl when the down troden consumer hits back ie PIRATING

in the old Days before RABID GREED (CAPITALISM) Took over, the profit margines in the UK used to be 33% but now profits of 5000% are not unheard of. PURE GREED

So i reckon that pirates are a modern day Robin Hood ( take from the rich and give to the poor ).

There are at least two sides to every story, and thankfully this forum allows us all,to publisize all sides of this story. And may i say well done (SNOOP OR NOT) YOU CERTAINLY STARTED OF A VERY INTERESTING DISCUSSION.

[BUMTY]

sorry to post again so soon but i just spotted this little peace which is more than relevant to this topic posted by CADDMANNQ and written more eloquantly than i could hope to do.

take a look at this http://www.sysopt.com/forum/Forum17/HTML/003019.html its the best advertizement for PIRATING i ever did see.
WELL SAID MR CADDMANNQ SIR

My comments are made with the utmost respect for all other opinions.
BUMTY

[welsh wizard]

I may like to have run unlicenced copies but don't risk it, so all my systems are 100% legal.
Why you may ask.
As a registered OEM and owner of a LTD computer company I am just the sort MS would target for there check ups and monitoring, so it just ain't worth the risk of being caught and then having damaging press about my company.

Also I don't handle Mac's in my company, so I don't fly the Scull and Crossbones.

Though I am quiet happy to use others for ideas which are adapted, not piracy, just keeping up with the Biz.

WW

[This message has been edited by welsh wizard (edited 04-17-2001).]